Cockpit view - IMHO overated and not so useful...
- Thread starter Bluez_Freak
- 637 comments
- 54,626 views
- 19
I never use cockpit cam unless I am watching a replay or B-Spec. I stick exclusively to roof cam which is awesome because not only can you see down the road better with very little vision obstruction but it makes it so you barely notice you are driving a standard car vs a premium (and some of my fav cars are standards).
- 244
- 72
- Valander
Sure, I'll throw more gas on the fire... 
Personally, I prefer cockpit cam. I think it looks cooler (which is one of the reasons I play, for eye candy), but I also find I'm much better at gauging how close I am to other cars in tight areas. With standard cars I'm forced into bumper cam, and I often misjudge on braking into tight turns and rear end cars in front of me. For me, having the "proper" bits of car on the screen helps me not do that as much.
Personally, I prefer cockpit cam. I think it looks cooler (which is one of the reasons I play, for eye candy), but I also find I'm much better at gauging how close I am to other cars in tight areas. With standard cars I'm forced into bumper cam, and I often misjudge on braking into tight turns and rear end cars in front of me. For me, having the "proper" bits of car on the screen helps me not do that as much.
- 3,232
- Wales
And car interiors block the view of anything below it, real cars show this.
- 27
- johan12345678
Just started to appreciate the cockpit view today actually. When trying to have fun with a new car that I bought for me and not some stupid event, the bumper cam just spoils it imo, it becomes an obsession about going as fast as possible.
However, if the task is to have less fun and go as fast as I can then it's all bumper cam for me.
However, if the task is to have less fun and go as fast as I can then it's all bumper cam for me.
- 926
- machschnel
I like it and i you wanted a legit view form inside the car you could buy those video glasses things
- 1,238
- RocketPunch1221
- RRoD? no thanks.
So, as you have pointed out, cockpit view is realistic. Answer me this then. Is that your hand/arm in the picture below?
No, but it will be many many many many many times more realistic than having my eyeballs surgically grafted to the bumper.
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
I wonder if people who complain about the wheel, arms, apillar etc ever tried cocpit view longer then 5 mins
With time you dont even notice them like in real life you dont notice the wheel, your arms, or apillar you just look out the window though the obstructions are visible to your eyes
With time you dont even notice them like in real life you dont notice the wheel, your arms, or apillar you just look out the window though the obstructions are visible to your eyes
- 926
- machschnel
Let me make this clear, there is not one view in Gran Turismo that is even remotely "realistic".
- 926
- machschnel
It's not the point though. Having those things on screen isn't a distraction - it's a fallacy. Our hands can't be on screen AND on our steering wheel a meter away. In a FPS it doesn't matter that I see my hand on the gun. In a car game though, where realism is important, a view without half my body within the TV would be nice.
Cockpit view is NOT REALISTIC
- 1,300
- CZE
- novcze
Again, what you call bumper view is basically front window view or bonnet view (without visible bonnet). The viewpoint is in height of the driver eyes and that's really important.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147718&page=6#post4381417
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
So you want to remove the driver and wheel from ingame? Lots of PC sims allow that but IMO it looks more silly/bizarre with no wheel. I dont want to remove an Enzo's wheel (with its useful rev lights) and pretend my plastic DFGT with its large GT logo is the wheel
Again why are you noticing the arms or wheel? You should be looking outside the windshield.
And I assume you believe bumper cam is the most realistic view possible?
- 926
- machschnel
You would assume wrong - no view in Gran Turismo is realistic. What I'm after is a true bonnet cam. What I mean by that is that the view would be shifted (not dead center) in regards to a car's drive side. Second, it would be slightly further back then the current hood cam.
At best, a view would depict the TV screen itself a the windscreen.
None of the views in any racing game/sim are realistic - not even entirely with triple screen setups for various PC sims with the virtual steering wheel and arms turned off.
Personally though I'm very much among those who prefer the cockpit view. While the "bumper cam" in GT5 is located more or less where your eyes also are in cockpit view, I feel like I'm cheating since the natural visual obstructions in the car interior - above, below and to the sides - aren't present.
While cockpit view is certainly not a perfect solution either - in this case it becomes too restrictive because of the limited field of view - to me it still feels like the "most right" (or least wrong
) way to play a racing sim.
Exactly, no matter which camera I use I focus on the road ahead of me, not the neatly modeled car interior - but the cockpit view, present in my peripheral vision, does do enough for the immersion factor, and provides the aforementioned approximation to natural view obstructions, that it is without a doubt the best and most "realistic" choice in my opinion.
Personally though I'm very much among those who prefer the cockpit view. While the "bumper cam" in GT5 is located more or less where your eyes also are in cockpit view, I feel like I'm cheating since the natural visual obstructions in the car interior - above, below and to the sides - aren't present.
While cockpit view is certainly not a perfect solution either - in this case it becomes too restrictive because of the limited field of view - to me it still feels like the "most right" (or least wrong
) way to play a racing sim.Exactly, no matter which camera I use I focus on the road ahead of me, not the neatly modeled car interior - but the cockpit view, present in my peripheral vision, does do enough for the immersion factor, and provides the aforementioned approximation to natural view obstructions, that it is without a doubt the best and most "realistic" choice in my opinion.
- 8,015
- GTP_Royalton
No game is realistic. No game has 100% realistic physics. Not even close. In order for true simulation you will need a full multi million dollar moving simulator that needs a football field size building to house that auto makers have in order to simulate basic things like g-forces
We do the best we can.
GT5's cockpit view is as realistic as 99.99% of us can get
Your demands are unrealistic to 99.99% of the public
- 804
- GTP_ZippyCat
Bingo. What we're discussing is a problem inherent to one-screen, photo-real simulation. To get coverage of everything a person can see in peripheral vision you have to use an extreme wide-angle lens (< 24mm), but that results in an unnatural perspective when displayed for simulation purposes on a single 2-D screen. What humans concentrate on is a much narrower field, with a completely different perspective equivalent to that of about an 85mm lens. The cockpit view in essence is trying to compromise that difference in field of view -- unsuccessfully, in my opinion, as I prefer bumper cam.
I can't fault PD for this, as Kaz and the gang are running into (and not solving) the same problem that's dogged authors of consumer-level flight-sim software for years. Take a look for example at Microsoft Flight Simulator, which has always offered cockpit view. The first thing veteran users of that software will do on installing it is to make sure to dial in a couple notches of zoom into what they're seeing out the window -- because the default perspective, though true to that of the wide-angle lenses M$ and add-on authors use to create cockpit interiors, isn't perceptually "right" when you're trying to judge critical distances on approach to landing. The extra zoom corrects that. But note that the zoom doesn't affect the display of the instrument panel, which operates in effect as a separate view and has to be up on screen pretty much as is, wide-angle, so you see all the gauges you need to use to operate the plane.
The only way pro-level sims (and well-heeled consumers) solve for this is to use multiple screens to create a wraparound perspective for the outside view, and to use practical rather than virtual instrument panels for the interior. In the flight-sim community there are actually more than a few folks who've used 5 screens, multiple CPUs and some major carpentry and electrical work worth thousands of dollars in cash or man hours to build their own cockpits. I don't think, or at least haven't seen any evidence, that it's really possible to overcome the perspective issue with a single screen. Maybe 3-D TVs will change that, but I'm dubious.
In addition to the Wikpedia article on Field of View linked above, see the one on Angle of View for more info.
- 146
- Spain
- TechnobearRacing
- TheTechnobear
@Marc
Cool post, shows good comparison of views...
Odd that you show, the standard view as equal to the first narrow view...
previously when I'd compared i thought it look like the normal view, will have to compare again.
This is also interesting though, as a few have said performance is better in standard view, something I also had thought was true... But was surprised about, as layers cost little... But if it's also using the narrower viewport this might help.
But as the above posts have said the deal is simple, with a limited amount of screen real estate, how do we want to use it? Wider view, simulating out peripheral vision, or narrower showing our 'focused' vision... Neither are 'realistic'
Of course more screens will help...and other tech, though not sure about head tracking, unless the viewport is attached to your head i.e. helmet/goggles but I guess this is a few years off yet.
Suppose all we can ask is that PD (and others) give us options, so we can choose what feels right for us.
Cool post, shows good comparison of views...
Odd that you show, the standard view as equal to the first narrow view...
previously when I'd compared i thought it look like the normal view, will have to compare again.
This is also interesting though, as a few have said performance is better in standard view, something I also had thought was true... But was surprised about, as layers cost little... But if it's also using the narrower viewport this might help.
But as the above posts have said the deal is simple, with a limited amount of screen real estate, how do we want to use it? Wider view, simulating out peripheral vision, or narrower showing our 'focused' vision... Neither are 'realistic'
Of course more screens will help...and other tech, though not sure about head tracking, unless the viewport is attached to your head i.e. helmet/goggles but I guess this is a few years off yet.
Suppose all we can ask is that PD (and others) give us options, so we can choose what feels right for us.
- 1,600
- ON, Canada
- AMCNUT
- AMCNUT
I prefer bumper cam since I have the widest field of view, plus that's what I used and got good at in GT2. Besides, in cockpit view I find it tough to know exactly where the corner of the car is, which can be important if I'm apexing a corner or am involved in door-to-door racing! I personally don't have much use for cockpit cams unless it's just for the novelty of it.
However, one major exception to the above stated is the Kubelwagen. Being a convertible with minimal bodywork, I can still see great and personally enjoy racing it since it's slow enough (even fully tuned) that a slight misjudgment isn't fatal. Also, it's a Kubelwagen - 'nuff said.
However, one major exception to the above stated is the Kubelwagen. Being a convertible with minimal bodywork, I can still see great and personally enjoy racing it since it's slow enough (even fully tuned) that a slight misjudgment isn't fatal. Also, it's a Kubelwagen - 'nuff said.
- 14
- JerCotter7
I thought having no cockpit in some cars would annoy me. But it really doesn't at all Love using it but don't mind using the roof cam at all.
Love using it but don't mind using the roof cam at all.- 34
- icefox1983
that's why the game provides 4 views guys!
R34EVO9
(Banned)
- 767
- USA.CT
- h3llaflshh
I like the in cart view because i can actually see further ahead and i can actually get to use the mirror to see who is next to me. I didn't really use it either but i started using and actually started running faster using in car view over bumper cam. On the ring at night i can drive and see better from in car view so i actually like it
Everyone is entitled to use and prefer whatever view they wish, but if a negative thread like this resulted in a view being cut from a game I think that would be grossly unfair!
If you prefer one view over another, great, use it!
No amount of debate can ever conclude in a verdict, all this does is eventually turn nasty and get locked.
If you prefer one view over another, great, use it!
No amount of debate can ever conclude in a verdict, all this does is eventually turn nasty and get locked.
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