COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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Probably no surprise here, but the virus doesn't need sneezes or coughs to spread, just talking is enough - maybe even by just breathing.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/aerosol-coronavirus-spread-white-house-letter/index.html


Michael Osterholm said as much when interviewed by Joe Rogan on March 10th. He also said that COVID-19 produces 10x the amount of viral load in patients noses & throats than SARS during the incubation period. Couple that with the recent discovery that COVID-19 can remain alive in aerosol form for up to 3 hours...
 
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Shenzhen has become the first Chinese city to ban the sale and consumption of dog and cat meat.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/worl...-of-cats-and-dogs/ar-BB126zup?ocid=spartandhp

I came across the Shenzhen government website which is only in Chinese (http://www.sz.gov.cn/cn/xxgk/zfxxgj/zwdt/content/post_7120241.html). Using Google translate to find any mention that they actually said that they would ban dog or cat meat.

Interestingly, it doesn't actually say that. It only says the following are appropiate for consumption:

Article 3 Animals that can be eaten include:

(1) Pigs, cattle, sheep, donkeys, rabbits, chickens, ducks, geese, pigeons, quails listed in the National Livestock and Poultry Genetic Resources Catalogue, and other poultry and livestock raised in the Catalogue for food purposes;

(2) Aquatic animals that have not been banned from eating in accordance with laws and regulations.​

However I was unable to find the link or directions of the "Catalogue for food purposes", so it seems to allow opportunities in the future for that to be adjusted.

The explanation that the Government gave for the reasons to have the rule change (apart from the wet market issue) is shown below, although the language is (predictably) difficult to get meaning from:

-First, stipulating the range of edible animals is a necessary supplement to the range of prohibited animals. There are more than 1.5 million species of wild animals in nature, more than 7,300 species of wild vertebrates naturally distributed in China, and a large number of wild invertebrates. Under the general principle of a complete prohibition on eating wild animals, it is impossible to enumerate the "prohibition" Food Animal Directory. " In this regard, the National People's Congress and relevant national departments have made it clear that edible terrestrial animals should be within the scope of poultry and livestock listed in the "Catalogue", and terrestrial animals other than "Catalogue" should not be eaten. It is in line with the requirements of the "Decision" made by the National People's Congress.

-Second, the country ’s current catalog of livestock and poultry genetic resources lists a total of 20 animals, namely: pigs, chickens, ducks, geese, special poultry, oxen, buffalo, yaks, large cattle, sheep, goats, horses, donkeys, and camels. , Rabbit, sika deer, red deer, mink, sting, bee. Within the scope of the "Catalogue", the "Regulations" listed 10 types of poultry and livestock that are mainly sold in the Shenzhen market and are commonly consumed by citizens. On the one hand, it is convenient for the citizens to more intuitively and clearly know which animals can be eaten. No special inquiry is required. The "catalog", on the other hand, also plays a guiding and guiding role. Animals such as horses, camels, sika deer, red deer, mink, crickets, bees and other animals in the "Catalogue" are mainly used for medicinal or other economic purposes. At present, the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs and the National Forestry and Grass Bureau are formulating, Relevant catalogs and supporting regulations have been adjusted. Therefore, after the 10 species are listed in the Regulations, the range of edible terrestrial animals in the form of pocket provisions also includes "other poultry and livestock raised in the catalog for the purpose of providing food", In the future, if the relevant national catalogue is modified, the range of edible animals in Shenzhen will be adjusted accordingly.

Reading more into the document, it seems to work towards ensuring that open air butchery is no longer available or unlicensed butchery or killing of live animals before being brought over the counter, as shown below:

"With the improvement of cold chain logistics technology and the gradual maturity of cold chain traceability, Shenzhen has the conditions to take the lead in expanding the cold chain distribution and centralized slaughtering model to all poultry and livestock in the country. The "Regulations" clearly stipulate that the implementation of cold-chain distribution of edible animals, the prohibition of private slaughter of poultry and livestock, and related acts, and the prohibition of the sale of live poultry and livestock to consumers for the purpose of providing food, are conducive to improving the level of animal food inspection and quarantine and safety supervision, and ensuring that The quality and safety of animal foods is also conducive to reducing inappropriate contact between humans and animals, preventing the spread of zoonotic diseases to humans, and also preventing wild animals from serving at the table through farmers' markets, supermarkets, restaurants, etc"​

Its interesting that they are also looking towards ending the practice of going to the supermarket (Lianhua, Carrefour), selecting a live fish and you (the customer) or a staff member just basically bashing the fish to death before handing you the recently deceased fish for you to carry in a colourless plastic bag.

The rules would come into effect in May 2020.
 
We have our first case here, some woman in her 50s that traveled to Quebec recently when pretty much everyone advised against it.
 
Atlantic article:

The Four Rules of Pandemic Economics: A playbook that should govern America’s short-term reaction to the health crisis

Rule 1: “Save the economy or save lives” is a false choice.
Rule 2: Pay people a living wage to stop working.
Rule 3: Build companies a time machine.
Rule 4: The business of America is now science.


 
I’m also imagining, again hypothetical, local government A issues a 3 month lockdown, while neighbouring local government B does not; I think you would see a lot of people in jurisdiction A trying to skip town and head to jurisdiction B. At which point you would need to use police or military to enforce the lockdown, which I don’t think people would take very well, never mind there would be a lot of constitution waving and arguments over freedom of movement (and I believe we still may get there, if these lockdowns are required for multiple months. Not a guarantee, but I think it’s a possibility).

We tried this in Salt Lake and it lasted all of 6 hours before the governor put a stop to it. They were going to charge people with a misdemeanor if they were out and didn't really bother with thinking through the specifics.

I sort of agree too, I don't want the government confining me to my house under penalty of law. It sets a dangerous precedent going forward that's ripe for abuse. However, I think people should just not be dumb and stick to the guidelines because it's the correct thing to do.

I wonder if this is it, as far as a UK lock-down happens, I don't know about anyone else but anecdotally I see quite a few people out and about walking/running/cycling

The CDC here has said it's fine to be outside as long as you're not in a group of people and you're staying away from each other. I go for roughly a 1.5-mile walk every day with my wife to get some sort of exercise. We rarely see anyone and when we do my wife and I move way over so that there are 6+ feet in between us. Often times the other people do the same thing as well.

I think getting out of your house is important as long as you stick to physical distancing from one another. Not exercising or moving about is bad for your immune system, respiratory system, and your mental health. If we are going to be in a state of "Earth's Close" for the next couple of months, people need to do what they can to stay reasonably active. If we turn into a bunch of couch potatoes it's not going to be good and will contribute to an already taxed healthcare system.
 
The CDC here has said it's fine to be outside as long as you're not in a group of people and you're staying away from each other.

I live in the centre of one of the biggest cities in the country and while it isn't 'busy' there are certain routes that are used by a number of people pretty consistently throughout the day.
 
No, a joke is a joke. I'm talking about deliberate misleading others about the pandemic situation that can cause actual damage. However, even jokes can be harmful at times, and I heard some people had been punished in the Western countries for coronavirus pranks. Here's an example.


Both of you would be sort of right.
The immigrants can bring the virus into the country, indeed. But you could be right too because it's not the only possible cause of the epidemic in the country. These are opinions, not fake news I'm talking about.

Things I'd fine or imprison for include:

- posts like "there are hundreds died from COVID in one hospital, my friend who is a doctor there told me" (but you do not actually have such friend or information) or "I've seen trucks full of bodies, tried to take a video but my battery ran out, just trust me" (nuff said).

- promoting a fake cure for COVID ("cut the onion and garlic into little pieces, mix them, eat it and coronavirus will never infect you!" - yes, my Mom recently sent me something like this, thinking it's real), especially if it's something harmful and/or used to make money. Yes, I would punish Lukashenko (the president of Belarus) who said that vodka cures coronavirus.

- posting about your annoying neighbour "This man is infected with coronavirus and escaped the quarantine, stay away from him!" (but you don't know whether he's been tested positive or not or whether we was quarantined or not).

- knowingly fake reports about food shortage - "the grocery stores are running low on food, we're going to starve to death, the shelves are empty!" when they're actually not. Here's an example of how such fake news are made (language warning for Russian speakers, she swears a lot there):

The guy puts the food into the cart, takes photos of the empty shelves then puts everything back. And goes away to spread panic on the Internet. The people who believe it could run for the stores, buy all the food (and toilet paper, yes) out in panic and cause actual shortage. Such fearmongerers totally deserve punishment IMO.

- denial of the pandemic - "the coronavirus is a hoax invented by Putin / Trump / Xi / the Jews / Illuminati to rewrite the Constituition / enslave our nation / establish the new world order!" or "it's just another flu and kills only old people who were about to die anyway, so there's nothing to worry about!" - and calls for others to ignore the lockdowns and isolation measures. This is debatable whether it's knowignly fake news or not (because such people may be actually believing in the **** they say), but they are a threat in this situation. I'd like these people to be isolated in a loony bin if not in jail until the pandemic ends, at least. Although I'm not sure if there's a legal way to do so.

Anyway, before I posted this, my wish has already been granted - the Russian government has passed the bill about responsibility for fake news. The punishment is 300,000 - 700,000 RUB ($ 3,890 - 9,075) fine or up to 5 years of prison if such news caused damage to someone's health or death.


This needs some correction.
The law you're talking about is about punishment for leaving the quarantine. If someone escapes the quarantine (there were few cases already) he/she was being held in, that person will be fined by 500,000 - 1 million RUB ($ 6,482 - 12,964), depending on the consequences, and if it caused someone else to get infected and die, this will result in 3-7 years of imprisonment (the hardest punishment will be if two or more people died as a result).


Wow. Now everyone who's imprisoned in Russia for whatever reason is a dissident...

Please, read above if you misunderstood it, too.

How?
We have the president on TV telling us scarves are better than masks.
How can we even consider punishing the average person for stupidity or lying when we have this?

If our media were more honest and transparent, less biased, we wouldn't have so many ignorants walking around being ignorant.
 
School closure in Denver just got extended from April 17 to April 30. This is kicking the can down the road, and it wrecks business.

...and 2 days later it's the rest of the school year. Seriously they cancelled school until April 30th on Wed, and today, Friday, they cancel it for the rest of the year. What are these people smoking?
 
What are these people smoking?

I mean it is legal there.

But I totally get what you're saying and it's got to be hard on teachers to keep changing everything around. I do wonder how all this will affect kids going forward? I mean missing half the school year and having some rather meh online learning can't be that beneficial. And kids hoping to snag a sports scholarship are probably worried as well.
 
I mean it is legal there.

But I totally get what you're saying and it's got to be hard on teachers to keep changing everything around. I do wonder how all this will affect kids going forward? I mean missing half the school year and having some rather meh online learning can't be that beneficial. And kids hoping to snag a sports scholarship are probably worried as well.
Perhaps the wiser choice is to repeat this school year.
 
Captain Crozier, commander of the USS Theadore Roosevelt has been relieved of his duty.

I don’t know the full details of the story, but from what I’ve found so far, it appears that there was an outbreak of Covid-19 on his ship. After notifying his chain of command, he felt that the Navy was not responding in the appropriate manner, so he leaked emails to the public about the situation on his ship.

This both violated the chain of command, as well as disclosed classified information about the battle readiness of the USS Roosevelt (which, in these times, is a pretty big deal).

There seems to be a mixed response to the situation, with some people cheering him as a hero for “taking one for the team”, while others are condemning his actions for violating protocols and disclosing classified information.

The sailors, airmen, and crew from the Roosevelt seem to be in favour of his actions.

 
...and 2 days later it's the rest of the school year. Seriously they cancelled school until April 30th on Wed, and today, Friday, they cancel it for the rest of the year. What are these people smoking?

I mean missing half the school year and having some rather meh online learning can't be that beneficial.

Perhaps the wiser choice is to repeat this school year.

I appreciate that I'm only judging by my own experience but I think this deserves a comment.

My wife is an elementary school teacher here in NJ. And my daughter is 14 and in 8th grade. NJ schools first announced voluntary closures, by district before it became a statewide lockdown. Both the school where my wife teaches, and the school my daughter attends (different districts), announced closures for two weeks. Within a week both announced those closures would be extended to the end of April. Today, they both announced that the schools would be closed until he rest of the school year.

It's worse for high school seniors. But I feel badly for my daughter's class as well. 8th grade is a big year for NJ schools. There's a 4 day class trip to Washington DC. which is both an educational and a bonding experience. She's in band and they were invited to perform at a prestigious event. So many first experiences this year will be gone.

One thing I learned from having a wife working as an elementary school teacher, and a concept which was reinforced from having a child in the school system--kids are germ magnets. At least through elementary school, they have NO sense of personal hygiene. It gets better in junior high but not by much. If schools reopen, the epidemic is going to become magnitudes worse. And it should be pretty clear at this point, that we haven't even seen the worst of COVID19 yet. I honestly don't see an alternative to closing the schools for the rest of the year.

My wife is up every morning at 6:00, working on lesson plans and preparations and starting Google Classroom and Zoom by 8:30. She's constantly back and forth all day with other teachers or students for additional one-on-one assistance. And she's usually grading and correcting and preparing the following days lessons until 7:00 pm. She takes one or two breaks during the day but she's literally going non-stop all day long. Just due to the limitations of dong all of this online, she's been working harder and longer hours than she typically worked during a normal work week. Although, she is a particularly devoted teacher. And I'm not just saying that because she's my wife. Granted, since she is an elementary school teacher, she relies on the assistance of parents at home with their kids or it simply wouldn't work. But almost every parent has been cooperative and engaging and contributing and making sure their kids are doing what they should be doing.

Likewise, my daughter is online every day between 8:00 am and 3:30--longer than her typical day in school. And she's often working 1-2 hours per night on longer term projects. And she is also in competition dance (outside of school) and they all practice via Zoom 4 nights per week for 2+ hours a night. The situation is far from ideal and I have no doubt that what my daughter is learning and her overall experience is nowhere near as effective as she would be getting in the classroom. In fact, the principal sent a district wide email out tonight that they were effectively cancelling 'regular' classes on Fridays and using it for a general working/catch-up day since many students were struggling to actually complete all of their assignments. But with maybe one exception, I think all of my daughters teachers have been equally devoted. During a few of my breaks, I've looked in on lessons and her teachers all seem to be going out of their way to make the lessons interesting and creative and as interactive as possible. It's actually heart warming and impressive to see that kind of devotion. They're not sitting back and relaxing. Those are people who are really earning their salaries.

Repeating the school year may be desirable from a perspective of loss and nostalgia. But I don't think it's fair or practical and it negates what can be accomplished with technology and a desire to push forward.
 
Captain Crozier, commander of the USS Theadore Roosevelt has been relieved of his duty.

The sailors, airmen, and crew from the Roosevelt seem to be in favour of his actions.
Me too. What a sad day, among even sadder days.
If our media were more honest and transparent, less biased, we wouldn't have so many ignorants walking around being ignorant.
An example......
"
From above statement......"Take a deep breath and step away from the crisis. Hide the phone and computer from yourself for a while. Step outside for some fresh air. Turn on some music, or read a book. Nome is home for all of us. We are getting through this together."

All good advice but I really like what I quoted.
 
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Captain Crozier, commander of the USS Theadore Roosevelt has been relieved of his duty.

I don’t know the full details of the story, but from what I’ve found so far, it appears that there was an outbreak of Covid-19 on his ship. After notifying his chain of command, he felt that the Navy was not responding in the appropriate manner, so he leaked emails to the public about the situation on his ship.

This both violated the chain of command, as well as disclosed classified information about the battle readiness of the USS Roosevelt (which, in these times, is a pretty big deal).

There seems to be a mixed response to the situation, with some people cheering him as a hero for “taking one for the team”, while others are condemning his actions for violating protocols and disclosing classified information.

The sailors, airmen, and crew from the Roosevelt seem to be in favour of his actions.


Kudos to the Captain, his career is sidelined, unless full pressure is brought on the navy to grant the request and separate the sailors onboard the carrier.
 
One thing I learned from having a wife working as an elementary school teacher, and a concept which was reinforced from having a child in the school system--kids are germ magnets. At least through elementary school, they have NO sense of personal hygiene. It gets better in junior high but not by much. If schools reopen, the epidemic is going to become magnitudes worse. And it should be pretty clear at this point, that we haven't even seen the worst of COVID19 yet. I honestly don't see an alternative to closing the schools for the rest of the year.

Yea kids are super-spreaders for sure. I'm mostly complaining about the kick-the-can method of closing schools. I need to know what I'm dealing with up front, not this dribble dribble crap that leaves me wondering which way to jump. I can align my resources properly if I know what I'm dealing with and for how long. All businesses are in this with schools, because parents can't work as effectively with their kids in their lap. When I say what are they smoking... I mean why would someone announce April 30th and then 2 days later give it almost another month? Get your stuff straight! It's not like coronavirus showed up on wednesday. This is not too much to ask. If it's the end of the school year, don't tell me it's not 5 seconds before you tell me it is.

My wife is up every morning at 6:00, working on lesson plans and preparations and starting Google Classroom and Zoom by 8:30. She's constantly back and forth all day with other teachers or students for additional one-on-one assistance. And she's usually grading and correcting and preparing the following days lessons until 7:00 pm. She takes one or two breaks during the day but she's literally going non-stop all day long. Just due to the limitations of dong all of this online, she's been working harder and longer hours than she typically worked during a normal work week. Although, she is a particularly devoted teacher. And I'm not just saying that because she's my wife. Granted, since she is an elementary school teacher, she relies on the assistance of parents at home with their kids or it simply wouldn't work. But almost every parent has been cooperative and engaging and contributing and making sure their kids are doing what they should be doing.

We're all working like crazy. Now I'm taking care of kids while trying to work full time. It's more than is sustainable.

Repeating the school year may be desirable from a perspective of loss and nostalgia. But I don't think it's fair or practical and it negates what can be accomplished with technology and a desire to push forward.

I don't think repeating the school year is fair to ask of a lot of students. It might be the right choice for some, but others are just going to move forward.
 
01GTP

Every last one of these wasters should never work again in the public eye.

With some luck some may even find themselves on the wrong end of legal action for their idiotic spoutings.

Thankfully, the 1st Amendment doesn't just guarantee the right to free speech, but also alerts us to who the real idiots are. I hope they all get what they deserve.
 
I appreciate that I'm only judging by my own experience but I think this deserves a comment.

My wife is an elementary school teacher here in NJ. And my daughter is 14 and in 8th grade. NJ schools first announced voluntary closures, by district before it became a statewide lockdown. Both the school where my wife teaches, and the school my daughter attends (different districts), announced closures for two weeks. Within a week both announced those closures would be extended to the end of April. Today, they both announced that the schools would be closed until he rest of the school year.

It's worse for high school seniors. But I feel badly for my daughter's class as well. 8th grade is a big year for NJ schools. There's a 4 day class trip to Washington DC. which is both an educational and a bonding experience. She's in band and they were invited to perform at a prestigious event. So many first experiences this year will be gone.

One thing I learned from having a wife working as an elementary school teacher, and a concept which was reinforced from having a child in the school system--kids are germ magnets. At least through elementary school, they have NO sense of personal hygiene. It gets better in junior high but not by much. If schools reopen, the epidemic is going to become magnitudes worse. And it should be pretty clear at this point, that we haven't even seen the worst of COVID19 yet. I honestly don't see an alternative to closing the schools for the rest of the year.

My wife is up every morning at 6:00, working on lesson plans and preparations and starting Google Classroom and Zoom by 8:30. She's constantly back and forth all day with other teachers or students for additional one-on-one assistance. And she's usually grading and correcting and preparing the following days lessons until 7:00 pm. She takes one or two breaks during the day but she's literally going non-stop all day long. Just due to the limitations of dong all of this online, she's been working harder and longer hours than she typically worked during a normal work week. Although, she is a particularly devoted teacher. And I'm not just saying that because she's my wife. Granted, since she is an elementary school teacher, she relies on the assistance of parents at home with their kids or it simply wouldn't work. But almost every parent has been cooperative and engaging and contributing and making sure their kids are doing what they should be doing.

Likewise, my daughter is online every day between 8:00 am and 3:30--longer than her typical day in school. And she's often working 1-2 hours per night on longer term projects. And she is also in competition dance (outside of school) and they all practice via Zoom 4 nights per week for 2+ hours a night. The situation is far from ideal and I have no doubt that what my daughter is learning and her overall experience is nowhere near as effective as she would be getting in the classroom. In fact, the principal sent a district wide email out tonight that they were effectively cancelling 'regular' classes on Fridays and using it for a general working/catch-up day since many students were struggling to actually complete all of their assignments. But with maybe one exception, I think all of my daughters teachers have been equally devoted. During a few of my breaks, I've looked in on lessons and her teachers all seem to be going out of their way to make the lessons interesting and creative and as interactive as possible. It's actually heart warming and impressive to see that kind of devotion. They're not sitting back and relaxing. Those are people who are really earning their salaries.

Repeating the school year may be desirable from a perspective of loss and nostalgia. But I don't think it's fair or practical and it negates what can be accomplished with technology and a desire to push forward.
This is exactly my wife and daughter's experience. My wife is a deputy head at a local private junior school, she starts work at 7.30 am to begin looking after essential workers children until 6.00 pm. My daughter is at the same school but the senior school. They use Chromebooks in all their lessons and all the children have a full school day to complete at home. She has to register for school at 8.50 am and then her usual timetable begins. Her teachers post the work for each lesson 5 mins before the lesson starts to Google Classroom and they are working through it together using chat apps to discuss the topics being taught. They even had an online full school assembly this afternoon.

Thankfully she is being very good about it and just getting on with it which makes my life working from home much easier. Clearly, she is not getting as good an education at the moment as she would be if she were at school but I think what she is getting is more than adequate considering the situation. We are extremely happy, as parents, with how the school are handling the situation and the education they are currently providing. And I know from speaking to my wife just how hard all the teaching staff are working to ensure they provide the best they possibly can for their students.
 

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