COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

  • Thread starter baldgye
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Atypical fevers and symptoms are decreasing in the US, according to internet thermometer data collection. Lockdown, social distancing, quarantine are working. Next, breaking the back of the pandemic.


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Photo: healthweather.us

Zooming in on New York State, the epicenter of the outbreak, shows that the number of fever readings are down there too, though not as much as in some other places.

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Photo: healthweather.us
Fevers in Manhattan are down 4.4 percent across the past seven days. Over the same time period, they’re down 4.1 percent in Kings County, 4.9 percent in Queens County, and 4.5 percent in Bronx County.

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The trends in Florida show a particularly stark drop in fevers. The state was among the slowest to respond to the coronavirus crisis, with Governor Ron DeSantis relying on a patchwork of local measures rather than imposing statewide orders. On March 20, he finally ordered restaurants and gyms closed, days after shuttering bars and nightclubs. While the daily tallies of new confirmed cases and deaths coming out of Florida is grim — 6,338 cases and 77 deaths as of Tuesday morning — the fever data shows a more promising trend.

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Photo: healthweather.us
Kinsa’s data show that the number of “atypical fevers” in places such as Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach Counties is high, but the rate of fever is down at least 12.8 percent in each county over the last week.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/maps-show-fevers-are-down-a-sign-coronavirus-is-slowing.html
 
killerjimbag
Really,do you think Westerners are stupid ? Yeah they had protests in "Ontario" that shut down the whole country. It was a Western problem? Alberta spent almost 4 billion on oil sands. How's that working out. How many jobs did that 4 billion make? Zero. Notta, Zilch. I can't stand the jackass Trudumb either but to think Westerners wouldn't comply. Make some common sense man.
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The protests were nation wide. There was people blockading the entrance to be BC parliament buildings in Victoria. There was rail and highway shutdowns in Alberta, and Albertans were some of the first start removing the blockades (and getting arrested for removing the illegal blockades). Rail lines in the maritimes were also shut down. Where you’re getting this “it was an Ontario thing” from, I have no idea.

I also think people are using the social/political atmosphere of TODAY (ie now that we know the extent of this covid business) to assess how people would have acted 1-2 months ago. The social/political atmosphere of today is not what it was 2 months ago.

You realize there is a growing “Wexit” movement in western Canada, with Alberta, Sask, and Manitoba wanting to separate from Canada. What on earth makes you think those people would comply with a Trudeau issued stay at home order that would have been issued at perhaps the most hyper-partisan era in Canadian political history?

Even the federal government’s emergency economic packages are being challenged in parliament, because Trudeau and Morneau have been making promises that are not legal under Canadian law. If financial aid is being challenged in parliament, you really think a liberal issued nation wide lock down would not be challenged in parliament?
 
Liquid


And in the last 24 hours I have learnt that the Governor of Georgia is a moron.
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Have to give credit where it's due, Florida are doing a good job of wiping themselves out. Their commitment to sepukku is admirable.
 
twitcher
Again, I don’t disagree that it’s a failure of leadership (but I’d argue no more a failure than what’s happening in Canada). But I do feel they were stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I also don’t think it’s that I have a small opinion of people, it’s just that I think large potions of the American population don’t like listening to their government....especially when it comes to listening to orders given by Trump.

I’m trying to imagine Trump issuing a somewhat preemptive/preventative nation wide lockdown, say March 1 through May 31 (hot on the heals of his impeachment). What do you think the reaction of the likes of Rachel Maddow, Brian Stelter, AOC, Rashida “impeach the mother-🤬” Talib, etc would be? Do you think they would have had nothing to say? Do you think they would support Trump? Keep in mind that many democrats (eg de Blasio) were down playing this virus well into March.

Even if Trump had acted like a leader, I don’t think those who oppose him would have afforded him the opportunity to lead. If that makes me cynical, so be it.

I can tell you from the vibes I get in western Canada, if Trudeau had tried to issue a multi-month, nation wide lock down, enforceable by law (hot on the heals of failing to enforce the rule of law regarding pipeline protests), I think there would be many in western Canada who would not comply, simply because of who issued the order.
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In the US, requests or orders for lockdown, quarantine and social distancing are issued first of all by governors and county executives, mayors and schools boards. IMH, the people have been overall very responsive to their requests. The proof is in the reduction of fevers and hospitalizations.
 
twitcher
I’m trying to imagine Trump issuing a somewhat preemptive/preventative nation wide lockdown, say March 1 through May 31 (hot on the heals of his impeachment). What do you think the reaction of the likes of Rachel Maddow, Brian Stelter, AOC, Rashida “impeach the mother-🤬” Talib, etc would be? Do you think they would have had nothing to say? Do you think they would support Trump? Keep in mind that many democrats (eg de Blasio) were down playing this virus well into March.
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That would have been stupid. Huge swaths of the country didn't have C19 at that point. You need it to spread to flatten the curve. That would just delay the peak in those places, not flatten it.

twitcher
Even if Trump had acted like a leader, I don’t think those who oppose him would have afforded him the opportunity to lead. If that makes me cynical, so be it.
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I was specifically complaining about my local government and local governments like it (which is all of them).
 
Trump writes a letter to New York Senator Chuck Schumer. "... I never knew how bad a Senator you are for the state of New York, until I became President."

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twitcher
So if I make a joke that the Earth is flat, even though I know it’s not, I should be fined or imprisoned?

If I make a joke that Corona is an an anagram for Racoon (yes, I know raccoon has two Cs lol), that a Chinese bio lab who’s name roughly translates to Umbrella and has a logo that looks almost identical to that of the Umbrella Corporation from Resident Evil, is responsible for starting the zombie apocalypse....which is probably not true....I should be imprisoned or fined?
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No, a joke is a joke. I'm talking about deliberate misleading others about the pandemic situation that can cause actual damage. However, even jokes can be harmful at times, and I heard some people had been punished in the Western countries for coronavirus pranks. Here's an example.

twitcher
What about if Orban says spread of Covid-19 is the fault of immigrants, and I say “that’s just not true”. Should I be imprisoned or fined? Should Orban be imprisoned for spreading fake news?
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Both of you would be sort of right.
The immigrants can bring the virus into the country, indeed. But you could be right too because it's not the only possible cause of the epidemic in the country. These are opinions, not fake news I'm talking about.

Things I'd fine or imprison for include:

- posts like "there are hundreds died from COVID in one hospital, my friend who is a doctor there told me" (but you do not actually have such friend or information) or "I've seen trucks full of bodies, tried to take a video but my battery ran out, just trust me" (nuff said).

- promoting a fake cure for COVID ("cut the onion and garlic into little pieces, mix them, eat it and coronavirus will never infect you!" - yes, my Mom recently sent me something like this, thinking it's real), especially if it's something harmful and/or used to make money. Yes, I would punish Lukashenko (the president of Belarus) who said that vodka cures coronavirus.

- posting about your annoying neighbour "This man is infected with coronavirus and escaped the quarantine, stay away from him!" (but you don't know whether he's been tested positive or not or whether we was quarantined or not).

- knowingly fake reports about food shortage - "the grocery stores are running low on food, we're going to starve to death, the shelves are empty!" when they're actually not. Here's an example of how such fake news are made (language warning for Russian speakers, she swears a lot there):

The guy puts the food into the cart, takes photos of the empty shelves then puts everything back. And goes away to spread panic on the Internet. The people who believe it could run for the stores, buy all the food (and toilet paper, yes) out in panic and cause actual shortage. Such fearmongerers totally deserve punishment IMO.

- denial of the pandemic - "the coronavirus is a hoax invented by Putin / Trump / Xi / the Jews / Illuminati to rewrite the Constituition / enslave our nation / establish the new world order!" or "it's just another flu and kills only old people who were about to die anyway, so there's nothing to worry about!" - and calls for others to ignore the lockdowns and isolation measures. This is debatable whether it's knowignly fake news or not (because such people may be actually believing in the **** they say), but they are a threat in this situation. I'd like these people to be isolated in a loony bin if not in jail until the pandemic ends, at least. Although I'm not sure if there's a legal way to do so.

Anyway, before I posted this, my wish has already been granted - the Russian government has passed the bill about responsibility for fake news. The punishment is 300,000 - 700,000 RUB ($ 3,890 - 9,075) fine or up to 5 years of prison if such news caused damage to someone's health or death.

Touring Mars
Russia is threatening to jail anyone responsible for causing someone else to become infected and die from COVID-19 for seven years. Pretty difficult to prove, but also a pretty serious deterrent to anyone thinking about ignoring health advice being promoted around the globe by people who know what they are talking about. As such, though it is perhaps unlikely to ever be enforced, it is at least a good sign that Russia are taking this deadly seriously.
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This needs some correction.
The law you're talking about is about punishment for leaving the quarantine. If someone escapes the quarantine (there were few cases already) he/she was being held in, that person will be fined by 500,000 - 1 million RUB ($ 6,482 - 12,964), depending on the consequences, and if it caused someone else to get infected and die, this will result in 3-7 years of imprisonment (the hardest punishment will be if two or more people died as a result).

baldgye
Isn't this just another 'legal' way to remove dissidents?
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Wow. Now everyone who's imprisoned in Russia for whatever reason is a dissident...

Please, read above if you misunderstood it, too.
 
Dotini
In the US, requests or orders for lockdown, quarantine and social distancing are issued first of all by governors and county executives, mayors and schools boards. IMH, the people have been overall very responsive to their requests. The proof is in the reduction of fevers and hospitalizations.
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Yes, agreed, people do tend to be more open to listening to local governments as opposed to the Feds.

Even there though, in the majority of cases, local governments have somewhat slowly rolled out the these measures, which in my opinion, has made people more accepting of them. If local governments would have went “0-100” with the lockdowns, and issued them for multiple months, I don’t think people would be as responsive. Just my opinion though.

I’m also imagining, again hypothetical, local government A issues a 3 month lockdown, while neighbouring local government B does not; I think you would see a lot of people in jurisdiction A trying to skip town and head to jurisdiction B. At which point you would need to use police or military to enforce the lockdown, which I don’t think people would take very well, never mind there would be a lot of constitution waving and arguments over freedom of movement (and I believe we still may get there, if these lockdowns are required for multiple months. Not a guarantee, but I think it’s a possibility).

Danoff
That would have been stupid. Huge swaths of the country didn't have C19 at that point. You need it to spread to flatten the curve. That would just delay the peak in those places, not flatten it.



I was specifically complaining about my local government and local governments like it (which is all of them).
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If you were talking local and not federal, that’s my bad for misunderstanding.
 
In rather stark contrast to the Japanese Deputy PM’s comments where he said the WHO should be renamed the Chinese Health Organization, Canada’s Health Minister says that claims of China’s data being inaccurate is feeding into conspiracy theories.



The Dr Bruce Aylward she mentions is the gentleman who doesn’t want to talk about Taiwan, from a few pages back.

I agree with her that this pandemic is a world problem that no country can isolate from, but for now at least, Canada and Japan seem to have different opinions on China’s (and the WHO’s) handling of the Coronavirus outbreak.
 
I'm going to assume the guy from my work that tested positive, worked in the powertrain department. Because they've closed off that building and nobody is allowed in there. Surprising since he hasn't been anywhere near it for a whole month. Meanwhile I'm practicing max social distancing by being the only person working in my building every night. :P It's rather peaceful.

We've been given these letters to keep in our cars in case we get pulled over. I passed a Sheriff last night after 1am and he didn't seem to care...

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Weird how we're considered "critical manufacturing" even though the assembly plants are shut down.
 
Hua Chunying, Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Director General, Department of Information, responds to the defective mask story from the Netherlands

 
Rage Racer
Wow. Now everyone who's imprisoned in Russia for whatever reason is a dissident...
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No, that isn’t what I said... but I think it’s funny how worried you are about the spreading of fake news, when this is literally Russia’s most powerful tool
 
Danoff
You have a very small opinion of people. And I think you underestimate how much damage this causes, and just how much of a failure of leadership it is.
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My "friend" is making facebook posts of a plane in the sky,(which can't even be seen) saying they better stop flying over his house, or else.
You may not know crazy, but I do.

There is absolutely no way in frozen hell we could have suddenly enforced a 3 month ban without a full scale civil war.

You don't know the rednecks. TOTAL civil war. 50% or more of the people I know STILL think this is all an overblown reaction and probably hoax. Also, they're gunna take are gunzzzz! (Yes, are) sigh.
 
I have to say, I'm pretty surprised the lock-down rules haven't been pushed further already.

I wonder if this is it, as far as a UK lock-down happens, I don't know about anyone else but anecdotally I see quite a few people out and about walking/running/cycling
 
baldgye
I have to say, I'm pretty surprised the lock-down rules haven't been pushed further already.

I wonder if this is it, as far as a UK lock-down happens, I don't know about anyone else but anecdotally I see quite a few people out and about walking/running/cycling
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I agree. Looks like we are on course for more deaths than any other country apart from the US but when I look outside or when I'm taking the dog for a walk the one time I do (Mrs does the other one) it looks to me like it's a normal day at times. Lots of people don't seem to understand. I see the same groups of people taking their dogs for a walk completely ignoring social distancing and an unbelievable number of kids playing in the streets.

Liquid


And in the last 24 hours I have learnt that the Governor of Georgia is a moron.
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How is that possible!
 
ULTRAVIOLENZZ
China Concealed Extent of Virus Outbreak, U.S. Intelligence Says.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/news/worl...intelligence-says/ar-BB123Ei3?ocid=spartanntp
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Estimates are that China has 15x to 40x the numbers of infections and deaths it has reported. But so what? Is this any surprise? Does it make any real difference? If China had been playing 100% straight with the truth from the beginning, does anyone seriously think the West would have actually taken the effort and expense necessary to accelerate its preparations and responses? IMHO, yes, but probably not by much. Chinese satraps such as WHO, numerous media and industries have also successful inveigled and undermined Western responses. But again, so what? A tiger does not change its stripes. At the end of the day, we alone are responsible for our fate and destiny. The kindness or simple human mercy of competitors and enemies cannot be counted upon - ever.
 
baldgye
If the infection rate had been reported accurately and correctly the rest of the world might have sprung into action quicker and with more deft. If China tried to doctor its figures and then this resulted in the rest of the world not taking it as seriously... then that's a pretty massive international **** up.
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Let that be a lesson in reality.
 
Dotini
Let that be a lesson in reality.
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A lesson for who?
If the figures where faked then China will probably encounter some sort of sanctions, that'll only really impact the poorest of Chinese people, while tens of thousands of people die around the world because the Chinese government wanted to save face... a government that'll remain in power.
Meanwhile governments around the world who openly belittled Corona-virus get an out (thinking of Bojo who boasted about shaking the hands of people with Corona-virus)...
 
baldgye
If the infection rate had been reported accurately and correctly the rest of the world might have sprung into action quicker and with more deft. If China tried to doctor its figures and then this resulted in the rest of the world not taking it as seriously... then that's a pretty massive international **** up.
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There's a slight problem with this. No country in the world can report the actual infection rate 'correctly' - they can only report their own detected/confirmed cases, the criteria for which varies from country to country. Some estimates of the number of infections in the UK suggest that around 1.5 million people have or have already had the virus... that's 50x higher than the confirmed cases, and it could even be an underestimate. Are the UK concealing anything? No. It's just not possible to know the real infection rate.

China may well have tried to cover up the initial outbreak, but the question is how much of difference this would have made. @Dotini is likely right to say that other countries would not have acted much differently, and even then it would only have delayed the arrival of the virus by a few weeks in any case.... it is clearly hard enough to convince some people/politicians/countries what the right course of action is... and the right course of action is inherently uncertain anyway.

At worst, I reckon China's reporting of new cases/deaths in the last few weeks has been very suspicious (i.e. damn near impossible), but that everywhere else should be more concerned with how to deal with the outbreak as opposed to pointing fingers and threatening China with legal action (or worse) because the outbreak began there.
 
Touring Mars
There's a slight problem with this. No country in the world can report the actual infection rate 'correctly' - they can only report their own detected/confirmed cases, the criteria for which varies from country to country. Some estimates of the number of infections in the UK suggest that around 1.5 million people have or have already had the virus... that's 50x higher than the confirmed cases, and it could even be an underestimate. Are the UK concealing anything? No. It's just not possible to know the real infection rate.

China may well have tried to cover up the initial outbreak, but the question is how much of difference this would have made. @Dotini is likely right to say that other countries would not have acted much differently, and even then it would only have delayed the arrival of the virus by a few weeks in any case.... it is clearly hard enough to convince some people/politicians/countries what the right course of action is... and the right course of action is inherently uncertain anyway.

At worst, I reckon China's reporting of new cases/deaths in the last few weeks has been very suspicious (i.e. damn near impossible), but that everywhere else should be more concerned with how to deal with the outbreak as opposed to pointing fingers and threatening China with legal action (or worse) because the outbreak began there.
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I'm aware, but there is a (large) difference between reporting the best figures you have and saying; "it's probably a lot higher", which is what our gov is doing and doctoring figures.
I agree, it probably wouldn't have had a dramatic effect... but it shifts blame of the response away from those who are responsible. If China has been making **** up, then our government can be like "hey we just did our best, the real problem is China!"...

...and if almost like I'd planned it;

Coronavirus: Boris Johnson ignored expert evidence over pandemic, says ex-chief scientific adviser
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-nhs-china-uk-cases-outbreak-a9443191.html
 

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