COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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And as for the morons referred to earlier.... There has been a huge amount of propaganda from governments, pharma, media the like of which there has never been. All the money and propaganda is of no use, anymore. Millions of people has looked at the facts and the figures, instead of getting the spoon-fed ******** from the media. It was good at the start, because we didn't know what it was, so better safe than sorry. Now there are two results. One is that it's not so dangerous, but the media-machine brainwashed a large percentage of the population, not morons please, some people still believe the hype and are reading this. The second is that the longer the media peddles their crap, the more people will see through it.

...I almost never quote someone when the poster in question has been quoted by others already, but man, this bit made me laugh unintentionally.

Seriously? The best you can come up with is "It's a conspiracy!!"

Conspiracy to achieve what exactly? To turn you into a mask-wearing sheep? And make you buy whatever imaginary vaccine/treatment drugs they - whoever they are - come up with?

One more time: Seriously?
 
Seriously? The best you can come up with is "It's a conspiracy!!"

Conspiracy to achieve what exactly?

Overthrow the legitimate government of Swamp-draining, chosen-by-God President Donald J. Trump. Embed chips in the population at large. Promote the communist/autocratic New World Order. Seize the guns of the US citizenry. Flood the country with illegal, Democrat-voting aliens. ETC.
 
due to increased Corona Virus cases in Anchorage, additional restrictions will be in place Friday

https://www.ktuu.com/2020/07/22/anc...tional-restrictions-with-new-emergency-order/

Gathering Limitations: Indoor gatherings are limited to no more than 25 people. Outdoor gatherings involving consumption of food or drink are limited to 50 people or fewer. This does not limit shopping at farmer’s markets or outdoor food-truck events or the continuation of drive-in events where groups remain in separate vehicles and maintain physical distancing.

Bars and Nightclub Capacity Limited: Bars and nightclubs are limited to 25 percent of maximum building occupancy indoors and outdoors; including staff and customers.

Restaurant and Brewery Capacity Limited: Restaurants and breweries are limited to 50 percent of maximum building occupancy indoors; including staff and customers. Outdoors, restaurants are limited to table service, with tables no less than 10 feet apart.

Capacity Limitations at Gyms, Bingo Halls, Theaters, and Other Recreation and Entertainment Facilities: Indoor entertainment and recreation facilities including gyms and bingo halls are limited to 50 percent of building occupancy.

Legible Visitor Logs Required: All establishments serving the public in a sit-down setting, or for an in-person appointment or service lasting fifteen minutes or longer, must keep a legible record of the first and last name, phone number, and email address of all adult customers or clients for no less than 30 days. This information will only be collected if needed for contact tracing or enforcement of this order.
 


What some of you will like about this video is that they disagree with my herd immunity thoughts. But that's okay, I already know that I'm not an expert, I'm quite happy to change my mind if what someone says makes sense.
 
...I almost never quote someone when the poster in question has been quoted by others already, but man, this bit made me laugh unintentionally.

Seriously? The best you can come up with is "It's a conspiracy!!"

Conspiracy to achieve what exactly? To turn you into a mask-wearing sheep? And make you buy whatever imaginary vaccine/treatment drugs they - whoever they are - come up with?

One more time: Seriously?

Where did I say there was a conspiracy? Do you not agree with what I said? Then tell us what you believe is happening/happened? Pharma want money, politicians want power, I don't believe they are colluding, but they do have their vested interests.
 
The Tea Party has arisen from their grave in the back garden of the Republican Senate. The worry is there will be very little if any more federal coronavirus relief money from the government. This will have important, dramatic and immediate effects on the economy, the process of attacking the pandemic, and probably the election itself. Enjoy.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...-up-against-mcconnells-1-trillion-relief-plan
 
I'm quite happy to change my mind if what someone says makes sense.
You know you're another shining example that the word, "Irony" needs to updated in dictionaries to have Covid has its leading example. Because everything a Covid skeptic says about others, (such as "if what someone says makes sense") usually displays their own shortcomings.
 
I went to the pub last night for the first time in 4.5 months.

I didn't really want to go and was quite apprehensive, but it went well and the bar (Brewdog) was very well organised (well, mostly).

We had to register our details on their website and show the staff our 'ticket' on entry to prove that we had registered - pretty easy and clever way of doing that, and relatively hassle-free. Our table was right next to a huge open window (which I think is a new addition to the bar), and the nearest other people were around 6ft away. Everything was table service (though they were a bit poor at that, given they only had two staff doing table service), and they had bottles of (homemade) hand sanitizer available for customers. They also had a 'one in, one out' policy in the bathrooms (which didn't always work) and hand sanitizer on the wall for use before/after the bathroom. They also had perspex shields for bigger tables so they could accommodate more than one group of people, and the staff were wearing masks the whole time. All in all, pretty impressive and well organised.

Still, it's the first time I have not been socially distanced from anyone other than my own family. That said, the other three people I was with had been in lockdown for the same length of time as me and it was the first outing for all of us since before lockdown, so I reckon we were a pretty safe 'bubble'.

That said, I am definitely not going to be socialising nearly as much as I did in the past for some time. Last night was something of a unique event - it was my friend's last night in Glasgow, it was my first day back, it was a kind of new job celebration for me, and last but not least, we also submitted our paper yesterday (of which three of us were co-authors) - and not to mention it could well be the last time the four of us are in the same bar together, so it would have been bad to miss it.

-

I am, however, very mindful of the fact any trip to a pub or similar social gathering puts a new 14-day gap between when I could safely visit my family again. If I need to return to my Mum's place sooner than expected, then I will have to treat it like I am isolating and not share her living spaces when I go home, which would be very difficult - but it would be better than not being able to stay at all.
 
Where did I say there was a conspiracy? Do you not agree with what I said? Then tell us what you believe is happening/happened? Pharma want money, politicians want power, I don't believe they are colluding, but they do have their vested interests.

...Sorry about the late reply. Can only pop in here for a few minutes at best and that's not enough time to formulate a proper response, unfortunately.

You certainly didn't outright mention "conspiracy" in your rant, so yeah, my bad. Didn't mean to 'put words in your mouth'. :rolleyes:

And obviously from my post, no I don't agree with you. I think you've seen way too many movies and TV shows. Or maybe twitter/Facebook/reddit/4chan posts or whatever.

You honestly want to know what I think? I dunno, since I wasn't there when the 'cartel' of pharmaceutical company CEOs, el Presidentes, Chairmen and Chancellors were holding a champagne-filled, back-slapping congratulatory celebration on job well done, you see.

Seriously honestly, though? I heard somewhere that often times, reality is far more mundane than you think. I don't think there's a fantastic 'conspiracy' at work here, just a bunch of incompetent people who got wrong-footed by several factors and are scrambling to get out of this with least damage as possible. Which doesn't automatically equate to every media house under the sun 'working together' to feed you unprintable things on the behest of... some people or rather.

It's good that you're at least 'willing to change mind'. Wonder what it will take to do so, though.

Oops, out of time already. Later.
 
Research: Norway says ‘200,000 people would need to wear face masks to prevent one new infection per week’

A report from the Norwegian Institute of Public Health has reviewed the evidence on whether individuals in the community who don’t have Covid-19 symptoms should wear face masks to reduce the spread of the virus. It says randomised trials show a small protective effect from wearing medical face masks, but a nationwide training programme would be needed as incorrect use limits their effectiveness. On the use of non-medical face masks, it says there is ‘no reliable evidence’. The review concludes that, with infection rates low in Norway, ‘assuming that 20% of people infectious with Sars-CoV-2 do not have symptoms, and assuming a risk reduction of 40% for wearing face mask, 200,000 people would need to wear facemasks to prevent one new infection per week in the current epidemiological situation’. So, ‘wearing face masks... is not recommended for individuals in the community without respiratory symptoms’. Last week, Norway carried out 446 tests and had one positive diagnosis per 100,000 people; the UK carried out 1,240 pillar 1 and 2 tests and had five positive diagnoses per 100,000 people.

On my earlier thoughts of herd-immunity 20% (the science for this virus hasn't been proved either way so don't be too sure of yourselves).


The virus paradox


Yet another case has emerged of Covid-19 going into apparent retreat once around a fifth of a population has been infected. Serological tests on 21,387 residents of Delhi by the Indian Centre for Disease Control suggest that 23.5 per pent of the city’s population have antibodies to Sars-Cov-2, the virus which causes Covid-19. Remarkably, this is a higher proportion than has been measured in New York, where 22.7 per cent were found to have been infected with the virus. The tests in Delhi were carried out between 27 June and 10 July. Since then, the epidemic seems to have peaked and receded.

The infection rate comes as a surprise given Delhi’s relatively low numbers of deaths. As the population of Delhi’s National Capital Territory is 16 million, the antibody figures suggest that 3.76 million people in the city have been infected. Up until Saturday, the Indian government had recorded 3,571 deaths in Delhi. That would give an Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of just 0.094 per cent – far lower than the estimates of 0.5 per cent to 1 per cent suggested by the experience of European and North American countries and no higher than seasonal flu.

There are some questions over the reporting of Covid deaths in Delhi. According to Indian newspaper the Print, Delhi’s three municipal authorities have individually reported 4,155 deaths – higher than the government’s figures for the city. However, the higher figure does not significantly change calculations for the IFR – it is still well below estimates in the west.


The Delhi figures reveal a paradox which is becoming increasingly clear across much of the world: Covid-19 seems to be turning out to be a good deal less deadly in the developing world than in Europe and North America. Fears that inferior healthcare services would lead to an explosion in deaths in developing countries have not been borne out. Perhaps they have been affected by milder strains of the virus. The younger age profiles and lower obesity rates in developing countries may well be a factor. Moreover, there may be a different age profile of those infected: one of the factors in countries with very high death rates, such as Italy, Spain and Britain, is how the infection was able to rage in care homes back. There is also the possibility that people in some parts of the world have gained some kind of immunity to Covid-19 thanks to having been exposed to a similar coronavirus in the past.


The news from Delhi does not suggest that India’s strict lockdown was any more effective than that in Britain. But it does provide hope that the global pandemic will prove a lot less deadly than many have feared.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Just trying to make you feel better.

And @JoeyD a quote from you pdf you posted in the small print at the end.
One study showed that a 12- layered cotton mask was as effective as a surgical mask, but a single- layered cloth mask was not protective against beta- coronaviruses.(Which includes Covid-19)

And @FPV MIC on the 30 year-old who died after a covid party. https://www.wired.com/story/the-latest-covid-party-story-gets-a-twist/
 
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One study showed that a 12- layered cotton mask was as effective as a surgical mask, but a single- layered cloth mask was not protective against beta- coronaviruses.(Which includes Covid-19)

I'd like to understand the point you're trying to make here. A box of surgical masks can be picked up at a gas station, and via amazon.

Edit:

BTW surgical masks are my go-to recommendation for everyone in terms of mask wearing. Including my 7 year old (hers has designs on it). The paper surgical masks are cheap, super light weight, you can almost forget you're wearing it, and they come with a form fitting strip across the top that you can contour to your nose. They're not quite as effective as an N95, but they're waaaaay more comfortable. I reserve my N95 usage for indoor environments with lots of people, especially where I suspect those people will be unmasked. Basically it's not needed at this point in CO because mask usage is required indoors in all public spaces.

And before anyone says it, surgical masks made by the same processes (probably at the same factories) can be bought which do not have the necessary certifications for use in hospitals. So you're not depriving health care workers of these.

You should not be taking chance on a cloth mask being as effective as a surgical mask. There are basically no benefits that I know of to wear a cloth mask except that it's warmer, which might be beneficial in the winter. In the summer, cloth masks are more expensive, hotter, restrict breathing more, offer less protection, and do not conform as well to your face.

I see people wearing cloth masks all the time, and I have to wonder why. Can anyone here provide me with a reason that most people are wearing cloth? I'd like to understand it.
 
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A report from the Norwegian Institute of Public Health has reviewed the evidence on whether individuals in the community who don’t have Covid-19 symptoms should wear face masks to reduce the spread of the virus. It says randomised trials show a small protective effect from wearing medical face masks, but a nationwide training programme would be needed as incorrect use limits their effectiveness.

That's in terms of the Norwegian incidence rate. I think you'd agree that other countries are well into the second threshold that they describe.

a nationwide training programme would be needed as incorrect use limits their effectiveness.

It says that people need to be told how to use them to avoid a false sense of security in incorrect usage. The way you re-wrote it made it sound so much more serious and difficult. Did you entirely understand the paper you linked?

On the use of non-medical face masks, it says there is ‘no reliable evidence’.

That full stop demonstrates just how thoroughly quote-mined that is. It goes on to say that there is no reliable evidence from community settings (because no study has been undertaken), and that there is only limited evidence from laboratory studies of potential differences in effectiveness when different products are used in the community.

It feels like you either didn't understand the paper or you're deliberately trying to misrepresent it.

I couldn't be fagged with the rest of your post after that.
 
My point is that a single layered mask is of no use. And I didn't provide the source JoeyD did.

Did 1081 just waft in. With nothing useful as ever. You mean the bit about if the situation gets worse then mask should be reconsidered. It shouldn't be reconsidered if they know what they are talking about, they must be implemented, of course they know it won't make any difference , hence the reconsidering.
 
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My point is that a single layered mask is of no use. And I didn't provide the source JoeyD did.

Let's pretend you're injured in the woods with a surgeon (and his tools) and you need surgery to live. Let's also pretend that the only mask you have around is a bandanna. Are you telling me you would not want the surgeon to operate on you wearing the bandanna vs without? A single layer mask is preferable to nothing. But studies on a significantly less effective mask are going to more difficult to come by, because you have to find situations where people were forced to use them over cheap alternatives which are highly effective.

But let's suppose that you were right (and I don't think you are) that a single-layer cloth mask has absolutely zero use. Why is this important given that we have huge access to effective masks? All this would say (if it were true, and I don't think it is) is that one should use a more effective mask. That's true anyway.
 
And @JoeyD a quote from you pdf you posted in the small print at the end.
One study showed that a 12- layered cotton mask was as effective as a surgical mask, but a single- layered cloth mask was not protective against beta- coronaviruses.(Which includes Covid-19)

I called that out in my post. Look at the photos in the study though, it clearly shows why any form of face covering is better than no face covering.

I see people wearing cloth masks all the time, and I have to wonder why. Can anyone here provide me with a reason that most people are wearing cloth? I'd like to understand it.

I think people just don't know and many state health departments, the CDC, and even the White House now have pushed cloth masks.

I wear a cloth facemask, but it has a five-layer carbon filter in it and it goes under my chin more so I can tuck my beard in it. It also has a velcro strap that goes around the back of my head.

oWm6zBj.jpg


I know it's not the best solution, but there's something in some surgical style masks that I'm allergic to and causes my face to break out in hives so I'm reluctant to wear them. Not all of them do it so it's kind of hit or miss, but I'm not sure having my body go into immune freakout mode is the best idea.
 
I think people just don't know and many state health departments, the CDC, and even the White House now have pushed cloth masks.

I wear a cloth facemask, but it has a five-layer carbon filter in it and it goes under my chin more so I can tuck my beard in it. It also has a velcro strap that goes around the back of my head.

oWm6zBj.jpg


I know it's not the best solution, but there's something in some surgical style masks that I'm allergic to and causes my face to break out in hives so I'm reluctant to wear them. Not all of them do it so it's kind of hit or miss, but I'm not sure having my body go into immune freakout mode is the best idea.

Yea, I have that one too. I actually still haven't taken it out of the packaging, but I bought it when all I had was the N95 and I was looking to improve comfort. That mask, if I'm not mistaken, is roughly equivalent to a surgical mask in terms of effectiveness. I think it's a PM2.5 mask, which is pretty good protection. I think if I were concerned about an allergic reaction I'd be wearing that too.

The surgical mask is way more comfortable than this. It's the most comfortable mask I've tried. It's a bummer that you have that skin reaction.
 
My point is that a single layered mask is of no use.

Thank goodness you're not responsible for anybody else's health.

And I didn't provide the source JoeyD did.

I was talking about the source that you posted. You posted.

Did 1081 just waft in. With nothing useful as ever.

Knickers.

You mean the bit about if the situation gets worse then mask should be reconsidered

It should be reconsidered in the current epidemiological situation in Norway, which bears little relation to the areas you're trying to sciencing in.

It shouldn't be reconsidered if they know what they are talking about

I seem to recall that English isn't your first language and this is a good example - I think you've mistranslated "reconsidered". Here it carries its literal meaning - contextual changes require literal reconsideration. Literally.

they must be implemented

Because of your mistranslation you seem to be drawing the conclusion that one or the other can be done. That would an incorrect view.

of course they know it won't make any difference

Now you need a source for you knowing what they actually know. So far we only have the previous source you posted to go on... and that disagrees with you. Hope the next one's better.

hence the reconsidering.

The context of your hencing makes no sense. They will/won't reconsider because they shall/will'nt do anything because they do/don't know it willn't/will work. Gotcha.

With nothing useful as ever.

Well now.
 
I see people wearing cloth masks all the time, and I have to wonder why. Can anyone here provide me with a reason that most people are wearing cloth? I'd like to understand it.
Because they're reusable and the people wearing them probably haven't done any research into their effectiveness versus surgical masks. I don't think the latter are readily available in petrol stations over here and not everyone has an Amazon account.
 
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I don't think the latter are readily available in petrol srations over here and not everyone has an Amazon account.

Dunno about petrol stations, but Tesco had a huge basket of them at the entrance last night, £5 a pack (not sure how many, 5 or 10?, didn't look closely as I already have some). Boots stock them as well, in larger packs.

The surgical style is indeed very comfortable, no bother at all. Most people I've seen wearing masks are wearing them properly, very few noses on display.
 
Dunno about petrol stations, but Tesco had a huge basket of them at the entrance last night, £5 a pack (not sure how many, 5 or 10?, didn't look closely as I already have some). Boots stock them as well, in larger packs.
The situation seems to have changed around a lot from three months ago and I bet more than a few people have barely left the house since then.
 
The situation seems to have changed around a lot from three months ago and I bet more than a few people have barely left the house since then.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is actually an oversupply of proper masks now! Smaller pack sizes will only help that, even if it is a bit pricey per mask.

I've visited a couple of people, but otherwise still been avoiding anything other than a food shop each week. Might go to more shops if people actually start wearing masks... sure I'm not alone in that.
 
Because they're reusable and the people wearing them probably haven't done any research into their effectiveness versus surgical masks. I don't think the latter are readily available in petrol srations over here and not everyone has an Amazon account.

Yea you can wash a cloth mask. I've not thrown away a single surgical mask yet though. I go through about 2-3 surgical masks on a given day. One for kid dropoff, one for kid pickup, one for anything else that I do. I wear them once and then put them in a bin that I don't take any masks out of until 2 days later. So I personally rotate through probably 4-6 surgical masks total before I start reusing. So far none of them have gotten dirty enough to need tossing out.
 
My point is that a single layered mask is of no use.

Took us that many posts to get there? Research tends to favor the opposite conclusion, as it happens. They might not be the best solution, but there is overwhelming evidence that they are better than nothing. If people will wear a cloth mask but won't wear a surgical or other mask (for whatever reason), I'll certainly take that result over them not wearing anything.
 
Took us that many posts to get there? Research tends to favor the opposite conclusion, as it happens. They might not be the best solution, but there is overwhelming evidence that they are better than nothing. If people will wear a cloth mask but won't wear a surgical or other mask (for whatever reason), I'll certainly take that result over them not wearing anything.
You can reason with someone forever, but if they don't believe it's "more than the flu", you are sadly talking to a wall.
 
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