Competitive Racing License

[TT92]

Ah okay thought it was something like that, well that is kinda lame people are doing that. It crossed my mind but it’s more grinding to that than to just rank up normally after each event for me personally. While it may be a loophole though your skill points also take into account of race length... so probably will be a hinder to that side of your overall rank.

Lets do some math here. At the moment the veteran license is 350 races completed. So if you want to get there naturally lets say your average race length is 5 laps and the average lap time is 2 minutes and then each race is 10 minutes long, now add 2 minutes for start and cool down times so we are now at 12 minutes. So we have 350 x 12 = 426 minutes or 71 hrs or approximately 3 days of actual race time. Or if you play 3 hrs per day then that is approx. 24 days at 7 days a week. Now allow for longer races, practice and qualifying sessions, disconnects etc and the time really blows out to double this. So you now see why people boost. *IF* SMS had not made it a trophy requirement then the system would be more accurate and may even work better.

I can agree with that, it would be nice. However I feel though if that was known, people could take advantage of it and make dirty moves on a low risk manoeuvre or something similar to this.

Well it has been worked out now and people are doing it so it is a moot point really ;-)

 

[zr1chris]

Had a few good races tonight. Finished at C1481.

 

[Pubs16]

Lets do some math here. At the moment the veteran license is 350 races completed. So if you want to get there naturally lets say your average race length is 5 laps and the average lap time is 2 minutes and then each race is 10 minutes long, now add 2 minutes for start and cool down times so we are now at 12 minutes. So we have 350 x 12 = 426 minutes or 71 hrs or approximately 3 days of actual race time. Or if you play 3 hrs per day then that is approx. 24 days at 7 days a week. Now allow for longer races, practice and qualifying sessions, disconnects etc and the time really blows out to double this. So you now see why people boost. *IF* SMS had not made it a trophy requirement then the system would be more accurate and may even work better.

I don’t think it’s cumulative... like I said, each race length, per race is seperate and taken into account each seperate race for its scoring on you.

And where are you getting 350 races for Veteran status from?

Well it has been worked out now and people are doing it so it is a moot point really ;-)

I don’t think that’s the case or I’d be seeing a lot more B’s and A’s than I do U’s and F’s... and not a lot of people have over 1500 points that I’ve seen.

 

[xtro01]

Horrible races last night... I encountered some real a***les who rammed my wheel out of my car. Unable to restart and I lost 40 points like that. That pissed me off so much I had another similar experience the next race and the one after that I just lost it. Did some doughnuts in the middle of the track then chased down the perpetrator and pushed him until he stopped... then one race where I got stuck with 20 min with crazy difficult AI and the host left after 1 min. I quit that too... all this mess and I'm down at D1330 in one night after 4 good days in the 1500s. Online sucks

 

[R9NALD9]

If anyone is interested I now have the information I required to nut out these licenses and the PS4 trophies that go with them.

The Safety rank is the letter U > S and is dependant on the the number of online clean laps. The actual number to get to B for the trophy is at this stage unknown but I am at C at the moment with about 45 races done and a lot of disconnects and a lot of getting punted off the track when it was not my fault but got pinged for it anyway.

The number is only on completed online race results and you lose between 45-50 points for a disconnect even if it is not your fault. So if you get kicked, host quits and crashes the lobby or the net is just flakey (like it always is) then *YOU* lose points >:-( BUT, this is the good news, no one seems to care about them.

The third part to this (which no one has discussed yet) is the actual level of license Amateur > Pro. Now these are only dependant on the number of complete races regardless of finishing position or safety record.

The list is: Amateur = 50 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Pro-Am = 100 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Pro = 200 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Veteran = 350 completed online races regardless of safety or position

So once you get into a "Boosting Lobby" you will very quickly achieve all this.

So what can we now gather from all this. Firstly SMS are <insert swear word of choice here> for not explaining this clearly and leaving everyone confused. It has taken me 10 days and a lot of grief to finally nut this out all which could have been avoided by SMS actually caring to clearly explain their fiasco of a system.

The next important thing is with boosting it makes a complete and utter mockery of the whole system and you *STILL* do not know what a person is really like from his lisence grade.

So to sum up;
Letter U>S is a safety rating
Number 0>5000 is race results
Colour (Am > Pro) the number of completed online races
And remember **ALL THREE** are independent of each other which is the confusing thing.

So the next time you see a Gold Veteran on track with a A2000+ license the question is, is he legit or just a booster. You wont know until the first corner will you ;-) BUT *IF* it is in the next month or so then it will definitely be a booster.

Thanks to all those that have helped me nut this out.

How sure are you the amateur to pro license is completed online races and not any of the races?

350 is an insane amount...which sucks. I've always hated it when developers force you to play an insane amount of hours just to get a trophy....with all these rammers I doubt I'll ever reach a veteran license. I mean I love the game and really wanted to make it my 2nd plat but with a wife and kids...hahah 350 completed online races is just too much.

 

[TT92]

I don’t think it’s cumulative... like I said, each race length, per race is seperate and taken into account each seperate race for its scoring on you.

And where are you getting 350 races for Veteran status from?


I don’t think that’s the case or I’d be seeing a lot more B’s and A’s than I do U’s and F’s... and not a lot of people have over 1500 points that I’ve seen.

Have a look up a few posts and read my post that explains how all this really works. And where I got the race lengths from is from a boosting lobby ;-)

 

[TT92]

How sure are you the amateur to pro license is completed online races and not any of the races?

Very sure.

350 is an insane amount...which sucks.

I've always hated it when developers force you to play an insane amount of hours just to get a trophy....with all these rammers I doubt I'll ever reach a veteran license. [/QUOTE]

Yes agreed. BUT, the veteran license does not depend on the safety record so even being continually rammed and smashed (like I am) you will still eventually get it just by completing races.

I mean I love the game and really wanted to make it my 2nd plat but with a wife and kids...hahah 350 completed online races is just too much.

That's why there are boosting lobbies and why this system is a fiasco.

BTW This will be my 8th platinum. I have done it in GT5 and 6, PCARS1, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally (just the driving game listed).

IF I had known this before I bought the game I probably wouldn't have bothered but I based my idea of the trophies on what PCARS1 was like e.g. long and boring offline.

 

[Pubs16]

Have a look up a few posts and read my post that explains how all this really works. And where I got the race lengths from is from a boosting lobby ;-)

Yes I read that, but that’s you just saying that X Races = Pro//Am/Veteren level, what is your source??

Boosting lobby yes but as I said; that can only help your experience and safety rating (if you don’t get hit) and not your skill because of race length (low all the time, as opposed to endurance).

So to sum up;
Letter U>S is a safety rating
Number 0>5000 is race results
Colour (Am > Pro) the number of completed online races
And remember **ALL THREE** are independent of each other which is the confusing thing.

How is this confusing? It’s clearly stated on their website... Except for how many races to get the certain colour strip.

Yes agreed. BUT, the veteran license does not depend on the safety record so even being continually rammed and smashed (like I am) you will still eventually get it just by completing races.

That's why there are boosting lobbies and why this system is a fiasco.

BTW This will be my 8th platinum. I have done it in GT5 and 6, PCARS1, Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally (just the driving game listed).

IF I had known this before I bought the game I probably wouldn't have bothered but I based my idea of the trophies on what PCARS1 was like e.g. long and boring offline.

Even if you’re continually ram and get rammed, if you reach Veteran then everyone will still see you have a low safety and skill rating. So how is it a fiasco?

“Long & boring offline”... probably yes; if you’re only grinding to the trophies that is, as opposed to actually playing the game for what it offers lol. Subjective much.

 

[Pubs16]

Sorry double post.

 

[TT92]

Even if you’re continually ram and get rammed, if you reach Veteran then everyone will still see you have a low safety and skill rating. So how is it a fiasco?

Because what ever the numbers, letters or colours on a license have absolutely no relevance to what that person drives like on track.

I will spell it out very clearly. Someone can boost up to S 5000 Veteran. They cannot lose the veteran license once achieved. So once they start ramming and corner cutting their places will probably stay quite high so there will be little change to the number. As far as safety goes once it starts to drop down it will be easy to boost back up again.

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

 

[Mr Tree]

Lets do some math here. At the moment the veteran license is 350 races completed. So if you want to get there naturally lets say your average race length is 5 laps and the average lap time is 2 minutes and then each race is 10 minutes long, now add 2 minutes for start and cool down times so we are now at 12 minutes. So we have 350 x 12 = 426 minutes or 71 hrs or approximately 3 days of actual race time. Or if you play 3 hrs per day then that is approx. 24 days at 7 days a week. Now allow for longer races, practice and qualifying sessions, disconnects etc and the time really blows out to double this. So you now see why people boost. *IF* SMS had not made it a trophy requirement then the system would be more accurate and may even work better.




Well it has been worked out now and people are doing it so it is a moot point really ;-)

The safety is 'not' to be boosted or it will drop of pretty fast after the boost. The point score same story...

So what's wrong with people who want to grind.their way to veteran? Btw just wondering. I'm not going to grind my mmo days are over.

Because what ever the numbers, letters or colours on a license have absolutely no relevance to what that person drives like on track.

I will spell it out very clearly. Someone can boost up to S 5000 Veteran. They cannot lose the veteran license once achieved. So once they start ramming and corner cutting their places will probably stay quite high so there will be little change to the number. As far as safety goes once it starts to drop down it will be easy to boost back up again.

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

How long would it take to boost the number or the safety rating? Before you have that info one can hardly claim a fiasco.

Also if this system is a fiasco please explain how you'd rund the liscence as to make sure one can not boost? It's easy yo critique but beeing constructive would go a long way.

 

[Georgeagea]

Don't want to look like a jerk, but are people now racing for fun/racing or for ranking?!
I mean I don't deny that I care for my rating but it's not my main purpose! I still race whatever and wherever and have some nice fun time competing with people!
I'm not too concerned if I go up or down! Not too concerned if I'm at F or A! It's definitely a plus but not a requirement!

Don't forget the fun guys! Don't turn that in your heads to the old competitions we had in school for grades! Grades became the target instead of the education!

 

[R9NALD9]

Because what ever the numbers, letters or colours on a license have absolutely no relevance to what that person drives like on track.

I will spell it out very clearly. Someone can boost up to S 5000 Veteran. They cannot lose the veteran license once achieved. So once they start ramming and corner cutting their places will probably stay quite high so there will be little change to the number. As far as safety goes once it starts to drop down it will be easy to boost back up again.

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

That being said there is no way to remedy this. I mean I can go to the license department...get my drivers license by following all the rules, driving safely and nicely. But nothing stops me to run over pedestrians, speeding and crashing into cars after I got my drivers license.

 

[rono_thomas]

Because what ever the numbers, letters or colours on a license have absolutely no relevance to what that person drives like on track.

I will spell it out very clearly. Someone can boost up to S 5000 Veteran. They cannot lose the veteran license once achieved. So once they start ramming and corner cutting their places will probably stay quite high so there will be little change to the number. As far as safety goes once it starts to drop down it will be easy to boost back up again.

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

The veteran of the license means very little in the grand scheme of things. The other parts of the license would be lost very quickly once outside of a boosting lobby and anyone whos any good at the game would recognise their skills dont match their license.

What you describe is only good enough to get a trophy.

 

[TT92]

I see some people have taken issue with the facts as I have presented them. Remember, don't shoot the messenger ;-) I have not advocated how people are using/abusing the system I have only pointed out what is *actually* happening and how people are circumventing it while at the same time given some useful information in explaining the current system a and pointing out flaws.

Do with this information as you will, I really did not come here for an argument or to play endless hypotheticals.

 

[Mr Tree]

I see some people have taken issue with the facts as I have presented them. Remember, don't shoot the messenger ;-) I have not advocated how people are using/abusing the system I have only pointed out what is *actually* happening and how people are circumventing it while at the same time given some useful information in explaining the current system a and pointing out flaws.

Do with this information as you will, I really did not come here for an argument or to play endless hypotheticals.

I have not taken issue with the information. I've taken issue with the conclusion you extract from it. I've also taken issue with the wild accusations that boosting lobbies are a very common, without providing evidence.
This means we're not shooting the messenger we're shooting at the conclusions the messenger derives from the message.

You've pointed out flaws? We asked how you would implement a system without the flaws you've pointed out. (I believe those flaws are inherrent flaws when setting up a rating system)

So honnest question what would you change if you lack this much trust in the current system?


Edit: for example how long would it take to boost a U1500player to S2000? If this takes more then a month is this a viable path to a good rating? I don't think so, you might give me reasons why I'm wrong.

Also how fast will it drop if your rating is enormously better then you driving capabilities?

These are important questions if you want to check if the implemented system works as intended.

Again not shooting the messenger just trying to find out if the system is a good one or a bad one...

Hope to get some answers.

 

[StefanMac]

I've lost atleast 100 points now thanks to random disconnects during a race .. any word on if this will be patched?

 

[Anomalistics]

Had another game breaker last night. We had a race on Monza, the lobby was configured so that no configurational changes could be made to the car. We're all given a starting fuel (it's a three lap race) and after two laps, everyone has run out of fuel because the game has calculated it incorrectly.

We had to quit the lobby.. Meaning I've gone from B1645 to B1598....

 

[TRGTspecialist]

If anyone is interested I now have the information I required to nut out these licenses and the PS4 trophies that go with them.

The Safety rank is the letter U > S and is dependant on the the number of online clean laps. The actual number to get to B for the trophy is at this stage unknown but I am at C at the moment with about 45 races done and a lot of disconnects and a lot of getting punted off the track when it was not my fault but got pinged for it anyway.

The number is only on completed online race results and you lose between 45-50 points for a disconnect even if it is not your fault. So if you get kicked, host quits and crashes the lobby or the net is just flakey (like it always is) then *YOU* lose points >:-( BUT, this is the good news, no one seems to care about them.

The third part to this (which no one has discussed yet) is the actual level of license Amateur > Pro. Now these are only dependant on the number of complete races regardless of finishing position or safety record.

The list is: Amateur = 50 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Pro-Am = 100 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Pro = 200 completed online races regardless of safety or position
Veteran = 350 completed online races regardless of safety or position

So what can we now gather from all this. Firstly SMS are <insert swear word of choice here> for not explaining this clearly and leaving everyone confused. It has taken me 10 days and a lot of grief to finally nut this out all which could have been avoided by SMS actually caring to clearly explain their fiasco of a system.

Everything you say above was explained in the SMS articles @Pubs16 gave you, except for two things:

1) Disconnections losing you a lot of points. This would have been clear to you if you had been reading this thread, but I assume/hope you haven't, because a lot of people in here have attempted to explain various bits of the online system, and going by your posts you don't seem to have taken a lot of it on board

2) The number of races it takes to level your license's stripe. Incidentally, though, you go on to suggest that this part of the system is important on its own - it isn't, it doesn't have any effect on matching players, and is only a piece of the information to help people judge how much experience someone has with the game. This would have been clear to you if you had read the SMS articles, which say all of this.........

So from these two things I'm left here wondering whether you're just having a bit of a mental block, and all this information isn't fully getting through, or whether you're coming in here with a lot of complaints and confusions, but not actually reading the articles and posts that would clear a lot of things up.

Then, to make things even weirder, despite all of this confusion and difficulty, suddenly you're able to reach a conclusion that's crystal clear:

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

So actually it's all settled now, the system is confirmed useless, because..........some people have set up boosting lobbies? Are you serious?


Look, I realise that you seem to be cursed, where issues in racing games seem to affect you with more severity and frequency than pretty much anyone else here, and I sympathise with that. But I really do question why you think it's worth putting in a lot of effort to endure things you clearly don't like, and then taking those grievances to here, with seriously misplaced confidence - giving others a headache as we run around in circles trying to figure out where the problem really lies.

 

[Outspacer]

It's certainly a flawed system, and so was GTS's. They all are and always will be.

In both, the safety rating can be gamed - by precisely those who you probably wouldn't want to race against! It made a small amount of difference in GTS beta, but only because people weren't able to set up lobbies to game it even further.

Skill rating in GTS beta was based on qualifying and finish position. It didn't matter what skill levels you were up against. Terrible idea. Now SMS come along with what at heart looks like a much better system, scoring relative to the skill levels you're racing against, but apparently they ruin it with massive penalties for ending a race early (for whatever reason, be it quitting or running out of fuel). Has anyone worked out what the penalty is, compared to simply coming last?

The Amateur .. Veteran part just seems irrelevant, since it only ever goes up it means little anyway. So I don't really care that it can be gamed.

 

[rono_thomas]

It's certainly a flawed system, and so was GTS's. They all are and always will be.

In both, the safety rating can be gamed - by precisely those who you probably wouldn't want to race against! It made a small amount of difference in GTS beta, but only because people weren't able to set up lobbies to game it even further.

Skill rating in GTS beta was based on qualifying and finish position. It didn't matter what skill levels you were up against. Terrible idea. Now SMS come along with what at heart looks like a much better system, scoring relative to the skill levels you're racing against, but apparently they ruin it with massive penalties for ending a race early (for whatever reason, be it quitting or running out of fuel). Has anyone worked out what the penalty is, compared to simply coming last?

The Amateur .. Veteran part just seems irrelevant, since it only ever goes up it means little anyway. So I don't really care that it can be gamed.

Experience rating - Game away means nothing more than you’ve played the game alot.

Skill Rating - Again game away, means nothing more than your racing people that are slower, the same or faster. Seems to me that motor racing is either racing folk that are slower, the same or faster its only giving an indication of if your going to be lapping others, racing close or being lapped. Obviously close racing is preferable but really means very little in joining a lobby.

Safety Rating. Now this is the most concerning one, but I still say game away, why? To maintain a gamed safety rating would mean a lot of work if you are an unsafe racer, I mean you would have to alternate continuously between booster lobbies and “normal” lobbies and if you are a safe driver, if you end up competing against a gamed safety score, your still a safe racer, for me your instinctively avoiding these first corner accidents and other incidents. So game away.

Flawed or not the effort in maintaining a gamed Driver rating would mean you’d spend most of your time in booster lobbies, in my opinion they must be easily recognised.

So game away - this affects me in no way I’d simply leave and join another or create a new one.

 

[Outspacer]

Safety Rating. Now this is the most concerning one, but I still say game away, why? To maintain a gamed safety rating would mean a lot of work if you are an unsafe racer, I mean you would have to alternate continuously between booster lobbies and “normal” lobbies and if you are a safe driver, if you end up competing against a gamed safety score, your still a safe racer, for me your instinctively avoiding these first corner accidents and other incidents. So game away.

Seems like you think all 3 parts of it are fairly pointless! In GTS beta I found that the most frustrating race destroying attacks came from people who'd worked out they could get away with one or two shunts, so they made them count - made sure you were in the gravel and had no chance of coming back at them. Add in that going off track also scores against you, and the race could end with them gaining SR while you don't!! And this could be after racing for some time thinking you've got a clean racer behind you. Booster lobbies not required.

 

[IBZ6L20VT]

So we all agree then that Pcars2 system is the least worst system so far.

 

[rono_thomas]

Seems like you think all 3 parts of it are fairly pointless! In GTS beta I found that the most frustrating race destroying attacks came from people who'd worked out they could get away with one or two shunts, so they made them count - made sure you were in the gravel and had no chance of coming back at them. Add in that going off track also scores against you, and the race could end with them gaining SR while you don't!! And this could be after racing for some time thinking you've got a clean racer behind you. Booster lobbies not required.

Only until, and this has been promised, the patch drops, meaning that I can restrict what safety rating enters the room, then game’d ratings will soon be weeded out, they will soon be classed out.

So we all agree then that Pcars2 system is the least worst system so far.

In its current state.

 

[zr1chris]

I will spell it out very clearly. Someone can boost up to S 5000 Veteran. They cannot lose the veteran license once achieved. So once they start ramming and corner cutting their places will probably stay quite high so there will be little change to the number. As far as safety goes once it starts to drop down it will be easy to boost back up again.

Therefore I stand by my statement that, this system is a fiasco and has no relevance on how you can judge someone's driving ability.

I'm trying to figure out what this boosting is that I see everyone talking about. Can someone explain this to me?

From what I've seen the rating system works well. I don't agree with how some of the point deductions occur but that's a different subject

 

[R9NALD9]

I'm trying to figure out what this boosting is that I see everyone talking about. Can someone explain this to me?

From what I've seen the rating system works well. I don't agree with how some of the point deductions occur but that's a different subject

Boosting is basically people doing 1 lap or very short races at any track, though Knockhill seems to be a favorite due to it's shorter track length, just to get as many races as possible under their belts.

The reason is that the U -> A rating in your license is based on amount of clean laps as well as trying to get to the Veteran license (350 completed online races) as quickly as possible.

That is my understanding of it though...

 

[zr1chris]

Boosting is basically people doing 1 lap or very short races at any track, though Knockhill seems to be a favorite due to it's shorter track length, just to get as many races as possible under their belts.

The reason is that the U -> A rating in your license is based on amount of clean laps as well as trying to get to the Veteran license (350 completed online races) as quickly as possible.

That is my understanding of it though...

I see now. However if the letter rating also takes into account of number of clean laps then I'm not sure how a 1 lap race helps that particular aspect especially since the 1st lap is always the most sketchy.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I'm trying to figure out what this boosting is that I see everyone talking about. Can someone explain this to me?

Generally speaking (👍 to @R9NALD9 for the specific scenario), it's people devising some scheme, or working together in some fashion, to artificially raise their rank/rating faster than it would rise naturally. IMO, the idea that enough people will do this well enough (especially with the Elo-based performance rating) to distort the system and render it useless borders on the absurd, but that's just me.

In any case, since no evidence has been presented that the system has broken down yet, it's probably what you'd call a "hypothetical" - so presumably, this is the last we'll be hearing about it from one person, for now...........

Do with this information as you will, I really did not come here for an argument or to play endless hypotheticals.

 

[LPlates]

I keep getting disconnected all the time, my internet is fine as I have a laptop next to me and it has no problems atall, I worked my way up to 1550 and now its below 1500.... Why do you penalise getting dissconnected??? Why cant you just penalise people who quit, surely you can tell the difference???

Until the game can determine if someone simply pulls out their network cable, the devs have to penalise all types of disconnect equally.

It may not seem fair but the alternative is to throw out the license system altogether which would be worse.

 

[Double Ayyys]

I'd surely love to see replays of up to 20 seconds before and after a crash to see how the folks bashing the system so badly are actually driving. Even though we are driving virtual cars, by no means is it easy to do this door handle to door handle or bumper to bumper as there are so many variables going on through each lap. Wouldn't be that hard for you to capture one minute video clips of your crashes and share them so we can at least relate by feeling and watching the painful incidents as it will add validation to your concerns.

I am literally racing in any lobby and I never see someone intentionally crash someone. Instead I see mistakes being made by amateur drivers thinking that because they have played other racing games they are ready for the best sim physics to hit console.

I've also heard from the PC players that there isn't a huge audience quite like the ps4 platform because of the other well established sims available for PC and most people that went for pCars2 on the PC were the lower level drivers as the absolute motor heads will stay on iRacing (those with deep pockets as well) and the others are sticking to their trusted rFactor2, RaceRoom, etc.

And I sure haven't seen a boosting room as running one lap races would take forever to cycle through load times and etc. Why wouldn't they just agree to set up a 30 minute race and stay clear of each other and get in 50 laps at one go? I think you are talking about a minimal 1% of gamers that are so darn focused on the trophy system which means to me you are not a true gear head. You are a gamer and not a motorsport enthusiast otherwise you'd simply see that this game allows you to feel what it's like to race 180+ amazing cars on 60 tracks with 141 layouts. I have no idea how that lone wouldn't make you the happiest motor head there was.

And to those who are having issues are you on a controller or a wheel setup cause I can have tons of fun coming in last place and even being wrecked every so often because I'm friggin in my cockpit busting it in the cars I love and would have no chance to experience otherwise.