Clutch cheaters

Status
Not open for further replies.
These people could be electronic experts and have experience with adjusting components in game consoles peripherals just to get a better reaction while driving. How hard is it to repace a component if you are n expert.
The Japanese are the worlds best at electronics, what and who is to say that they can't improve a peripheral.
 
TrievelA7X
Does a factory Z06 have this? Ford Focus St? RX-7? I'm not even sure what your point is by saying you've seen "road cars" with modified transmissions...Of course it can be done.

Yes, when a computer/electric motor do it for you, that's where the title "automatic" is usually placed. Except by those who want to make it sound more skillful. Understand, pulling a shifter with your hand, that is connected via direct gear linkage, that moves the gears around, is much different than pulling a paddle to tell the computer to shift for you.
Click to expand...
I feel you've taken what I said slightly out of context, you were talking about how only a few cars in the game have automatic clutches, and out of all the cars in the game only a few would be faster with an automatic than a manual, implying that a manual clutch should be faster.

"For ALL the rest of them, being able to shift with a clutch, rather than manually shifting an automatic, is faster.
Not to mention drivetrain loss."

My point was I dont think that its all that important, because I view games as "racing" games, not "street driving" game. In racing, even if you are driving a car that was once a fully manual road car, its not a massive modification to make it shift far faster than you could using a clutch. Hence, I think its fine to have clutchless shifters in game which can shift just as fast if not faster than your manual can, on any car, not just the the ones that come with paddles in real life.

The car would be less stable when shifting? are you talking about power shifting mid-corner? Or...? Last I checked, your gear should be selected before you enter the corner, and you shouldn't have to shift before you're out of the corner. So you're saying that the car is less stable in a straight line when shifting using a clutch? Watch out for that wall bud, it's time to shift.:scared:
Click to expand...

The car is less stable when shifting, if the clutch is on/off instead of gradual, it is even less stable again. This is because when the clutch reconnects the engine to the transmission, they are most likely going a different speed. This gives a sudden change in the speed of the rear wheels, hence instability. My previous post didn't touch on where that instability can occur. But since you asked :P If you are heavy under brakes and downshift without heel-toeing, or sometimes your foot slips and you miss a heel-toe, some cars will happily break loose on the rear wheels. Likewise, coming out of a corner you'll often want to upshift while still not in a perfectly straight line, if you dont match the revs properly and release the clutch too quickly, you can lose the rear of the car. In GTR with some of the high powered cars (my favourite example is the 427 Shelby Cobra) often you have to be gentle on the clutch to keep the car going where you want it to go.
 
This question may sound stupid, but...

Is it possible to assign the clutch to the paddles at the same time, within the game? Thus meaning that when you change gear weather it be up or down you are hitting the clutch and gears at the precise righ time. I am just wondering this as I reckon these guys have probably found some freaky configuration in the games button assignments that means the game is not reading the clutch pedal, thus allowing them to keep their foot flat on the gas.

I will give this a try later, as I need to setup the playseat and G25 to try.


another question would have to be are they running spec 3? Is it possible to still play the game if it is not upgraded to the latest spec? If they are running an earlier spec, wouldn't this mean they are able to flatshift as previous specs aloud it?

Just google their usernames and you will see they are quite popular worldwide, so they are up to something fishy.

Grim
 
Last edited:
Pressing the clutch has no effect in GT5p. Right?

Because I pressed clucth while shifting but has no effect.
 
Tomaz
Pressing the clutch has no effect in GT5p. Right?

Because I pressed clucth while shifting but has no effect.
Click to expand...

You need to engage the clutch, by pressing triangle. Best way to check it is engaged is to stop on the track then press the triangle button (The equivalent button on the G25 shifter) and then if you watch your gear indicator it will change to N (for Neutral). You then have the clutch activated, and can proceed to use the clutch in the correct manner to change gear.

Grim.
 
The Grim Reaper
another question would have to be are they running spec 3? Is it possible to still play the game if it is not upgraded to the latest spec? If they are running an earlier spec, wouldn't this mean they are able to flatshift as previous specs aloud it?
Click to expand...

i dont think thats possible because if he's doing online times.. he need to be updated to new version of prologue.. well i think so... :P
 
The Grim Reaper
You need to engage the clutch, by pressing triangle. Best way to check it is engaged is to stop on the track then press the triangle button (The equivalent button on the G25 shifter) and then if you watch your gear indicator it will change to N (for Neutral). You then have the clutch activated, and can proceed to use the clutch in the correct manner to change gear.

Grim.
Click to expand...

Oh, I didn't know that. TNX!
 
The Grim Reaper
Is it possible to assign the clutch to the paddles at the same time, within the game? Thus meaning that when you change gear weather it be up or down you are hitting the clutch and gears at the precise righ time. I am just wondering this as I reckon these guys have probably found some freaky configuration in the games button assignments that means the game is not reading the clutch pedal, thus allowing them to keep their foot flat on the gas.
Click to expand...
You should be able to keep your foot flat on the gas if the clutch system works properly.

The car is less stable when shifting, if the clutch is on/off instead of gradual, it is even less stable again. This is because when the clutch reconnects the engine to the transmission, they are most likely going a different speed. This gives a sudden change in the speed of the rear wheels, hence instability. My previous post didn't touch on where that instability can occur. But since you asked If you are heavy under brakes and downshift without heel-toeing, or sometimes your foot slips and you miss a heel-toe, some cars will happily break loose on the rear wheels. Likewise, coming out of a corner you'll often want to upshift while still not in a perfectly straight line, if you dont match the revs properly and release the clutch too quickly, you can lose the rear of the car. In GTR with some of the high powered cars (my favourite example is the 427 Shelby Cobra) often you have to be gentle on the clutch to keep the car going where you want it to go.
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly sure how the wheels would "break loose". It's been my experience that downshifting hard slows a car down hard, which would lead me to believe they would lock up, if anything.
Secondly, anyone power-shifting while exiting a corner (still turning) Is asking for a wall greeting. I don't know exactly how the GT5P clutches work, but I know just with a controller you can't even go full throttle while exiting a corner without fishtailing excessively, unless you have some extra serious rubber and low power.
Just letting the clutch fly on light throttle would only cause a slight jerk, it wouldn't send you spinning like a top. (IRL)
 
so... did anybody already find out exactly how they do it?

I added UFUK to my friends list and he is online sometimes but so far hasnt replied to my message.

Chris
 
Yeah, I noticed this along time ago, the gear changes sound wrong, there is no way you can change gears with a G25 and get the sound they get, there must be some sort of device linking the gear shift to the clutch, pretty lame if you ask me.

To everyone who says they are not cheating and are just "good", watch their replays, and pay close attention to the sound of the shifts, they are all identical, and instant, it almost sounds like double clutching, maybe I'll take a video and slow it down.

OK, didn't need to slow it down, it's not the F430 but the gear changes are identical, I have also seen a different type of gear change that looks equally suspect, but this one looks like the quickest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x12vDRILlI
 
Last edited:
TrievelA7X
I'm not exactly sure how the wheels would "break loose". It's been my experience that downshifting hard slows a car down hard, which would lead me to believe they would lock up, if anything.
Secondly, anyone power-shifting while exiting a corner (still turning) Is asking for a wall greeting. I don't know exactly how the GT5P clutches work, but I know just with a controller you can't even go full throttle while exiting a corner without fishtailing excessively, unless you have some extra serious rubber and low power.
Just letting the clutch fly on light throttle would only cause a slight jerk, it wouldn't send you spinning like a top. (IRL)
Click to expand...

Break loose = wheels sliding, lock up = wheel sliding also ;)

There are plenty of times you have to change gears while still cornering. I was watching some DTM today and there was at least 2 corners on the track the drivers had to upshift while not entirely straight or during some sort of transient. They wouldn't have the throttle flat out, but they were still accelerating fast enough to require changing gears whilst still powering out of the corner. When changing gears if you dont match the revs well, the car will jerk, if the car is already at the limit of traction, that jerk can easily cause the rear end to break loose.

Try playing GTR with a wheel that has a clutch. In the game, try playing with both automatic clutch and manual clutch. Using the auto clutch, the game automatically rev matches when you change gears, its far easier to drive the car on its limit, whether it be braking at the limit or cornering at the limit. LFS is similar, but I can't remember off the top of my head how you set up the clutch in that game.

I know its realistic because I've seen people driving our FSAE lose the car while trying to downshift. :P
 
WolfRacer543
Break loose = wheels sliding, lock up = wheel sliding also ;)

There are plenty of times you have to change gears while still cornering. I was watching some DTM today and there was at least 2 corners on the track the drivers had to upshift while not entirely straight or during some sort of transient. They wouldn't have the throttle flat out, but they were still accelerating fast enough to require changing gears whilst still powering out of the corner. When changing gears if you dont match the revs well, the car will jerk, if the car is already at the limit of traction, that jerk can easily cause the rear end to break loose.

Try playing GTR with a wheel that has a clutch. In the game, try playing with both automatic clutch and manual clutch. Using the auto clutch, the game automatically rev matches when you change gears, its far easier to drive the car on its limit, whether it be braking at the limit or cornering at the limit. LFS is similar, but I can't remember off the top of my head how you set up the clutch in that game.

I know its realistic because I've seen people driving our FSAE lose the car while trying to downshift. :P
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I've never seen a real car lose it because of a downshift. Maybe I haven't watched enough lower-level racing for that, I dunno.
Either way, there should be a benefit from a clutch in GT, and cars with clutches should shift faster than they do in the game, or at least have that ability, and if this "cheating" is what I think it is, it is simply cars being driven the way they could be, rather than the GT rev-matching, ultra careful slow shifting PD has programmed for every single GT game in the past.
 
TrievelA7X
On the contrary, I've never seen a real car lose it because of a downshift. Maybe I haven't watched enough lower-level racing for that, I dunno.
Either way, there should be a benefit from a clutch in GT, and cars with clutches should shift faster than they do in the game, or at least have that ability, and if this "cheating" is what I think it is, it is simply cars being driven the way they could be, rather than the GT rev-matching, ultra careful slow shifting PD has programmed for every single GT game in the past.
Click to expand...

The people I mention spinning out in our FSAE car are just regular people who we let drive the car (usually sponsors who give us lots of money to build the car or team members who aren't skilled enough to actually drive it in competition). At a professional level you shouldn't see it happening, but that doesn't mean changing gears with a manual clutch doesn't make the car unstable (which it does by virtue of the fact the load on the wheels from the engine is rapidly changing). Its why drivers heel-toe when downshifting, to reduce the instability caused by changing gears. ;)

I dont think a manual clutch should be able to change gears faster than an auto because I dont think its realistic in the context of a racing game. If you use a manual clutch its because YOU want to, not because its better.
 
WolfRacer543
The people I mention spinning out in our FSAE car are just regular people who we let drive the car (usually sponsors who give us lots of money to build the car or team members who aren't skilled enough to actually drive it in competition). At a professional level you shouldn't see it happening, but that doesn't mean changing gears with a manual clutch doesn't make the car unstable (which it does by virtue of the fact the load on the wheels from the engine is rapidly changing). Its why drivers heel-toe when downshifting, to reduce the instability caused by changing gears. ;)

I dont think a manual clutch should be able to change gears faster than an auto because I dont think its realistic in the context of a racing game. If you use a manual clutch its because YOU want to, not because its better.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that, after all, the ability to flat shift was removed after the GT Academy competition where the top times were mostly from people flat shifting, not fair on the non wheel users, and even the non G25 wheel users, we need a level playing field for EVERYONE, no matter what hardware you use.
 
WolfRacer543
The people I mention spinning out in our FSAE car are just regular people who we let drive the car (usually sponsors who give us lots of money to build the car or team members who aren't skilled enough to actually drive it in competition). At a professional level you shouldn't see it happening, but that doesn't mean changing gears with a manual clutch doesn't make the car unstable (which it does by virtue of the fact the load on the wheels from the engine is rapidly changing). Its why drivers heel-toe when downshifting, to reduce the instability caused by changing gears. ;)

I dont think a manual clutch should be able to change gears faster than an auto because I dont think its realistic in the context of a racing game. If you use a manual clutch its because YOU want to, not because its better.
Click to expand...
But you're basing this on the prmise that gearbox's can be modified to not have manual clutches, with 6-gate shifters. Fact is, most organized racing leagues with vehicles even closely resembling stock cars do not allow this. If they did, you wouldn't see Corvettes in Le Mans using it, would you?

I'd agree with that, after all, the ability to flat shift was removed after the GT Academy competition where the top times were mostly from people flat shifting, not fair on the non wheel users, and even the non G25 wheel users, we need a level playing field for EVERYONE, no matter what hardware you use.
Click to expand...
This is why I say the controllers should have a "clutch" button. No, it would not be as good as a clutch pedal, nor is a d-pad r analog stick as good as a wheel.
By your argument, steering wheels should not be allowed because some people only have handheld's. That is, to achive
a level playing field for EVERYONE, no matter what hardware you use.
Click to expand...
 
TrievelA7X
But you're basing this on the prmise that gearbox's can be modified to not have manual clutches, with 6-gate shifters. Fact is, most organized racing leagues with vehicles even closely resembling stock cars do not allow this. If they did, you wouldn't see Corvettes in Le Mans using it, would you?

This is why I say the controllers should have a "clutch" button. No, it would not be as good as a clutch pedal, nor is a d-pad r analog stick as good as a wheel.
By your argument, steering wheels should not be allowed because some people only have handheld's. That is, to achive
Click to expand...

It's a matter of opinion whether a wheel offers any advantage in terms of times, I'm certain one of the guy's in the to 20 of GT Academy used a pad.

But you certainly shouldn't be allowed to use something that enables a different mechanic (use of clutch) to go faster.

The wheel gives you better immersion, but I'm not any faster with the wheel than I was with the pad, but I enjoy it a hell of a lot more.
 
TrievelA7X
But you're basing this on the prmise that gearbox's can be modified to not have manual clutches, with 6-gate shifters. Fact is, most organized racing leagues with vehicles even closely resembling stock cars do not allow this. If they did, you wouldn't see Corvettes in Le Mans using it, would you?
Click to expand...

Well to be honest, I'm talking about any form of automatic shifting. Even the auto transmission in my Dad's 40 year old V8 aussie muscle car... I reckon I'd struggle to change gears as fast as it does when its accelerating. There are many other advantages that manual gives, fast shifting is not one of them.

But what we're talking about isn't automatic trans vs manual trans. We're talking auto clutch as simulated by a game vs manual clutch as used on a G25 wheel. In that context (which is why above I said "in the context of a racing game") I dont think the manual clutch should shift any faster than the auto clutch.

This is why I say the controllers should have a "clutch" button. No, it would not be as good as a clutch pedal, nor is a d-pad r analog stick as good as a wheel.
By your argument, steering wheels should not be allowed because some people only have handheld's. That is, to achive
Click to expand...

I'm personally not a fan of the idea of a clutch button. I've played PC sims that have the option of a clutch button and I never ever use them. I'm not saying anything remotely in line with steering wheels not being allowed to have a level playing field, I'm saying they should be balanced. When using a controller you should have just enough speed sensitive steering to keep up with the wheel drivers, but not so much that its actually slower with a wheel, and the auto clutch should be fast enough to not be at a disadvantage to anyone using a manual clutch on a wheel.
 
TrievelA7X
This is why I say the controllers should have a "clutch" button. No, it would not be as good as a clutch pedal, nor is a d-pad r analog stick as good as a wheel.
By your argument, steering wheels should not be allowed because some people only have handheld's. That is, to achive
Click to expand...

Exactlly, The steering wheel is not really an advantage simply because the steering function can be a assigned to the controller. Might not be the greatest setup but it still can be assigned to it. The clutch cannot be assigned thus makes it an advantage. By PD doing this...it technoloy makes the sky the limit now. If the people getting top times are using a mod of some sort, big deal becauce PD allowed a clutch mod so to speak. Hope a clutch function is added to all hardware in GT5.
 
in other words, everyone who has been complaining in this thread is a big crybaby..?

BooHoo-Big_baby.jpg
 
mr_VOLCANO
So many in this thread who dont understand the topic.. Quick look at first page would help 👍
Click to expand...

Why? it goes off topic because it just doesn't focus on "the cheaters" rather than "the clutch". I think the majority understand this thread. Maybe many lurking here hope to see an exact step by step method on how they ran those laps....and really... why?? I don't want to know and don't want anyone else to know. Do you?
 
rmk700
Maybe many lurking here hope to see an exact step by step method on how they ran those laps....and really... why?? I don't want to know and don't want anyone else to know. Do you?
Click to expand...

Not really... Dont have clutch and if i fight for 1. Place in a TT then its not a popular combo :lol: I drive for fun online and aim for car control rather then speed.
 
z06fun
Check back to post #109, I explained what they are doing. I was able to replicate the same type of shift just messing around with my G25.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3443373&postcount=109
Click to expand...

I finally figured out what is really happening with the G25 in H pattern shift mode. The clutch can be activated or deactivated by pressing the triangle button alternately.

So when activated the clutch is fully functional when the clutch is depressed actually disengages the transmission that you can rev the engine in whatever gear you are in and it will not move or power the car forward or backward in reverse. Press the triangle button again and the clutch is disabled but you are still in the H pattern of shifting. This way it is like driving a stickshift without ever needing to use the clutch just the gas and brake is needed. It only uses the clutch when at full stop and pressing on the brake that the transmission is disengage and clutch is activated.

With that in mind the advantage comes in when using the stickshift H pattern without the need to ever using the clutch while racing. You are able to leftfoot brake while coming into a turn and downshifting at the same time, with the option of skiping gears. Let say from 4th to 2nd instead of going through all the gears like the paddle shifter or sequentail shifters need to.

Now here is where the games glitch is if you downshift too early, from 4th to 2nd or whatever gear and even missing a gear. Let's say, in this case, from 4th to 3rd and missed 3rd by going into 1st. The engine won't lockup the tires or transmission or even blow the engine. It will just hit the revlimiter and still slow the car down into the turn without spinning it out or locking the drive wheels to make the car unstable.

So from my point of view the advantage is by using this option you can go deeper into the turn with late braking. If you come in too fast skip a few gears down and from there exiting the turn you can power shift up without letting go of the gas/accelarator and still have your leftfoot on the brake to trim any understeer from too much gas or speed by transffering weight to the front wheels.

So the next question is, is this cheating? Feel free to argue amongst yourselves, because for me it's an advantage anyone is free to use if they want and is not banned in GT. Until PD fixes this flaw, just like in any racing sport it's not illegal until the (officials) meaning PD say it is. People, drivers, teams will always use advantages to win in racing. If they find a way around the rules to get an advantage then it is not cheating it's an advantage, maybe an unfair one but in any case an advantage.
 
Radracing
I finally figured out what is really happening with the G25 in H pattern shift mode. The clutch can be activated or deactivated by pressing the triangle button alternately.

So when activated the clutch is fully functional when the clutch is depressed actually disengages the transmission that you can rev the engine in whatever gear you are in and it will not move or power the car forward or backward in reverse. Press the triangle button again and the clutch is disabled but you are still in the H pattern of shifting. This way it is like driving a stickshift without ever needing to use the clutch just the gas and brake is needed. It only uses the clutch when at full stop and pressing on the brake that the transmission is disengage and clutch is activated.

With that in mind the advantage comes in when using the stickshift H pattern without the need to ever using the clutch while racing. You are able to leftfoot brake while coming into a turn and downshifting at the same time, with the option of skiping gears. Let say from 4th to 2nd instead of going through all the gears like the paddle shifter or sequentail shifters need to.

Now here is where the games glitch is if you downshift too early, from 4th to 2nd or whatever gear and even missing a gear. Let's say, in this case, from 4th to 3rd and missed 3rd by going into 1st. The engine won't lockup the tires or transmission or even blow the engine. It will just hit the revlimiter and still slow the car down into the turn without spinning it out or locking the drive wheels to make the car unstable.

So from my point of view the advantage is by using this option you can go deeper into the turn with late braking. If you come in too fast skip a few gears down and from there exiting the turn you can power shift up without letting go of the gas/accelarator and still have your leftfoot on the brake to trim any understeer from too much gas or speed by transffering weight to the front wheels.

So the next question is, is this cheating? Feel free to argue amongst yourselves, because for me it's an advantage anyone is free to use if they want and is not banned in GT. Until PD fixes this flaw, just like in any racing sport it's not illegal until the (officials) meaning PD say it is. People, drivers, teams will always use advantages to win in racing. If they find a way around the rules to get an advantage then it is not cheating it's an advantage, maybe an unfair one but in any case an advantage.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point, it's the upshifts that are the problem.

Have a look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x12vDRILlI
 
thanks for making the video Luke.. ill post on the 1st page to help people understand what is it 👍
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

zedextreme8177
How the clutch issue should be solved!
Replies
10
Views
1K
MSTER232
MSTER232
OK8
Comfort Hard hotlaps! Yellowbird, Mazda 787B, Mclaren F1 and others
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
scarcry
scarcry
GT_Alex74
  • Locked
Grip bug thread
18 19 20
Replies
570
Views
66K
RA1784
RA1784
Z
Weather/dynamic time of day has caused jagged shadows. Should it have been left out?
3 4 5
Replies
143
Views
18K
sesselpupser
sesselpupser
S
My bad driving skills or is it my controller ?
Replies
8
Views
823
genius73
G

Latest Posts

Back