COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Touring Mars]

I live bang slap in the middle between the 'Louisa Jordan' (aka SEC) and one of the Glasgow Uni halls of residence (Cairncross House) that is currently part of the largest coronavirus outbreaks in the UK. Both are only around 500 yards away...

It seems a tad early to be decommissioning the temporary hospital, but with a bit of luck it won't be needed.

 

[TB]

So I spent two months drawing up plans for all the classrooms on campus. Let's use one of our auditorium lecture rooms for a quick example. With my drawings showing 50% capacity, there should be 100 students in the room. I was there between classes to fix a discrepancy and for the class that was leaving there were 9 people in the room. I'm told other rooms are similar. Absurdly discouraging that all that time an effort was for absolutely nothing.

And if the high schools are anything to go by, we'll be remote only again shortly because our numbers are climbing again.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I have to say, as someone that absolutely hates wearing a mask, being forced to wear it while I walk around and see people wearing theirs on their chin or not covering their nose frustrates me. Granted I am sure they are as tired as I am of having to wear one, but if stores are going to require it, I think they need to enforce it a little better.

With that said, I hope this 🤬 is over soon because there's no way I'm doing this for another year.

 

[Joey D]

I have to say, as someone that absolutely hates wearing a mask, being forced to wear it while I walk around and see people wearing theirs on their chin or not covering their nose frustrates me. Granted I am sure they are as tired as I am of having to wear one, but if stores are going to require it, I think they need to enforce it a little better.

With that said, I hope this 🤬 is over soon because there's no way I'm doing this for another year.

Even if a vaccine comes in December/January, you're still looking at until this time next year where you'll need to wear a mask and physically distance from people.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Even if a vaccine comes in December/January, you're still looking at until this time next year where you'll need to wear a mask and physically distance from people.

Considering the amount of confusion, distrust and outright misinformation that's occurred, I'm personally expecting masks and distancing to be status quo until at least early 2022. Along with the still-growing mentality of "I'll take my chances because I'm tired of this now".

 

[CodeRedR51]

Even if a vaccine comes in December/January, you're still looking at until this time next year where you'll need to wear a mask and physically distance from people.

I only wear it indoors where it's required, and having to wear it for 8+ hours a day at work where I'm moving about and sweating is not my idea of fun. But I'm sure people making the rules don't have to deal with that.

 

[buickgnx88]

...but if stores are going to require it, I think they need to enforce it a little better.

Unfortunately, that requires the owners/managers to actually care about their employees. With the various forms of agression from the public, unless the management has the back of their employees, the employees won't bother to try to tell the people to keep their mask on properly due to fear of verbal/physical backlash (which also says a lot about the public).

 

[Joey D]

I only wear it indoors where it's required, and having to wear it for 8+ hours a day at work where I'm moving about and sweating is not my idea of fun. But I'm sure people making the rules don't have to deal with that.

It depends on the state and what laws they've passed. Here in Utah, all government employees have to wear a mask while at work and they do.

Yes, wearing a mask isn't fun. I worked two 14 days this weekend and kept mine on all the time except for when I was eating. But it's still the best way to slow down the spread of COVID and protect others.

 

[polysmut]

Yes, wearing a mask isn't fun. I worked two 14 days this weekend and kept mine on all the time except for when I was eating. But it's still the best way to slow down the spread of COVID and protect others.

This isn't an anti-mask post but I thought keeping 2m distance between people was the best way to slow the spread?

 

[Joey D]

This isn't an anti-mask post but I thought keeping 2m distance between people was the best way to slow the spread?

Ideally, it's both. But if you're only going to do one, the mask is far more effective than being 6ft/2m apart. Since we're now seeing that aerosol transmission is probably the main transmission source of COVID, the masks do much better than being separated. To put it into perspective, think about a sneeze and how much force it can have. It can easily spray saliva particles much further than six feet, the same goes with a cough. While masks don't prevent the particles from escaping, they certainly reduce the distance they travel significantly.

 

[x3ra]

Ideally, it's both. But if you're only going to do one, the mask is far more effective than being 6ft/2m apart.

Evidence please.

“If you’re going to wear a home-made mask, it should not replace physical distancing, good hand hygiene and the instructions about not touching your face, eyes, nose and mouth,” said Diekema, director of infectious diseases at University of Iowa HealthCare.

Wearing a mask is far less useful than doing those things, he said. More importantly, it could give wearers and those they come in contact with a false sense of security, as if the mask is going to be their salvation

 

[Outspacer]

Evidence please.

“If you’re going to wear a home-made mask, it should not replace physical distancing, good hand hygiene and the instructions about not touching your face, eyes, nose and mouth,” said Diekema, director of infectious diseases at University of Iowa HealthCare.

Wearing a mask is far less useful than doing those things, he said. More importantly, it could give wearers and those they come in contact with a false sense of security, as if the mask is going to be their salvation

Diekema said that back in April, when it was thought to be transmitted mostly by contact (via surfaces etc). I see that your favourite site didn't requote it until July, in their opposition to mask wearing, and omitted the last part of the quote that came after that hanging comma at the end: " and, of course, sheltering at home.". That would be a bit off message for that site I suppose!

Joey is referring to more recent analysis, maybe he'll deign to give you some evidence, not that you'd accept it. Or you could try using google rather than one site for your information....
https://www.google.com/search?q=aerosol+transmission+of+covid&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab

 

[Joey D]

Evidence please.

“If you’re going to wear a home-made mask, it should not replace physical distancing, good hand hygiene and the instructions about not touching your face, eyes, nose and mouth,” said Diekema, director of infectious diseases at University of Iowa HealthCare.

Wearing a mask is far less useful than doing those things, he said. More importantly, it could give wearers and those they come in contact with a false sense of security, as if the mask is going to be their salvation

Correct, if you're going to wear a mask it shouldn't replace other things. You should wear a mask, practice physical distancing, keep up on hand hygiene, and not touch your face. What I said was if you're only going to do one thing (for whatever reason) it's better to wear a mask as that one thing than pick any of the other options as your one thing.

There's plenty of evidence out there that says COVID is transmitted via aerosol, mean when you breathe, cough, sneeze, talk, whatever you can expel particles with a viral load upwards of 18-feet. A mask greatly reduces the distance those particles can travel barring you're wearing your mask correctly (covering nose and mouth).

And Dr. Diekema is correct is saying that a mask can give a false sense of security. Masks are only part of the solution, they need to be combined with other things if we want our efforts to be the most effective.

 

[MaxAttack]

Evidence please.

“If you’re going to wear a home-made mask,

It only took this many words for you to twist and misuse the quote.

 

[Biggles]

It's clear that there is going to be (already is) a major spike in coronavirus cases in Europe - "second wave". Not sure how the US fits into this, as the first wave more or less continued unchecked. However, it also seems clear that the mortality rate is far, far lower. This may be largely because the most vulnerable population is now more protected & better treatments have been figured out. How likely is it that the death rate is going to climb dramatically over the coming weeks? If it doesn't, to what extent would be be reasonable to say that Covid19 is now "no worse than the flu"?

 

[UKMikey]

It's clear that there is going to be (already is) a major spike in coronavirus cases in Europe - "second wave". Not sure how the US fits into this, as the first wave more or less continued unchecked. However, it also seems clear that the mortality rate is far, far lower. This may be largely because the most vulnerable population is now more protected & better treatments have been figured out. How likely is it that the death rate is going to climb dramatically over the coming weeks? If it doesn't, to what extent would be be reasonable to say that Covid19 is now "no worse than the flu"?

In my case it's more serious than the flu as it poses a potentially greater danger to my elderly mum who I'm shielding.

Until an effective vaccine is available it'd be irresponsible of me to treat this as if it were the flu, which already has one.

 

[Biggles]

In my case it's more serious than the flu as it poses a potentially greater danger to my elderly mum who I'm shielding.

Until an effective vaccine is available it'd be irresponsible of me to treat this as if it were the flu which has one.

Yes - but that would be a case of protecting a vulnerable individual. To what degree is it possible to protect vulnerable individuals without shutting down the economy in general? If the cases go up a lot, which they clearly are, but mortality remains low, what is the appropriate balance of responses?

 

[UKMikey]

To what degree is it possible to protect vulnerable individuals without shutting down the economy in general? If the cases go up a lot, which they clearly are, but mortality remains low, what is the appropriate balance of responses?

My point is that I don't think mortality will remain low amongst vulnerable individuals. That's why they're classified as vulnerable. If people decide en masse to throw them to the wolves because there's less perceived danger to themselves, then I'll attempt to adjust my response accordingly. It's still more dangerous than the flu in my eyes.

 

[Outspacer]

It's clear that there is going to be (already is) a major spike in coronavirus cases in Europe - "second wave". Not sure how the US fits into this, as the first wave more or less continued unchecked. However, it also seems clear that the mortality rate is far, far lower. This may be largely because the most vulnerable population is now more protected & better treatments have been figured out. How likely is it that the death rate is going to climb dramatically over the coming weeks? If it doesn't, to what extent would be be reasonable to say that Covid19 is now "no worse than the flu"?

Not sure. There could/would be a major spike in the absence of restrictions, but most of Europe has tightened down pretty rapidly this time around. Anecdotally, it's younger people leading this rise in cases and thus could take time to get through to more vulnerable people.

In the UK as a whole, the number of people in hospital with COVID has more than doubled in the last two weeks. It's that rate of change that looks worrying at this point. Hopefully fewer of those will die than in the first peak thanks to improved treatment.

There's no sensible way to compare case numbers now to those during the first peak, because of the increase in testing and the big changes in who gets tested (which makes it impossible to adjust figures to enable comparison). All we can take from those figures is that there has been a sharp increase recently (well beyond any that could be ascribed to increased testing), and that far more cases are being recorded now that wouldn't have been during the first peak. So that also means that comparing things like hospitalisations per cases or deaths per cases is highly misleading (always was).

Yes - but that would be a case of protecting a vulnerable individual. To what degree is it possible to protect vulnerable individuals without shutting down the economy in general? If the cases go up a lot, which they clearly are, but mortality remains low, what is the appropriate balance of responses?

I think it would be well nigh impossible to shield vulnerable people effectively while allowing the virus to run wild otherwise. A huge number of them, whether in care or not, need assistance from family, nursing staff, other professionals etc., who would be part of the 'otherwise'.

 

[Biggles]

In earlier months there has been a clear correlation between "cases" & deaths, with deaths lagging cases by 3 or 4 weeks. What I am seeing in the stats - for European countries & Canada - is that there has been a very large spike in cases over the last 6 to 8 weeks, but there has barely been any increase in deaths. This would suggest that there has been a significant improvement in protecting the vulnerable. Not a reason to eliminate social distancing & mask wearing, but perhaps a reason to take a more nuanced approach to regulating economic activity?

 

[Danoff]

In earlier months there has been a clear correlation between "cases" & deaths, with deaths lagging cases by 3 or 4 weeks. What I am seeing in the stats - for European countries & Canada - is that there has been a very large spike in cases over the last 6 to 8 weeks, but there has barely been any increase in deaths. This would suggest that there has been a significant improvement in protecting the vulnerable. Not a reason to eliminate social distancing & mask wearing, but perhaps a reason to take a more nuanced approach to regulating economic activity?

To your point, here's data from my locality. Note the total lack of coordination between cases and deaths after the first wave.

 

[Outspacer]

In earlier months there has been a clear correlation between "cases" & deaths, with deaths lagging cases by 3 or 4 weeks. What I am seeing in the stats - for European countries & Canada - is that there has been a very large spike in cases over the last 6 to 8 weeks, but there has barely been any increase in deaths. This would suggest that there has been a significant improvement in protecting the vulnerable. Not a reason to eliminate social distancing & mask wearing, but perhaps a reason to take a more nuanced approach to regulating economic activity?

Only been a moderate increase in deaths - so far - but they are increasing. I wouldn't call it a very large spike in cases, yet, either, compared to the undetected spike in cases there must have been back in March. Just a clear sign that things are going in the wrong direction.

Nuance... in theory, perhaps. In practice, when large numbers of people take any reduction of restrictions as a signal to go out and party, no! Did you have some particular economic aspect in mind?

 

[Barra333]

Only been a moderate increase in deaths - so far - but they are increasing. I wouldn't call it a very large spike in cases, yet, either, compared to the undetected spike in cases there must have been back in March. Just a clear sign that things are going in the wrong direction.

Nuance... in theory, perhaps. In practice, when large numbers of people take any reduction of restrictions as a signal to go out and party, no! Did you have some particular economic aspect in mind?

 

[Dennisch]

We are riding the 2nd wave,big time. But, masks still won't be mandatory, it is now advised to wear one in public. Bars, restaurants etc will close at 22.00. No fans at any sports game, amateur or professional for 3 weeks. The largest cities will see extra measures to try and slow down the rising numbers. We are at 3000 positive test each day now, almost 700 people hospitalised and 142 on the IC. At this rate we will hit the numbers from the 1st wave in a couple of weeks, again putting the strain on the hospitals.

 

[Dotini]

We are riding the 2nd wave,big time. But, masks still won't be mandatory, it is now advised to wear one in public. Bars, restaurants etc will close at 22.00. No fans at any sports game, amateur or professional for 3 weeks. The largest cities will see extra measures to try and slow down the rising numbers. We are at 3000 positive test each day now, almost 700 people hospitalised and 142 on the IC. At this rate we will hit the numbers from the 1st wave in a couple of weeks, again putting the strain on the hospitals.

What has happened to cause this change? Is it the weather, the people, the virus, or something else?

In my state, positive tests now run at 3.2% and falling.

 

[Biggles]

Only been a moderate increase in deaths - so far - but they are increasing. I wouldn't call it a very large spike in cases, yet, either, compared to the undetected spike in cases there must have been back in March. Just a clear sign that things are going in the wrong direction.

Nuance... in theory, perhaps. In practice, when large numbers of people take any reduction of restrictions as a signal to go out and party, no! Did you have some particular economic aspect in mind?

Where I live there is a high proportion of older people - people in their 60's - 90's. Nobody is going out & partying! I would say that a sensible approach is to limit the capacity of restaurants & (especially) bars & pubs & shut them down if they don't comply. Ban large gatherings. Mandate masks & social distancing. In this way, cases can be kept under some degree of control & most of the economy can continue to function reasonably efficiently. Provide financial support for the most vulnerable businesses. Lurching from complete closure to complete opening seems like the worst possible option.

 

[Dennisch]

What has happened to cause this change? Is it the weather, the people, the virus, or something else?

In my state, positive tests now run at 3.2% and falling.

I would guess that normal social life and freedoms returning, and people ignoring the social distancing advice. And now people will lose that again. Because the world is filled with ignorant, extremely dumb and highly selfish people. And they're spread all across the social classes, rich and poor. I have told customers to keep their distance from me, and if they can't respect that, they need to find another mechanic. So many people who keep thinking that it's just a cold or something. I probably won't get sick (you never know of course) but I have a sick dad and a girlfriend with lung issues. I would still like to see both my parents when I want to. If people can't respect that, they get 1 warning before I raise my voice.


You need to be quite ****ing stupid to be this dumb after 8 months of people dying.

 

[Dotini]

I would guess that normal social life and freedoms returning, and people ignoring the social distancing advice. And now people will lose that again. Because the world is filled with ignorant, extremely dumb and highly selfish people. And they're spread all across the social classes, rich and poor. I have told customers to keep their distance from me, and if they can't respect that, they need to find another mechanic. So many people who keep thinking that it's just a cold or something. I probably won't get sick (you never know of course) but I have a sick dad and a girlfriend with lung issues. I would still like to see both my parents when I want to. If people can't respect that, they get 1 warning before I raise my voice.


You need to be quite ****ing stupid to be this dumb after 8 months of people dying.

I put it down to lack of discipline. A character flaw and not a question of intelligence. But I could well be wrong.

 

[Dennisch]

I put it down to lack of discipline. A character flaw and not a question of intelligence. But I could well be wrong.

You're wrong.

 

[Dotini]

You're wrong.

Maybe. Highly intelligent people can easily invent elaborate excuses and rationalizations for their aberrant behaviors.