Connecticut School Shooting Dec 14th 2012

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terminator363
@OP

Seriously? Again how many "shootings" have we had over the past months?

I think the stats was 31 school shootings since Columbine in the US and only 15 world wide combined.

What's more interesting is north America is basically the only place that has self help books, an insane amount of prescription depression pills (I think it was like 70% of Americans), and various other self hate problems.

Piers Morgan's show said there was something like 100k gun shops and only 40k grocery stores in the US. Overall there is definitely a lot of wrong priorities going on in the US.
 
In germany was a incident with a knife and an axe.

He couldn't kill a lot, because schools have alarms that are rang in such cases and doors closed.

You can't stab someone though a door. Shooting through works though.

In my area of the U.K there is next to no gun crime, but the internal emergency doors in schools that i've been inside of here are still heavy-gauge and have bullet-resistant panels in them. I'd be very surprised if the emergency doors in schools in other countries didn't have the same. So gun or knife you'd be out of luck (excluding taking shots from outside or smashing a window and climbing in).

Also I am pretty sure a lot of people would even willing risk their life if you see a guy stabing 5 year old children

...And sadly they'd probably die trying to stop him. I've had self-defense training in disarming people carrying both guns and knives from an experienced trainer, and from what I know (I got 'stabbed' with the rubber knife many more times than I got shot by the BB gun) i'd much rather disarm someone with a gun than a knife if I was close enough.

The solution isn't more guns, or less guns, or different guns. The solution is isolating and stopping the problem at the source (the person themself - and I don't mean by killing them).
 
Obviously this is massively surprising to everyone. If you saw this coming, you're some king of clairvoyant prophet. Who shoots up an elementary school. There is absolutely no way that this is not surprising.

I for one was not surprised by this at all. I've been telling my friends and anyone who would listen for years that America has reached a tipping point and they are sliding towards the abyss and this is just one small sign. If you think this is bad, and it is, this is nothing compared to what is coming in the near future. I guarantee there are going to be bigger and bigger slaughters, on a scale you could not have imagined just 20 years ago. 10 years from now I bet this does not make a the top ten of worst school shootings or mass murders.

It's sick and twisted, but with a tiny minority of the population, this is now the accepted way to end your life, to take out your frustrations, your anger, to lash back at people or society for all the wrongs they have done to you. I guarantee you that today there is more than one kid or young adult watching this news coverage and saying to himself, "Wait till they see what I can do".

The guns aren't the problem. The society is sick and guns are just the chosen vehicle of expression. The guns are the symptom and not the disease. Most of the debate will focus on gun control because it's just too difficult, too scary to admit that the society you created is producing some very sick and twisted individuals. And the problem is so massive, so daunting, you just cannot face it yet.
 
Remember, Hitler outlawed guns when he came in power in Nazi Germany. I see your point though.

Precisely. Outlaw guns and only the government and people willing to become criminals by acquiring them illegally will have guns. What would save the people from government takeover? I believe that is what the Second Amendment states. Times have changed, but law abiding citizens still deserve the rights to protect themselves however they see fit.

Imagine a country where everyone has access to arms, no one is going to want to shoot up a school if he knows he could get killed by anyone. I think that in Switzerland, everyone is taught how to use a gun, and their gun laws are pretty lenient, and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Also, I don't think that administering mental health checks will really do anything to stop these shootings from happening. These are people who could be absolutely fine mentally, pass their exam, and either gradually go crazy, or decide to use their gun in the wrong way for whatever reason. Stupid, cruel, but sane. The Chinese man who stabbed the children in school was insane, James Holmes wasn't.
 
Unfortunately, I think it's more of an issue that there's a sheer number of rotten, messed up people, than number of accessible guns. That's all I'm saying, I'm not going into that argument. I'm just saying I'm really worried about the number of rotten people in the world, and America. It's worse than I ever remember too. Ordinary people are becoming rotten. Three times this past week I saw flat-out fist fights while I was Christmas shopping! Plus I've seen more road rage this month than I can think of recently. It's not just the crazies getting access to guns, it's the overall moral and ethical base of people these days. How far is someone who punches a stranger in the face over a spot in line at Walmart from taking their rage out on other complete strangers? Whatever, just thinking here. I truly feel aweful for those kids and their families. My heart is in my stomach.
 
RIP to all those innocent victims, many of them so young. It is absolutely an monstrous act we witnessed today. My thoughts are with the victims, their families, also the community that deals with this, firsthand. I can not begin to imagine the scene the members of the authorities witnessed at the school.
So is that why in Japan, a country with very strict gun laws, they only had eleven gun related homicides last year and two the year before that? That's more children killed in this one incident than all the people killed by guns in the whole of Japan in two years.
It's cultural. We never had civilians carrying firearms, or defending homes with them.

I've always said that gun control works beautifully in my country. After living in the States for something like twenty years, I can safely say that gun ban is as realistic as inventing a time machine to stop crimes from happening before they happen.

Simply, there are too many Americans who are capable of manufacturing firearms & ammo in their garage, so to speak. Not to mention millions of firearms in the country that the authorities will never recover, not in their dreams.

In Japan, gun is banned, and only outlaws have guns. This works perfectly. If you are just a joe-blow(or average-kenichi, whatever), only guns you'll ever encounter will be on a hip of police officers. Mafia has guns, but being victimized, or even witnessing gun crimes are extremely rare.

In the U.S., this "only outlaws would have guns" has a whole another meaning. You can expect it to be a serious threat to civilians, because unlike in Japan, firearms has been accessible to civilians since the creation of this nation. Confiscating all the guns in this country is simply not possible.
The killing wasn't stopped by a civilian with a gun in any of those cases.
Most of the mass shootings in the States takes place in area where guns are not allowed.
And now the debate over gun control is raised again...
I don't now about your town, but sports radio in my town has turned into an anti-gun propaganda machine here in Portland. I heard one of my favorite sportswriters claim that Second Amendment is outdated, we should take away guns, but he's OK if I kept a handgun at home. A truly ignorant person on the subject who should stick with stories related to sports. The crime committed today, it would have required just one handgun.
The major problem is not guns nor violent video games, neither gun control nor a militaristic attitude, but mostly how our society deals with and represses mental problems. People do not talk about their problems for fear of what others think of them, and in turn, how their place and stature in a smaller society or circle is perceived. On rare occasions, this largely ego-protective attitude permits inferiority complexes to dangerously manifest themselves as superiority complexes with no regard for others.

But being the free society that we are, we can't just lock up everybody who's ever had a naughty thought. We also can't allow the constant monitoring of free individuals' behavior, and attempt to fend off trouble that has been hastily misdiagnosed. I think that only tolerance and mental help for people, without the shame and labelling, without both the back talk, rumors, and whispers are only true way out of becoming a society that is confident in seeking help and returning it in kind.
👍

On my drive home, there was this lady who called in with a touching message. She asked that we be less-selfish, be nicer to others, so we don't force these people with problems to snap & act out on these horrific violence.

While I think that's as realistic as banning guns in the States, I personally believe in treating people with respect, and making them feel better. Things like that, also how we handle members of our society going through extreme mental stress, or problems, and how we treat them, those things can only help.

As far as realistic gun control go, I think anyone with firearms needs to review who have, or can gain access to their firearms. Again, by itself, not an answer to stop gun crimes, but I think it's a no-brainer that can make an illegal access to firearms much harder.

I've listed just couple of things that popped into my head, but there are many more steps that we can take to protect both the freedom to own & carry firearms in the U.S., but also try to put a stop on this type of tragedy.
 
And now the debate over gun control is raised again...

Unfortunately so Slash. Obviously raised by those who do not have a clue. They need to get off their high horse and quit whining and bitching everytime something concerning a gun happens. Bitch about gun control huh ? Why not bitch about the mental health system of this country and it's citizens first ? The same type of citizens who performed this atrocity today. Go figure, the gun made them do it ... not !!! Get real, and get over the gun control thing ..... ok ?

Helluva Christmas present huh ? Instead of parents enjoying watching their children on Christmas day opening gifts ... now they get to spend Christmas Day at their childs grave site. Nice, how nice (shakes head in disbelief of this tragedy). Thoughts and prayers go out to all involved. Sad day indeed.

To anyone who is a parent here at GTP .... Tonight, give your kids a hug, an extra tight hug. Tell them how much you love them and what they mean to you. Do this, because tonight, unfortunately, there are 20 families who will not get this opportunity to do so.

R.I.P Little Angels
 
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...And sadly they'd probably die trying to stop him. I've had self-defense training in disarming people carrying both guns and knives from an experienced trainer, and from what I know (I got 'stabbed' with the rubber knife many more times than I got shot by the BB gun) i'd much rather disarm someone with a gun than a knife if I was close enough.

Don't you think there is a quite a big difference between act of stabbing and pulling a trigger?

What do you think is easier? And how often do mass stabbings occur in relation to mass shootings with high amount of victims?

EDIT: Last I checked we're on internet forum, in opinions & current events section, in a thread about mass shooting. I think it is logical that topic of gun control is appropriate to discuss here.
 
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics...55307307791&action=collapse_widget&id=3284012

Above you have a very interesting study about last 61 mass shootings in USA.

The killing wasn't stopped by a civilian with a gun in any of those cases.

The Mother Jones survey is laughable.

A Concealed Carry Permit is not an obligation to put one's life on the line for other people. Neither is ownership of a gun.

Any CCW holder with any sense knows that it's best to run away from gunfire rather than toward it.

Most shootings occur in "Gun Free Zones" where a law abiding citizen is prohibited by law to carry their gun.

There are between 1.5 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually. Notice how Mother Jones glosses over (ignores) that.

I think you are wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

Columbine Shooters used explosives.

James Holmes had explosives.

Explosives can be equally deadly or more deadly than a firearm. Any qualified individual can attest to this. Trying to argue against this is ridiculous.

propaganda started by the gun lobby. And seeing how many always come up with that, leaves me "???"

What's the best solution to gun violence.

More guns. Seems logical :S

In many ways, yes.

While I also am attracted to guns. They should not be available to everyone. And while here were no AR used, explain the logic why military grade weaponary should be in hands of civilians living in a country at peace?
You fear the invasion of King George? He's dead.

/Rant

I don't think you understand what "military grade weaponry" is...

As Danoff said...

1) It is a human right
2) It is the last resort against tyranny (2nd Amendment)
3) It is defense against other beings who wish to violate your human rights.


YOu don't need to outright ban weapons, just make it harder to get by, the typical given exemple of buy a car, open an account,... get a gun for free mentality needs to stop.

Why? How many people commit acts of murder with firearms they received from buying a car or opening some sort of account?

If you two want to try to argue against guns, there's a thread for that.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33891

Your points have been made dozens of times on this site. Each time they have been thoroughly debunked. I'm going to stop my participation of gun control in this thread here. If you wish to continue, go to the other thread and we can have this dance again.
 
Hey, guys. You're all missing the most important point.

Video games are to blame, not guns. Video games kill people, and Mass Effect killed those kids.
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Cue yet another misguided video game witch hunt... *sigh*
 
Last I checked we're on internet forum, in opinions & current events section, in a thread about mass shooting. I think it is logical that topic of gun control is appropriate to discuss here.

Indeed you can do so. But take it to this thread .... not in this one !!!
Get it ? Got it ? Good !!!
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

Columbine Shooters used explosives.

James Holmes had explosives.

Explosives can be equally deadly or more deadly than a firearm. Any qualified individual can attest to this. Trying to argue against this is ridiculous.

Ok , first of all I think you missed the fact I wrote about incidents in last 10 years. Something that happened in 1927 (!) and 1995 doesn't exactly qualify.

And you know how many deaths caused explosives in Columbine and Aurora? Zero. With 4 to 6 injured people.

How many dead and injured people by guns in those two awful attacks? 101.
 
Don't you think there is a quite a big difference between act of stabbing and pulling a trigger?

Pulling a trigger is easier, but effort required isn't relevant here. The main kicker is that you can grab hold of and direct a gun away from you as it only has one 'sharp point' - you can then pull the trigger or hit the magazine release if you really need to. Once the gun has no feed and is empty, it isn't a threat anymore.

A knife is much harder to control, direct and get a grip of. The person holding the knife doesn't need to react and pull anything to hurt you, he could flail madly at you and still cut you to slithers. The knife is always dangerous, there is no reasonable way to stop it from being sharp.

And how often do mass stabbings occur in relation to mass shootings with high amount of victims?

Guns are available almost anywhere and are the quickest, easiest way to kill lots of people. That's why guns are typically chosen in mass murders. That doesn't change the fact that if somebody wanted to, they could easily kill a lot of people with a knife, or an axe, or a chainsaw, or whatever else.

Last I checked we're on internet forum, in opinions & current events section, in a thread about mass shooting. I think it is logical that topic of gun control is appropriate to discuss here.

Gun control? There's a thread for that!

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33891
 
I for one was not surprised by this at all. I've been telling my friends and anyone who would listen for years that America has reached a tipping point and they are sliding towards the abyss and this is just one small sign. If you think this is bad, and it is, this is nothing compared to what is coming in the near future. I guarantee there are going to be bigger and bigger slaughters, on a scale you could not have imagined just 20 years ago. 10 years from now I bet this does not make a the top ten of worst school shootings or mass murders.
How about not using this shooting as a way to take a pot shot about how America will fall into school shootings & mass murders instead.

They have names for people like you & they spew their garbage on street corners.
The Mother Jones survey is laughable.

A Concealed Carry Permit is not an obligation to put one's life on the line for other people. Neither is ownership of a gun.

Any CCW holder with any sense knows that it's best to run away from gunfire rather than toward it.

Most shootings occur in "Gun Free Zones" where a law abiding citizen is prohibited by law to carry their gun.

There are between 1.5 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually. Notice how Mother Jones glosses over (ignores) that.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't CCW holders also taught that if you raise your gun to aid in the help of someone else, you'd better be prepared for the consequences that follow? I know when my friend had to renew his, the instructor highly discouraged using your weapon to help someone else unless you too, were going to be able to prove you were defending yourself as well.
 
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TL;DR: Are there a lot of stores that sell or are allowed to sell guns? Yes. But more gun shops than supermarkets? No.

Anyone who believes anything that comes out of Piers Morgans mouth is, to put it nicely, easily misled.

Posters, PLEASE do your own research before posting over in the Gun thread! :dopey:
 
Hey, guys. You're all missing the most important point.


Cue yet another misguided video game witch hunt... *sigh*

Can i be really nooby and ask why mass effect is being blamed?


What i really don't understand is why these people feel the need to kill dozens of others before committing suicide. If your going to do it why take innocent people with you, i'd be lying if i said i hadn't thought about it before (more than once) but i have never thought to myself 'hmm yeah lets kill others while I'm at it'.

Where the 🤬 do these people get off!
 
Anyone who believes anything that comes out of Piers Morgans mouth is, to put it nicely, easily misled.

Posters, PLEASE do your own research before posting over in the Gun thread! :dopey:

Sorry, you hadn't yet posted that when I started drafting my post.
 
Joey D
Those who think this can't be done with anything other than a gun did hear about the news from China right? A guy knifed/slashed 22 people this morning at an elementary school.

From reddit:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-73692879/

Ya this is like the number one argument as it's basically identical story on the same day only with a knife. However last I heard the actual death toll was far less. I think knifing that many kids is even more ****ed up tho since you have to get right into someone's face to stab them.
 
I think the stats was 31 school shootings since Columbine in the US and only 15 world wide combined.

What's more interesting is north America is basically the only place that has self help books, an insane amount of prescription depression pills (I think it was like 70% of Americans), and various other self hate problems.

Gun laws shouldn't change. People should change.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't CCW holders also taught that if you raise your gun to aid in the help of someone else, you'd better be prepared for the consequences that follow? I know when my friend had to renew his, the instructor highly discouraged using your weapon to help someone else unless you too, were going to be able to prove you were defending yourself as well.

You are correct. As a CCW holder myself, I too was put through the mill as to never pull your gun unless it involves you, and only you or your immediate family (situation citation ... gray area, but legal). If the situation does happen to arise where you need to pull your gun, you better be 100% clear cut positive that your life was in danger and that there was no alternative way (what-so-ever) out of the given situation. You really have to cover your tail when you pull, or the consequences will occur.
 
I can't even get myself to click on that link. My heart goes out to the kids & their families over there as well. Two such heinous crimes on the same day? I find it hard to believe how some can turn this into a gun ban argument.

How does one execute bunch of kids, with guns, or with knives? Especially when there is no logical reason to? I'm not familiar with the details of the attack in China, but I can't believe there was any other cause there than a madman attacking classroom full of innocent children. It's just sickening.
 
Can i be really nooby and ask why mass effect is being blamed?
The shooter's brother, Ryan, who was originally believed to have been the shooter, liked Mass Effect on Facebook. 2+2 = potato and therefore thanks to FOX News (from what I hear, I believe they were the ones who made this claim) Mass Effect drives people to murder children.

Yay for the human race?

Saw a nice topical comment about this that sums up my thoughts on /r/masseffect:
"Nobody individually. But people are in at least this way the opposite of Geth - in groups, they get stupider." (in reply to someone refusing to believe people can be this dumb)

Favorite comment was "Hey guys, the killer ate waffles this morning, let's ban waffles."
I preferred the comment about roundhousing a gran because Tekken and Mass Effect making them beat one out to blue aliens.
 
Israel's teachers carry guns to protect children in the event of an intruder attack at a school. Therefore, should American teachers have them as well?
 
terminator363
Gun laws shouldn't change. People should change.
This is by far the bigger issue. I could literally have nukes at my house and as long as I am mentally stable it really doesn't matter. These guns don't load themselves with hollow point rounds and pull their own triggers. Someone thought about it probably for years till one day they finally talked themselves into it being the right thing to do. The reason why that thinking process even starts is the actual issue.

a6m5
I can't even get myself to click on that link. My heart goes out to the kids & their families over there as well. Two such heinous crimes on the same day? I find it hard to believe how some can turn this into a gun ban argument.

How does one execute bunch of kids, with guns, or with knives? Especially when there is no logical reason to? I'm not familiar with the details of the attack in China, but I can't believe there was any other cause there than a madman attacking classroom full of innocent children. It's just sickening.

I really wish these shooter didn't always kill themselves because that is a really good question to ask them. I kinda get college or high school shootings since that's a big part of someone's life and they have hate towards it but this little kids one is strange. What could they possibly of done to this guy? Only thing I could think of is since his mom was a teacher at the school maybe she treated the kids a lot nicer than she eve treated him and he grew to hate her as well as the kids. Only connection I can see at the moment.
 
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