COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[DesertPenguin]

 

[twitcher]

So, update on the USS Roosevelt ordeal.
Thomas Modly, the Secretary of the Navy, has resigned, after his comments referring to Cpt Crozier as “naive or stupid” were leaked.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html


Not exactly a great time for the US Navy to be in disarray, with China making claims of US aggression in the South China Sea.

 

[Jezza819]

I didn't want to see this happen but I was pretty sure it would. This really sucks...

Yeah his wife Fiona also had the coronavirus but she recovered. She had said he was stable but still on a ventilator and I just feared it wasn't going get much better. So sad. Such a huge legendary song writer.

 

[twitcher]

This is a website that tracks global Covid-19 numbers.

Edit: I didn’t realize, not only does it show global numbers, as well as numbers for each country, at the very top, there is a drop down menu that lets you select an individual country, which then gives you a regional breakdown of each respective country (state by state for the US, provincial for Canada, etc).

https://ncov2019.live/

And a short video about the 17 year old who created it

 

[strela]

Not every place is experiencing a bed shortage. In Utah, we're projecting to have more than enough beds and ventilators. We can't be the only state that's projecting this either since there's nothing really special about Utah other than we're in the top 5 states in the number of tests per capita. We're not even in a state-mandated lockdown like 41 other states are and many people are still going about their lives.

Than I guess you are just in the early stages. The virus is highly contagious and the percentage of people that need hospital treatment is pretty high too. To claim that you wont have problems if you continue to go on with your lives is just delusional.

 

[Veinz]

I feel like I have a cold so I called into work. Even if you have a smokers cough they won’t let you in. I have to get ahold of the company nurse to see if I can return in 48 hours or 14 days.

Quebec is really getting hammered. I don’t understand how it got so bad there compared to Ontario. My co-workers from there are not allowed to cross into Ontario at all.

I also keep getting calls and texts from scammers. Can someone order a drone strike on these people already?

 

[fortbo]

Than I guess you are just in the early stages. The virus is highly contagious and the percentage of people that need hospital treatment is pretty high too. To claim that you wont have problems if you continue to go on with your lives is just delusional.

Not quite. There’s quite a few areas in our country where this virus is really going to be a non issue. The biggest thing is that these areas don’t have a big opportunity for the virus to spread to large amounts of people at once which will cause the virus to slowly die out in that area before infecting many people. Areas that don’t rely on mass amounts of public transportation like in big cities will not be hit nearly as hard by the virus.

 

[twitcher]

I feel like I have a cold so I called into work. Even if you have a smokers cough they won’t let you in. I have to get ahold of the company nurse to see if I can return in 48 hours or 14 days.

Quebec is really getting hammered. I don’t understand how it got so bad there compared to Ontario. My co-workers from there are not allowed to cross into Ontario at all.

I also keep getting calls and texts from scammers. Can someone order a drone strike on these people already?

I haven’t been to Quebec since 2006, so perhaps it’s different now, but could the smoking culture have something to do with it? I’ve no idea if it’s currently as prevalent as it used to be.

 

[strela]

Not quite. There’s quite a few areas in our country where this virus is really going to be a non issue. The biggest thing is that these areas don’t have a big opportunity for the virus to spread to large amounts of people at once which will cause the virus to slowly die out in that area before infecting many people. Areas that don’t rely on mass amounts of public transportation like in big cities will not be hit nearly as hard by the virus.

I guess you are right. If you live in smaller communities you are less likely to get infected. That is also a reason why in US every state has different standards, I guess. But be aware, it doesn't take much to get into a major crisis. In Italy only 0.2% of population got infected and the system almost collapsed. I can't even imagine what would happen if 0.5% got the virus.

 

[Danoff]

Than I guess you are just in the early stages. The virus is highly contagious and the percentage of people that need hospital treatment is pretty high too. To claim that you wont have problems if you continue to go on with your lives is just delusional.

Who is claiming that?

 

[twitcher]

Not all regions and areas will be effected the same. With each passing day, as more is learned about COVID-19, more questions arise as well. There seems to be massive inconsistencies in both infection rates, and death tolls, from one region to the next. This comes from lack of understanding of the virus itself, as well as inconsistencies on how various countries are reporting numbers.

For example, why does New York have ~142,000 cases, while New Jersey only has ~44,000 cases. Why has California managed to keep their numbers relatively low, when, in early March, San Fransisco actually had more cases of COVID than NYC did (is climate involved? Car culture vs public transport culture?)

Why are the number of cases in the Canadian province of Quebec now starting to skyrocket, while neighbouring Ontario still has roughly half the numbers Quebec does, and the neighbouring Maritime provinces are all still in triple digit numbers?

Germany has had a very low reported mortality rate, but I’ve read that they are recording numbers differently than the US for example. In Germany, deaths are only listed as caused by Covid if the death is actually caused by Covid. In the US, if a person dies with Covid (not necessarily because of Covid), they are listed as having died from Covid.

Here’s a clip of Dr Brix explaining the US’s “liberal” approach to tracking Covid death numbers (yes, I know Cernovich is controversial, his tweet just happens to be the first one that comes up when I searched “Dr Brix”)



Not trying to imply a conspiracy involving padding numbers, just using the video to illustrate that not every country is recording deaths in the same manner.

 

[Joey D]

Than I guess you are just in the early stages. The virus is highly contagious and the percentage of people that need hospital treatment is pretty high too. To claim that you wont have problems if you continue to go on with your lives is just delusional.

I didn't claim we weren't going to have problems. I said we're projecting not to have a bed shortage. People are still getting sick and people are still needing intensive care. However, we're prepared and using the data models, we're not in any danger of getting overran at this time. I sit in meetings (or rather on the phone) daily with some of the smartest people in the state who are figuring this stuff out. They know more than I will ever know about it and if they're saying we're projected to have enough resources, I'm inclined to believe them since this is what they've done for 10, 20, 30, plus years.

Not everywhere is like Italy, just as not everywhere is like Utah. There are thousands of factors that play into it all this and to suggest "you're going to have problems no matter what" is wrong. Some areas will have major problems, others won't, while others might have a moderate issue that's quickly dealt with and some others might find themselves in a complete collapse.

Not quite. There’s quite a few areas in our country where this virus is really going to be a non issue. The biggest thing is that these areas don’t have a big opportunity for the virus to spread to large amounts of people at once which will cause the virus to slowly die out in that area before infecting many people. Areas that don’t rely on mass amounts of public transportation like in big cities will not be hit nearly as hard by the virus.

This is a good point. We rely heavily on mass transit in Salt Lake, however with fewer people working in the city right now ridership is way down. The city has also made parking more or less free across the board so people who'd normally take a bus, train or tram into the city are just driving their own vehicles. My guess is places like NYC can't do this and even if they did, I'm not sure how many people actually own a car to begin with. I don't know many people who live in NYC-metro, but none of the ones I know have a car. My hunch is that in Europe being able to drive to your job is even less of an option, but I don't know that for sure.

 

[fortbo]

Germany has had a very low reported mortality rate, but I’ve read that they are recording numbers differently than the US for example. In Germany, deaths are only listed as caused by Covid if the death is actually caused by Covid. In the US, if a person dies with Covid (not necessarily because of Covid), they are listed as having died from Covid.

This is one of the main issues with the current projections at this point. You can't create a mortality rate out of selective testing combined with deaths not being recorded properly. It's basic statistics.

 

[Danoff]

Not quite. There’s quite a few areas in our country where this virus is really going to be a non issue. The biggest thing is that these areas don’t have a big opportunity for the virus to spread to large amounts of people at once which will cause the virus to slowly die out in that area before infecting many people. Areas that don’t rely on mass amounts of public transportation like in big cities will not be hit nearly as hard by the virus.

However...

There are sometimes unexpected congregations of people where the infection spreads. Your first instinct might be to say that skiing, for example, is fairly isolated. Everyone has a face covering, nobody is too close to anybody else, everyone is outdoors in the cold where droplets don't last long. Nobody can touch their face because their face is covered and their hand is covered. Sounds perfect right?

Our ski resorts had a big outbreak, it was the first area in Colorado that really got hit. That's partly because, as might be expected, travelers brought it in to ski resorts. But there's another factor... people dine in tight groups at ski resorts. The lodges, in some cases, pack people into very tight spaces to eat. Folks are eating right on top of each other and all around the floor and against the walls. It's basically a recipe for spreading the virus.

So you might think "gosh, mass transit is not going to be an issue out there". And then realize "gosh church is going to be a huge issue out there".

 

[zzz_pt]

Anyone following Bret Weinstein's Dark horse podcast?

Yesterday's episode was very interesting. Apparently some doctors and nurses in the frontlines as well as at least a paper (non peer reviewed atm because there's a lot of things going on) suggest that the ventilators are not actually a solution because the issue might not be lack of oxigen but a deeper problem associated with the destruction of hemoglobin, effectively leaving people with no resources to carry O2 throughout the organism. A doctor equated the state people get to while on ventilators as if they were at high altitude.

I'm not a doctor or a biologist but it did make sense to me when I heard it explained by Bret and Heather.

Here's the podcast:

 

[EngieDiesel]

From the "obscenely rich people doing good things" category, Apple is donating 20 million face shields (of their own design, interestingly enough) to health care workers.

 

[DesertPenguin]

That's good to hear. Tesla is doing stuff too and so are most of the UK based F1 teams. Plenty of others are doing what they can.

Can Apple not do anything good for society without smelling their own farts? C'mon, you do something good for the world and tout at the same time that you made a new version. Even calling it the iMask, of course...

 

[c172fccc]

Quebec is really getting hammered. I don’t understand how it got so bad there compared to Ontario. My co-workers from there are not allowed to cross into Ontario at all.

Why are the number of cases in the Canadian province of Quebec now starting to skyrocket, while neighbouring Ontario still has roughly half the numbers Quebec does, and the neighbouring Maritime provinces are all still in triple digit numbers?

Pretty sure the issue was that we had our spring break ‎March 2 to 9, before the Covid was really a concern in Canada.

 

[strela]

Who is claiming that?

Those smart people.

I didn't claim we weren't going to have problems. I said we're projecting not to have a bed shortage. People are still getting sick and people are still needing intensive care. However, we're prepared and using the data models, we're not in any danger of getting overran at this time. I sit in meetings (or rather on the phone) daily with some of the smartest people in the state who are figuring this stuff out. They know more than I will ever know about it and if they're saying we're projected to have enough resources, I'm inclined to believe them since this is what they've done for 10, 20, 30

Why do I have this dejavu feeling? Oh, yes... Same things happened here. Before the outbreak we were told to support the Chinese community wich was fine for the time, then the first couple of tourist from China was recovered resulting positive to covid19. Then all the media start spreading fake news about how innocent the virus is. Only when the things got 🤬 they start to force people to social distant themselves.
Maybe in Utah there won't be any major problems. But you simply can't ignore the fact that caring on with your life and this tipe of virus can't go together without major problems. Nobody is prepared for the worst.

 

[01GTP]

Uh... what are you basing this on? It's effect is small but not negated? The cost is huge! If the effect is small, and the cost is huge... let's stop.

My opinion is keep saving lives whatever means necessary. I believe my local and state leaders are doing just that.
Seems we have a different price tag on human life.
Some reading for you
https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...onomy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248#6
https://www.politico.com/news/magaz...onomy-reopen-deaths-balance-analysis-159248#1

From one of those pages and my point of view that may differ from yours. Not judging of course.

In some cases, the calculus has to be driven not by a set of numbers, but by our values.

Who is claiming that?

You are talking about having no problem with the health care system in your area, yes? Which would only be related to people needing hospitalization compared to the beds available . More beds (and staff) than people needing them, no problem. New York on the other hand, yeah big problem. Regional yes.

My wife gets this, she'll most likely die from it. We all need to do our part to keep others safe, that's obvious.

#StayhomeStaysafe

 

[HenrySwanson]

They first started me on Lisonopril and the cough was much worse plus I had a bad reaction to it that made my tongue swell up and it was very painful so they determined I'm allergic to it. As far as I know it's the only thing I am allergic to.

Now they have me on Norvasc. I've been on it for close to 2 years. The cough just a few times a day and maybe only one or two coughs but nowadays I don't want it misunderstood for something much worse.

Makes sense they'd switch to a different class of drug but interesting you still have a cough (albeit much reduced).

Same, although it did kill my kidney function from 95% to 60, but at the same time it can protect your kidneys too my GP said. I will wait to see the specialist to get the full breakdown on what it does. Having polycystic kidneys I was going to see my kidneys fail over time anyway.

That class of drugs have a strange relationship with the kidneys in that they can be protective for chronic kidney conditions but can cause acute damage in the form of AKI (acute kidney injury), and may in fact be witheld temporarily should that arise.

 

[Joey D]

Why do I have this dejavu feeling? Oh, yes... Same things happened here. Before the outbreak we were told to support the Chinese community wich was fine for the time, then the first couple of tourist from China was recovered resulting positive to covid19. Then all the media start spreading fake news about how innocent the virus is. Only when the things got 🤬 they start to force people to social distant themselves.
Maybe in Utah there won't be any major problems. But you simply can't ignore the fact that caring on with your life and this tipe of virus can't go together without major problems. Nobody is prepared for the worst.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying that to blanketly say everyone in every region will encounter major problems is completely false. Some areas are doing a much better job of managing things than others. Some areas are woefully unprepared compared to others and some populations are just more prone to infection. There are thousands of factors at play.

 

[Blitz24]

I didn't claim we weren't going to have problems. I said we're projecting not to have a bed shortage. People are still getting sick and people are still needing intensive care. However, we're prepared and using the data models, we're not in any danger of getting overran at this time. I sit in meetings (or rather on the phone) daily with some of the smartest people in the state who are figuring this stuff out. They know more than I will ever know about it and if they're saying we're projected to have enough resources, I'm inclined to believe them since this is what they've done for 10, 20, 30, plus years.

Not everywhere is like Italy, just as not everywhere is like Utah. There are thousands of factors that play into it all this and to suggest "you're going to have problems no matter what" is wrong. Some areas will have major problems, others won't, while others might have a moderate issue that's quickly dealt with and some others might find themselves in a complete collapse.



This is a good point. We rely heavily on mass transit in Salt Lake, however with fewer people working in the city right now ridership is way down. The city has also made parking more or less free across the board so people who'd normally take a bus, train or tram into the city are just driving their own vehicles. My guess is places like NYC can't do this and even if they did, I'm not sure how many people actually own a car to begin with. I don't know many people who live in NYC-metro, but none of the ones I know have a car. My hunch is that in Europe being able to drive to your job is even less of an option, but I don't know that for sure.

*Raises hand* I live just outside of NYC but I always commuted to Jersey City by train due to cost and time (cheaper and faster to take the train). However, that stopped about a month ago and I won't be going back to that office again.

 

[strela]

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying that to blanketly say everyone in every region will encounter major problems is completely false. Some areas are doing a much better job of managing things than others. Some areas are woefully unprepared compared to others and some populations are just more prone to infection. There are thousands of factors at play.

Look at what is going on all over the planet. I am reading the same news. When virus outbreaks people are asked to stay home. Every single doctor or nurse that have anything to do with covid are imploring people to stay home. Are they all really exaggerating?
In Trieste we began social distance when there was 4 or 6 cases. The police fined more than 1000 persons for breaking the instance, which helped somehow... We now have 800 infected. Mostly in self-isolation. No major issue yet. Would it be the same if all the people caried on? Who knows? Did the police acted wrong?

 

[girabyt3]

Quarantine extended 'till April 26th over here, and OVER 1000+ new cases in 24 hours... Why a small-but-good bunch of my country has to be a BUNCH of morons... . We're in night lockdown and STILL go out!!

 

[Joey D]

Look at what is going on all over the planet. I am reading the same news. When virus outbreaks people are asked to stay home. Every single doctor or nurse that have anything to do with covid are imploring people to stay home. Are they all really exaggerating?
In Trieste we began social distance when there was 4 or 6 cases. The police fined more than 1000 persons for breaking the instance, which helped somehow... We now have 800 infected. Mostly in self-isolation. No major issue yet. Would it be the same if all the people caried on? Who knows? Did the police acted wrong?

Where do you keep getting that I'm saying this is no big deal and that things are being exaggerated? I'm saying some areas are going to be worse than other areas and that it's incorrect to say every place will have a major problem. COVID-19 is a big deal, but just because it is a big deal doesn't mean every single region will suffer the same fate. Some areas are just more prepared than others to handle it.

Dr. Facui is even impressed with how we're handling everything in Utah:

 

[CSLACR]

So, update on the USS Roosevelt ordeal.
Thomas Modly, the Secretary of the Navy, has resigned, after his comments referring to Cpt Crozier as “naive or stupid” were leaked.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/modly-resign-crozier-esper-trump/index.html


Not exactly a great time for the US Navy to be in disarray, with China making claims of US aggression in the South China Sea.

Should China really be complaining about anything at all right now?

 

[Danoff]

Those smart people.

What? That makes no sense.

My opinion is keep saving lives whatever means necessary. I believe my local and state leaders are doing just that.
Seems we have a different price tag on human life.

And how many lives does a wrecked global economy cost?

You are talking about having no problem with the health care system in your area, yes?

No.

Which would only be related to people needing hospitalization compared to the beds available .

Ventilators are more important than beds.

New York on the other hand, yeah big problem. Regional yes.

Highly. None of that argues that keeping school children, who don't seem to actually catch the virus (at nearly the rate of other demos), out of school, is a great idea.

My wife gets this, she'll most likely die from it. We all need to do our part to keep others safe, that's obvious.

#StayhomeStaysafe

Then you and she need to do your part to keep yourselves isolated. Her life depends on it.

 

[twitcher]

Should China really be complaining about anything at all right now?

I understand your point, but ultimately, regardless of COVID, if any country is violating Chinese sovereign waters, then yes, they have a right to complain

That said, the whole South China Sea situation is a gong show, and if anything happens, no matter what happens, it will be a big game of “Point the finger”, meaning no one will take responsibility for first action, and everyone will claim “the other guy started it”.

 

[01GTP]

And how many lives does a wrecked global economy cost?

I can only give you numbers for the USA as I only know the numbers for this country. As stated before, which you must have overlooked, forgot or didn't bother to read, in two different posts here.

I'll run through this somewhat quick for you. The VSL is $10,000,000/human life, multiply that by (if we are to save 2.5 million human lives) 2.5 million human lives for a whopping $25,000,000,000,000, yes 25 trillion. And of course this is all speculation but not my opinion.
From one of the many articles............

The difference in the GDP reduction of these two scenarios—the 2 percent decline in the scenario without social distancing, and the 6.2 percent with social distancing, with a three-year recovery time in both scenarios—is $8.8 trillion. That’s our estimate of the hit that the United State GDP will take over the course of three years from social distancing lasting into the summer months this year.

But remember, the value of lives saved was $12.2 trillion. This rapid benefit-cost analysis suggests the net benefits—benefits from lives saved minus costs from GDP loss—amounts to $3.4 trillion dollars. Our results suggest that social distancing passes a cost-benefit test.

No.

Ok.

Ventilators are more important than beds.

I should have elaborated more for you. I listen too much to Gov. Cuomo and he refers to ICU beds as ones needing ventilators. In that last post I was referring to beds as the same thing as ventilators. My bad. Let me be clearer and as you already know ventilators are more important but if there are no beds available then basically neither are ventilators. We don't need to go into all the different setups and areas that have both/neither on ships on land,whatever. The way I read your statement was that there is no problem in your area with beds, or ventilators, correct?

Highly. None of that argues that keeping school children, who don't seem to actually catch the virus (at nearly the rate of other demos), out of school, is a great idea.

To start with none of virus stuff is great. No one wants this to be happening. If you don't understand that social distancing is working, which schooling is part of, then you really need to educate yourself with what is actually happening, it's not only my opinion but it's what our nation's leading doctors and experts are saying, unless the media outlets and all the (must be actors) experts are lying. Today's news cycle is praising the distancing.

You seem to forget in your statement that even if (according to you, and yes I read your article link) kids may not contract the virus, they can still spread it. Stop the spread.

Then you and she need to do your part to keep yourselves isolated. Her life depends on it.

I won't go into my own troubles with the lockdown, unemployment, older relatives, pregnant daughter in NYC, and other everyday trivial stuff but we are doing our part to keep others safe. Thanks for caring.

#StayhomeStaysafe