COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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AFAIK, the WHO never said the coronavirus outbreak 'wasn't that serious', nor did it ever say that it couldn't be passed from person to person... the may have said there was no evidence of human to human transmission when none existed, but I don't recall them even saying that - it's a respiratory virus.

Somewhere way back in this thread I provided some links that showed what they said... the claim seems to go back to when they explicitly said that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission which (as you point out) was the case at the time they've said it. That statement is now providing the basis for people using older WHO statements to justify the US's relative lack of action.

EDIT: Here
 
Somewhere way back in this thread I provided some links that showed what they said... the claim seems to go back to when they explicitly said that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission which (as you point out) was the case at the time they've said it. That statement is now providing the basis for people using older WHO statements to justify the US's relative lack of action.

EDIT: Here
Yep and on the 14th Jan they clarified that with the following:

"14 January 2020

WHO's technical lead for the response noted in a press briefing there may have been limited human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus (in the 41 confirmed cases), mainly through family members, and that there was a risk of a possible wider outbreak. The lead also said that human-to-human transmission would not be surprising given our experience with SARS, MERS and other respiratory pathogens."

Confirming it on the 22nd Jan

"22 January 2020

WHO mission to China issued a statement saying that there was evidence of human-to-human transmission in Wuhan but more investigation was needed to understand the full extent of transmission."

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/08-04-2020-who-timeline---covid-19

So to be blunt anyone saying otherwise is a liar.
 
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My best friend is a musician on a cruise ship (not the Ruby Princess) that is, for want of a better description, stranded in the Indian Ocean.

The original plan was to sail to Singapore and have the crew fly out on a chartered plane to London or Malta (where, unsurprisingly, the ship is registered) paid for by the cruise company. There's just one problem with it: there is no agreement with Singapore. For what it's worth, the boat only has staff and crew onboard and everyone is confined to their cabins (and have been for more than two weeks already) but noöne knows if Singapore will allow passage into their waters nor whether the boat will have to remain docked in isolation for a further two weeks before being allowed to touch Singaporean soil.

The rumours running throughout the ship are rampant; sailing to Malta via the Suez, sailing to Southampton going all around Africa, sailing to Gibraltar via either two routes or even sailing to the west coast of the United States. The entertainment staff don't know but even the shipping crew don't know where they are supposed to be going.

Even today, he messaged me saying that they're definitely not going to Singapore any time soon because they need to refuel and have changed course for Indonesia instead.

Being trapped on land is bad enough but being trapped midsea, thousands of kilometres from any land with no ports accepting?

I am very concerned. :indiff:
Living on the Isle of Wight, we can see the ships wait for piloting into Southampton water. Typically there are four or five vessels - typically car transports and tankers - anchored off the east coast.

I've been walking out that way for my exercise/fresh air, and there are a lot of ships waiting. Last time out I saw probably ten car transports. I'm not sure about anything specific in regards to how shipping is being processed coming into Southampton, but I suspect there is some extra screening, or perhaps a lack of dockhands to process incoming cargo.

I hope your friend makes port soon. I can't imagine the stress one must feel being stranded out there, good luck to them.
 
Clearing what up exactly?
That sophomania is rampent in this thread.

For those posting about Trump/WHO.

Trump is only withholding funding during an investigation into the WHO. Get it correct.
Trump has not cut funding, yet.
 
Trump has ordered that funds are withheld. That's a cut in every normal usage of the word. It sounds like you're hinging the definition of "cut" on implied permanency but that's an incorrect way for you to use the word.

I disagree with the decision, but withholding something is a delay, not a cut (yet). I've taken a 3 month payment holiday on my mortgage. I really wish that was a cut, but it's definitely not... I've still got to pay it all back afterwards, with extra interest.

The only sense that it is already a cut is that no interest is probably being charged. But since interest rates are currently very low, even that cut is relatively small.
 
AFAIK, the WHO never said the coronavirus outbreak 'wasn't that serious', nor did it ever say that it couldn't be passed from person to person... the may have said there was no evidence of human to human transmission when none existed, but I don't recall them even saying that - it's a respiratory virus.

The WHO is not "China's mouthpiece" - that is a Trumpian slur that basically holds no water.
A testament to the the ease with which unverified information spreads through social media, the cluster**** that it very often is, that such information becomes "fact" through repetition and, despite its lack of reasonable foundation, is ultimately passed on by those who would normally question its origin.
 
I disagree with the decision, but withholding something is a delay, not a cut (yet). I've taken a 3 month payment holiday on my mortgage. I really wish that was a cut, but it's definitely not... I've still got to pay it all back afterwards, with extra interest.

That's completely different. You're making payments on something whose value you are responsible for, WHO payments are made into the pot to support and increase new and ongoing services. There's a definite agreement that you will be paying your full mortgage regardless of the payment holiday. The US have made no guarantee that they will ever pay any money again, and meanwhile the WHO is without part of the income that they use to provide their services. S'a cut.
 
Sources?

AFAIK, the WHO never said the coronavirus outbreak 'wasn't that serious', nor did it ever say that it couldn't be passed from person to person... the may have said there was no evidence of human to human transmission when none existed, but I don't recall them even saying that - it's a respiratory virus.

The WHO is not "China's mouthpiece" - that is a Trumpian slur that basically holds no water.

On January 5, the WHO issued this statement.

Based on the preliminary information from the Chinese investigation team, no evidence of significant human-to-human transmission and no health care worker infections have been reported.

The WHO is seemingly taking what the Chinese government found out to be truthful enough to issue a statement on it. As you said, it's a respiratory virus, you'd have to be living under a rock to think that there's no evidence or proof that human-to-human transmission exists. Nevermind that on December 25, there were rumblings that medical staff was coming down with COVID-19 while treating patients in Wuhan. Even Dr. Li Wenliang warned of the spread of the virus and was almost immediately censored by the Chinese government for spreading false information, even though what he was saying was true. China arrested others for doing, essentially, the same thing as Dr, Li Wenliang as well.

Around January 8th, the NYT printed this article with a quote from Dr. Gauden Galea, the WHO's representative in China:

“Preliminary identification of a novel virus in a short period of time is a notable achievement and demonstrates China’s increased capacity to manage new outbreaks,”

Ya, China was managing the outbreak by covering up its data and severity of the illness. The WHO bought into it and bought into it enough to make statements that China was somehow doing the right thing. It doesn't take much to look into China's history of lies and deception.

By January 14th, we get the statement from the WHO about there being no clear evidence, when there was plenty of information circulating that there was actually evidence. A day later, the Wuhan Munciple Health Commission even came out and continued this line of thought as well.

On January 22nd, Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus had this to say in one of his statements:

I also appreciate the cooperation of China’s Minister of Health, who I have spoken with directly during the last few days and weeks. His leadership and the intervention of President Xi and Premier Li have been invaluable, and all the measures they have taken to respond to the outbreak.

Here's the WHO's General Director continuing to praise China even though by then we'd seen human-to-human spread, international spread, and the death of patients. The rest is pretty well documented since at the end of January pretty much everything came to light.

Here's a more in-depth breakdown on how the WHO was deceived by China. Why the WHO won't admit it, I'm not sure.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ganization-blame-pandemic-coronavirus/609820/

====

As for the point about Taiwan, here's a source from Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-questions-at-start-of-outbreak-idUSKBN21B160

And let's not forget about Dr. Bruce Aylward's lame attempt to dodge a question by RTHK reporter Yvonne Tong about Taiwan being admitted into the WHO.



Given all of this, it's why I think the WHO is nothing more than a mouthpiece for China, or if not a mouthpiece, at least pandering to China in a really questionable way. It seemingly took China's "studies" at face value during the early days of COVID-19 and then proceeded to pass it off like they were somehow meaningful. It's like the WHO didn't want to upset China, even though China's ineptitude lead to the COVID-19 being a crisis in the first place. If China hadn't tried to cover everything up and actually was forthcoming with its findings earlier, we would probably be living in a different world now.

That statement is now providing the basis for people using older WHO statements to justify the US's relative lack of action.

Don't get me wrong, I think the US has done a terrible job at managing this and should've done something immediately after the first cases were discovered in Washington. Although, I know there are a few things floating around regarding how US intelligence had information on the COVID-19 back in November/December. That alone should've made the government act if it's true.

Just because the US did and is currently still doing a poor job, that doesn't excuse China and the WHO from also dropping the ball big time.
 
If someone has cancer/heart disease/etc., contracts Covid-19, and then dies from the cancer/heart disease/etc. because Covid-19 weakened the body allowing underlying issues to kill the patient, the death should remain a result of Covid-19.
In the UK deaths are certified using a MCCD (Medical Certificates of Cause of Death).

Here is the latest guidance on how doctors should fill them out during the present emergency.

As you can see there is a part 1 and part 2 to the MCCD, with part 1 accounting for the immediate cause of death and underlying causes. Part 2 is for other conditions contributing to death, but not related to the disease or condition causing it. The question becomes, how many MCCDs have COVID-19 labelled on part 2 and are therefore counted as a COVID-19 death? This could be negligible, as it's usually chronic conditions (like diabetes) listed here. Deaths reported by the ONS are also reported as "involving" COVID-19, and not "from" COVID-19.

McLaren
You can't have thousands of deaths from multiple underlying issues that all "coincidentally" happened as soon as Covid-19 was contracted and not label Covid-19 was the cause of death.
I think the more important question is how many of those deaths were people who were going to die soon regardless of COVID-19.

This has to be balanced against the deaths that will result from wrecking the economy, and with the news that 2 million could lose their jobs and the economy shrink by a third, we have to ask how far we are willing to go in this (and possibly future) lockdown(s).
 
In the UK deaths are certified using a MCCD (Medical Certificates of Cause of Death).

Here is the latest guidance on how doctors should fill them out during the present emergency.

As you can see there is a part 1 and part 2 to the MCCD, with part 1 accounting for the immediate cause of death and underlying causes. Part 2 is for other conditions contributing to death, but not related to the disease or condition causing it. The question becomes, how many MCCDs have COVID-19 labelled on part 2 and are therefore counted as a COVID-19 death? This could be negligible, as it's usually chronic conditions (like diabetes) listed here. Deaths reported by the ONS are also reported as "involving" COVID-19, and not "from" COVID-19.
I highly doubt it's anywhere enough to suddenly question the current 128,071 deaths that a significant chunk did not have COVID-19 heavily contribute to their deaths.

I think the more important question is how many of those deaths were people who were going to die soon regardless of COVID-19.
And how much does that really matter? "Uh, the patient was gonna die in a month from cancer anyway, so even though COVID-19 cause complications allowing the body to be overwhelmed, we shouldn't rule the death COVID-19".
 
There is a pretty big story coming out of the WWE during this pandemic.

As I have mentioned before I am a big wrestling fan and WrestleMania went ahead 10 days ago without a crowd and it wasn't live with all the matches that took place being pre-recorded, it was a great show and it was largely well received, after that it was thought that they would have to stop producing for a while because Florida-where they have been making shows-now has a stay at home order.

However in the days since WWE announced that they will still be producing their weekly TV shows at the training complex in Orlando for which they have been using in the past month or so. Obviously this does raise a few questions as to how they can get around the order/lockdown, yesterday we got the answer.

The Chairman and CEO of WWE is Vince McMahon, his wife Linda is the small business minister in Donald Trumps government and is currently running a pro-Trump super PAC for his re-election campaign, she committed to spending $18.5 million in the pro-Republic state of Florida....and this took place on the same day Florida deemed WWE as 'essential business (April 9th) With the order is allowed McMahon and WWE to continue running live events in Florida.

The Sheriffs Office of Orlando tried to stop WWE from continuing several times before, the WWE talent and backstage crew have now been given a letter to show the relevant authorities that they are 'essential'.

There is no way that they should be going ahead still, and this is coming from a fan. Everyone involved in WWE right now should be at home with their families.
 
I bet GameStop's board are kicking themselves extra hard right now.
 
So stating facts about how the economy works and what an economic collapse would entail is sophomania? Interesting. @01GTP
"I can't continue crafting reasoned (or not) arguments in response to yours, so I'll attack you instead."

There is a pretty big story coming out of the WWE during this pandemic.

As I have mentioned before I am a big wrestling fan and WrestleMania went ahead 10 days ago without a crowd and it wasn't live with all the matches that took place being pre-recorded, it was a great show and it was largely well received, after that it was thought that they would have to stop producing for a while because Florida-where they have been making shows-now has a stay at home order.

However in the days since WWE announced that they will still be producing their weekly TV shows at the training complex in Orlando for which they have been using in the past month or so. Obviously this does raise a few questions as to how they can get around the order/lockdown, yesterday we got the answer.

The Chairman and CEO of WWE is Vince McMahon, his wife Linda is the small business minister in Donald Trumps government and is currently running a pro-Trump super PAC for his re-election campaign, she committed to spending $18.5 million in the pro-Republic state of Florida....and this took place on the same day Florida deemed WWE as 'essential business (April 9th) With the order is allowed McMahon and WWE to continue running live events in Florida.

The Sheriffs Office of Orlando tried to stop WWE from continuing several times before, the WWE talent and backstage crew have now been given a letter to show the relevant authorities that they are 'essential'.

There is no way that they should be going ahead still, and this is coming from a fan. Everyone involved in WWE right now should be at home with their families.
*gasp*

"WWE concerned more about money than people and uses officials they bought to operate as they see fit?"

*laughs in "independent contractor"*

Edit:

lackofsurprise-jpg.745068
 
The news that this virus may be damaging T-cells combined with other news of significant numbers of recovered people having little to no antibodies is extremely worrying.

Too early to call but a highly infectious, T-cell damaging virus that can be contracted again after recovery is just about the worse possible outcome for all of this.

I remain hopeful that this is not the case and that science will find us the answers and the treatment strategy we need.

T cell damage was detected in patients who needed hospitalization, would be interesting to know how are T cell levels in asymptomatic cases.
 
There is a pretty big story coming out of the WWE during this pandemic.

As I have mentioned before I am a big wrestling fan and WrestleMania went ahead 10 days ago without a crowd and it wasn't live with all the matches that took place being pre-recorded, it was a great show and it was largely well received, after that it was thought that they would have to stop producing for a while because Florida-where they have been making shows-now has a stay at home order.

However in the days since WWE announced that they will still be producing their weekly TV shows at the training complex in Orlando for which they have been using in the past month or so. Obviously this does raise a few questions as to how they can get around the order/lockdown, yesterday we got the answer.

The Chairman and CEO of WWE is Vince McMahon, his wife Linda is the small business minister in Donald Trumps government and is currently running a pro-Trump super PAC for his re-election campaign, she committed to spending $18.5 million in the pro-Republic state of Florida....and this took place on the same day Florida deemed WWE as 'essential business (April 9th) With the order is allowed McMahon and WWE to continue running live events in Florida.

The Sheriffs Office of Orlando tried to stop WWE from continuing several times before, the WWE talent and backstage crew have now been given a letter to show the relevant authorities that they are 'essential'.

There is no way that they should be going ahead still, and this is coming from a fan. Everyone involved in WWE right now should be at home with their families.

It was a simpler time, it was a better time:

 
The Toothbrush? I think they mean the Hitler. And as someone who's on their way to a bandholz, I'm not shaving anytime soon.
 
I've got a full beard. I'm screwed :lol:

I have a full size winter balaclava with a face covering that goes up to the nose. It can be worn with the front cover up and the balaclava down so it's just a face wrap. Covers everything from the nose down but a bit warm as it's getting nicer out.
 
The Toothbrush? I think they mean the Hitler.
Much like the swastika, it existed before he co-opted it. That facial hair brings to mind acts of atrocity is a disservice to men with a discerning fashion sense. We should take it back from evil's icy grip, but...um...I can't because my mustache has a very well defined natural part.

The only unforgivable bit up there is the Everclear soul patch.
 
Not all schools. Mostly just those classes that were about to write their finals. Kindergarten and elementary schools still closed. The rest of the classes are also still closed, but they're trying to work out concepts until the end of the month. Kindergarten classes will get their emergency care build up. Was mostly just for essential workers before, but they're gonna expand it due more things opening up soon.
 
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