Controller vs wheel

[MarcoGT5]

I always used a controller until last year when I got my G25 and playseat which made playing so much more fun and when you get used to it, smoother and faster. When I tried my controller again I absolutely sucked and it just didn't feel fun anymore and I drove all over the place, for me getting the G25 was a very good decision and I'll never go back to using the controller again.

 

[twinace]

if you get blisters from playing video games...theres issues

Good one

Wheels have really become a very much more attractive option since the release of the G25. I mean a wheel that is as expensive as it is and there's a sincere market for it...who would have guessed? Also, it makes DFGT appear that much more affordable too.

The reason I say that is because many people here play with manual control exclusively. Few true to heart racers would compromise their setup without an H-pattern shifter. Some can live without it, but I know some friends of mine certainly can't.

 

[vaioleto]

The controller will always give quicker laptimes in cars with under 300 horsepowers, since in those cars the loss of time you get with less throttle/braking control is offset with the speed with which you can apply throttle and braking.

But in higher powered cars, cars like the ferrari enzo and the Zonda racecars are almost impossible to drive with the controller (as is the case with GTPSP) since you can't control the throttle and you'll spin your tires every time you exit a corner.

Having said that, I'd never voluntarily use a controller over my G25, what's the point of getting better times if you aren't actually using skills you could actually apply to real life.

 

[IsmokeGT]

The controller will always give quicker laptimes in cars with under 300 horsepowers, since in those cars the loss of time you get with less throttle/braking control is offset with the speed with which you can apply throttle and braking.

That is very wrong for more than a few reasons.

 

[Gejost]

...right now i'm struggling so much with GT PSP that I often dream of finding a way to hook up my wheel (oh, how I wish!).

Like this?

 

[Raitziger]

Yeah true as well, but I think people need to be smooth at first to be get the hang of it..

If PD has correct physics model you do not really have be smooth if you are on the limit. On the limit steering angle changes do not have much effect on the forces to car. That is the reason also why racing drivers can use tha "sawing motion" and still be very fast.

 

[loki993]

Yeah true as well, but I think people need to be smooth at first to be get the hang of it..

But true, look at this guy in the RUF.

His inputs may not be the smoothest in the world, but his line was pretty good. All those extra inputs were to keep the car on the track. 911s aren't known for being the easiest cars in the world to drive, especially fast on a track like that.

 

[TokyoDrift]

I use to play on a sixaxis, Bit the bullet and bought a DFGT at best buy, And practiacally halved my lap times. Another thing i noticed, Driving on GT5p with a sixaxis was very boring imo, i would often ask my self what would a wheel be like. I found out, and now i can't go back. It completely changed the game, Sim racing tonight and all the other reviews were right, This game was made for a wheel.

You halved your lap times eh? I fail to accept that you would be either so bad with a SIXAXIS or so good with DFGT. Coming out and saying that you halved your lap times is ridiculous. If you had come out and said you shaved a few seconds off each lap, that would be more believable.

The only truth you seem to speak is the fun element that using a wheel introduces. I wouldn't call controlling games with a pad "boring" though, far from it.

I dont care if you are faster with a controller, Any body can hit triggers and toggle a joy pad, I remember drifting on the sixaxis, I just turned and pulled off amazing power overs with ease, I tried that on the DFGT and got my arse handed to me. Point is, sure you can go faster on a controller, But it does not feel rewarding, just you sitting in a chair occasionally mashing buttons, I like to sit conformable in my chair, grab hold of the wheel and take control, Just like i do my wemon.

How contradictory. You just said you halved your lap times with a DFGT, so you must be amazing with the wheel. Yet, here you are saying that you can't even handle drifting with it...

 

[Smoke&Slide]

If PD has correct physics model you do not really have be smooth if you are on the limit. On the limit steering angle changes do not have much effect on the forces to car. That is the reason also why racing drivers can use tha "sawing motion" and still be very fast.

That isn't true, try quickly changing direction on a track with a lightweight mid engined sportscar & tell us what happens.If you aren't quick with the wheel you will spin out.A Smart Roadster will do this & most or all MR cars would.GT5 should simulate torque steer in some fwd cars ( Alfa 147 GTA ).

 

[socomkiller59]

The controller will always give quicker laptimes in cars with under 300 horsepowers, since in those cars the loss of time you get with less throttle/braking control is offset with the speed with which you can apply throttle and braking.

But in higher powered cars, cars like the ferrari enzo and the Zonda racecars are almost impossible to drive with the controller (as is the case with GTPSP) since you can't control the throttle and you'll spin your tires every time you exit a corner.

Having said that, I'd never voluntarily use a controller over my G25, what's the point of getting better times if you aren't actually using skills you could actually apply to real life.

Correct for the PSP, but not for the consoles themselves, since the sticks give you a lot of controller instead of just hitting the buttons, which I assume, most people do.

 

[Spec M]

I have yet to use a steering wheel for the GT series.
But its seems that to get the full experience and bring out my own full potential a wheel maybe necessary.
So, eventually i'll be using a G25 with GT5, G25 is the best right as far as reliability?

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I use a controller and feel so comfortable with it. I doubt I could switch to a wheel. My fingers are trained as well as most people's hands and feet are with a wheel. I don't see how much of an advantage can be had, especially when we're talking about years of controller use.

 

[vaioleto]

Correct for the PSP, but not for the consoles themselves, since the sticks give you a lot of controller instead of just hitting the buttons, which I assume, most people do.

Eh, I don't really like it, I tried it once and it just didn't feel right... lol

 

[myke6699]

It's more than just how fast you can go around the track- with the DS3, you can't feel the weight of the car, the weight transfer, the road/tires and all the subtle and not so subtle feedback. While the rumble on the DS3 provide a bit, it barely scratches the surface of what the wheel provides. With my G25, I can tell right away how well PD has simulated the feel of driving a Honda NSX- its suspension, the fact that it is a mid-engine rear wheel drive car and how well it handles.

After spending a lot of time with the microsoft wheel and Forza 3 and SHIFT (with the G25), I decide to give Prologue another whirl. Undoubtedly, both FM3 and SHIFT has their strength (and weaknesses) but for me, Prologue still take the cake when it comes to how well FFB can work in sim. It's not as flashy as the FFB in SHIFT but when I felt the weight shifting (in the M3 I was driving at Fuji) from rear to front as I was descending at the first turn on the track and I can clearly feel that the car also has a front engine which further add to the shift in balance and all this while not only do I feel the front suspension being pressed but also that there's added traction to the front tires.

And in the matter of seconds (or even miliseconds) that all the info was being fed to me, it gave the sense of how fast I can really take that first right hand turn.

 

[don-sf]

i use controller mainly, but im waiting to get a little table to set up my g25.

but the way most people drive with the controller, is very very unrealistic. people tap left slightly a few times to make movements towards left. where as in real life, you just steer how much you want.

technically it is possible to drive exactly like real life with the analouge. it would involve balancing the analouge stick at certain points, and making little adjustments...

analouge sticks are designed to go back to the centre, and stay at the centre. steering wheel is different.

i really enjoy driving the wheel, really enhances the experience. im still getting better.

 

[snowgt]

1) Let's put it like this: If driving with a controller yielded better lap times, they would be building them into race cars instead of steering wheels and pedals.

2) To stabilize some cars under braking you need to be able to accelerate and brake at the same time. There's practically no way to do this without driving aids on a controller.

The fact that some drivers are competitive with the controller is simply down to the fact that the game is being programmed to be more forgiving with it.

I made the leap to a wheel with GT3, and while I was surprised not to be able to match the lap times instantly, after a couple of hours they were a lot better. It's just a very special skill you acquire when you drive a lot with a controller, and while it's fun, in my opinion it just doesn't have a lot to do with real driving.

 

[Stotty]

Yeah true as well, but I think people need to be smooth at first to be get the hang of it..

But true, look at this guy in the RUF.

That's a very well known video called Fazination. The driver is Stephan Roser... he was (not sure if he is still) the Ruf Factory test driver. The Yellowbird in the video is set up specifically to oversteer so Stephan can show off his high speed drifting skills... which are clearly immense given some of the big corrections he makes on some of the fastest parts of the track.

The full video covers 2 laps... both are knocking about on Youtube, but unfortunately aren't very good quality.

Regarding whether he's smooth or not... it might look like he's quite violent with the wheel, but if you watch carefully you can see he's very smooth with his initial steering inputs in the faster corners. It's only in the slower and medium speed corners where his initial input is sharp - when he's deliberately inducing oversteer by turning in sharply and backing off the throttle. Of course he needs to be much quicker with the steering once the cars is turned in and sliding, particularly on a track like the 'Ring which is exceptionally bumpy.

Back to the original topic, almost everyone will be significantly faster with a decent wheel, particularly in more powerful RWD and MR cars.

 

[Lernatix]

In my experience, the wheel isn't faster. It is however easier to be more precise and offers much better consistency compared to the six-axe. If I made the same lap time on both controls, it would be a question of "can I repeat that time next lap". So I guess that on average, the wheel probably is faster for most people over a race distance.

 

[Stotty]

IIRC, in the last GTP qualifying event (F430, S2's, Suzuka, pro physics) only 2 drivers in Division 1 gold didn't use a wheel (Bollox and Timeattack)... both of them have since switched to using wheels.

A wheel is quicker AND more consistent.

 

[Tume]

1) Let's put it like this: If driving with a controller yielded better lap times, they would be building them into race cars instead of steering wheels and pedals.

2) To stabilize some cars under braking you need to be able to accelerate and brake at the same time. There's practically no way to do this without driving aids on a controller.

The fact that some drivers are competitive with the controller is simply down to the fact that the game is being programmed to be more forgiving with it.

I made the leap to a wheel with GT3, and while I was surprised not to be able to match the lap times instantly, after a couple of hours they were a lot better. It's just a very special skill you acquire when you drive a lot with a controller, and while it's fun, in my opinion it just doesn't have a lot to do with real driving.

What do you mean? There is a way to accelerate and brake at the same time with a controller. I do it all the time and I drive with all the aids (apart from abs) off. I have L2 and R2 set for braking and accelerating. If you have to brake during a corner in an MR car, its very important to also give it some throttle. Its crucial in most MR cars, especially in the GT LM.

The sensitivity for L2 and R2 buttons is weirdly modelled, and I find it almost impossible to drive with abs off. You can either not brake, brake very little, or lock up the wheels when abs is off.

 

[Seismica]

Correct for the PSP, but not for the consoles themselves, since the sticks give you a lot of controller instead of just hitting the buttons, which I assume, most people do.

I use the x & square button for throttle and brakes. I have tried the triggers and the right stick, but they don't seem to work aswell for me. I've got to say the main problem with the x button is not the ability to control the throttle, its when you power on, you can't do it with a smooth motion. I feel with a pedal i could slowly put power on, but with the x button, even though it is analogue, when you power on out of a corner it doesn't matter how little throttle you put into it, its an instantaneous motion which spins the wheels. With a pedal i assume i will be a lot better as you can power on in a smooth motion. My right thumb is going to be permenantly deformed if i continue powering on with the x button.

Also, using the right stick means you can't left foot brake, and good luck with toe and heel. So you are automatically slower than an adept wheel/pedal user in that respect.

 

[Exorcet]

Wheels are vastly superior. It was even the case in GT4. They just give you such a high level of precision and control. When I started using the wheel, after years and 4 games with controllers, I saw an improvment. And the wheel didn't even have a stand, it was flying all over my lap.

 

[Raitziger]

That isn't true, try quickly changing direction on a track with a lightweight mid engined sportscar & tell us what happens.If you aren't quick with the wheel you will spin out.A Smart Roadster will do this & most or all MR cars would.GT5 should simulate torque steer in some fwd cars ( Alfa 147 GTA ).

The Professor is allways right http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/Char...sics-in-Games-Real-Time-Simulation-Explained/

 

[Seismica]

That isn't true, try quickly changing direction on a track with a lightweight mid engined sportscar & tell us what happens.If you aren't quick with the wheel you will spin out.A Smart Roadster will do this & most or all MR cars would.GT5 should simulate torque steer in some fwd cars ( Alfa 147 GTA ).

I think Torque steer would be out of place UNLESS the player had a wheel with force feedback. I wonder if in GT5 they will incorporate this into the game. They should, it wouldn't be that hard to do. What would be stupid is having torque steer for pad users, because the car turns itself and you can't do anything to stop it because you don't know how much correction to give. But a wheel, you know exactly how much steering you need to correct because it turns right infront of you, you have to fight to keep it straight. But with a pad there is no feedback whatsoever.

Ideally it should have 3 physics levels, one for basic pad users, one for advanced pad users and basic wheel users, and one for force feedback wheel users that simulates torque steer among other things.

 

[Dan_]

I'm going to buy a wheel just to play GT5, but i've always played the GT series on controllers and i can say that you can play decently(i've said "decently" not "fast enough to race again Human drivers") in a DS without driving aids, just use the analogic sticks, without TCS, you can only do 60% of pressure on the gas, you just need to practice your precision as the DS3 analog sticks are much better than the ones on the DS2.


But, without all the driving aids, my lap times are always a couple of seconds slower, so, with pro physics, no TCS and no ABS you don't have how to make decent lap times with a controller, just to mention, i've clocked 1:06:225 in HighSpeedRing with the GTR tuned for max power and min weight when using driving aids, when i turn all of them off, the faster I can go is between 1:10 and 1:11 and the lap times are really inconsistent, ranging from 1:10 to 1:14, just because sometimes you lose the tail and when you realize what is happening, there's no how to recover the traction, so you've already lost a precious time....

 

[TokyoDrift]

1) Let's put it like this: If driving with a controller yielded better lap times, they would be building them into race cars instead of steering wheels and pedals.

That's some twisted logic right there. Believe it or not, regardless of whether a wheel is actually better than a pad (which is irrelevant), there are people out there who get on much better playing racing GAMES with a pad.

2) To stabilize some cars under braking you need to be able to accelerate and brake at the same time. There's practically no way to do this without driving aids on a controller.

I find it rather easy to press the left and right triggers at the same time.

The fact that some drivers are competitive with the controller is simply down to the fact that the game is being programmed to be more forgiving with it.

I made the leap to a wheel with GT3, and while I was surprised not to be able to match the lap times instantly, after a couple of hours they were a lot better. It's just a very special skill you acquire when you drive a lot with a controller, and while it's fun, in my opinion it just doesn't have a lot to do with real driving.

You said it - it's what people are used to, and it's what most games are programmed for. I bought a wheel with GT4, and while I found it much more fun, I was generally speaking not as good with a wheel as I was with a pad. It really depended on the track - ones with lots of tight turns I was better with a pad. Faster courses with sweeping corners favoured the wheel. In the end, I just stuck with the pad because it was the controller always to hand, and yielded more consistent results.

 

[yanfloist]

a wheel make your turn MUCH more smooth and precise!! i'm getting a wheel for gt5, no matter what!!

 

[IsmokeGT]

That's some twisted logic right there. Believe it or not, regardless of whether a wheel is actually better than a pad (which is irrelevant), there are people out there who get on much better playing racing GAMES with a pad.

First, his logic was logical, not twisted. If you could drive a race car, in the real world, faster with a 1/2 inch stick, then they would incorporate that into real race cars. (no twisting going on, just common sense)
Second, the people you speak of either haven't used a wheel, or they haven't put enough effort into getting good with a wheel.

The bottom line is everyone will be faster, more consistent, and have more fun using a wheel/pedal setup. This didn't come from my rear, it comes from knowing people who were real fast with a controller (faster than a lot of guys with wheels) and all the attributes I listed were enhanced through using a wheel/pedals.

 

[Earth]

if you get blisters from playing video games...theres issues

Issues?

I got them on my thumbs for running the 1000km of Suzuka in GT4. I dont use the sticks, I used the D-Pad and buttons in GT4. Remember the buttons on the DS2 are sensitive and on a worn out controller you have to really smash them to get full response. Over 4 hours straight of button smashing did me in. One of the main factors behind me getting a wheel.

 

[astrosdude91]

Well I've been playing with a controller since GT1, and I don't see myself ever changing. Controller for me.