Course Maker in GT6?
- Thread starter ffjjbb
- 786 comments
- 58,007 views
- 2,006
- Port Washington
- GTP_skeeter23
Thanks
and exactly. I also agree that the course maker would very likely be too limited to truly recreate anything "very well". The amount of tools you would need to model the twists, turns, and undulations would be on a scale totally overwhelming the poor little cell in a PS3. A course "mock-up" would be good fun but I would gladly run with money in fist to get a true recreation of it.I think it would be a really cool way of creating fictional tracks though. It would be so much easier to simply go drive around for awhile than think of something and draw it out blindly. Having something to base a design on is quite helpful esp for those with "creativity issues".
Could be quite useful for recreating the karting complex inside the racetrack seen above though
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
Wow, can all this be done on say, an android phone with the appropriate app and Assisted GPS ?
- 2,006
- Port Washington
- GTP_skeeter23
Yes. Go download "Google My Tracks" for free from the play store and mess around with it for awhile.
- 379
- Rio de Janeiro
- Rod__Carvalho
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Could be quite useful for recreating the karting complex inside the racetrack seen above though
I've been cruising Google Earth a bit for Kart Tracks...lots of good ones paired up with real race tracks. Love to recreate my old home track in Goodwood, Ontario. I've also Google Earth'd Ronda and there are some interesting roads there, although many of them are quite narrow. I wonder if we'll be able to connect sections of road with virtual roads..that sure would come in handy.
- 2,006
- Port Washington
- GTP_skeeter23
Ridox2JZGTE
About 30min ago I clicked it on and recorded a short trip. This is a screenshot from my phone of what the app Google My Tracks displays...
- 11,660
- GTP_Orido
About 30min ago I clicked it on and recorded a short trip. This is a screenshot from my phone of what the app Google My Tracks displays...
Thanks, that looks pretty neat, imagine GT6 app with more bells and whistles
- 8,723
GPS is a 3D positioning system by necessity, "elevation" can always be found as it's inherent in the raw data. It just depends on whether your device or "app" stores / outputs the translated, human-intelligible data with the elevation component (or, perhaps, if it's even calculated).
It'd be great if we'll be able to aggregate traces to build our own free roam environments - I assume that's what others had been meaning?
And to think the most vocal responses in the free roam thread were along the lines of "this isn't TDU". Focus groups have no place in creative media (GRiD 2, I'm looking at you...)
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
There's another major thing you're forgetting, DLC tracks (or any track not created by the course maker) are more suited for online racing whilst a track that's generated/created is more than often completely unfamiliar to anyone other than the host.
And since they mentioned GT6 having a more flexible structure than GT5, maybe that also mean they can now integrate new DLC content in for example A-Spec.
As for the course maker created tracks in general and the GPS data gathered by players, I'm curious if that's also something that can be shared (maybe also through a website) so that in theory you can use sections of the whole world.
And aside from recreating existing road sections, I also like the idea of creating tracks where no roads exist (basically what PD themselves did with Eiger) or where you normally can't or aren't allowed to go with a car.
NCRthree
Premium
- 1,797
- Virginia
- ncrthree/GTP_ncrthree
The prospects of this are mind boggling. I've always thought of the street cars in GT as being driven on actual streets. I would love to map out a drive through the Virginia countryside driving as fast as possible in recreation of my own real life car. Take a few wild laps on Langley Speedway then set out on a midnight blast on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Look out for deer! Create my morning commute free of traffic back ups. There's a cloverleaf I'd love to beat into submission.
- 8,723
"Sections of the whole world" ? So I can leave Rome, jump on an appropriately themed generated course using data streamed from user-uploaded GPS data of the area, keep going, theme changing as I go, until I reach Monza, or beyond? Granted that's a bit of sophisticated tech, but what a target!
Hadn't thought about creating roads where there aren't any - maybe riding my bike wasn't such a silly idea after all! At least I should be able to get some interesting rally or hillclimb courses out of some of my haunts... 👍
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
If the course generator is good enough, I can see guys running whole series using course creator tracks, but most likely it'll be a fooling around with friends or driving solo thing. PD would be well served to have a contest on course creator tracks, perhaps run by a third party like GTP, and then have that track spiffed up if necessary and then released as free DLC. Same with the livery stuff if we get it.
I admit I'm not the most tech savvy guy...lol. I did discover elevation is part of Google Earth when I went into street view mode in Ronda this afternoon. Interesting to note as well, Google Earth actually has Google Street views of some race tracks and even one or two kart tracks that I found. If that data could be transferred from Google Street directly to GT6 the possibilities would indeed be endless. If not, I can see a whole sub-community popping up of guys all over the world asking others to drive certain roads and create and share tracks. A whole mini-industry. The route of the Targa Florio heading south out of Castlebuono in Palermo would be absolutely incredible:idea:💡
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
That's one approach needing a lot of ingame organizing for sure
but for example the Stelvio Pass, not everyone is able to go there and 'record' it but if data gathered there (or the actual road/track replica already done) can be shared?And that's just one example.
GPS data is just establishing where you are on this planet (or your device) I presume, doubt it recognizes whether there are actual roads with this ingame function so that automatically means you can 'record' almost anything I guess given there's enough space between it.
Okay, this might sound stupid, but what would happen if you gathered data in a stuntplane or rollercoaster?
Last edited:
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
This GPS talk sounds great but I am not going to get my hopes up on that one. Could be one of the coolest features ever in any racing game or could be nothing more than fantasy.
- 2,006
- Port Washington
- GTP_skeeter23
Analog: you are right. GPS co-ordinates would just be proverbial points in an empty space. The game wouldn't know or care if there were roads there or not. In theory you very well could record a track on a rollercoaster or plane.
HBR: sad but true :-(
HBR: sad but true :-(
- 659
- Germany
- ZoidFile
There was a modding tool for GTR2/EVO/Race07 called "Bob's Track Builder", there one could build a Racetrack with real GPS data. I've once done a track with streets from my hometown.
One had to spend some time on refining the data though. Especially the elevation data was kind of wonky.
One had to spend some time on refining the data though. Especially the elevation data was kind of wonky.
- 1,778
- Florida, USA
I've found the kml file from google earth importing into Bobs Track Builder can be off by several ft/km, not very good.
In some cases I've found adjusting by hand using photo references and any other means
is better when adjusting elevations. Curios how accurate the cvs data will be, haven't imported that type of data before.
I can imagine the fun I will have with this, if it truly comes to be.
- 8,723
You can't expect the elevation data from google earth etc. to be any good, because it's just not stored / transferred at a high enough resolution. Hand-placed lat.-long. are calculated precisely (if not necessarily accurately) from a virtual sphere / spheroid surface, but sequences taken from a database are subject to the same resolution restrictions as above. Of course there's no guarantee that images are lined up correctly or undistorted on that surface, either.
Data from a GPS device is likely more accurate, more precise and less ambiguous, with the downside that someone has to go and collect that data (perhaps only once). I doubt file formats have much to do with it, as it's just a list of co-ordinates, rather it's the source that matters. A proper "wilderness" GPS would be ideal, as there's no guarantee that mainstream devices operate with the required precision at every step (esp. data export). I'm sure there will be plenty of testing and opining when / if the time comes.
Should be fun!
Data from a GPS device is likely more accurate, more precise and less ambiguous, with the downside that someone has to go and collect that data (perhaps only once). I doubt file formats have much to do with it, as it's just a list of co-ordinates, rather it's the source that matters. A proper "wilderness" GPS would be ideal, as there's no guarantee that mainstream devices operate with the required precision at every step (esp. data export). I'm sure there will be plenty of testing and opining when / if the time comes.
Should be fun!
- 11,298
- Sweden
- eran0004
I don't know how accurate the altitude reading from GPS would be. Searches on google seems to suggest that the room for error could be as much as +/-50 meters. There are ways of improving the accuracy, don't know if they apply to altitude, or only horizontal position though...
- 916
Well I just hope you aren't all disappointed. This sounds like a good idea in theory, but making it work properly would not be so easy, and making it work well enough for it to be worth doing (so that the road you create is actually resembling in some way the road you have "recorded") would be very hard. Without some good tools for scenery, road-width, road-camber, road profile etc it would be unfulfilling. Even with perfect smoothing out of gps coordinates there are still lots of things that would make the road different unless you can adjust them, and if it's not close enough to at least fool yourself a little bit, what's the point?
If we see something about this at e3 I'll be happy, but I really doubt it, and if it's all just a misunderstanding I hope that people accept that.
If we see something about this at e3 I'll be happy, but I really doubt it, and if it's all just a misunderstanding I hope that people accept that.
- 8,723
As always, I'm fully prepared to be totally wrong / disappointed.
Regarding elevation precision, if it's +/- 50 m randomly, then the data will be useless as you'll effectively have 100 m noise. If it just means the whole trace might be off by that amount, but all the points are in the right place relative to each other, I can't see there being too much of an issue. Then it's all about spatial resolution and total number of points allowed.
I can't imagine we're too far off the mark, though, and we must have members familiar with GPS mapping lurking, too, who could clue us in regarding feasibility and precision etc.
I suppose Gamescom isn't that far away, let alone E3.
Regarding elevation precision, if it's +/- 50 m randomly, then the data will be useless as you'll effectively have 100 m noise. If it just means the whole trace might be off by that amount, but all the points are in the right place relative to each other, I can't see there being too much of an issue. Then it's all about spatial resolution and total number of points allowed.
I can't imagine we're too far off the mark, though, and we must have members familiar with GPS mapping lurking, too, who could clue us in regarding feasibility and precision etc.
I suppose Gamescom isn't that far away, let alone E3.
- 6,804
- The Netherlands
As Griffith500 said, I'm aware this is just speculation as we don't know much if anything yet, but it's human nature I guess to figure out how something could or should work and discuss the possible implications.
But even when it doesn't work like that at all, and even when this GPS function does something completely different altogether and isn't much to shout about, there's still an improved course creator to look forward to and that epic Andalucia map.
Just having those 2 things would've been enough for me (regarding course creator), I didn't expect a GPS function so I'm not worried it'll live up to any expectations I currently might have as long as all cars are Premium, oh darn...
- 2,006
- Port Washington
- GTP_skeeter23
Personally I can accept all of the imperfections a system like this could have. Thinking about it a little further again it might actually be something that would indeed allow the system to come to fruition in regards to any possible DLC implications due to certain inaccuracies.
On the issue of elevation:
1. I really don't believe that a track creator could incorporate elevation except in a very simple environment with sparse landscape details due to the warping that would likely occur to handle the changes.
2. There would definitely have to be some sort of normalization or averaging feature to reduce the amount of noise/jitter. If you get one errant value of say 100m on the verticle axis between two 0m values you would effectively create a wall instead of a hill. Obviously this is also dependent on capture resolution which brings us to...
3. Griffith500 was right again on the issue of resolution which ties into the last point. A high res device (say capturing a marker every couple meters) may actually produce too much information for a course generator to ingest. Whereas a low res system like a smartphone GPS (say maybe one marker every 50m) would be very choppy needing "smoothing" and by extension less accuracy.
What's the point of doing it if it's not 95-100% accurate? I ask what is the point of a random track generator? I think this would still be alot of fun. More so than the random rubbish we often get now.
If we do indeed hear something solid about this I may actually throw my hat in the ring to work on developing an Android app for this.
If not, well it was fun to think about and I'll enjoy building tracks and doing photoshoots with whatever they give us anyway
On the issue of elevation:
1. I really don't believe that a track creator could incorporate elevation except in a very simple environment with sparse landscape details due to the warping that would likely occur to handle the changes.
2. There would definitely have to be some sort of normalization or averaging feature to reduce the amount of noise/jitter. If you get one errant value of say 100m on the verticle axis between two 0m values you would effectively create a wall instead of a hill. Obviously this is also dependent on capture resolution which brings us to...
3. Griffith500 was right again on the issue of resolution which ties into the last point. A high res device (say capturing a marker every couple meters) may actually produce too much information for a course generator to ingest. Whereas a low res system like a smartphone GPS (say maybe one marker every 50m) would be very choppy needing "smoothing" and by extension less accuracy.
What's the point of doing it if it's not 95-100% accurate? I ask what is the point of a random track generator? I think this would still be alot of fun. More so than the random rubbish we often get now.
If we do indeed hear something solid about this I may actually throw my hat in the ring to work on developing an Android app for this.
If not, well it was fun to think about and I'll enjoy building tracks and doing photoshoots with whatever they give us anyway
- 331
- Addison, TX
- MX5_Racer_69
Yeah, I've been saying this for many years now. The game developer that implements this will change racing sims forever. It will be a landmark title. Now all we need is someone with the balls to pull it off. Who can do it?
For the skeptics out there that this is even possible, take a look at Strava.com. This is a website and app for cyclists that plots your exact path via GPS including altitude and automatically uploads the data to a server where you can share your rides with friends and fellow riders. All that's needed is code that can take that data and give you the general layout in a track editor based on uploaded GPS data. I am certain this is possible.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
It will be epic for sure, but I still think it's just a small part of the game. The bulk of any racing game will likely remain real world type races on real world type tracks.
- 331
- Addison, TX
- MX5_Racer_69
Well, the first thing you have to accept is that you aren't "recording" the scenery. You are only recording GPS data. The goal of this would be to create a track with the general layout of something in real life. Whether it looks the same as in real life, i.e. that tree over there is in the perfect place in the sim, well that's not realistic. That's not going to happen. That's why it takes iRacing a year and a half to laser scan a track and release it. It requires someone painstakingly adding that tree in just the right place. I'm certainly not asking for that.
But what would be nice is if when I take my car to the track for a track day, I could record that track and then upload it. Then I could create a track in GT6 that has the basic layout of the track in real life with whatever random background it gives me. Then I could practice in the sim getting the feel for the right and left hand turns, elevation changes, etc. So when I go back to the track, I've got all of that rhythm of the turns etched in my brain. It would be the greatest sim of all time.
And for the non-racers ... think of the fun you could have. If you're in high school, you slowly and carefully drive around your school recording the route. Then upload it. Then get with your friends and see who can hotlap the parking lot and be King of the Mountain on that track (a Strava.com concept). Sure, in the sim, there is no school. Maybe it's just a grass infield, or whatever. But you know it's the exact shape and distance of the loop around your school. And if you wanted to put down your best time in real life when nobody was looking, you could if you wanted (god help us). LOL.
It's a great idea. They should implement this. Totally.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I'm not a tech guy at all, but if you could interface Goggle Earth with the GPS data and then input generic looking building and trees, wouldn't it be possible to get something close to the real thing? I never used the feature myself but Company of Heroes had a "world building" feature like that, as I'm sure have other games.
- 3,385
- Las Vegas
- dawko-san
MX5Racer69
True, a track only, without real background would be enough and perfect for me. I hope it'll be in GT6 like this at least.
Maybe for GT7 on PS4, they could implement also Google's street view and sync it with GPS recording.
I'm so excited to race around my hometown in F1 or some GT3, GT5 car with my neighbor, lol.
