Congressman Ron Paul

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The real question is: If you only vote for the same old everday politician and he wins, by more than one vote, is it wasted more than voting for someone who isn't likely to win, but shows that you support a change in the norm? Which is the more wasted vote?

If everyone only votes for the most electable candidate then there will never be change in our government.

I beg to differ. Regan was very electable and changed a lot! But I understand your general point.

Vote for whatever candidate holds the same ideals as you do, even if they are only going to get a small part of the vote. There is no reason to settle for someone you do not agree with, that defeats the point of voting. During the Michigan governor elections last year I voted for Greg Creswell, a Libertarian who got 1% of the votes...but I agreed with what he was saying and therefore voted for him.

And if that's how you choose to use your vote that's your right. The next president we elect will have some very major choices to make. Specifically about national security, healthcare and taxes. If I vote for the person I KNOW can't win, I quite literally enable the opposing party to win. This is what happen the first time Clinton was elected. Some of the independents and republicans voted for Ross Perot instead of Bush while the majority of Democrats voted for Clinton. That split the vote on the republican side and pretty much ensured a democratic victory.

Now, in the primary that's not quite as big a factor. If Ron Paul was the Republican nominee I'd vote for him over anyone on the democratic side. But, while his ideals are excellent(for the most part), his accusations of an "illegal" war and other things turn me off from him.
 
If you continue to vote for a candidate you don't fully agree with but just because they align themselves with a particular party nothing will ever change. As far as I'm concern Republicans and Democrats have both done their fare share to mess up the country and it's never going to change if we keep voting for someone because they align themselves with X political party.

I'll admit I'm more conservative then liberal in many things but I would have no problem voting for a liberal if they had some good ideas.
 
I beg to differ. Regan was very electable and changed a lot! But I understand your general point.



And if that's how you choose to use your vote that's your right. The next president we elect will have some very major choices to make. Specifically about national security, healthcare and taxes. If I vote for the person I KNOW can't win, I quite literally enable the opposing party to win. This is what happen the first time Clinton was elected. Some of the independents and republicans voted for Ross Perot instead of Bush while the majority of Democrats voted for Clinton. That split the vote on the republican side and pretty much ensured a democratic victory.

Now, in the primary that's not quite as big a factor. If Ron Paul was the Republican nominee I'd vote for him over anyone on the democratic side. But, while his ideals are excellent(for the most part), his accusations of an "illegal" war and other things turn me off from him.

Then wouldn't you rather help Ron Paul get the nomination instead of splitting the vote between the Democrats, Imperialists, and Republicans?
 
Then wouldn't you rather help Ron Paul get the nomination instead of splitting the vote between the Democrats, Imperialists, and Republicans?

Sorry to be a jerk. But barring a miracle of God, he's not getting the nomination. And if he runs independent, then he's literally giving the presidency to the democrats.


JoeyD, again you make some good points andI agree. But I don't think that Fred Thompson is the "average" republican.
 
He's not running independent. By the same token, however, it will be a miracle (of the devil, perhaps) if a pro-war candidate wins the general election.
 
I beg to differ. Regan was very electable and changed a lot! But I understand your general point.
He also wasn't an everyday politician. Ever notice that Republicans today, even after having the majority for years, say the party needs to get back to the days of Reagan? Nothing was holding them back for years and all they did was talk about it. The front runners in this primary are far from being like that.
 
If you can't win the debate, lob personal attacks.





This is the guy you want to be president of The United States? 👎
 
Are you serious? It's no personal attack, it's the truth. There is no debate when one party suppresses the opposition.

That is the guy I want to be President of The United States. 👍
 
Well, Bill looked like a total douche with an agenda. Lets be honest, Bill wanted to corner Ron on issues that he knows that the Fox News base wouldn't agree with... Not that it really matters really, as Ron Paul is rarely discussed on there. Ron clearly won that debate simply because he kept his cool, didn't go off the cuff (as Bill normally does), and told the simple truth.

...Poking fun at him (and Glenn Beck) afterwards is whats going to happen. Welcome to the grown-up world where people talk about one another. Is this really any worse than what Clinton or Obama say about each other, much less, President Bush?

===

I'm going to support Congressman Paul for as long as possible, and even if he doesn't win the nomination, at the very least he started a discussion here in the US. Is the Republican Party the same party that everyone thinks it is? Are these current policies hurting or helping the United States? What should be our first priority; Domestic or International issues?

If Congressman Paul doesn't get the nomination, I'll likely back Guliani (again). But as I've told many people before, if Romney or Thompson (or any other candidate besides McCain) gets the nod, I'm voting Democrat. I guarantee it.
 


Trust in Luskin.

Listen to what Kudlow-- the host with the annoying voice-- says. Anybody wondering why Ron Paul got the least amount of time and questions at the CNBC debate? Sure, the economy would stabilize, runaway inflation would end, and wealth would flow back into the country, but (heaven forbid!) most of the hacks on CNBC would be out of a job. :lol:
 
Ron Paul calls Glenn Beck a "demagogue". On what basis does he deserve to be called "demagogue"? The only pandering I see is done by Ron Paul.
 
Well, Bill looked like a total douche with an agenda. Lets be honest, Bill wanted to corner Ron on issues that he knows that the Fox News base wouldn't agree with... Not that it really matters really, as Ron Paul is rarely discussed on there.

You fail.

















I could keep going, but I think I made my point.

Please, keep going with your arrogant views about Fox News, I dare you.
 
You fail.

Come on, pay attention for once. I was a religious Fox News viewer until I actually spent more time reading newspapers and books about what the hell is going on in our world... They've got an agenda, there isn't any bones about it (this is not saying that CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, etc are any better), and they definitely don't want Ron Paul to win. With as much ass-kissing they do to Rudy and Romney, its a surprise they even have him on... Particularly when they accuse his followers of riging post-debate polls, certain hosts rail on his followers on their radio shows *cough*Sean Hanity*cough*, etc.

Furthermore, considering that Fox News is a 24 HR news network, eight clips that are a few minutes long means absolutely nothing. Sure, hes showed up on Red Eye (probably the best show on there right now, sadly) and the weekend edition of The Big Story, but so what?

The internet is the only place where some small amount of truth gets out anymore... Thank God for Digg.com and their quasi-support of Ron Paul...
 
Furthermore, considering that Fox News is a 24 HR news network, eight clips that are a few minutes long means absolutely nothing.

Of course, because there are more important issues in the world to report on than Ron Paul.
 
Are you saying the MSM censors Ron Paul? I don't feel like typing in 'CNN Ron Paul' or 'MSNBC Ron Paul' into You Tube.
 
Fox news... reporting news? Don't make me laugh.

Fox's poltical news people, O'Rielly and the such, just like to cause problems. They interrupt everyone, they basically BS and BS somemore, and when called on it, change the subject. They stick words in people's mouths, try to goad certain phrases to be taken out of context.

Much like you Fro, so I can see why you like them. Go back to the PS3 area instead of spamming "meaningful" youtube clips from a highly biased source with an agenda.
 
Much like you Fro, so I can see why you like them.

Awesome!

Go back to the PS3 area instead of spamming "meaningful" youtube clips from a highly biased source with an agenda.

Much like Ron Paul, you begin personal attacks when you lose the debate. Ron Paul doesn't have to appear on the so called "biased" Fox News, no one is forcing him.
 
Awesome!



Much like Ron Paul, you begin personal attacks when you lose the debate. Ron Paul doesn't have to appear on the so called "biased" Fox News, no one is forcing him.

No, its more that I feel you aren't contributing anything meaningful. Its not a personal attack, its a comment on how you "debate." You spam "facts," then discuss them very little, and then quote people and try to basically make them react with shock.

A personal attack would be calling you a Daft Fox Fanboy that has been brainwashed by horrible media.

What I am saying is you just like to pull information from one heavily biased source. And then take stuff out of context, much like Fox's Political people do, and use said out of context bits to jam words into peoples' mouths.

Virtually every one of your posts regarding Ron Paul has consisted of questioning his intelligence, his wisdom, his awareness of the world, and so on. Most of them being one liners.

You don't bring anything to topics except stuff to try to incite trouble, not debate, because you don't debate, you just post more youtube clips, etc. And thats why I told you to go back to the PS3 section, because thats a fantasy land.
 
Must I write a book in every post?

You go on and on about Fox News being "biased", yet I show eight examples where Ron Paul has free reign on Fox News. His topics, his words, no censoring. I'm sorry that you feel that when Ron Paul gets challenged on what he says that you see it as some sort of right-wing propaganda that only Fox News can create. No, it's not, it's called journalism. Attacks on Fox News for being propaganda are flat out incorrect. There are more Liberals and free-thinkers on Fox News than any other news outlet. Continuously inviting Ron Paul back to appear on Fox News is a prime example.

So, what do I have? I state my opinion (not in novel form, mind you) and I show proof and fact, yet I get blasted out of the water for not being able to bring anything to the table. Much like Ron Paul, if you challenge anything, you will be chastised.
 
Really? I mean, really?

You're going to have to step outside of the Fox News bubble in order to understand that they are in fact a completely biased source and by no means is "fair and balanced" like they tend to claim over and over. The only thing that makes them "balanced" is the fact that they tow the Bush line of ignorance while other channels are so far to the left that they're out of the field (MSNBC, I'm looking at you!).

By no means do we wish to think anything less of you, but you really need to consider more things other than what Fox News pushes out. I was in exactly the same position you were in just a few years ago, but its amazing what you can find by actually going out and doing some research for yourself (God forbid anyone reads anymore) and deciding on subjects for yourself. That way, the bias comes through quite clearly, no matter what you look at. When they're throwing low-balls at the Corporate-Sponsored candidates like Rudy and Romney and then throwing fast balls at Paul all while not letting him answer the question is completely wrong. Any journalist knows that. So while Fox News may in fact be "inviting" him over to chat, they put him on the low-ratings weekend shows, or the general no-watch late-night shows like Red Eye (still the best show on that channel). Thats fair?

...When you come into a thread full of Ron Paul supporters and generally well-informed and well-read members of the GOP, did you think that we weren't going to debate this with you? All I ask is that you get out there and actually decide some things for yourself for once. Pick up a book on whats going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, learn about Iran and Syria... Read up on the history of what the CIA has done in the Middle East and South America, how the problems we create blow right back in our faces...

Its a big, scary, evil, nasty world out there. Don't let Fox News filter that out for you.
 
Absolutely, YSSMAN. I will continue to think for myself, thank you.

What was the point of this reply? This is what we are talking about...

I watched all those clips, again. And in most of them, the Fox people try to make very broad questions that don't have a Yes or No answer into Yes or No questions.

I'd would like asking "Do you think the point of life is to accomplish some great goal?" When the answer needs some explanation, some defining of what a goal is, and so on. But the Fox guys interrupt this, and just ask the question again saying that Ron Paul, or anyone else generally, is avoiding the issue.
 
Are you saying the MSM censors Ron Paul? I don't feel like typing in 'CNN Ron Paul' or 'MSNBC Ron Paul' into You Tube.

Early on, Fox was censoring Ron Paul like the plague. They didn't even include him in the Iowa Straw Poll results. They (sup, Hannity/everyone) are or were at least trying to discredit him for a while. "OMG, They hax0rzd teh txt messagiz!" The 5 million bucks raised changed that, though.

More importantly, I'm saying that they often neglect issues which are very important-- especially relative to the likes of Paris Hilton and that lot. When they do touch on things, it is also often one-sided.

Ron Paul doesn't have to appear on the so called "biased" Fox News, no one is forcing him.

It would behoove any credible news organization to have all of these representatives of different ideas and philosophies appear on their program, though. Wouldn't they be biased otherwise? Many news organizations-- Fox, especially-- have mutated from news to opinion, pure punditry, and demagoguery. Even GTPlanet would be very similar if the mod squad was replaced with trolls and spambots. Of course people are going to question news-television's integrity if they don't take the bait. It's kind of sad that Comedy Central does more relevant TV-journalism than Headline News.
 
All American news networks are horribly biased. I just watch BBC World News tonight and find out other things going on in the world outside the conflict in the middle east. It's biased as well but at least they touch on more topics.

Anyways my dad watches Fox News like his life depended on it as even he barely knows anything about Ron Paul which leads me to believe he doesn't get a whole lot of press time on that station.
 
If you can't win the debate, lob personal attacks.

This is the guy you want to be president of The United States? 👎
Ron Paul calls Glenn Beck a "demagogue". On what basis does he deserve to be called "demagogue"? The only pandering I see is done by Ron Paul.
dictionary.com
dem·a·gogue /ˈdɛməˌgɒg, -ˌgɔg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dem-uh-gog, -gawg] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -gogued, -gogu·ing.

–noun 1. a person, esp. an orator or political leader, who gains power and popularity by arousing the emotions, passions, and prejudices of the people.
That just defined every single political commentator and talk show host, so yes, Glenn Beck is a demagogue by definition. So is Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, Matthews, Oprah, Jerry Springer, Larry King, etc.


Now, on to this sudden Fox News thing.

First, You Tubing Ron Paul gives unbalanced results because he has the largest You Tube channel of any of the political candidates. So, posting repeated You Tube clips of him on Fox News proves nothing other than Ron Paul does a good job of making sure that his information is available.

I cannot say how much air time he gets compared to other candidates, but judging by the fact that my in-laws are involved in politics and only one of them knew who he is says something. No one in my family knows who he is, even after I talk about him. Give them a week and they forget his name. I would think that if he was mentioned as often as Giuliani, Thompson, and Romney they wouldn't forget his name.



Now, on to the bigger Fox News bias issue. *sigh* Why do I have to constantly do this?

What are you (you being anyone calling them biased) judging that on? Programming after 7:00 PM? If so then you have judged a station based on roughly 4-5 hours of a 24 hour day. Try watching their normal news reports. They are fairly balanced there. But their prime time programming is where the money is, so that is where every news station sticks their commentary shows. Bill O'Reilly fires up his supporters and enrages his opposers. That means great ratings. Chris Matthews does the same for MSNBC and Glenn Beck does it for Headline News.

Every station is reporting mainly facts in their actual news segments, but their commentary shows are just that, commentary. Do you trash a newspaper for their editorials? No, because they represent one person's opinion, not the paper. The same goes for commentary news shows.

The fact is that if you don't watch a news station in prime time you will get mostly the same stories. I can tell you right now that a large portion of stories reported on all the news stations are nearly word for word the same because they are AP stories, which are then reported on air. I know because I have transcribed them. After the first story you can save a template and make minor adjustments for every other station.

The only time you begin to have bias show through is when you have interviews. Now, removing every commentary show interview posted so far and then you are left with Ron Paul being interviewed by Bill Hemmer and a very attractive anchor woman who lets him say what he wants and even takes up two full segments to get in as many questions from viewers as possible. She didn't interrupt and she let him answer in his own way.

Now many times you will see interviews where some bias on the part of the reporter shows through. The person will be given snowball questions or constantly asked how they respond to their critics, depending on which way the bias goes.


To sum up: All news stations' news reporting is roughly 90% equal and their commentary shows are, just that, commentary. If you are watching any of these stations after 7:00 you are not watching news. You cannot judge the quality of the news from any one station by their commentary shows.
 
Of course, FK. But, when a news network is >50% commentary, it is a commentary network, not a news station.

My point is that there are very few shows left where the host is actually moderating. There's always a side being played by the network itself.
 
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