COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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If the world population is 8 billion and we have 500,000 deaths then if we translated this into a 100,000 seat stadium then how many people in the stadium would die with Covid-19 in 3 months. Answer : 6


In the UK 70, with most of them over 70 years old,similar numbers in the US.

The british government know the virus is fizzling out over here, The stats tell us that

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...he-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

Can't wait until the government tell us that masks saved millions of lives.

Due to its rather low lethality, Covid-19 falls at most into level 2 of the five-level pandemic plan developed by US health authorities. For this level, only the “voluntary isolation of sick people” is to be applied, while further measures such as face masks, school closings, distance rules, contact tracing, vaccinations and lockdowns of entire societies are not recommended.
 
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If the world population is 8 billion and we have 500,000 deaths then if we translated this into a 100,000 seat stadium then how many people in the stadium would die with Covid-19 in 3 months. Answer : 6


In the UK 70, with most of them over 70 years old,similar numbers in the US.

The british government know the virus is fizzling out over here, The stats tell us that

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...he-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

Can't wait until the government tell us that masks saved millions of lives.

Due to its rather low lethality, Covid-19 falls at most into level 2 of the five-level pandemic plan developed by US health authorities. For this level, only the “voluntary isolation of sick people” is to be applied, while further measures such as face masks, school closings, distance rules, contact tracing, vaccinations and lockdowns of entire societies are not recommended.

Or you could look at at this way, and watch COVID race to overtake malaria in a few short months, despite malaria having a massive head start.

https://public.flourish.studio/visu...TUCwQBrjOhNYLX8lwC4DnaBqVJCD6PBOIGmiYEYBt2NCA
 
The New York Times has published a major article by a top senior writer regarding investigation into the origin of the pandemic.

8 Questions From a Disease Detective on the Pandemic’s Origins

Dr. Daniel R. Lucey wants answers to pointed questions that bear on how the coronavirus leapt from bats to humans.

08SCI-VIRUS-LUCEY-articleLarge.jpg

In a recent blog post, Dr. Daniel R. Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University, offered guidance to World Health Organization investigators who are headed to China to explore the origins of the coronavirus pandemic.Credit...O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University
By William J. Broad

  • July 8, 2020
For decades, Dr. Daniel R. Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University, has crisscrossed the globe to study epidemics and their origins. His attention now is on the Covid-19 pandemic, which first came to public notice late last year in Wuhan, China. Its exact beginnings are sufficiently clouded that the World Health Organization has begun a wide inquiry into its roots. The advance team is to leave for China this weekend, and Dr. Lucey has publicly encouraged the health agency to address what he considers eight top questions.

“It’s not a legitimate investigation if the team doesn’t ask them,” Dr. Lucey said in a recent interview. He cited public reports and scientific articles as starting points for his queries, adding that Beijing “has never come out and answered these questions.”

Clear answers, Dr. Lucey said, would cast light on how the deadly pathogen spread so rapidly and, perhaps, how exactly the outbreak began. China has not been forthcoming with information, and the Trump administration has inflamed the situation with threats and bullying. It has charged, without presenting evidence, that the microbe jumped to humans from a Wuhan lab. On Tuesday, after long threatening to do so, the administration began formal steps to end its W.H.O. membership.

A student of epidemics, Dr. Lucey has traveled to Asia, Africa, the Americas, Europe and the Middle East, at times as a caregiver. In 2014, working for Doctors Without Borders, he treated Ebola patients in Liberia. He posed his eight questions last month in a post for his blog, which he writes for the Infectious Diseases Society of America. The post came in response to an announcement by Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the W.H.O., that the agency would be sending a team to China to investigate the pathogen’s source — a move long sought by the Trump administration.

“We can fight the virus better when we know everything about the virus, including how it started,” Mr. Ghebreyesus said on June 29 at a regular briefing in Geneva. In May, the World Health Assembly, the W.H.O.’s top decision-making body, passed a resolution calling on the agency to work with other international groups to identify the “source of the virus and the route of introduction to the human population.”

Ever since the outbreak erupted late last year in central China, the global rumor mill has buzzed with speculation and conspiracy theories. Experts have ruled out the idea that the pathogen was concocted as a bioweapon. They agree that it began as a bat virus that probably evolved naturally in another mammal to become adept at infecting and killing humans. But so far, after months of concentrated research at sites and laboratories in China and elsewhere around the globe, no clear intermediary has come to light.

The first three of Dr. Lucey’s eight questions center on the Wuhan wet market — a sprawling marketplace that sold fresh fish and meat before being shut down. It was initially viewed as the viral point of origin. That idea was quickly thrown into doubt when a study by Chinese scientists reported that roughly a third of the earliest hospitalized victims — including the first — had never visited the market. In a May blog, Dr. Lucey quoted the head of China’s Center for Disease Control as ruling it out as the pandemic’s place of origin. The market, the Chinese health official said, “is just another victim.”

Hundreds of environmental samples were reportedly collected at the wet market, producing 33 positive results, but few details have been made public. Dr. Lucey asks: Were any of the positive results linked to human infections? And from what kinds of surfaces — doorknobs, cutting boards, sewage, garbage trucks — were the samples collected? So far, none of the reported positive tests have come from animals.

His fourth question widens the scope of investigation to other markets in Wuhan and across China. Were any samples collected from animals “now known to be susceptible to the virus” — including cats, tigers, mink and ferrets? (Ferrets are routinely used to gauge the transmissibility of human flu viruses.) He also asks about pangolins, which were initially considered a possible intermediary in the human outbreak.

Dr. Lucey’s fifth question addresses a detailed report in The South China Morning Post, published in Hong Kong, that identified an early human coronavirus case on Nov. 17 in Hubei province. The province is the size of Washington State, and Wuhan is its capital. In March, Dr. Lucey wrote a blog post about the report, which described the virus’s rapid spread in Hubei, based on information that the report said came from the government. Now, Dr. Lucey is urging the investigators from the World Health Organization to determine where each of these early Hubei cases were reported, if indeed they occurred, and whether any other “documented or suspected” human infections may have occurred even earlier.

The sixth and seventh questions go to whether the deadly pathogen leapt to humans from a laboratory. Although some intelligence analysts and scientists have entertained that scenario, no direct evidence has come to light suggesting that the coronavirus escaped from one of Wuhan’s labs.

Even so, given the wet market’s downgrading in the investigation, “It is important to address questions about any potential laboratory source of the virus, whether in Wuhan or elsewhere,” Dr. Lucey wrote in his blog post.

To that end, he urges the W.H.O. investigators to look for any signs of “gain of function” research — the deliberate enhancement of pathogens to make them more dangerous. The technique is highly contentious. Critics question its merits and warn that it could lead to catastrophic lab leaks. Proponents see it as a legitimate way to learn how viruses and other infectious organisms might evolve to infect and kill people, and thus help in devising new protections and precautions.

Debate over its wisdom erupted in 2011 after researchers announced success in making the highly lethal H5N1 strain of avian flu easily transmissible through the air between ferrets, at least in the laboratory.

In his blog, Dr. Lucey asks “what, if any,” gain-of-function studies were done on coronaviruses in Wuhan, elsewhere in China, or in collaboration with foreign laboratories.

“If done well scientifically, then this investigation should allay persistent concerns about the origin of this virus,” he wrote. “It could also help set an improved standard for investigating and stopping the awful viruses, and other pathogens, in the decades ahead.”

Finally, Dr. Lucey asks the W.H.O. team to learn more about China’s main influenza research lab, a high-security facility in Harbin, the capital of China’s northernmost province. In May, he notes, a Chinese paper in the journal Science reported that two virus samples from Wuhan were studied there in great detail early this year, including in a variety of animals. It reported that cats and ferrets were highly susceptible to the pathogen; dogs were only mildly susceptible; and pigs, chickens and ducks were not susceptible at all.

In his travels, Dr. Lucey went to Brazil to study the Zika virus; to Madagascar to study pneumonic plague; to Jordan to study the Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS; and to Guangzhou, China, to study severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS. He said his wide travels over the decades had informed his current inquiry.

In an email, he added that the World Health Organization was aware of his eight questions and had given him “good feedback.”

Dr. Lucey likened his queries to the process of unlocking a large building. “The key thing is to open the door,” he said in the interview. “Where you go once you get inside, that’s beyond me.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/health/coronavirus-origin-china-lucey.html
 
If the world population is 8 billion and we have 500,000 deaths then if we translated this into a 100,000 seat stadium then how many people in the stadium would die with Covid-19 in 3 months. Answer : 6


In the UK 70, with most of them over 70 years old,similar numbers in the US.

The british government know the virus is fizzling out over here, The stats tell us that

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...he-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

Can't wait until the government tell us that masks saved millions of lives.

Due to its rather low lethality, Covid-19 falls at most into level 2 of the five-level pandemic plan developed by US health authorities. For this level, only the “voluntary isolation of sick people” is to be applied, while further measures such as face masks, school closings, distance rules, contact tracing, vaccinations and lockdowns of entire societies are not recommended.

For the umpteenth time. It's not all about deaths, it's about what sort of long term effects people will have that survive the disease. We are seeing people suffering from respiratory and vascular problems that COVID triggered. When you only look at the mortality rate of COVID, it's not that bad, but when you look at the bigger picture it's not exactly good. I won't say it's doom and gloom, because it isn't, but it's sure as hell not sunshine and roses.

And masks do save lives and do work. I showed you academic research that supports this claim, but it looks like you chose to ignore it.
 
I am very frustrated with how political reopening schools has become. Republicans are pushing for it because "reopen" and democrats are pushing against it seemingly because republicans are pushing for it.

Los Angeles and San Diego have announced online-only classes in the fall. This is a severe restriction that will greatly harm students and parents, the majority of that harm landing on the poorest families. I'd like to understand what Los Angeles and San Diego expect that they're getting for these announcements. Make no mistake, this is a profound failure. Of all of the balls to drop, after cases first started in CA on March 2, school was a terrible one to drop.

So this is based on science right? Not as far as I can tell.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/california-orange-county-reopen-school-no-masks-trnd/index.html

Meanwhile, Orange County seems to be not quite getting it right either. No masks or social distancing at the school? Uh... why? Because it might not be perfectly implemented... so what? They say it might be harmful, but I mean obviously don't require masks when the kid is running track outside.

Why is this so hard to understand? Having school is not impossible, and it's also not easy. It's in-between much like almost all of life right now. It takes extra effort but not insurmountable effort.

So we've had months to get ready, and consider, and plan, and what has CA come up with. LA says "no in person school because we can't figure it out", and OC says "in person school just like before because we can't be bothered". Fail. Take reasonable precautions.

Edit:

This is where we are as a society right now. Nobody can figure out common ground, or anything in-between. It's all or nothing. All left or all right (I hate that there even is such a thing as a left or right on this issue, it's not really a political issue). No such thing as "being reasonable". As a result, everything is a mess.
 
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https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/california-orange-county-reopen-school-no-masks-trnd/index.html

Meanwhile, Orange County seems to be not quite getting it right either. No masks or social distancing at the school? Uh... why? Because it might not be perfectly implemented... so what? They say it might be harmful, but I mean obviously don't require masks when the kid is running track outside.

Why is this so hard to understand? Having school is not impossible, and it's also not easy. It's in-between much like almost all of life right now. It takes extra effort but not insurmountable effort.

So we've had months to get ready, and consider, and plan, and what has CA come up with. LA says "no in person school because we can't figure it out", and OC says "in person school just like before because we can't be bothered". Fail. Take reasonable precautions.

Edit:

This is where we are as a society right now. Nobody can figure out common ground, or anything in-between. It's all or nothing. All left or all right. No such thing as "being reasonable". As a result, everything is a mess.
"So compromise doesn't mean I'm right and you're wrong?" - A [Insert party here] politician.
 
I'm just curious about what these counties want parents to do that can't stay home with their kids? I know with middle and high school aged kids, they could, in theory at least, be left home alone all day while doing remote learning. But you can't really leave a first grader home all day, can you?
 
I'm just curious about what these counties want parents to do that can't stay home with their kids? I know with middle and high school aged kids, they could, in theory at least, be left home alone all day while doing remote learning. But you can't really leave a first grader home all day, can you?

No, I don't think that's legal. I don't think they care that you're up the creek if you can't stay home with your kids. I can tell you what will happen in those cases though. A neighborhood mom will "home school" the neighborhood children. In some cases that might even work out decently well. In a lot of cases it won't, and will result in more lost/delayed education, and a poor environment for the kids. The amount of background checks, vetting, and certification that goes into hiring a teacher compared to the homebody at the end of the block... whew...

Edit:

Also I shudder to think at what high schoolers will be up to when left at home. Certainly not activities which could result in transmission of coronavirus... never.
 
This is where we are as a society right now. Nobody can figure out common ground, or anything in-between. It's all or nothing. All left or all right (I hate that there even is such a thing as a left or right on this issue, it's not really a political issue). No such thing as "being reasonable". As a result, everything is a mess.

Maybe that's where we were all along, but now have a "leader" that makes everything left vs right. I also hate when people generalize (oh the left/right is at it again). It just shows that they most likely barely thought about the issue at hand and are following whatever somebody said. Also shows a lot of buy-in to the two party system in the US.
 
If the world population is 8 billion and we have 500,000 deaths then if we translated this into a 100,000 seat stadium then how many people in the stadium would die with Covid-19 in 3 months. Answer : 6


In the UK 70, with most of them over 70 years old,similar numbers in the US.

The british government know the virus is fizzling out over here, The stats tell us that

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...he-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

Can't wait until the government tell us that masks saved millions of lives.

Due to its rather low lethality, Covid-19 falls at most into level 2 of the five-level pandemic plan developed by US health authorities. For this level, only the “voluntary isolation of sick people” is to be applied, while further measures such as face masks, school closings, distance rules, contact tracing, vaccinations and lockdowns of entire societies are not recommended.
So you doesn't consider that the almost world wide lockdown has made the number of deaths less? And when everyone opens up the number of people in the ICU will rise to the point of filli-up and that will lead to triage and subsequently even more deaths. It's way too soon to say what the mortality rate will be in an open society.
 
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/california-orange-county-reopen-school-no-masks-trnd/index.html

Meanwhile, Orange County seems to be not quite getting it right either. No masks or social distancing at the school? Uh... why? Because it might not be perfectly implemented... so what? They say it might be harmful, but I mean obviously don't require masks when the kid is running track outside.

Why is this so hard to understand? Having school is not impossible, and it's also not easy. It's in-between much like almost all of life right now. It takes extra effort but not insurmountable effort.

So we've had months to get ready, and consider, and plan, and what has CA come up with. LA says "no in person school because we can't figure it out", and OC says "in person school just like before because we can't be bothered". Fail. Take reasonable precautions.

Edit:

This is where we are as a society right now. Nobody can figure out common ground, or anything in-between. It's all or nothing. All left or all right (I hate that there even is such a thing as a left or right on this issue, it's not really a political issue). No such thing as "being reasonable". As a result, everything is a mess.
I see it as a matter of choices.
Some place safety as the highest, best choice. Safety from disease, and safety from liability of all kind.
Others place opportunity for freedom, money-making, social contact/education as their choice.
You can't have it both ways. It's hard to find a reliable, definable middle way, as so little is known about the true nature of the problem. We don't even know how it got into the human population, although serious questions are just now starting to be asked about that.

People are liable to make their choice on their personal circumstances. Choices made at the state level have a different set of criteria.
 
Here's a nifty mystery all are invited to solve:

July 13, 2020, 8:57 PM

Buenos Aires (AFP) - Argentina is trying to solve a medical mystery after 57 sailors were infected with the coronavirus after 35 days at sea, despite the entire crew testing negative before leaving port.

The Echizen Maru fishing trawler returned to port after some of its crew began exhibiting symptoms typical of COVID-19, the health ministry for the southern Tierra del Fuego province said Monday.

According to the ministry, 57 sailors, out of 61 crew members, were diagnosed with the virus after undergoing a new test.

However, all of the crew members had undergone 14 days of mandatory quarantine at a hotel in the city of Ushuaia. Prior to that, they had negative results, the ministry said in a statement.

https://news.yahoo.com/mystery-argentine-sailors-infected-virus-35-days-sea-035702418.html
As mentioned above, it is possible that one person had the virus and it didn't show up in a test, and that it was dormant for several weeks before making them infectious and thus infecting almost everyone else on board. That would, however, beg the question of how everyone else got enough virus to simultaneously test positive if the incubation period can vary so much. It could be though that once one person has enough virus to be infectious, everyone else gets enough of a viral dose to make the incubation period of the virus more uniform,

Either that, or someone from outside (e.g. a person delivering supplies) passed it on during a visit to the ship, which seems very plausible.
 
Propaganda much?

Not really directed at you @Danoff. Unless you actually believe this crap.

I have a kid, 7 years old. I drop her off at school every day. She puts on a mask, gets her temperature taken, answers questions, and heads into the building, inside she washes her hands. No, she doesn't get sprayed with mist or anything like that, but the dropoff does not look much different from this. I do it every day.

I assume the video was completely staged. It doesn't matter.

Nearly one-third of children tested for COVID in Florida are positive. Palm Beach County’s health director warns of risk of long-term damage
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200714-xcdall2tsrd4riim2nwokvmsxm-story.html

:lol: That's an interesting statistic.
 
Nearly one-third of children tested for COVID in Florida are positive. Palm Beach County’s health director warns of risk of long-term damage
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...0200714-xcdall2tsrd4riim2nwokvmsxm-story.html

Part of the problem with that is they're deeming anyone under the age of 18 as a "child", which, in a medical sense, is true. However, there's a big difference between someone who's 17 and someone who's 7 in terms of the likelihood of getting COVID. We've seen that while it's possible that young kids do get it, it's not nearly as severe or harmful as it is with older kids.

What we should do is analyze the data for all pediatric tests across the US and break it down by age. My hunch is you'll see a curve that starts at next to 0 for patients under 1 and skyrocket by the time they reach 18. The important bit would be to figure out where the upward curve starts to increase rapidly and use that to make decisions surrounding school. If a 12-year-old is ten times more likely to get COVID than a 10-year-old, then counties need to compare those ages to which grade they'll be in and focus their efforts there.

As an added benefit, this data would also allow us to figure out why younger kids are less likely to get COVID, and when they do, why it's less severe for the most part. It could provide some more insight into the virus, as well as help us figure out better treatments.

I have a kid, 7 years old. I drop her off at school every day. She puts on a mask, gets her temperature taken, answers questions, and heads into the building, inside she washes her hands. No, she doesn't get sprayed with mist or anything like that, but the dropoff does not look much different from this. I do it every day.

I take my little dude to daycare every day and it's largely the same process. All the workers wear masks, but the kids do not since they're all under the age of five and most are in the 2-3 range. Parents are not allowed in the building and must wear masks while walking up to the door. Anything kids bring with them is sanitized and shoes are taken off, sanitized, then kept outside in the sun. Once inside, they take the kid's temperature and record it. I have to fill out a sheet of paper everyday that says what time I dropped him off, if he has any one of ten symptoms, and has he been anywhere other than daycare and home.

All-in-all I feel pretty safe dropping him off there. They also keep the kids outside as much as possible too, which certainly helps.
 
Part of the problem with that is they're deeming anyone under the age of 18 as a "child", which, in a medical sense, is true. However, there's a big difference between someone who's 17 and someone who's 7 in terms of the likelihood of getting COVID. We've seen that while it's possible that young kids do get it, it's not nearly as severe or harmful as it is with older kids.

What we should do is analyze the data for all pediatric tests across the US and break it down by age. My hunch is you'll see a curve that starts at next to 0 for patients under 1 and skyrocket by the time they reach 18. The important bit would be to figure out where the upward curve starts to increase rapidly and use that to make decisions surrounding school. If a 12-year-old is ten times more likely to get COVID than a 10-year-old, then counties need to compare those ages to which grade they'll be in and focus their efforts there.

As an added benefit, this data would also allow us to figure out why younger kids are less likely to get COVID, and when they do, why it's less severe for the most part. It could provide some more insight into the virus, as well as help us figure out better treatments.



I take my little dude to daycare every day and it's largely the same process. All the workers wear masks, but the kids do not since they're all under the age of five and most are in the 2-3 range. Parents are not allowed in the building and must wear masks while walking up to the door. Anything kids bring with them is sanitized and shoes are taken off, sanitized, then kept outside in the sun. Once inside, they take the kid's temperature and record it. I have to fill out a sheet of paper everyday that says what time I dropped him off, if he has any one of ten symptoms, and has he been anywhere other than daycare and home.

All-in-all I feel pretty safe dropping him off there. They also keep the kids outside as much as possible too, which certainly helps.
It's better than nothing and at least you and they are trying. Good job 👍
 
Because right now, everyone's just clapping hands and slapping each other on the ass in congratulations for passing Phase 1.....
And phase 1 is when? Next year? 2022? Not sure about you but I'm already more than done with this crap already. Breaking point not too far off.
 
And phase 1 is when? Next year? 2022? Not sure about you but I'm already more than done with this crap already. Breaking point not too far off.
Dude... Chill. Don't do anything irrational. I know you're in Arizona which is not handling this well. Go out for a drive and get some fresh air

:cheers:
 
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