Conservatism
- Thread starter HenrySwanson
- 1,596 comments
- 101,441 views
- 29,981
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Okay @LeMansAid I get your point.
So I've repeatedly derided modern American conservatism as mental illness and now here we have conservatives at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) cheering on a far-right Hungarian nationalist despot expressing contempt for basic rights. I now realize these two things are equal and I understand the error of my ways.
🙃
So I've repeatedly derided modern American conservatism as mental illness and now here we have conservatives at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) cheering on a far-right Hungarian nationalist despot expressing contempt for basic rights. I now realize these two things are equal and I understand the error of my ways.
🙃
- 6,068
- Simcoeace
Joe Biden's building back better business savvy leads to lowest unemployment levels in 50 years and fastest dropping gas prices in decades:
www.foxbusiness.com
www.caranddriver.com
😏
US economy adds 528,000 jobs in July, blowing past expectations
The Labor Department's July jobs report provided a key snapshot of the labor market's health amid growing fears that the U.S. is headed for, or already in, a recession.
Gas Prices See Fastest Decline in over a Decade, Down 83 Cents Since Mid-June
AAA says the national average is currently $4.19 per gallon, and it's $3.77 or less in eight states.
😏
Joey D
Premium
- 47,480
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Except the president has very little control over both of those things. So while Biden shouldn't be blamed for the economy tanking or high gas prices, he shouldn't be praised when the economy starts to recover or gas prices go down.Joe Biden's building back better business savvy leads to lowest unemployment levels in 50 years and fastest dropping gas prices in decades:
US economy adds 528,000 jobs in July, blowing past expectations
The Labor Department's July jobs report provided a key snapshot of the labor market's health amid growing fears that the U.S. is headed for, or already in, a recession.
Gas Prices See Fastest Decline in over a Decade, Down 83 Cents Since Mid-June
AAA says the national average is currently $4.19 per gallon, and it's $3.77 or less in eight states.
😏
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
@Biggles :
Gas prices gonna gas price. The president never has anything to do with them, no matter what people say, in either direction.
But speaking as someone in the US construction industry, I can confidently tell you that inflation of construction costs is approaching 100% over the last 3 years.
Most of that is in the last 2 years and is directly related to recent federal spending programs. I do mostly public works projects, and none of my clients care that they are getting half the value for their dollar, because it is all 'free' federal money that will evaporate if they don't use it...
...except that it is also driving the price of work not covered by these programs through the roof. So plenty of other projects are just getting cancelled.
This isn't going to end until all that federal money gets spent,and then it is going to crash hard.
Gas prices gonna gas price. The president never has anything to do with them, no matter what people say, in either direction.
But speaking as someone in the US construction industry, I can confidently tell you that inflation of construction costs is approaching 100% over the last 3 years.
Most of that is in the last 2 years and is directly related to recent federal spending programs. I do mostly public works projects, and none of my clients care that they are getting half the value for their dollar, because it is all 'free' federal money that will evaporate if they don't use it...
...except that it is also driving the price of work not covered by these programs through the roof. So plenty of other projects are just getting cancelled.
This isn't going to end until all that federal money gets spent,and then it is going to crash hard.
- 6,068
- Simcoeace
Of course. But the biggest talent of Trump according to his cult members (besides his willingness to be overtly racist), is what a brilliant businessman he is and how that led to the record low unemployment levels, low gas prices etc during his administration. Conversely, Biden's ineptness has led to soaring inflation & record gas prices post Trump. Furthermore, this is apparently what will lead to the Dems being burned in the upcoming mid-terms. The fact that soaring inflation and record gas prices are a thing throughout the world right now doesn't seem to enter the consciousness of Trumpers, who have only the dimmest awareness of anything happening outside the US.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,026
- Mile High City
Nobody remembers everyone stopped driving? Gas prices tanked because people stayed home. I despise the cult45 rewrite of history.
...and demand, and previous federal spending programs, and the contraction of international trade worldwide but especially with China, and interest rates, and...
- 6,068
- Simcoeace
"Rewrite of history"? That seems like a overly generous description of what Trumpers do. The disturbing part of all this is that there seems to be a consensus in the US that the Democrats will lose control of the House in the mid-terms due to the state of the economy and Trumpism will reassert itself. What Trump actually did (2017 - 2019) was use every means at his disposal (as well as ones that weren't) to goose the economy temporarily to demonstrate what a brilliant businessman he is. Like everything Trump does, it's all about him and his grotesquely needy ego.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
That accounted for some of it, particularly in 2019-2020. But federal spending in 2021-2022 lit the afterburners, particularly in the trades I'm discussing.
For instance, large-scale HVAC equipment used to have a lead time of 6-12 weeks. Now it is literally twice as expensive and has a lead time of 40-50 weeks at best. This is absolutely in direct response to the federal ESSER program which dumped billions of dollars into replacing (wait for it)... large-scale HVAC equipment at public schools nationwide.
Last edited:
Joey D
Premium
- 47,480
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
For the average American, the economy is still bad even if the numbers from the White House say otherwise. Housing is incredibly expensive pretty much everywhere and people are spending significantly more on things like groceries than they were a year ago. While gas prices have been shrinking a bit, they're definitely not shrinking everywhere. I'm still paying $4.89/gallon for our terrible quality fuel and if I had a diesel, I'd be looking at $5.39/gallon. There are layoffs occurring as well and while there are jobs out there, they are low-paying and not really beneficial for people. If I were to lose my job today, I could get a different job tomorrow, but I would be making less than half of what I'm making today. That doesn't really work.
Most people also can't be bothered with politics, all they care about is whether or not they can take care of their family or just live their life. It's still difficult for a number of people right now, and when Trump was the president, they didn't have as many of these worries. So right or wrong, they see that when Republicans are in charge their life is better. Even though it's far more complex than that, the average American doesn't know or really care to know.
This is the reason why I think the Democrats will get slaughtered in the mid-terms. They also haven't really done anything meaningful that the average person notices. While that too is very much a complex issue, once again, the average person doesn't really care about the nuances of politics. They want to see results that affect them.
Danoff
Premium
- 34,026
- Mile High City
I'm a little lost here. I thought we were discussing what could reasonably be associated with Biden vs. Trump. It seemed to be the context of the discussion. From what I can see, ESSER, which I gather caused a spike in prices and backlog in supply chain that is specific to large-scale HVAC, happened during the Trump administration in response to COVID. The idea being that schools needed upgraded HVAC systems to help prevent respiratory virus spread. My whole point was that the price jumps recently have been something that spans presidencies and parties.
International supply problems have no small role here as well. Not only have other countries been struggling to staff factories at various times, but countries and companies are reducing their reliance on international supply chains partly in response to these disruptions. So it's a one-two punch. You're struggling to get supply from China, and you're scaling down future supply from China in response. That drives prices up.
Sure, I have no doubt that funding for public school HVAC equipment in response to the pandemic caused HVAC prices to increase. That all makes perfect sense.
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
ESSER began under Trump's administration but was extended / expanded under Biden's administration, along with the introduction of Biden's 'Build Back Better' program which is similar, except on an even more massive scale.
@Biggles posted a link crowing about drops in unemployment rates and attributing them to Biden's "business savvy". I was offering counterpoint highlighting the temporary nature of any such gains, their direct affect on inflation, and the eventual kick-the-can-down-the-road fallout.
None of which are particularly flattering toward Biden's alleged "business savvy."
@Biggles posted a link crowing about drops in unemployment rates and attributing them to Biden's "business savvy". I was offering counterpoint highlighting the temporary nature of any such gains, their direct affect on inflation, and the eventual kick-the-can-down-the-road fallout.
None of which are particularly flattering toward Biden's alleged "business savvy."
Last edited:
Danoff
Premium
- 34,026
- Mile High City
I saw that the program was started in 2020 relatively near the start of the pandemic, and expanded/extended late 2020. Are we saying that it's subsequent extensions of this that are the chief culprit for high prices right now? That seems a little... choosey. I mean it could be right, but it doesn't immediately jump out at me that way.
I think it's fair to highlight that gains are temporary - especially with gas prices but also employment. We all know that Trump had no business savvy, and was not responsible in the slightest. An absolute ton of spending happened during 2020 in response to the pandemic in order to keep the economy from tanking prior to the election. PPP loans juiced the stock market and combined with low interest rates juiced the housing market. The idea was to avoid economic collapse. People were freaked out about evictions, companies that couldn't function anymore, a hard squeeze on trade and spending... I was reading about concerns of deflation and negative interest rates in 2020.
The idea that federal spending is driving our current wave of inflation is a little... simplistic. Federal spending simply isn't high enough to do it. Maybe if you look at a very specific product, like large-scale HVAC systems, you could tie the price directly to federal spending. But across the board the increases in price are simply not in line with the increases in federal spending. You'd need to view it in light of more, which includes the contracting supply in addition to increasing demand. The demand isn't entirely attributable to federal spending either, it's also just down to an economy that is still trying to wake up, and restructure, from the slumber in 2020. Restructuring means buying things. For a lot of companies it means buying the same things as other companies, and in the same places.
Federal spending on infrastructure tends to net overall economic gains in the long term, and doing so at a time of historically low interest rates is a reasonable financial move. Especially when that interest rate is down around the target for future inflation. Borrowing for infrastructure at a rate that will be paid for by a healthy level of inflation is honestly admirable behavior for the federal government, even from a strongly libertarian perspective. Infrastructure is usually the last thing libertarians attack, and paying service on the debt that is close to the needed level of inflation in exchange for expected growth in GDP means that the investment comes at a discount from a tax perspective.
Last edited:
Joey D
Premium
- 47,480
- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Danoff
Premium
- 34,026
- Mile High City
It's kinda tough to respond to this because you're talking about "the feds" which is any of a number of things, and "are doing" could be over significant timescale. If you're talking about the infrastructure bill specifically, I think that's a hypercritical view of it.
Reckless abandon I think is uncalled for in this case. HVAC upgrades to help prevent the spread of the pandemic doesn't strike me as a good example of reckless or abandon.
The metaphor suggests that the bulk of the problem is policy, and I think that's contradictory to what we're seeing worldwide. It suggests that the fire, which maybe is even a good and pleasant thing, wouldn't have burned their eyebrows if not for the gasoline. I'm not sure any of that is true.
I think it's realistic to say that federal spending, along with a large number of other factors not linked to federal spending, has conspired to give us this specific side-effect from the pandemic. And that this particular side-effect may not be the worst one we could have had, and furthermore that it may not have been entirely avoidable.
Last edited:
Similar threads
