COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[McLaren]

You always speak through some very American lenses. In my country there are no clearly defined sides.

Your posts imply to me there is definitely an outlet in Denmark that feeds you questionable information - "The majority votes a way b/c it's scared by the media".

 

[Nielsen]

Your posts imply to me there is definitely an outlet in Denmark that feeds you questionable information.

I haven’t been fed with any information other than what the mainstream media spews out. I draw my own conclusions, and any similarities to questionable outlets are coincidental.

 

[Scaff]

We don’t know whether it’s an incorrect assumption. It might as well be a correct assumption. For now it’s just an assumption until we know more about the new variant, but it’s not a wild assumption. Apparently there are reasons to believe the current vaccines won’t be effective against it.

Your argument was that the vaccine was ineffective because new variants would replace older ones, that's simply not true.

As such the vaccine will remain effective.

It’s probably the most popular option because of the scare tactics employed by the authorities and the media. The masses let those institutions dictate their opinion.

As opposed to 'youtube research'

 

[Nielsen]

Your argument was that the vaccine was ineffective because new variants would replace older ones, that's simply not true.

As such the vaccine will remain effective.

I started with a question based on personal confusion over these latest developments, and then approached the answers I got with stories that suggest othewise. I don’t really have an argument to defend whatsoever.

As opposed to 'youtube research'

Are you implying I watch YouTube videos on this subject, and based on what? I don’t.

 

[Touring Mars]

Germany has just introduced tough new restrictions on unvaccinated people (excluding people who have recovered from COVID), effectively banning them from public events, bars and even shops.

I would imagine this will not go down well at all, but I can see more countries following suit in taking harsher measures against those who refuse the vaccines.

-

I have my doubts that our Xmas party will go ahead now... there is supposed to be around 30 of us going to an Indian restaurant for lunch, followed by a pub crawl of several local establishments.

Obviously, it was cancelled last year, and this year's event might be a little bit more low-key, though at this rate it might be cancelled altogether. It is scheduled for 17th December...

 

[Nielsen]

Germany has just introduced tough new restrictions on unvaccinated people (excluding people who have recovered from COVID), effectively banning them from public events, bars and even shops.

I would imagine this will not go down well at all, but I can see more countries following suit in taking harsher measures against those who refuse the vaccines.

Denying access to grocery shopping is not humane. I can agree to demanding a negative test and a face mask, but cutting off access to food because people reserve the right to decide over their own bodies. Hitler would be proud.

Like I said, they’ll likely end up going as far as Austria.

 

[ImaRobot]

Denying access to grocery shopping is not humane. I can agree to demanding a negative test and a face mask, but cutting off access to food because people reserve the right to decide over their own bodies. Hitler would be proud.

Like I said, they’ll likely end up going as far as Austria.

I don't even have to leave my house to get my groceries. Are such services not available there?

 

[TexRex]

Denying access to grocery shopping is not humane. I can agree to demanding a negative test and a face mask, but cutting off access to food because people reserve the right to decide over their own bodies. Hitler would be proud.

Like I said, they’ll likely end up going as far as Austria.

 

[Scaff]

I started with a question based on personal confusion over these latest developments, and then approached the answers I got with stories that suggest othewise. I don’t really have an argument to defend whatsoever.

Do I honestly need to quote your original point?

Are you implying I watch YouTube videos on this subject, and based on what? I don’t.

No, your point was in regard to how people (as a whole) get information, do you not agree that some get it from youtube and that the much of the anti-vaxx nonsense that exists is spread via it and similar mediums?

What doesn't help however is you throwing in the kind of rhetoric that such sources also resort to,

 

[Nielsen]

I don't even have to leave my house to get my groceries. Are such services not available there?

Delivery services? They are expensive, so dependency on those are effectively like paying a fine.

 

[ImaRobot]

Delivery services? They are expensive, so dependency on those are effectively like paying a fine.

That sounds like the consequences to actions taken by individuals then. I suppose they can get vaccinated if they don't want to deal with it. It is free after all.

It also only costs me about $9.99 a month, and I liked doing it long before covid started. More or less the same price as one trip to the store sometimes.

 

[TexRex]

Idiot tax.

 

[NAXEHT]

Denying access to grocery shopping is not humane. I can agree to demanding a negative test and a face mask, but cutting off access to food because people reserve the right to decide over their own bodies. Hitler would be proud.

Like I said, they’ll likely end up going as far as Austria.

They’re absolute maniacs.

 

[McLaren]

I haven’t been fed with any information other than what the mainstream media spews out. I draw my own conclusions, and any similarities to questionable outlets are coincidental.

I would prefer if you said you were fed baloney than apparently admitting your line of thinking is the issue.

 

[Nielsen]

Do I honestly need to quote your original point?

If you don’t mind? Originally I asked a question on the need for forcing existing vaccines into people (Austria’s plan) now that doubt is cast over the impact of Omicron. It was answered, and for the time being I accepted the answers I got.

Simultaneously we went off on a tangent, touching on the ethics of forcing vaccines in some countries, on which my standpoint has been made very clear.

What else?

No, your point was in regard to how people (as a whole) get information, do you not agree that some get it from youtube and that the much of the anti-vaxx nonsense that exists is spread via it and similar mediums?

I agree that some people rely on such sources, but there are also sceptics whom simply question the mainstream flows. I’m one of those.

What doesn't help however is you throwing in the kind of rhetoric that such sources also resort to,

Coincidental. I know that some of them mirror my takes, but personally I tend to find them too extreme for sympathy.

 

[Famine]

Delivery services? They are expensive, so dependency on those are effectively like paying a fine.

As a freelancer, my time is billable, and I work a lot in times other people don't, so I'm acutely aware of how much my time actually costs and is worth.

It takes me about an hour to go to the supermarket and buy things, not factoring in fuel and damage to my vehicle from parking near morons and their shopping trollies. To do the shop online takes about 20 minutes, and the delivery cost is - depending on the time slot - in the order of 10 minutes of my billable time.

I do quite like going to a supermarket for a wander, but it costs me an hour to do it as opposed to half an hour to not do it.

Denying access to grocery shopping is not humane. I can agree to demanding a negative test and a face mask, but cutting off access to food because people reserve the right to decide over their own bodies. Hitler would be proud.

Access to food is not "cut off", and this whole "right to decide over their own bodies" spiel trotted out routinely completely misses the point that people don't get the right to decide over other people's bodies...

Without taking every precaution, you cannot be confident that you are not carrying and transmitting a disease that kills 2% of everyone - less if they're younger, more if they're older. Put another way, if there's 200 people in the supermarket you go into and you are carrying it, you're going to kill four of them - but more likely you're going to kill about 50 people over the age of 60, as the people you've infected meet up with their friends, family, and relatives (especially at Christmas), infect them, and they infect each other.

Masks mitigate the risk. Handwashing mitigates the risk. Sanitising the supermarket mitigates the risk. Vaccines mitigate the risk. If each step mitigates the risk by 90%, all four together reduces the risk by 99.999% (the extra 9 is because if you or I wear a mask it's 90%, but if we both do it's 99%).

Of course, supermarkets are private property. You can't whap on about body rights and deny property rights, so they can feel free not to sanitise properly, or make any handwashing available, but demand masks and vaccines. That's 99.9% risk mitigation. Or not demand masks, only vaccination, which is 90% risk mitigation.


The thing people flapping about bodily rights just aren't getting is that up until the pandemic, people weren't usually deadly. You could go about your daily business free from any concern that you might kill everyone in an old people's home. Now you can't - although a lot of people still aren't concerned by it for some reason - because you are a biological weapon. There's a reason we don't allow people to wander around carrying biological weapons.

The fundamental principle of freedom is that you are free to do whatever you want so long as you do not bring harm to other people, denying them the freedom to do whatever they want. Pre-pandemic, you could exist without causing harm to others. Right now, you can't, and that means you don't get to mix with other people without doing as much as you can to prevent it.

This shouldn't need enforcing by law, but the fact so many people just bore on about being allowed to do what they want with their bodies because rights while being completely oblivious to the harm they might bring to others and denying them their rights - because they're selfish, idiotic pricks who don't actually care about or understand rights and just want to do whatever they want and to hell with anyone else - means that it may well end up being that way.

Which sucks for everyone.

 

[Scaff]

If you don’t mind? Originally I asked a question on the need for forcing existing vaccines into people (Austria’s plan) now that doubt is cast over the impact of Omicron. It was answered, and for the time being I accepted the answers I got.

Simultaneously we went off on a tangent, touching on the ethics of forcing vaccines in some countries, on which my standpoint has been made very clear.

What else?

As lon g as you now accept that the new variant is not a reason to stop vaccinations then nothing else.

I agree that some people rely on such sources, but there are also sceptics whom simply question the mainstream flows. I’m one of those.

Which mainstream flows points are you questioning, and what are you using to question it?

Coincidental. I know that some of them mirror my takes, but personally I tend to find them too extreme for sympathy.

And yet you fell foul of Godwin's law, not really a good move if you don't want to be put into the same category.

 

[Touring Mars]

I'm currently in a queue at a mosque waiting for my COVID booster. The old lady in front of me is so old, I think she might be here for her Spanish Flu booster...

 

[Nielsen]

Which mainstream flows points are you questioning, and what are you using to question it?

Based on my own perception if things, and I don’t say this to come across arrogant. I believe the pandemic has been given way too much attention for being a corona disease. These things existed before 2019, albeit in different forms. This may be more contagious but only marginally more lethal, so the implications of fighting it have gotten far worse than the disease itself.

 

[McLaren]

It's the deadliest disease in American history, but it gets too much attention.

Edit: Amongst the 12 most deadliest viruses.

The deadliest viruses in history

These are the 12 most lethal viruses, based on their mortality rates or the number of people they have killed.

www.livescience.com

 

[Nielsen]

As a freelancer, my time is billable, and I work a lot in times other people don't, so I'm acutely aware of how much my time actually costs and is worth.

It takes me about an hour to go to the supermarket and buy things, not factoring in fuel and damage to my vehicle from parking near morons and their shopping trollies. To do the shop online takes about 20 minutes, and the delivery cost is - depending on the time slot - in the order of 10 minutes of my billable time.

I do quite like going to a supermarket for a wander, but it costs me an hour to do it as opposed to half an hour to not do it.

Each to his own.

The thing people flapping about bodily rights just aren't getting is that up until the pandemic, people weren't usually deadly. You could go about your daily business free from any concern that you might kill everyone in an old people's home. Now you can't - although a lot of people still aren't concerned by it for some reason - because you are a biological weapon. There's a reason we don't allow people to wander around carrying biological weapons.

They usually were though. Season flu killed a lot (fewer, yes) of the weak and elderly every season before this pandemic, but back then it was accepted as a condition of living alongside mother nature that didn’t necessitate mass vaccinations.

 

[Famine]

They usually were though.

Not even close to the same ballpark as reality. Also the fun part about the seasonal 'flu you're about to bring up is... you transmitted it while symptomatic. COVID-19 has non-symptomatic transmission. Nice try though.

Season flu killed a lot (fewer, yes) of the weak and elderly every season before this pandemic, but back then it was accepted as a condition of living alongside mother nature that didn’t necessitate mass vaccinations.

Yeah, there's never been a mass 'flu vaccination program anywhere in the world ever.

 

[McLaren]

The world must be different in Denmark. Every year around this time, the US repeatedly, strongly encourages everyone to get flu vaccines. Businesses even make it easier for their employees by holding vaccinations on site.

 

[Danoff]

They usually were though. Season flu killed a lot (fewer, yes) of the weak and elderly every season before this pandemic, but back then it was accepted as a condition of living alongside mother nature that didn’t necessitate mass vaccinations.

2009 Flu Vaccine Line

I personally have stood in a similar kind of line to get the flu vaccine in the past. This year my flu vaccine was about as fast and easy as my covid booster.

 

[ImaRobot]

Each to his own.

I mean, you're not wrong. Though, it's relatively cheap so it seems like an easy, viable option for those that are unwilling to get a vaccine.

How much is it per delivery, or how much is the monthly subscription compared to taking multiple trips a month to get groceries?

 

[Danoff]

viable option for those that are unwilling to get a vaccine.

Apparently we're talking about people who think intentionally getting COVID is preferable to getting the vaccine, but paying a few bucks more for groceries is absurd.

 

[ImaRobot]

Apparently we're talking about people who think intentionally getting COVID is preferable to getting the vaccine, but paying a few bucks more for groceries is absurd.

Which I find odd because I'm betting the cost of not driving there multiple times a month would offset the cost of actually doing the delivery service and/or subscribing to that service.

I do my groceries at least once a week, sometimes just 2 times a month if I push, just because of vegetable and fruit shelf life. Paying 10 bucks a month is nothing compared to the times I'd have to drive out to a store that many times.

 

[Nielsen]

Not even close to the same ballpark as reality. Also the fun part about the season 'flu you're about to bring up is... you transmitted it while symptomatic. COVID-19 has non-symptomatic transmission. Nice try though.

Which people have been told to take into account, but arguably not sufficiently. Later this evening I’ll bring my biological being to the supermarket. I’ll wear a face mask, not to mention buy some new ones because this is my last mask and I never reuse them. I’ll sanitize my hands before entering the store, and generally avoid coming close to other people (part of the reason why I go later than usual). However, I’m sure I’ll come across two or three vaccinated individuals who don’t care much about distancing and somehow will manage to scratch their eyelids after having touched a handle. In that case they will likely pose more danger than me, as I consciously try to adjust myself for having gotten none. Like I said, behavioural education has unfulfilled potential, but criminally overlooked because vaccines.

Besides, why deny some people physical access to supermarkets in Germany, when nothing stops vaccinated people from buying alchohol and getting drunk together. It will always be an uphill battle under such illogical circumstances.

Yeah, there's never been a mass 'flu vaccination program anywhere in the world ever.

Hmm, in my country it was primarily recommended to people over the age of 60. Hardly qualifies as mass vaccination.

The world must be different in Denmark. Every year around this time, the US repeatedly, strongly encourages everyone to get flu vaccines. Businesses even make it easier for their employees by holding vaccinations on site.

You’re probably right about that.

Which I find odd because I'm betting the cost of not driving there multiple times a month would offset the cost of actually doing the delivery service and/or subscribing to that service.

I always walk to collect groceries, unless I can combine it with more distant errands.

I do my groceries at least once a week, sometimes just 2 times a month if I push, just because of vegetable and fruit shelf life. Paying 10 bucks a month is nothing compared to the times I'd have to drive out to a store that many times.

I really don’t know how much it costs here, but it’s not cheap. Between 2002 and 2005 I worked in a supermarket, and virtually no one but physically challenged elders called for deliveries. I think that says much about how much people are charged for it around here.

 

[ImaRobot]

I really don’t know how much it costs here, but it’s not cheap. Between 2002 and 2005 I worked in a supermarket, and virtually no one but physically challenged elders called for deliveries. I think that says much about how much people are charged for it around here.

Then I have absolutely no idea how you're using it as a counter argument if you don't have any idea. That says nothing about the price, and more about how times have changed, even before covid.

 

[Nielsen]

Then I have absolutely no idea how you're using it as a counter argument if you don't have any idea.

Ok, but key word was expensive. It’s relative of course…