COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[McLaren]

Dat early writing on the wall….

COVID-19: Most Omicron cases are 'mild' and there's no evidence to suggest vaccines may be less effective against the variant, says WHO official

The World Health Organisation has also urged countries to apply "an evidence-informed and risk-based approach" to travel measures, saying blanket bans will not prevent the spread of the new Omicron COVID variant.

news.sky.com

 

[Nielsen]

I hate it when my country tries to protect me from getting sick and dying because I won't do it for myself and others.

Frickin' Nazis.

So you can only protect yourself and others by taking a vaccine under pressure?

You could also consider the following measures:

• Social distancing
• Hand hygiene
• Face masks
• Vaccination (if you really want to, and not because others want you to)

 

[McLaren]

I like how the 4th option is only if you want to, as if the anti vaxx ding dongs also haven’t done the other 3 bc they don’t want to do those either.

 

[Touring Mars]

Dat early writing on the wall….

COVID-19: Most Omicron cases are 'mild' and there's no evidence to suggest vaccines may be less effective against the variant, says WHO official

The World Health Organisation has also urged countries to apply "an evidence-informed and risk-based approach" to travel measures, saying blanket bans will not prevent the spread of the new Omicron COVID variant.

news.sky.com

I've seen a fair bit of pretty well deserved criticism of this article and others like it today.

Most COVID-19 infections are not only "mild" but are totally asymptomatic/unnoticed. Delta infections are ostensibly "mild" too. "Mild" would only be a good thing if it applied to a larger percentage of total infections, and I highly doubt that will be the case.

As for 'no evidence' of vaccine escape, that's a bit of an obvious comment since the mutant was only discovered last week! It will take weeks or even months to establish this more robustly, but the first manifestation of it will be whether infection rates among fully vaccinated and convalescent (people with prior SARS-CoV-2 infections) starts to rise, but that will take time to establish.

 

[Blitz24]

So you can only protect yourself and others by taking a vaccine under pressure?

You could also consider the following measures:

• Social distancing
• Hand hygiene
• Face masks
• Vaccination (if you really want to, and not because others want you to)

So what do I do about the moron who keeps trying to breathe on me and won't give me personal space?

 

[McLaren]

I've seen a fair bit of pretty well deserved criticism of this article and others like it today.

Most COVID-19 infections are not only "mild" but are totally asymptomatic/unnoticed. Delta infections are ostensibly "mild" too. "Mild" would only be a good thing if it applied to a larger percentage of total infections, and I highly doubt that will be the case.

As for 'no evidence' of vaccine escape, that's a bit of an obvious comment since the mutant was only discovered last week! It will take weeks or even months to establish this more robustly, but the first manifestation of it will be whether infection rates among fully vaccinated and convalescent (people with prior SARS-CoV-2 infections) starts to rise, but that will take time to establish.

Completely understood. It was in response to the comment made on the last page though trying to indicate the vaccines won’t work very well when this is the 2nd article I’ve seen highlighting otherwise.

In all fairness, I agree it is still too early to decide one way or the other but I’ll take a couple articles trying to give early optimism based on actual health experts than one centered around world markets.

 

[TexRex]

From the beginning my point has been that some countries are preparing obligatory vaccines. Austria intends to go through with it from February next year, and Germany is strongly considering something similar. They have already shown what they are about, and that alone justifies condemnation.

Why is conscription of men, which has been in effect in your example of Austria for decades (I can't find an official start, but in 1971 the duration of service was reduced from nine months to six and in 1974 a law was passed allowing those who either cannot or are unwilling to serve in a military capacity to serve in another paid but compulsory occupation, termed "Zivildienst"), not similarly problematic? A number of countries still have conscription, of course.

The United States still utilizes a mechanism for conscription even if it hasn't implemented compulsory service for decades, and I don't see those who are most vocal against vaccination mandates calling to pull the mechanism itself because it can still be used should voluntary enlistment be deemed insufficient. Those who fail to register may be prosecuted and sentenced for up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. It was also once a criminal offense to advocate for refusing it and the conviction of individuals who were found guilty of doing so was actually upheld in possibly the worst United States Supreme Court decision (a unanimous one at that), Schenck v. United States. Thankfully the Schenck precedent was overturned half a century later.

I can only superficially understand it - the more I think about it, the more my head hurts.

Freedom for me but not for thee. It's both a free speech and a property rights concern, since employers and service providers can't ask for proof of vaccination and can't act on refusal to provide it either by termination of employment or refusing to offer goods and/or services.

 

[Outspacer]

Completely understood. It was in response to the comment made on the last page though trying to indicate the vaccines won’t work very well when this is the 2nd article I’ve seen highlighting otherwise.

In all fairness, I agree it is still too early to decide one way or the other but I’ll take a couple articles trying to give early optimism based on actual health experts than one centered around world markets.

Hey, isn't this the third or fourth time that the "writing has been on the wall" for vaccines?! "vaccinated can still catch it", "vaccinated can still transmit it", "Delta makes vaccines useless"... there's never any nuance or science in these calls, just black and white thinking aiming to support the desired conclusion.

A plausible finding might be that Omicron reduces the efficacy of vaccines to prevent transmission by N%, to prevent serious disease by M%, and so on. It does appear to be quite a bit more transmissable, and as such may replicate faster with a higher viral load in each host... so it's not unthinkable that Omicron could cause a bigger worsening of the situation for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated, shifting the balance of risks even more in favour of getting the vaccine.

At any rate, random conjecture aside, it's a huge assumption to take for granted that Omicron won't also change the nature of infection in the "young and healthy" (and unvaccinated) group from being "very low risk" (sic).

One thing to agree on though - we'll see.

 

[Scaff]

From the beginning my point has been that some countries are preparing obligatory vaccines. Austria intends to go through with it from February next year, and Germany is strongly considering something similar. They have already shown what they are about, and that alone justifies condemnation.

Which you based on the incorrect assumption that the vaccine would be ineffective.

I also disagree that public health policies that mandate vaccines justify condemnation, particularly as its a last resort and also the option that was most popular with Austrians when polled.

 

[TB]

So you can only protect yourself and others by taking a vaccine under pressure?

Clearly not. I was not pressured in the least when I got mine.

• Social distancing
• Hand hygiene
• Face masks
• Vaccination (if you really want to, and not because others want you to)

Except that an alarming number of people aren't doing any of these things, which is the problem.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Omicron has been detected in San Francisco

We win!

 

[Nielsen]

So what do I do about the moron who keeps trying to breathe on me and won't give me personal space?

Get a restraining order?

Except that an alarming number of people aren't doing any of these things, which is the problem.

Which is why I’m offended how authorities show increasing disregard for the non-vaccinated group of the population, because too many idiots (both vaccinated and non-vaccinated) disrespect basic guidelines. The world needs behavioural education, not vaccines for those who reject them.

 

[Famine]

The world needs behavioural education

Should have a chat to China about how to achieve that. I understand they've been quite effective in getting the Uighurs to think what the state says is right rather than what the state says is wrong, with special behavioural education camps.


Turns out you can make any kind of state intervention sound scary and Nazi-like with very little effort.

 

[TexRex]

I’m offended

 

[Jezza819]

Clearly not. I was not pressured in the least when I got mine.

I had to travel a 60 mile round trip both times for mine. That's the closest place I could get an appointment. Unless you want to say I was pressured because I couldn't get in closer to home.

 

[Nielsen]

Ironic how you’d poke fun at being offended, considering how disagreement clearly makes you too upset to post anything but dumb pictures. First SpongeBob having a seizure and now this. You’re on a roll.

 

[TexRex]

Ironic how you’d poke fun at being offended, considering how disagreement clearly makes you too upset to post anything but dumb pictures. First SpongeBob having a seizure and now this. You’re on a roll.

I've composed and submitted long-winded posts in response to your bad-faith inanity and I've posted images. The latter is purely energy conservation, particularly when you can be expected to ignore the former; you haven't responded to my long-winded post regarding conscription and why it isn't the concern to you that public health mandates are.

 

[Nielsen]

I've composed and submitted long-winded posts in response to your bad-faith inanity and I've posted images. The latter is purely energy conservation, particularly when you can be expected to ignore the former; you haven't responded to my long-winded post regarding conscription and why it isn't the concern to you that public health mandates are.

I didn’t respond to it because you went down a totally irrelevant path with that angle.

 

[TexRex]

I didn’t respond to it because you went down a totally irrelevant path with that angle.

You're crying because Austria may require its citizens to do something they may not want to do (though I'm given to understand a majority of those citizens are in favor of said requirement) and I brought up the fact that Austria already requires its citizens to do something they may not want to do (though I'm given to understand a majority of those citizens are in favor of said requirement, per a 2013 referendum). You've deemed that to be irrelevant but have failed to provide a basis for this determination, likely because it's based entirely on a double standard and you don't want to admit as much.

I went off on a slight tangent (the thrust of which was technically still relevant) regarding US policy because it's most familiar to me and Austrian policy is literally foreign. As it happens, I do seem to recall you suggesting you're from the Netherlands (I made a mental note because the garbage you so often spew is similar to that of another individual I understand to be Dutch, and which has been given a derogatory term hinting at mental instability, as explained to me by yet another individual I understand to be Dutch), in which case Austrian policy would be foreign to you as well and yet you're compelled to cry about it.

 

[McLaren]

Which is why I’m offended how authorities show increasing disregard for the non-vaccinated group of the population, because too many idiots (both vaccinated and non-vaccinated) disrespect basic guidelines. The world needs behavioural education, not vaccines for those who reject them.

I mean, the majority of these folks in the US are doing just the same disregard for everyone else when they argue about, "muh freedoms/1776/George Orwell/etc" as an argument to not take this particular vaccine.

 

[TexRex]

I mean, the majority of these folks in the US are doing just the same disregard for everyone else when they argue about, "muh freedoms/1776/George Orwell/etc" as an argument to not take this particular vaccine.

At least they're also talking about reviewing requirements for other immunizations. Wait...

And then there's this:

Red States Are Now Paying Unemployment Benefits to Anti-Vaxxers Who Quit Their Jobs

Republican governors have decided to coddle vaccine refusers, even as they cut benefits for everyone else.

slate.com

 

[Nielsen]

I mean, the majority of these folks in the US are doing just the same disregard for everyone else when they argue about, "muh freedoms/1776/George Orwell/etc" as an argument to not take this particular vaccine.

I find it unfortunate how stereotypes have become largely synonymous with objection to vaccines. I mean, I can appreciate people defending their rights, but too often it’s a standpoint tied to a certain kind of rebel.

 

[TexRex]

Stimulus A: "I'm OfFeNdEd"

Stimulus B: "It's unfortunate that people act this way."

 

[Nielsen]

Stimulus A: "I'm OfFeNdEd"

Stimulus B: "It's unfortunate that people act this way."

Finally you get it.

 

[McLaren]

At least they're also talking about reviewing requirements for other immunizations. Wait...

And then there's this:

Red States Are Now Paying Unemployment Benefits to Anti-Vaxxers Who Quit Their Jobs

Republican governors have decided to coddle vaccine refusers, even as they cut benefits for everyone else.

slate.com

What in the world.... So, these folks wanted to kick people off unemployment during the pandemic to keep the economy going, with a supporting base that argues people shouldn't rely on a government hand out & are the "reason" no one is working. Now all of the sudden, they're more than happy to give money out?

I'm more upset that makes perfect sense with DeSantis at helm there in the picture.

 

[TexRex]

Finally you get it.

Always did. The term is "double standard."

 

[Nielsen]

Always did. The term is "double standard."

You clearly don’t get it then. Nevermind.

 

[Nielsen]

Which you based on the incorrect assumption that the vaccine would be ineffective.

We don’t know whether it’s an incorrect assumption. It might as well be a correct assumption. For now it’s just an assumption until we know more about the new variant, but it’s not a wild assumption. Apparently there are reasons to believe the current vaccines won’t be effective against it.

I also disagree that public health policies that mandate vaccines justify condemnation, particularly as its a last resort and also the option that was most popular with Austrians when polled.

It’s probably the most popular option because of the scare tactics employed by the authorities and the media. The masses let those institutions dictate their opinion.

Edit: Apologies for double post, but half a day apart. 😑

 

[McLaren]

We don’t know whether it’s an incorrect assumption. It might as well be a correct assumption. For now it’s just an assumption until we know more about the new variant, but it’s not a wild assumption. Apparently there are reasons to believe the current vaccines won’t be effective against it.

And there are just as many reasons to believe otherwise. I've shared two in this thread, but agree the general consensus is to wait and see.

It’s probably the most popular option because of the scare tactics employed by the authorities and the media. The masses let those institutions dictate their opinion.

As opposed to the other side that lets outlets like Fox News do the same? Aight.

 

[Nielsen]

And there are just as many reasons to believe otherwise. I've shared two in this thread, but agree the general consensus is to wait and see.

Let’s wait and see, but it would probably be the first time during the pandemic that potential bad news would blow up globally and then turn out to be nothing.

As opposed to the other side that lets outlets like Fox News do the same? Aight.

You always speak through some very American lenses. In my country there are no clearly defined sides.