COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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Fake news? Really? It's a warning from a global health care specialist of a possible scenario going forward. How is that "fake news"? :rolleyes:
It's an empty statement; there's currently no vaccine to be tested and determined to be successful or not. It's only meaningful to those given to sensationalism.
 
It's an empty statement; there's currently no vaccine to be tested and determined to be successful or not. It's only meaningful to those given to sensationalism.

It's the Grauniad.

I think it's a reasonable thing to point out that there's no guarantee that a vaccine WILL arrive in a timely fashion & planning should take that possibility into account.
 
It's the Grauniad.

I think it's a reasonable thing to point out that there's no guarantee that a vaccine WILL arrive in a timely fashion & planning should take that possibility into account.
There are so many possibilities going forward that plans and actions should make no effort to take any particular possibility into account.
 
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There are so many possibilities going forward that plans actions should make no effort to take any particular possibility into account.

Well, that does appear to have been the strategy followed in the UK & elsewhere ...
 
It's the Grauniad.

I think it's a reasonable thing to point out that there's no guarantee that a vaccine WILL arrive in a timely fashion & planning should take that possibility into account.
What is considered a timely fashion? At best, I see a vaccine being available in around a year from now. I'd rather have more testing to verify if the actual number of cases is off significantly. If the amount of people infected is increased by 1 magnitude, then the actual fatality rate is down by a large margin as well.
 
Well, that does appear to have been the strategy followed in the UK & elsewhere ...
Could be. Sometimes it seems plans and actions have reflected the belief that COVID-19 would just blow over.
 
Could be. Sometimes it seems plans and actions have reflected the belief that COVID-19 would just blow over.

Could be. In any case, I take it that this expert's warning is that it's not a good idea to go forward with an assumption that a vaccine WILL arrive with a year - that coronavirus planning should take into account the possibility that it may not.
 
Many people have been out of work and income here in Bulgaria for 6 weeks now and hunger begins to outweigh the fear of the virus. Three broken ATMs yesterday in Plovdiv, and today protest against the quarantine in Sofia.
This is exactly the thing no one thinks about happening during extended lockdowns. Many make it seem like it is just a choice between people's lives and money but that isn't the case.
 
Fake news? Really? It's a warning from a global health care specialist of a possible scenario going forward. How is that "fake news"? :rolleyes:
When you warning people over a possible scenario with no evidence of what will come in the future is a fake news. Imo.
 
Many people have been out of work and income here in Bulgaria for 6 weeks now and hunger begins to outweigh the fear of the virus. Three broken ATMs yesterday in Plovdiv, and today protest against the quarantine in Sofia.
Not just hunger, junkies are having a hard time and getting desperate. Last week in Sofia in broad daylight in the centre I was following two trying to get in various homes through low windows. I shout at them, they give it up and continue. Such is their state that they forget about me in a few minutes and try again. With the police guarding parks, it won't be getting better.
 
yas
Not just hunger, junkies are having a hard time and getting desperate. Last week in Sofia in broad daylight in the centre I was following two trying to get in various homes through low windows. I shout at them, they give it up and continue. Such is their state that they forget about me in a few minutes and try again. With the police guarding parks, it won't be getting better.
Junkies - the same in any language
 
"Fake news" is current events reported to be true but which are not actually true. Nothing else - and certainly not stuff you don't agree with just because you don't agree with it.
What are you talking about? I never said that I don't agree with that possible scenario. But since that is just a possibility anything can happen. My statement is a fake news might or might not be true. Even if you don't agree with since only future can tell.
 
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about you misusing the term "fake news".
When you warning people over a possible scenario with no evidence of what will come in the future is a fake news. Imo.
The term "fake news" is current events reported to be true but which are not actually true. It is not anything else.
 
I'm talking about you misusing the term "fake news".

The term "fake news" is current events reported to be true but which are not actually true. It is not anything else.
If anything it’s bad journalism. I mean you could realistically say for example that there is a possibility or any sort of bad thing to happen without much evidence to back up the claim. You can’t say it’s true but you also can’t really say it’s false. There’s still an issue with this type of reporting in my opinion because it really does nothing but scare people unnecessarily.
 
I'm talking about you misusing the term "fake news".

The term "fake news" is current events reported to be true but which are not actually true. It is not anything else.
If anything it’s bad journalism. I mean you could realistically say for example that there is a possibility or any sort of bad thing to happen without much evidence to back up the claim. You can’t say it’s true but you also can’t really say it’s false. There’s still an issue with this type of reporting in my opinion because it really does nothing but scare people unnecessarily.
I know I'm out of place a bit but I think "current" is an important word here. You're essentially talking about future events and of course no one can predict the future.
 
The term "fake news" is current events reported to be true but which are not actually true. It is not anything else.
But isn't it a fake news also something you just made up without any evidence to back up your claim? If I misused the term than I apologize since it was not my intention. What term would be more appropriate? If I may ask?
 
If anything it’s bad journalism. I mean you could realistically say for example that there is a possibility or any sort of bad thing to happen without much evidence to back up the claim. You can’t say it’s true but you also can’t really say it’s false. There’s still an issue with this type of reporting in my opinion because it really does nothing but scare people unnecessarily.
The statement was made by someone in a position to have their statements reported on. I wouldn't consider reporting on such a provocative statement to be bad journalism, even if I don't think such statements should be reporting on them. It's easily sensationalized, not only by media outlets but by those inclined to spread the statements further.
 
But isn't it a fake news also something you just made up without any evidence to back up your claim?
No, because that's not news.
What term would be more appropriate?
For something made up and without any evidence? A lie.

That doesn't apply here though. The person in question is a professor of global health, and his suggestion - conjecture, if you will - is based on evidence: there's no vaccine, there's no vaccine for any coronavirus as far as I'm aware, and the mere act of researching one is not a guarantee that we will be able to create a functional one - especially if the virus evolves into other strains. The result of that would be a society that adapts to accept that there is an incurable, transmissible, serious disease and change our behaviours - just like we did for HIV.

If anything it’s bad journalism. I mean you could realistically say for example that there is a possibility or any sort of bad thing to happen without much evidence to back up the claim. You can’t say it’s true but you also can’t really say it’s false. There’s still an issue with this type of reporting in my opinion because it really does nothing but scare people unnecessarily.
The journalist is reporting on what a relevant expert said - that there's not necessarily a functional vaccine in the works so we may have to adapt to live with it rather than expect to beat it. I'm not sure how that makes them a bad journalist.

And the expert's conjecture is correct. There is no coronavirus vaccine of any kind for any strain in any species, as far as I'm aware, and definitely not among the seven human coronaviruses. There has never been a financial case for developing one - most make you cough a bit, two might make you die if you live in China or Saudi Arabia, and then there's COVID-19 - so we're trying to create a vaccine for a specific strain of a virus family we've never created a vaccine for. It may not work - we don't have a vaccine for a lot of viruses. However if it does, we then need to bypass 2-5 years of approval testing to get it into enough people to confer herd immunity.

There's a lot of ifs, and only one of them needs to be a not for the scenario to come true... and the scenario already is true. We can't all be quarantined indefinitely - society has to resume at some point - and we're going to need to do that without a vaccine. We will need to adapt our behaviours to deal with the fact that there is an incurable, transmissible, serious disease out there.
 
No, because that's not news.

For something made up and without any evidence? A lie.

That doesn't apply here though. The person in question is a professor of global health, and his suggestion - conjecture, if you will - is based on evidence: there's no vaccine, there's no vaccine for any coronavirus as far as I'm aware, and the mere act of researching one is not a guarantee that we will be able to create a functional one - especially if the virus evolves into other strains. The result of that would be a society that adapts to accept that there is an incurable, transmissible, serious disease and change our behaviours - just like we did for HIV.


The journalist is reporting on what a relevant expert said - that there's not necessarily a functional vaccine in the works so we may have to adapt to live with it rather than expect to beat it. I'm not sure how that makes them a bad journalist.

And the expert's conjecture is correct. There is no coronavirus vaccine of any kind for any strain in any species, as far as I'm aware, and definitely not among the seven human coronaviruses. There has never been a financial case for developing one - most make you cough a bit, two might make you die if you live in China or Saudi Arabia, and then there's COVID-19 - so we're trying to create a vaccine for a specific strain of a virus family we've never created a vaccine for. It may not work - we don't have a vaccine for a lot of viruses. However if it does, we then need to bypass 2-5 years of approval testing to get it into enough people to confer herd immunity.

There's a lot of ifs, and only one of them needs to be a not for the scenario to come true... and the scenario already is true. We can't all be quarantined indefinitely - society has to resume at some point - and we're going to need to do that without a vaccine. We will need to adapt our behaviours to deal with the fact that there is an incurable, transmissible, serious disease out there.
One thing I'd be curious about is how much we will have to change our behaviors from what they were, and will this be the new (currently unsustainable) normal.
 
But isn't it a fake news also something you just made up without any evidence to back up your claim? If I misused the term than I apologize since it was not my intention. What term would be more appropriate? If I may ask?

It's clearly not "fake news" for the reasons Famine already explained. But additionally, it's not something "made up without any evidence to back up your claim". It's a report citing an expert in the field stating that it is not a given that a vaccine will be arrived at within the next 6 -18 months, because there is no guarantee, speaking from knowledge & prior experience, that such a vaccine is inevitable. This is no more "fake" than the assumption that a vaccine will be created. Understanding that possibility is an important factor in planning for the future.

Almost every politician in almost every country downplayed the threat posed by the coronavirus. What evidence, other than wishful thinking, did they have to back up their claim? At the same time, most experts in the field were warning about the dangers of the virus spreading. Which of these perspectives turned out to be more "fake"?

... or what Famine said!
 
One thing I'd be curious about is how much we will have to change our behaviors from what they were, and will this be the new (currently unsustainable) normal.
There's aspects I'd rather not see.

At present we have a lot of police action I would not support in normal circumstances - under the principles that I've covered elsewhere I grudgingly support the current action on the principle that, thanks to the asymptomatic infectious period of COVID-19, you don't know if you are injuring others by your mere presence - but it has to end. We cannot continue to indefinitely treat any excursion into public spaces as a potential criminal offence, nor treat even small gatherings as a crime; there has to come a point where people no longer have to justify every trip to the supermarket, every walk around the block, and every drive to the satisfaction of a police officer.

However, there's a lot that'll continue. I think we'll see a lot more working from home for a start - we're seeing huge benefits from that, and not all that many downsides. Some people do like the office environment, but it's easy to see that employers will offer it as an option a lot more - with occasional attendance (and of course an initial office-based period with new starters) to bridge the gap. We'll probably see a significant uptick in people wearing masks in public; that's something we've seen in Asian cities for a while, but it's likely to be adopted more widely (although probably not a majority still).

As for what else... who knows? I think the entertainment industry could be in for a shock - there's a lot of people who'd spend a lot of money on going to football, or the cinema, who aren't doing so right now, and finding out just how much they save by not doing so. And a lot of celebrities making absolute tits of themselves by filming the hardship of their mansion-based lockdown...
 
More horrible news in the war. There is now growing concern for shortage of dialysis machines.

"This has become a real-time learning experience."

It's not just lungs: Covid-19 may damage the heart, brain, and kidneys
April 17, 2020

It's widely known that the new coronavirus attacks patients' lungs, but clinicians and researchers around the world are reporting that the virus is damaging other organs, as well—a discovery that could have implications for the way doctors treat Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, and for how patients recover.
Cardiac injuries reported in almost half of critically ill Covid-19 patients
In addition to the widely reported lung injuries associated with Covid-19, clinicians around the world are reporting that the disease also could be causing cardiac injuries in patients that sometimes lead to cardiac arrest.

According to the Washington Post, health care workers in China and New York have reported seeing myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle, as well as irregular heart rhythms in Covid-19 patients—even in patients with no pre-existing heart conditions.
At first, the patients "seem to be doing really well as far as respiratory status goes," said Mitchell Elkind, a neurologist at Columbia University and president-elect of the American Heart Association (AHA). But the patients "suddenly … develop a cardiac issue that seems out of proportion to their respiratory issues," Elkind said.

Elkind noted that one review found about 40% of seriously ill Covid-19 patients in China experienced arrhythmias and 20% experienced other cardiac injuries. "There is some concern that some of it may be due to direct influence of the virus," Elkind said.

A separate study of 416 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in China found that 19% showed signs of heart damage, and those patients were more likely to die. According to the study, 51% of patients with heart damage died, compared with 4.5% of patients who showed no signs of cardiac injury.

Doctors are trying to determine whether the damage to patients' heart muscles is caused by the new coronavirus, itself, or if the damage occurs as a result of other symptoms of Covid-19, such as pneumonia and inflammation, Kaiser Health News (KHN) reports.

"It's extremely important to answer [that] question," said Ulrich Jorde, head of heart failure, cardiac transplantation, and mechanical circulatory support for Montefiore Health System. "This may save many lives in the end."

Nervous system damage in Covid-19 patients leads to seizures, hallucinations
Doctors also are reporting a growing number of Covid-19 patients with symptoms of neurological damage, including brain inflammation, seizures, and hallucinations, the Wall Street Journal reports.

A group of Chinese doctors in a study published last week in JAMA Neurology found that more than one-third of 214 hospitalized Covid-19 patients in Wuhan had neurologic symptoms, the most common of which were dizziness, headaches, impaired consciousness, loss of taste and smell, and skeletal-muscle injuries. More serious but less commonly reported symptoms included seizures and stroke, according to the study.

The findings have prompted doctors to begin performing simple neurological exams on Covid-19 patients, the Journal reports.

Further, while health experts originally were telling patients to avoid seeking care at hospitals unless they had common Covid-19 symptoms such as a fever, cough, or trouble breathing, neurologists are hoping the new data will add neurological symptoms—such as confusion, numbness, or trouble speaking—to that list. "This article should open up everyone's eyes that this disorder affects the brain as well." said S. Andrew Josephson, chair of neurology at the University of California-San Francisco.

Kidney damage increasingly common in Covid-19 patients
Kidney damage also is becoming a commonly reported issue among Covid-19 patients.

Alan Kliger, a nephrologist at the Yale School of Medicine, said early data showed 14% to 30% of ICU Covid-19 patients in New York and Wuhan, China, lost kidney function and later required dialysis. Similarly, a study published last week in the journal Kidney International found that nine of 26 people who died of Covid-19 in Wuhan had acute kidney injuries, and seven had units of the new coronavirus in their kidneys.

The findings suggest it's "very possible that the virus attaches to the kidney cells and attacks them," Kliger said.

Blood clots found in majority of patients who died of Covid-19, Chinese study shows
The new coronavirus also appears to produce blood clots that can travel from patients' veins to their lungs, causing a pulmonary embolism, and other organs.

According to STAT News, Chinese researchers in one report said they found small blood clots in about 70% of the patients who died of Covid-19 and were included in the study. In comparison, the researchers found similar blood clots in fewer than one in 100 patients who survived the disease. In a separate peer-reviewed study of 81 patients in Wuhan that was published last week in the Journal of Thrombosis and Hemostasis, researchers wrote that 20 patients experienced pulmonary embolism and eight died from the condition.

Based on what they've seen so far, doctors said the blood clots in Covid-19 patients are smaller but cause more damage than blood clots typically seen in patients with other conditions, STAT Newsreports.

Sanjum Sethi, an interventional cardiologist and assistant professor of medicine at Columbia University's Irving Medical Center, said doctors have been using blood thinners to treat the clots in Covid-19 patients, hoping that relieving the clots will allow the patients' immune systems to focus on fighting off the coronavirus.

While Clyde Yancy, chief of cardiology at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, said it's too early to "declare anything definitively," he added, "[W]e know from the best available data that about one-third of patients who have Covid-19 infections do in fact have evidence of thrombotic disease."

Doctors said it is still unclear why the clots develop in Covid-19 patients, according to STAT News.

Reports have implications for treatment, recovery
While doctors' reports of different types of organ damage in Covid-19 patients are increasing, clinicians and researchers have yet to determine whether the new coronavirus is directly attacking those organs, or whether the injuries are caused by the patients' immune responses to the infection. Doctors said researchers also should investigate whether the organ damage and failure is being caused by medication, respiratory distress, fevers, the stress of hospitalization, and so-called "cytokine storms."

Regardless of the cause, the organ damage is threatening patients' lives. "It's not necessarily the virus killing people, it's the organ failure that happens as a result of the viral infection," said Christopher Barrett, a senior surgical resident at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center.

But results indicating that the virus is directly attacking patients' organs could impact the way doctors treat and evaluate Covid-19 patients, especially in the early stages of infection, KHN reports.

"This is a real-time learning experience," Yancy said (Bernstein et al., Washington Post, 4/15; Hawryluk, Kaiser Health News, 4/6; Hernandez, Wall Street Journal, 4/14; Cooney, STAT News, 4/16; Owermohle/Eisenberg, Politico, 4/15).


https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage
 
More horrible news in the war. There is now growing concern for shortage of dialysis machines.

"This has become a real-time learning experience."

It's not just lungs: Covid-19 may damage the heart, brain, and kidneys
April 17, 2020

It's widely known that the new coronavirus attacks patients' lungs, but clinicians and researchers around the world are reporting that the virus is damaging other organs, as well—a discovery that could have implications for the way doctors treat Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, and for how patients recover.



https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage

It's tough to read this with the appropriate seriousness. Take for example this part:

Cardiac injuries reported in almost half of critically ill Covid-19 patients
In addition to the widely reported lung injuries associated with Covid-19, clinicians around the world are reporting that the disease also could be causing cardiac injuries in patients that sometimes lead to cardiac arrest.

In a decent portion of critically ill (definition needed) patients, cardiac arrest occurs and they don't come out of it. The injuries to the entire body are permanent because they're dead. I don't know how much more seriously I'm supposed to take this. It can kill people. And it's not exactly surprising that if it doesn't kill you it can nearly kill you.
 
It's tough to read this with the appropriate seriousness. Take for example this part:



In a decent portion of critically ill (definition needed) patients, cardiac arrest occurs and they don't come out of it. The injuries to the entire body are permanent because they're dead. I don't know how much more seriously I'm supposed to take this. It can kill people. And it's not exactly surprising that if it doesn't kill you it can nearly kill you.
My concern would be for a crippling injury, one that left the victim unable to function as normal.
 
Was going to order groceries today with free pickup but the next available day was Thursday and the only times available for pickup were when I am at work. So decided to go get some things myself tonight just after sundown and that worked out. Barely anyone was in the store. Grabbed my sanitized cart, got what I wanted and left without being near anyone. This will probably be my plan for a while, Sunday night shopping.

Edit: Also, AZ probably won't need a stay at home order much longer. People will naturally stay indoors...

94205828_2817591168322720_6943367791411986432_n.jpg
 
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No, because that's not news.
Until a journalist post it?

For something made up and without any evidence? A lie.
A theory? An assumption? A guess? A fake news?

That doesn't apply here though. The person in question is a professor of global health, and his suggestion - conjecture, if you will - is based on evidence: there's no vaccine, there's no vaccine for any coronavirus as far as I'm aware, and the mere act of researching one is not a guarantee that we will be able to create a functional one - especially if the virus evolves into other strains. The result of that would be a society that adapts to accept that there is an incurable, transmissible, serious disease and change our behaviours - just like we did for HIV.
I don't question his credentials. But he is working for WHO in the end. And my credibility in that organization is very low.
But yes, he is right. Even the local baker I was talking last day is aware that this could go on for quite sometime. Maybe is just that I believe that this virus has put a lot of scientists all over the world to focus on the possible vaccine or cure. And with the current technology and sharing knowledge I am pretty confident that the solution will come sooner that most are predicting right now. We found so many vaccines for so many serious diseases that I am pretty confident we will success this time too.

This is no more "fake" than the assumption that a vaccine will be created.
I totally agree with that. But again I admit. I should've picked a better term. May bad.
 
Until a journalist post it?
Nope. Opinion isn't news.
A theory? An assumption? A guess? A fake news?
A theory requires evidence. It can't be an assumption or a guess, because nothing is assumed or guessed. And it's neither fake nor news.
I don't question his credentials. But he is working for WHO in the end. And my credibility in that organization is very low.
He's an envoy for WHO, but he works for Imperial College.
It's not just lungs: Covid-19 may damage the heart, brain, and kidneys
Gosh, imagine if we've known for months that SARS-CoV-2 binds ACE-2 receptors, which are expressed in heart and kidney cells...
SARS-CoV-2 binds ACE2 receptors, which you'll find expressed in the cells that line blood vessels of the heart and kidney.
 
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