*Complete* SNAIL Michelin Pilot Challenge, "PS5 Users ONLY",GS/GT4 Monthly Series, Congrat's to Rauljimenez76 for the Championship!!

[Worst_Driver]

I would like to join. Some of you may have raced with me on the regular SNAIL sunday nights. I'm a spec racing guy because I suck at tuning and tinkering with my setup but this looks fun and very well organised. Unfortunately, 100% won't be able to race on the 18th of August, which is a shame because Trial Mountain is one of my favorites but only on the next race in september.

PSN ID: GTP_Worstdriver
GTPlanet ID: Worst_Driver
Car Number: 13
PS5 Platform: Yes
Car: Chevrolet Camaro ZL1

It was my first (and last) time playing with the livery editor. I always respected people with livery skills but man its so hard and time consuming to master. Absolutely not my thing, took me 2 hours to do that and I started with a pre made livery and modified it a bit. I also tried to do the white background thing and well there I am 😂

Looking forward to race with you guys !

 

[Nyati_Jumapil]

Guys, something that has been on my mind for a while and I wanted to talk to you about is ergonomics. I’ve been sim racing a really long time. I first started on NASCAR Racing ‘94. So that’s almost 30 years I have been doing this. And just like everyone else I started out with homemade rigs, stuff like that, and that’s fine. I’m not knocking it, or judging anyone. But I will be the first to tell you that our hobby, that we all love could be hurting your body. It’s a lot of repetitive motion that puts stress on the body. So, if you have never looked into racing ergonomics, I ask that you do. There are some simple rules to seating position, pedal position, and wheel angle to keep you from ruining your back, elbows, wrists, knees, and feet. If you are experiencing pain due to sim racing, I ask that you take the time to look into this and save yourself some pain. I’ll put some simple rules here and if you have any questions whatsoever ask me and I will help you anyway I can. I personally turn a lot of laps. So I have been through it. But there is a better way. It may not feel right at first but you will adapt. So here’s some rules to go by.

1. Shoes:

Don’t race in socks or barefooted. If you use a load cell especially. You’re killing the arches of your feet. You can go to a sporting goods store and get a pair of wrestling shoes. ASICS snapdown are the best I’ve used. I have many race shoes, but 9 times out of 10. I wear wrestling shoes sim racing. Save your feet. Mine kill me to this day because I raced in socks. Especially my left foot.

2. Lumbar support:

If you have any space between your back and the seat, you’re killing your lower back. You can go to about any store and go the automotive section. You’ll find various pads there just for that.
[edit]

Good info, thanks.

I don't have a load cell (I use G923), but the brake is modded to where it is pretty stiff and not much travel, and I started having "slipping" problems. I didn't want to spend the money on race shoes (yet), so I started looking into other options and landed on pool shoes. They are about $10 on Amazon.


I like the idea of wrestling shoes and will try that out.

I have a folding rig that does not have the most comfortable seat, and breaking my back a few years ago doesn't help. lol. But a specific pillow in just the right spot seems to do the trick for now.

 

[Chris Kelley]

Good info, thanks.

I don't have a load cell (I use G923), but the brake is modded to where it is pretty stiff and not much travel, and I started having "slipping" problems. I didn't want to spend the money on race shoes (yet), so I started looking into other options and landed on pool shoes. They are about $10 on Amazon.


I like the idea of wrestling shoes and will try that out.

I have a folding rig that does not have the most comfortable seat, and breaking my back a few years ago doesn't help. lol. But a specific pillow in just the right spot seems to do the trick for now.

Yeah, I would look into either wrestling or Karting shoes. Auto racing shoes don’t have quite the sensitivity. I’ve tried both, and prefer wrestling shoes. They’re perfect for what we do. And that would give you quite a bit more ankle support than the pool shoes. You can usually get them for around 40 bucks. I prefer the snap down because the rounded heal, and they have grips on the sides that work great for heal and toe. When you buy auto racing shoes you’re paying for fire resistant materials that are FIA approved.

 

[Nyati_Jumapil]

Yeah, I would look into either wrestling or Karting shoes. Auto racing shoes don’t have quite the sensitivity. I’ve tried both, and prefer wrestling shoes. They’re perfect for what we do. And that would give you quite a bit more ankle support than the pool shoes. You can usually get them for around 40 bucks. I prefer the snap down because the rounded heal, and they have grips on the sides that work great for heal and toe.

Thanks, I will be checking them out for sure.

 

[Chris Kelley]

These are the snapdown. They come in an array of color ways, they won’t disappoint. Your world will change. Lol
But yeah man, get something you can lace around those feet. Give them some support. As far as your back goes, you may want to wear a back support belt while racing. I’d say that would help quite a bit.
And I would go up one size with these. I wear a size 10 and found an 11 fit me best.

 

[Noob01_lmdead]

Why not use karting shoes?

 

[Chris Kelley]

Why not use karting shoes?

I have karting shoes. The reason I don’t use them is because they’re a bit hotter on my feet than wrestling shoes. Then most ppl don’t want to take a chance on ordering a $150.00 pair of karting shoes, to find out they don’t fit. You can go over to a sporting goods store and try on wrestling shoes. Make sure they fit right. Then you have the cost. A wrestling shoe is just as good if not better for sim racing at half the cost. I’m not worried about grinding my big toe off in my sim rig. So once again you’re paying for materials that you don’t need. You don’t need the kind of protection they provide to do this at the top level. Just support, a rounded heal to pivot. Has good grip, is light weight, fits your foot like a glove, plus they’re sleek so they don’t snag any thing, have outstanding sensitivity and flexibility.The wrestling shoe fits perfectly. It is all in what you like I guess. I prefer the wrestling shoes. I have some K-Poles and never use them.

 

[Noob01_lmdead]

 

[Chris Kelley]

Back when men where men. He was the man.😂 Watch how his passes off to the other foot, so he can trail brake through 11. He is also mashing the clutch ever so slightly with the brake, so he doesn’t wheel hop, and to ease the stress on the drive train. A true master of a long forgotten art. This is true heal and toe. Not to be confused with reverse heal and toe. I have probably studied this video over a thousand times throughout the years. Mimicking Rudd’s footwork is ingrained into ever technique I use while Sim Racing to this very day. I still study it often.

 

[Chris Kelley]

Here’s another one I watch very often. Just to stay refreshed. This is reverse heal and toe. I use a blend of both techniques. I reverse heal and toe like Said the Head here, but use Rudd’s footwork for everything else. I left foot brake and pass it off to the right.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Some people use the heel on the brake when the pedal spacing is less than ideal or they have small feet or they don't have the extra extension for their ankle due to seating position, flexibility, or just getting old. Heel on the brake is significantly rarer than heel on the throttle, which seems to already be somewhat rare at this point. Heel on the brake is not ideal as inputs with your heel are far less precise than the ball of your foot, and the brake is what requires precision and modulation, while the throttle is just flashed. I primarily left foot brake, so I switch foot a lot(which is what you're seeing Rudd doing.)

An old video on the sim. Switch foot happening because GT350 at Laguna.


A more recent video in the real car. No switch foot here because there is almost no braking after the shift....so nowhere for which to switch the foot. Tbh there is very little braking at Lime Rock anywhere in a <130hp car, and only one downshift on the whole track.


I need a better camera angle in the car, it was just a one off for a friend who asked me for a video since he was upsetting his Corvette downshifting in T1 and he doesn't heel toe. Like I think 80-90% of race drivers.

 

[Chris Kelley]

This is the technique I use when racing with a sequential transmission, like we’re using. So these are just some different techniques of how to get it done. I study them all. I use them all. Maybe they’ll help you guys out. I always study Sonoma because it is so busy. And there’s a lot of throttle control needed, to keep wheel spin down. I just figured I’d share these. If nothing else you can enjoy hearing a fire breathing, 900 hp Cup engine get its guts rung out. And if you’re like me, you can’t hear it enough. There’s nothing like a Cup engine screaming through the gears on a road course.

 

[Chris Kelley]

Some people use the heel on the brake when the pedal spacing is less than ideal or they have small feet or they don't have the extra extension for their ankle due to seating position, flexibility, or just getting old. Heel on the brake is significantly rarer than heel on the throttle, which seems to already be somewhat rare at this point. Heel on the brake is not ideal as inputs with your heel are far less precise than the ball of your foot, and the brake is what requires precision and modulation, while the throttle is just flashed. I primarily left foot brake, so I switch foot a lot(which is what you're seeing Rudd doing.)

An old video on the sim. Switch foot happening because GT350 at Laguna.


A more recent video in the real car. No switch foot here because there is almost no braking after the shift....so nowhere for which to switch the foot. Tbh there is very little braking at Lime Rock anywhere in a <130hp car, and only one downshift on the whole track.


I need a better camera angle in the car, it was just a one off for a friend who asked me for a video since he was upsetting his Corvette downshifting in T1 and he doesn't heel toe. Like I think 80-90% of race drivers.

Some ppl call it reverse heel toe, then some call what Said is doing toe heel. What Rudd is doing is heel toe. Just whatever part of your foot is modulating the brake. But, yeah, you can look at Rudd’s pedals and see he has them spaced to properly utilize his technique. Small pedal faces, the clutch and brake close together. He has small feet. Said is a bigger guy. Big feet, big pedal faces. More even with the spacing. Good to see someone pays as much attention to footwork as myself. I work and study footwork more than any other technique. And yeah switch foot, or passing it off. I have heard both. When I explain it most of the time Ill call it a pass off the other foot. Some may not know the terminology. So I keep it simple. But, I think everyone should study and know how to heal and toe.
The toe on the brake blipping with the heal is the superior technique. You aren’t using the big muscles in your leg to try and modulate the brake. You should be using the big muscles to apply the pressure, while the smaller muscles and twitch fibers are reserved for modulation of the brake. But it’s cool for guys to see that there are different ways of doing it. And in my opinion should know how to do them all. My preferred method is switch foot, using the heel to blip.

 

[Noob01_lmdead]

 

[Chris Kelley]

Good, Chevy is looking a lot better coming into August.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Not really looking to debate, but just so there isn't any confusion about what I'm doing in the videos above; there is no modulating of the throttle, the car isn't even in gear when the throttle is being flashed.

 

[Chris Kelley]

Not really looking to debate, but just so there isn't any confusion about what I'm doing in the videos above; there is no modulating of the throttle, the car isn't even in gear when the throttle is being flashed.

lol, I meant the brake. Modulating the brake. Of course it’s not in gear. That’s why you’re using heal toe. Why would you even confuse the two? You’re confusing me. There’s nothing to be confused about. Just a typo.lol sheesh, one track mind, eh? I wouldn’t think you have to modulate the throttle in a 100 hp car. Other than to match revs while it’s out of gear.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Yeah just didn't want anyone to look at what I was doing and be like huh lol.

At higher speeds not as much throttle modulation, which is most of Lime Rock above so you really only pedal it in my car in big bend, and west bend sometimes. The fastest laps you turn in a touch too early in west bend and get on the throttle hard, which pushes the nose out just enough to miss the spot where the curb juts out. In the right weather conditions that produce the fastest laps I'm flat from the left hander to the uphill, with a slight lift in the downhill turn. If it's hot and humid the car can go through the downhill flat but it's not fast.

NHIS, Palmer, and Thompson there are a lot of lower speed turns and the car requires a lot more care with the throttle. The car naturally has a slight oversteer tendency, but you can get it to push exiting low speed corners if you just stand on it.

 

[llNovall]

I would like to join. Some of you may have raced with me on the regular SNAIL sunday nights. I'm a spec racing guy because I suck at tuning and tinkering with my setup but this looks fun and very well organised. Unfortunately, 100% won't be able to race on the 18th of August, which is a shame because Trial Mountain is one of my favorites but only on the next race in september.

PSN ID: GTP_Worstdriver
GTPlanet ID: Worst_Driver
Car Number: 13
PS5 Platform: Yes
Car: Chevrolet Camaro ZL1

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It was my first (and last) time playing with the livery editor. I always respected people with livery skills but man its so hard and time consuming to master. Absolutely not my thing, took me 2 hours to do that and I started with a pre made livery and modified it a bit. I also tried to do the white background thing and well there I am 😂

Looking forward to race with you guys !

Welcome aboard sir. I have you noted as "Not Attending" the August event. Please be sure to confirm for the September event after the August race night is complete. Looking forward to racing with you.

 

[Bologna_Duc]

Daytona analysis. This track didn’t suit some cars. But the pp balance is starting to have an effect. Some pictures below from race 1 from the opening lap and laps 2,8,12,15,17. These aren’t high quality pics like some of you others can produce. Intention is to show the race long battle. Lap data for positions 3-6 further below. For these 4 cars, small mistakes meant the difference between challenging for position and falling back into the clutches of the cars behind.



I did not include the opening lap time. I also excluded the slowest time. fwiw this suggests the pp system is introducing parity between drivers and cars. Naturally there will likely continue to be track specific benefits for some cars/drivers. imho

Driver	PP	Average	Std Dev
@Phlano099	635	51.3	0.36
@Bologna_Duc	630	51.4	0.44
@Noob01_lmdead	633	51.4	0.52
@Nyati_Jumapil	645	51.3	0.63

*corrected phlano pp

 

[Phlano099]

Daytona analysis. This track didn’t suit some cars. But the pp balance is starting to have an effect. Some pictures below from race 1 from the opening lap and laps 2,8,12,15,17. These aren’t high quality pics like some of you others can produce. Intention is to show the race long battle. Lap data for positions 3-6 further below. For these 4 cars, small mistakes meant the difference between challenging for position and falling back into the clutches of the cars behind.

View attachment 1277431View attachment 1277432View attachment 1277433View attachment 1277434View attachment 1277435View attachment 1277436

I did not include the opening lap time. I also excluded the slowest time. fwiw this suggests the pp system is introducing parity between drivers and cars. Naturally there will likely continue to be track specific benefits for some cars/drivers. imho

Driver	PP	Average	Std Dev
@Phlano099	632	51.3	0.36
@Bologna_Duc	630	51.4	0.44
@Noob01_lmdead	633	51.4	0.52
@Nyati_Jumapil	645	51.3	0.63

Great information Rob, for the Daytona race I was at 635PP, tune was 634.98, for the next race I will be at 632...yeah...

I have a 632PP tune I have been testing and current best in a lobby is 1:59.513, S08 Afternoon, has anyone else lap times?

 

[llNovall]

Great information Rob, for the Daytona race I was at 635PP, tune was 634.98, for the next race I will be at 632...yeah...

I have a 632PP tune I have been testing and current best in a lobby is 1:59.513, S08 Afternoon, has anyone else lap times?

Late Morning, S11, Sunny and Alpine Mist

 

[Fudman420]

Daytona analysis. This track didn’t suit some cars. But the pp balance is starting to have an effect. Some pictures below from race 1 from the opening lap and laps 2,8,12,15,17. These aren’t high quality pics like some of you others can produce. Intention is to show the race long battle. Lap data for positions 3-6 further below. For these 4 cars, small mistakes meant the difference between challenging for position and falling back into the clutches of the cars behind.

View attachment 1277431View attachment 1277432View attachment 1277433View attachment 1277434View attachment 1277435View attachment 1277436

I did not include the opening lap time. I also excluded the slowest time. fwiw this suggests the pp system is introducing parity between drivers and cars. Naturally there will likely continue to be track specific benefits for some cars/drivers. imho

Driver	PP	Average	Std Dev
@Phlano099	632	51.3	0.36
@Bologna_Duc	630	51.4	0.44
@Noob01_lmdead	633	51.4	0.52
@Nyati_Jumapil	645	51.3	0.63

Personally if I had made the last race I think my data would have been ommited. I've been off the pace over a second each race. Last race it got to the point where I made a decision to get ready for my trip with my son rather than hoping 2 or 3 more pp would allow me to be competitive.
I'm glad to see that things have gotten closer but the season is half way over already.
My suggestion that might allow for those further down the field to be closer sooner would be a preseason time trial and custom starting pp for each driver.

 

[llNovall]

Personally if I had made the last race I think my data would have been ommited. I've been off the pace over a second each race. Last race it got to the point where I made a decision to get ready for my trip with my son rather than hoping 2 or 3 more pp would allow me to be competitive.
I'm glad to see that things have gotten closer but the season is half way over already.
My suggestion that might allow for those further down the field to be closer sooner would be a preseason time trial and custom starting pp for each driver.

Thats the way I used to do it, however, getting all the time trial data compiled, compared, and specs issued is very time consuming, and its hard to gauge how hard each driver pushes during the time trial. Some run 3-5 laps and thats what they submit, and then others run 20 and have a much better indication of actual pace.

As Duc mentioned, the results are creating parity. It is very difficult to take 8 different cars of differing strengths, 20 different drivers of different skills, and tracks that suite differently to all line up all of the time, especially at the bookends. While certain cars and drivers were strong at the beginning, they have paid heavily for it. Use me as an example... highly competitive the first 3 events, 10pp hit against my regs, and was 2-3 seconds off the pace at Daytona. That was extreme, but I did expect it at Daytona. Now, getting back to the technical courses, I'm hoping to just hold strong in the 5-7 poisitions in the hope that some of the remaining fast guys get handicapped enough to bring them into my pace again for a showdown at the end.
And, consistency is king.

With limited time, this is the way I had to go about it. Maybe for our next season, I can consider doing a pre-season time trial to get everyone set as close to even as possible. But, I will need a high level of help, cooperation, and commitment to implement this for the next season. Just do not have the time nor the interest, for that matter, that I used to be able to afford. I hope you get backmon track with us to finish out the season.

 

[Fudman420]

Thats the way I used to do it, however, getting all the time trial data compiled, compared, and specs issued is very time consuming, and its hard to gauge how hard each driver pushes during the time trial. Some run 3-5 laps and thats what they submit, and then others run 20 and have a much better indication of actual pace.

As Duc mentioned, the results are creating parity. It is very difficult to take 8 different cars of differing strengths, 20 different drivers of different skills, and tracks that suite differently to all line up all of the time, especially at the bookends. While certain cars and drivers were strong at the beginning, they have paid heavily for it. Use me as an example... highly competitive the first 3 events, 10pp hit against my regs, and was 2-3 seconds off the pace at Daytona. That was extreme, but I did expect it at Daytona. Now, getting back to the technical courses, I'm hoping to just hold strong in the 5-7 poisitions in the hope that some of the remaining fast guys get handicapped enough to bring them into my pace again for a showdown at the end.
And, consistency is king.

With limited time, this is the way I had to go about it. Maybe for our next season, I can consider doing a pre-season time trial to get everyone set as close to even as possible. But, I will need a high level of help, cooperation, and commitment to implement this for the next season. Just do not have the time nor the interest, for that matter, that I used to be able to afford. I hope you get backmon track with us to finish out the season.

I completely understand the extra effort involved in setting up a series that way. It takes a big commitment from not only you but everyone involved.
In the couple series I've ran I might have gotten 1 win in a race at autopolis. I'm not looking to win, I'd just like to be able to race with folks. My experience so far in the series is that I'm so far off the pace I might get 5 laps with people at the start but by the end I'm just running by myself. On the reverse grid I feel like I'm in an alpha tauri and I just need to get outta the way before I'm in the way.
I know it's just a skill gap that's tough to overcome. Pretty sure most series I was on a medium tire while the fast guys ran hards.

 

[Bologna_Duc]

I have a 632PP tune I have been testing and current best in a lobby is 1:59.513, S08 Afternoon, has anyone else lap times?

I have put in some 59.3s so far after changing back to Atlanta suspension. No other tuning changes yet. I see from psn chat @CodeRedR51 (fka Turbo) is killing it. Again.

 

[Fudman420]

Practice lobby open for a bit.

Closed

 

[llNovall]

Been a busy couple of summer weeks. Scoring is complete from Daytona along with BOP updated and conditions noted in the heading of 1st post. Post race report and event details post to be out beginning of this week. Apologies for the delay....that thing called life.

 

[Phlano099]

Been a busy couple of summer weeks. Scoring is complete from Daytona along with BOP updated and conditions noted in the heading of 1st post. Post race report and event details post to be out beginning of this week. Apologies for the delay....that thing called life.

 

[Chris Kelley]

https://www.ricmotech.com/assets/images/driver-position/Driver-Position.pdf

If anyone is still interested in racing ergonomics, I went and found what I used to first set up my rig. I thought maybe the angles I explained may be a little confusing. This uses measurements and is really easy to understand. It even helps out with monitor angle and depth perception. So, it could be something to give you guys an edge out there.