Cockpit view - IMHO overated and not so useful...

[machschnel]

No game is realistic. No game has 100% realistic physics. Not even close. In order for true simulation you will need a full multi million dollar moving simulator that needs a football field size building to house that auto makers have in order to simulate basic things like g-forces

We do the best we can.

GT5's cockpit view is as realistic as 99.99% of us can get

Your demands are unrealistic to 99.99% of the public

It's not realistic, please stop saying it. You can rephrase it "I like cockpit view the best". This is your opinion, subjective. The word realistic however (in this case) is objective, it doesn't take into account your lack of common sense.

Driving a car with my G27 replicates the cars steering wheel (you could say realistically). Gran Turismo 5 has an excellent physics engine (you could say realistic). But having two hands, a steering wheel and in some cases part of "legs" on screen will NEVER be realistic. Strangely enough, I already have a steering wheel, hands, legs........

Tell me again how a view replicating the above would be "unrealsitic to 99% of people"?

 

[Rocket Punch]

Let me make this clear, there is not one view in Gran Turismo that is even remotely "realistic".

No.

Let me make this clear; The entire process of playing video games is not even remotely "realistic". You should give up playing video games. 👍

LET ME ALSO MAKE THIS CLEAR. In my opinion, I think cockpit view is the most realistic view among all of the views offered in this game, and no one in this entire forum or the world is obligated to agree with me.

 

[Patrocles]

Bingo. What we're discussing is a problem inherent to one-screen, photo-real simulation. To get coverage of everything a person can see in peripheral vision you have to use an extreme wide-angle lens (< 24mm), but that results in an unnatural perspective when displayed for simulation purposes on a single 2-D screen. What humans concentrate on is a much narrower field, with a completely different perspective equivalent to that of about an 85mm lens. The cockpit view in essence is trying to compromise that difference in field of view -- unsuccessfully, in my opinion, as I prefer bumper cam.

I can't fault PD for this, as Kaz and the gang are running into (and not solving) the same problem that's dogged authors of consumer-level flight-sim software for years. Take a look for example at Microsoft Flight Simulator, which has always offered cockpit view. The first thing veteran users of that software will do on installing it is to make sure to dial in a couple notches of zoom into what they're seeing out the window -- because the default perspective, though true to that of the wide-angle lenses M$ and add-on authors use to create cockpit interiors, isn't perceptually "right" when you're trying to judge critical distances on approach to landing. The extra zoom corrects that. But note that the zoom doesn't affect the display of the instrument panel, which operates in effect as a separate view and has to be up on screen pretty much as is, wide-angle, so you see all the gauges you need to use to operate the plane.

The only way pro-level sims (and well-heeled consumers) solve for this is to use multiple screens to create a wraparound perspective for the outside view, and to use practical rather than virtual instrument panels for the interior. In the flight-sim community there are actually more than a few folks who've used 5 screens, multiple CPUs and some major carpentry and electrical work worth thousands of dollars in cash or man hours to build their own cockpits. I don't think, or at least haven't seen any evidence, that it's really possible to overcome the perspective issue with a single screen. Maybe 3-D TVs will change that, but I'm dubious.

In addition to the Wikpedia article on Field of View linked above, see the one on Angle of View for more info.

hear! hear!
👍

 

[machschnel]

No.

Let me make this clear; The entire process of playing video games is not even remotely "realistic". You should give up playing video games. 👍

LET ME ALSO MAKE THIS CLEAR. In my opinion, I think cockpit view is the most realistic view among all of the views offered in this game, and no one in this entire forum or the world is obligated to agree with me.

And you feel the need to divulge your opinion to me because......

Nothing wrong with opinions, just people using objective words to describe their opinion (the definition of subjective). But once again, you've laced your opinion with objectivity.

Obligated? Real subtle. So if I told someone who thought the sky was pink, that it is actually blue, is he "obligated to agree with me"? No, he has an obligation to science ie. facts.

Let me have a go at your routine though, you seem to enjoy it..

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR, IN MY OPINION the world is flat, dogs have 6 legs and humans can run at over 100km/h.

That was fun, completely erroneous, but fun never the less.

 

[zqxwjv]

I've played GT since version 1 and used the bumper cam view in 1-4. Now that I've gotten used to the cockpit view, I drive premium cars only and enjoy the heck out of it. The bumper cam just doesn't cut it for me anymore.

 

[willstuart]

I just use the view where you see the road in about 90% of the cars i drive.

 

[7HO]

C'mon, for Pete's sake! Please... just ONE of you cockpit fanboys. Sit in your car. Hold your head still. Note what you can see without moving your head.

BOTH DOORS. BOTH SIDE MIRRORS. Almost 180º of clear vision. Even without moving your eyes at all (NOT your head), your peripheral vision is capable of detecting motion at up to 180º http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view

1 Cockpit view gives you the view of a blinkered horse in a derby! It is completely unrealistic. Fun to gaze around the lovely interior, but impractical to drive. If it covered the entire field of view, then yes, I'd say you have a point. But you are deluding yourselves if you think it is any way represents what you REALLY see. It takes ten seconds to prove this. Go ahead, I'll wait...

Back? Good...

Now, let's talk about what we REALLY need... Bumper cam (or as it actually is, cockpit view without the dash and artificially restricted field of view) needs to be identical to cockpit view, at least as far as being INSIDE the windshield. The same windshield wipers, the same raindrops, and you ought to be able to see however much hood (or bonnet!) you would be able to see from that perspective. Sit in front of this with a wheel, you are getting MUCH closer to what you'd really see.

2 I'd also like to see the generic speedo and tach replaced with the actual speedo and tach from the car (at least on Premium's). For one thing, this would get rid of the risk of burn-in on plasma's and those playing the game obsessively (!), and again, it would make you more aware of WHICH car you are driving (although the hood itself would be a good cue, too). Even Shift got this right, for Pete's sake! This seems so cheapskate, leaving these off. If you modeled the darn things already, why NOT use them in hood cam?

So much left unfinished...

1. Actually it is like the view you would have if you were wearing a racing helmet that restricted your field of view, so IMO it is still the most realistic view in GT5

2. PD have already done this with 1.05, you can now turn of the generic instruments and rely on the cars instruments, I race this way exclusively.

The only problems I have with cockpit view in GT5 is that head tracking only works in arcade mode and there is no view wider than the current default view. If head tracking was enabled cockpit view would be by far the most realistic view you could achieve because you could move your head to see around corners and see the car along side you. The only other issue is matching the cockpit view to the size of your screen, if you want to play on a very large screen such as a projector there is no view that will allow your cockpit to be a realistic size, this is a big disappointment to me because even without head tracking I would love it if I could have an extra wide view in a wider aspect ratio that would allow me to see more with a realistic size cockpit on a giant screen. Ideally the best view for me would be the appropriate size cockpit view on a large TV with head tracking. GT5 has neither.

I find cockpit view the most immersive and I am a fan of the head shake, I just find cockpit view with head shake gives me more feel for the car and makes it feel more like the real car that is being simulated.

Bumper view is totally unrealistic to me because it isn't bumper view, there is clearly an invisible front end of the car in bumper view so it is actually the wide cockpit view without the cockpit being displayed. But I also don't like bumper view because as I have said above the cockpit view gives me more feel for the car and is more immersive.

The only other view that I think could be realistic is a good windscreen view from the centre of the windscreen. If this view existed since head tracking does not exist I could build a cockpit of a car from one of the wrecks in my back yard with a giant screen in front of the windscreen, the other advantage would be that I could drive every car in GT5 as a RHD.

Since non of this exists I'll continue to race in cockpit view and go through the horrible process of changing the width every time I change cars and hope that in the not too distant future head tracking gets added to Online and A-spec.

 

[t.o.]

The word realistic however (in this case) is objective, it doesn't take into account your lack of common sense.

Driving a car with my G27 replicates the cars steering wheel (you could say realistically).

And I could say NO it's not realistic. It's probably as real as it gets for most of us.

Gran Turismo 5 has an excellent physics engine (you could say realistic).

And I could say NO it's not realistic but it's probably as real as it gets for most of us.

But having two hands, a steering wheel and in some cases part of "legs" on screen will NEVER be realistic. Strangely enough, I already have a steering wheel, hands, legs........

But having the dials, obstructed view, challenge of the view is as realistic as it gets for most of us. AND if you are driving in real life you are looking out the window. Everything else becomes peripheral vision just as in real life. I will grant this. If you're sitting a ridiculously long distance from your TV then all views don't quite "work". But if you're close enough it works.

All these diagrams and pics people are putting up don't really mean much. What I DO know is when driving in these games the cockpit view simulates the driving FOR ME ,AS A PERSON WHO DRIVES IN REAL LIFE, the best.

 

[Earth]

machschnel you hide your true beliefs because your afraid of the can of worms it will open forcing you to defend yourself yet you have the gall to attack me and my thoughts. What view do you think is MOST realistic. Please dont hide behind "they're all unrealistic" because then you need to race for real because no sim is good enough

Crying about virtual arms and feet? It's a game for crying out loud. I run into head on traffic at 200mph, bounce off them and keep om going and have the pits fix the car in 10 seconds but arms visible from the cockpit view ruin the realism?

Bumper may give you a wider field of vision but the ability to see ground below you like Fred Flinstone, no car specific guages just a one size fits all floating tach, no realistic obstructions like the a pillar or mirror THAT DOES AFFECT real drivers, and of couse rain/snow on the screen

And 180 degree of vision IS NOT needed to race cars. If you need to look around at a stop sign 4 way yeah but not racing.

 

[Villain]

Have you tried the Cockpit View in the Citroen GT Racing Concept?

It'll blow your mind.

 

[MastrGt]

You will really appriciate driving Cockpit view around wet nurburgring with Citreon Race Car GT. its totally ****!. i hate that car. i can't see a thing

 

[Earth]

Double post because of PS3 text limit

NASCAR drivers probably see less then 16x9 because of their head rests. Closed protoype rqcers have horrendous visibility.

180 degree vision is not needed to hit apexes. With 16x9 you can see the corners of your bumper on most cars. Those you cant you probably cant in real life either

 

[Rocket Punch]

And you feel the need to divulge your opinion to me because......

Nothing wrong with opinions, just people using objective words to describe their opinion (the definition of subjective). But once again, you've laced your opinion with objectivity.

Obligated? Real subtle. So if I told someone who thought the sky was pink, that it is actually blue, is he "obligated to agree with me"? No, he has an obligation to science ie. facts.

Let me have a go at your routine though, you seem to enjoy it..

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR, IN MY OPINION the world is flat, dogs have 6 legs and humans can run at over 100km/h.

That was fun, completely erroneous, but fun never the less.

LOL. Your ignorance amuse me. I am gonna have to quote this. Just so can't edit your post out.

How can you even compare a person's subjective view towards an issue with quantifiable scientific facts? LOL, and I thought America's education system was bad.....

I digress.

 

[machschnel]

LOL. Your ignorance amuse me. I am gonna have to quote this. Just so can't edit your post out.

How can you even compare a person's subjective view towards an issue with quantifiable scientific facts? LOL, and I thought America's education system was bad.....

I digress.

Evidently, America's educational system is bad. Just look at all the evidence pragmatically.

First, I'd say humans having two arms/hands is "quantifiable scientific fact".

Second, cockpit view has two arms/hands modeled into it. Fact.

Ergo, if I was to play Gran Turismo 5 in cockpit view I would, in theory, have four arms/hands.

While a human having fours arms/hands may be subjectively your preferred view, objectively speaking, it will never be realistic, it can't be. I have no problem with anyone stated their opinion, just don't say it's realistic.

 

[7HO]

But I'll argue that it's a fact I never see my own arms when I play the game.

 

[Tora.RS]

I look at it this way...

My "vision" is the TV screen. I now use "Zoomed" cockpit view because it only gives me the two dials on my dashboard & the windscreen.

I think this is pretty much the same thing as I drive my car - where I keep an eye on the speedometer & tachometer while looking directly in front of me

 

[Earth]

But I'll argue that it's a fact I never see my own arms when I play the game.

You have to choose

Cockpit cam offers:

- extra arms in racing suit and racing gloves
- 16:9 visibility

+ car specific steering wheel sometimes with useful rev lights
+ car specific dash, tach, and speedometer
+ car specific visibility
+ car specific left or right driver side
+ car specific rear view mirrors that can be used.
+ rain and snow on windshield
+ Works well with no HUD

Bumper cam offers:

+ wider then 16:9 view of the road
+ Your generic wheel and bare hands are what controls the car
+ Your wheel stand acts as the dashboard

- perfect unobstructed vision for every car even of the road below you. Yabba dabba doo!
- Generic floating tach and speedometer for every car
- Generic floating mirror for every car
- perfect unobstructed vision in rain and snow
- Driver seat is always in the middle thoughonly a handful of cars of the 1,030 are like that
- A disaster with no HUD

 

[novcze]

You have to choose

Cockpit cam offers:

- extra arms in racing suit and racing gloves
- 16:9 visibility

+ car specific steering wheel sometimes with useful rev lights
+ car specific dash, tach, and speedometer
+ car specific visibility
+ car specific left or right driver side
+ car specific rear view mirrors that can be used.
+ rain and snow on windshield
+ Works well with no HUD

Bumper cam offers:

+ wider then 16:9 view of the road
+ Your generic wheel and bare hands are what controls the car
+ Your wheel stand acts as the dashboard

- perfect unobstructed vision for every car even of the road below you. Yabba dabba doo!
- Generic floating tach and speedometer for every car
- Generic floating mirror for every car
- perfect unobstructed vision in rain and snow
- Driver seat is always in the middle thoughonly a handful of cars of the 1,030 are like that
- A disaster with no HUD

"bumper" cam view is not wider, actually opposite is true if you look at this pictures https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=147718&page=6#post4381417

cockpit view also gives you tinted colors due to tint of the windscreen

 

[IMZ14U2NV]

First I would like to say that I do understand the point that was made by the OP, but I must say that I don’t just play to get the fastest times, after all this is supposed to be fun, in the end it is a game and the Cockpit view just makes it so much more interesting and immersive and FUN for me. The point is well taken that says “This would be like looking inside the cockpit through another cockpit”, but it just feels Soooo much better for me in cockpit view.

I have seen other threads where people say that they can get faster times with the controller or is the game better with a steering wheel and I just laugh because I have been driving forever and I have never come across a car with a PS3 controller to steer it!!!

 

[jpressley101]

The bumper view is a much better simulation of what you would FEEL like you are seeing when you are actually racing in a car. When you are driving, you are much more drawn into what you are seeing through the windshield; in order to simulate that focused state that you are in you have to make the entire screen the windshield. I guess you could argue that the cockpit view is more realistic than the bumper view, but the problem is that you aren't paying attention to your hands and all the pretty lights on the dashboard when you're driving. Also the little bit lower that the bumper view is than the cockpit view is nice when driving. I use the bumper view and always have.

 

[phil_2001]

The bumper cam is like racing an actual car as you feel the car underneath you and also more exciting as the speed just feels right(in the cockpit is feel a bit slow). With the cockpit cam it seems that the car is remotely placed from you and you're not in the middle of it, but behind it. But I also suppose it depends on the screen size, say with a 37" TV the cockpit may be just right. I am using a 24" PC one. My two cents.

 

[BanksyE30]

I only ever race in roof view

 

[Destinkeys]

I have found a way to make the cockpit view as COMPLETELY realistic as real driving...

Get in your real car. Close one eye (the left, for RH side driving countries). Put your right hand vertically on the bridge of your nose (or left for the Brits!) and block off partially what the open eye can see to the right side. Put something in the way of seeing what you can see to the edge of the left side.

Now go drive round your neighborhood at speed for a few minutes. Just don't do it anywhere NEAR me!

Crashed yet?

If THAT'S realism, count me out.

 

[joxdj]

I have found a way to make the cockpit view as COMPLETELY realistic as real driving...

Get in your real car. Close one eye (the left, for RH side driving countries). Put your right hand vertically on the bridge of your nose (or left for the Brits!) and block off partially what the open eye can see to the right side. Put something in the way of seeing what you can see to the edge of the left side.

Now go drive round your neighborhood at speed for a few minutes. Just don't do it anywhere NEAR me!

Crashed yet?

If THAT'S realism, count me out.

haha I love how bad you make it seem. I literally have zero problem seeing in cockpit view of most cars. Clearly there is no need to argue over personal preference of a video game but it sure is fun to read.

 

[DrDeathO5]

I think a lot of you don't see the point.

The most important thing about cockpit view isn't only about being realistic or not.
But it's all about immersion.
You get the sence off being in the car instead of playing a game.

Why do you think most hardcore PC simulators and the players use cockpit view?

that sad i wish that PD included more options like putting steering wheel, hands, and race information on and off and a virtual mirror is also needed in cockpit view.

for instance it's more fun i think to drive with the virtual gauges of in cockpit view but it would be nice to have info for the tires and fuel consumption cause right now the fuel guage doesn't work in cockpit view.

And you should also have the option to turn the head-movement shaking thing down or to suit it to your taste.

 

[Destinkeys]

I don't mind what anyone's PREFERENCE is, but when I see the word 'realistic' applied to something that patently isn't, I am afraid I have to call 'foul'!

I don't expect absolute 'realism', but I WOULD like some of the unreality removed. If you use dash cam (we have GOT to stop calling it bumper cam, that myth has been BUSTED!), I would like to see a hood. I would like to see the windshield wipers and the raindrops, as if I'm looking THROUGH the windshield. And yes, it might be nice as an option to have the view slightly to one side or another, as if from the driver position (except the McClaren F1, of course!).

Without triple monitors to restore the real field of view, without head tracking working flawlessly to mitigate the problem on screens narrower than your total field of view, this is as close as it's going to get. Strangely, for all its' arcade roots, this is something that Shift got spot on. Dash cam showed EXACTLY what you can see from the dash, and superimposed the actual car specific instruments, including rev lights where used.

We should expect no LESS from GT5...

 

[lbsf1]

I personally prefer bumper cam for when I'm racing however if I'm photomoding or messing around I prefer the experiance of Cotpit cam.

Most of us don't sit right next to our tv so on cotpit view the area which is showing the track is reletivly small in our whole field of vision. This is what I find to make is more difficult because you have to focus on an even smaller area and therefore I can't concentrate on the track as easy.

In real racing your helmet/cotpit takes up part of your vision, however you arn't looking at a small tv, the whole of vision is taken up by the cotpit and track.


This might be an easier way to explain it.
gt5:
cotpit.
50% area around tv.
25% cotpit
25% track

bumper cam.
50% Area around tv.
50% track

Real life:
50% cotpit
50% track

Hope you get me.

 

[IMZ14U2NV]

Well,
I sit 5’ away from my 52” HD LCD and I really Enjoy Cockpit View!!!

I think everyone has their preference and all I can say is you can always expect different opinions when you ask a question, so everyone enjoy what makes them happy…..I know I will, Happy New Year Everyone!

 

[Earth]

The bumper view is a much better simulation of what you would FEEL like you are seeing when you are actually racing in a car. When you are driving, you are much more drawn into what you are seeing through the windshield; in order to simulate that focused state that you are in you have to make the entire screen the windshield. I guess you could argue that the cockpit view is more realistic than the bumper view, but the problem is that you aren't paying attention to your hands and all the pretty lights on the dashboard when you're driving. Also the little bit lower that the bumper view is than the cockpit view is nice when driving. I use the bumper view and always have.

Personally I dont notice my own arms or DFGT or even the arms and wheel of the cockpit cam when driving. I am 95% focused looking out the windshield of the cockpit cam. I have to wonder if people gave cockpit cam more time would they grow to focus looking out the windscreen too. But if it truly bothers some people, then thats that

 

[Le Mans 88]

And car interiors block the view of anything below it, real cars show this.

Neither is perfect but the bumper cam gives you the same visibility and more as in RL, the cockpit view gives you less visibility than in RL due to the lack of peripheral vision.