COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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Joey D
This is why people need to look past the relatively low mortality rate for COVID-19. While you probably won't die, you could be inundated with other long term effects.

From ‘brain fog’ to heart damage, COVID-19’s lingering problems alarm scientists
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I heard some colleagues talking about the potential for something called antibody-dependent enhancement, or ADE.

This is a known and serious issue for Dengue (and other related viruses such as Zika, which I used to work on), and while there is no evidence yet to show that this is happening in SARS-CoV-2, there is some evidence to show that it is a possibility.

The trouble with ADE is that it would make vaccines potentially very dangerous - helping people avoid a mild illness with a first strain, only to lead to a very severe illness upon re-infection with a different strain.

If ADE is an issue with SARS-CoV-2, it could mean that those who have already had the virus but had no ill effects (or didn't even notice) could be more susceptible to severe illness if/when they get infected by a new strain.

This is still mostly speculative, but time will tell - I think it goes without saying that everyone really ought to be avoiding infection as much as humanly possible, because it is still (way) too early to say that asymptomatic/undetected cases are truly benign.

-

On a related note, I wonder if any testing actually specifically looks for multiple strains or if tests are limited to a single strain?

It is possible that with such a transmissible and (now) widespread viral pandemic that some regions have already been hit with more than one strain, and that some people could have been infected with more than one strain already.

As such, it would be interesting to know if different strains are actually being documented in individual cases...
 
Touring Mars
On a related note, I wonder if any testing actually specifically looks for multiple strains or if tests are limited to a single strain?
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AIUI, testing identifies some (sufficiently) unique part of the virus, so as long as that doesn't change then a new strain would still give a positive test result.

I recall talk of there already being more than one strain, seems that initially it would be noticed in symptoms and stats.
 
Don't know if this should be in the America thread or this one.



Now there are 7 or so people in here who are staunch advocates of masks. That's all well and good if we were talking about a more deadly disease, where the benefits of masks may be more effective. And to those people I would like you to either a) Like this post, or b) Tell me why you don't like the video and explain what you think Fauci should have said. Context is a good word, wish I'd thought of it.
 
tenor.gif


And here's why:
A) It's from a biased YouTube channel still sharing Dr. Stella "Demon Sperm" Immanuel.
B) It's 24 minutes long. Waste someone else's time with some thing I already know is baloney like everything else you argue.

Edit*
What a surprise. Jim Jordan is another moron Republican who was against a Coronavirus subcommittee b/c there was already other forms of oversight (who have clearly done such an amazing job in hindsight /s).

Guy's a shill for Trump who claims the committee was made to attack Trump & that the administration has had an amazing response b/c he shut down travel to China. He's got into other heated exchanges & has an axe to grind.

Edit 2*
Even when the virus isn't the topic, this guy loses his temper & accuses the topic on hand of plotting against Trump.
After Jordan's time ended, the next lawmaker in line to ask questions, Rep. Mary Gay Scanlon, took a jab at Jordan and told tech executives, "I'd like to redirect your attention to antitrust law rather than fringe conspiracy theories."

Jordan interrupted Scanlon, repeating his claims about the leaked email. Lawmakers in the room lashed out at the Ohio congressman, telling him his time had expired. The House subcommittee's chairman, Rep. David Cicilline, repeatedly banged his gavel in an attempt to get Jordan to stop. Jordan continued, insisting he needed a chance to respond to Scanlon's comments.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/ant...put-your-mask-on-2020-7?utm_source=reddit.com
 
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x3ra
Don't know if this should be in the America thread or this one.



Now there are 7 or so people in here who are staunch advocates of masks. That's all well and good if we were talking about a more deadly disease, where the benefits of masks may be more effective. And to those people I would like you to either a) Like this post, or b) Tell me why you don't like the video and explain what you think Fauci should have said. Context is a good word, wish I'd thought of it.
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Tl;dr version:

Jordan: So protests are OK and church-going is bad?
Fauci: People should avoid any crowded places and wear a face mask in public
Jordan: So going to the gym is bad but protesting outside is OK??
Fauci: People should avoid any crowded places and wear a face mask in public
Jordan: So it's OK to violate the rights of church goers, gym users and workers but it's not OK to violate the rights of protesters??
Fauci: People should avoid any crowded places and wear a face mask in public
etc. etc.
 
Maybe you should have fast forwarded to the part when Fauci is no longer there and summarised that. Lack of emotion in your summary also.

I should have given Option c) I didn't bother to watch the video, and then I can ignore anything you subsequently post.
 
McLaren
Jim Jordan is another moron Republican
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It's also worth noting he probably protected sexual abusers at Ohio State too and actively tried to derail the investigation surrounding it. There are even accusations that he participated in the sexual abuse as well, but I haven't seen any direct evidence about this.

x3ra
b) Tell me why you don't like the video and explain what you think Fauci should have said.
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Fauci said exactly what he should've said, and his MO hasn't changed. People shouldn't be gathering and if they do gather they should be wearing a mask. Past that Jim Jordan was just trying to derail the conversation with whatever nonsense he was trying to inject. Should people be allowed to go to church? Yes. Should people be allowed to protest? Yes. Should they actually do either of those things? No. If they chose to do either of those things should they practice physical distancing and wear proper PPE? Yes.
 
x3ra
Don't know if this should be in the America thread or this one.
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How about in the conspiracy one?

x3ra
Lack of emotion in your summary also.
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:lol:

Summarise it again, @Touring Mars, and this time, with feeling.

Or perhaps rather than accuse other people of not correctly watching a twenty minute video, you could attempt to summarise it yourself and draw attention to whatever point it is that you want to make.

Just a suggestion.
 
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x3ra
Lack of emotion in your summary also.
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I'm not understanding the problem here.

Yes, what is happening right now is terribly upsetting and extremely difficult, and it is hard to discuss these issues without emotion - but scientific evidence and medical advice needs to be free from emotion. Tellingly, it is Fauci's critics that seem to be getting upset - and yet, the irony is, they're going to be a lot more upset if people don't listen to what Fauci is saying.

The virus itself cares not for politics, emotion or vigorous mask debaters like you and me. It is emotionless and dispassionate, and thus so should be the tools we use to fight it. But we only have a limited number of tools at our disposal - and we must handle our tools wisely.
 
x3ra
Don't know if this should be in the America thread or this one.



Now there are 7 or so people in here who are staunch advocates of masks. That's all well and good if we were talking about a more deadly disease, where the benefits of masks may be more effective. And to those people I would like you to either a) Like this post, or b) Tell me why you don't like the video and explain what you think Fauci should have said. Context is a good word, wish I'd thought of it.
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As for the first half of the video, they just repeated the same thing with Jordan and doctor Fauci? And what was with the stupid graphics? I like Jordan, but that was pretty jackassy of him. It is not Fauci's job to make policy.

Who was the doctor in the second half of the video? He referred to himself as a senator, but both of Minnesota's senators are women.
As to what he said though, I have seen several things that point to manipulation of both case data, and death data.
 
Chrunch Houston
As to what he said though, I have seen several things that point to manipulation of both case data, and death data.
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Like how our state (Texas) has switched to using death certificates on Covid to get a more accurate reporting (since it doesn't include anyone who had Covid but died of a different cause)? And as a result, there was in an 8% jump in deaths b/c many deaths went unreported?
 
McLaren
Like how our state (Texas) has switched to using death certificates on Covid to get a more accurate reporting (since it doesn't include anyone who had Covid but died of a different cause)? And as a result, there was in an 8% jump in deaths b/c many deaths went unreported?
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I want the correct numbers, whether they are higher or lower than what is being provided. I just want the truth.
 
Touring Mars
I'm not understanding the problem here.

Yes, what is happening right now is terribly upsetting and extremely difficult, and it is hard to discuss these issues without emotion - but scientific evidence and medical advice needs to be free from emotion. Tellingly, it is Fauci's critics that seem to be getting upset - and yet, the irony is, they're going to be a lot more upset if people don't listen to what Fauci is saying.

The virus itself cares not for politics, emotion or vigorous mask debaters like you and me. It is emotionless and dispassionate, and thus so should be the tools we use to fight it. But we only have a limited number of tools at our disposal - and we must handle our tools wisely.
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Always best to handle your tools wisely when having a mask debate...

I'm sorry, childish I know, but irresistible.
 
...South Africa went past 500,000 total cases yesterday. Half a million. Four months ago, we were freaking out about a couple hundreds. Those were good times.

Meanwhile, more and more COVID-19 related cases of government tender fraud are being uncovered, the most high profile so far involving the husband of the president's spokeswoman somehow getting the tender to supply PPEs to Gauteng provincial health department when he's not even involved in that industry. The spokeswoman's taken a leave of absence, probably a paid one. It's gotten so shady that the president himself has come out and publicly said they will do a "thorough investigation".

Human greed will never cease to amaze me. :indiff:
 
Chrunch Houston
I want the correct numbers, whether they are higher or lower than what is being provided. I just want the truth.
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There's various definition of "correct" and "truth", so unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Ultimately we won't know who's contracted coronavirus until everyone is tested. And we won't know who's contracted it after that test until everyone is tested again two weeks later. And so on, and so forth.

The best we can do is to extrapolate how many people might have it from the proportion of positive tests among all tests, and by continuing to track that we can estimate the spread and rate of infection. At least 80% of positive tests come from people who had no idea they'd caught the virus - which means that for every known case of COVID-19 there's a giant chain of people who are unknowingly coronavirus positive.

Deaths are even more confusing. You can have multiple causes of death on a death certificate - usually the one thing that definitely killed you is first on the list, with the things that might have lead to it behind that. However, there may be other conditions on the list that are not actually relevant to your death at the time of your death but which would have caused your death later. Rough example: my dad died of a heart attack (his third) while he was starting to die of oesophageal cancer. They're both on the death certificate, but the cancer didn't cause the heart attack; he would make the list of cancer deaths even though that wasn't what killed him.

The same thing applies to COVID-19... but it's less clear. At present, everyone who dies and has COVID-19 is a COVID-19 death... but you don't have to die from the stuff COVID-19 causes. We know that it causes a bunch of organ issues, especially heart, lung, and kidney issues, but what if you already have them? If you're about to go through death's door with heart disease or COPD, catch COVID-19 and kick it open, did you die of heart disease/COPD or COVID-19? COVID-19 should be on the death certificate either way, but is that enough to class as a death of COVID-19?

How about if COVID-19 causes heart or lung damage, but you die in five years' time from that damage - long after fighting off the virus and being negative for it? Would that be a COVID-19 death, or not?

Should we only take the primary cause of death as a cause of death and ignore COVID-19 on the death certificate unless it's the primary, even if it caused the thing that caused your death?


According to Public Health England, if you've ever tested positive for COVID-19 and die, you're a COVID-19 death. Whatever you die of, whether it's attributable to the damage COVID-19 caused or not - including being murdered, or committing suicide - it's a COVID-19 death. That makes it technically impossible to recover from COVID-19, and we'll eventually reach 250,000 COVID-19 deaths...
 
WTF happened? I couldn't have said that better @Famine. Though I'd be pleasantly surprised if he agreed with me on anything more. I was asked earlier what my intentions were in this discussion.

The Covid-19 situation is overblown. And the majority of the population need to be less scared than they are. I'm not telling people to go out and kiss everybody! Though it would hasten herd-immunity(even if it's only temporary). The delaying of herd-immunity will cause more lives to be lost, if cases go up, a country much closer to herd immunity will ultimately do better even if their current death count is somewhat higher.

Boris is an idiot. His SAGE group was a fiasco, it's members includes seven clinical academics, three microbiologists, seven modellers, two behavioural scientists with backgrounds in disasters and terrorism, one geneticist, one civil servant and two political advisers. No molecular virologists, immunologists, intensive care experts and (more importantly) public health experts.

image1-copy-1.png


I think Boris is worse than Trump.

Incidentally @UKMikey - 9000 german Covid deaths is less than half of flu deaths in Germany under normal circumstances.
 
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x3ra
No. What should i compare it to ? If you have no comparisons then how do you know how bad it is?
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You don't need to compare it to anything to know that's it's a serious world issue. Get your head out of your 🤬

And now we wait for someone less crass to explain to you in a way you might understand.
 
Considering Germany is/was one of the front runners in managing their Covid outbreak, it's no surprise they've kept their death rates low. If this is the road one really wants to dive down though, the US Covid death toll blitzes the US flu deaths est. at 24,000-62,000 (per CDC).

It's almost as if 1 country took precautions seriously & 1 country thought it was overblown. "It's just 15 cases & it'll be 0 in a couple days".
 

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