COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Veinz]

Of course they do. Gonna be a lot of lawsuits out of this mayhem

I won’t name the company but the current owners are ****ing dirty. There are some bosses there which I think every employee would love to thump.

They act like this because they know they are the only mine 5 mins from town. The rest are over an hour of driving away.

Me, owing to "essential businesses" being allowed to stay open.

My wife is a nurse at our hospital and she’s in the same boat. I don’t want her being there tbh.

 

[sirjim73]

There are billionaire real estate tycoons in most reasonably large cities so they could probably do the same thing without ever seeing a dent in their accounts. As for residential areas? The banks would probably have to step in at that point and either forgive mortgage payments for a month or two or figure out a way to delay them. However, if the banks did this they'd probably want a bailout from the government because they're incapable of operating correctly.

In the UK, Lloyd's Bank is going to offer a 3 month payment holiday on mortgages, subject to approval. Of course interest accrues and subsequent payments are higher, but its potentially a delay to cash going out the window. The cash is, I think, being funded by the Bank of England massive loans at negligible interest.

I imagine approval will be as streamlined as possible due to demand, possibly only an issue if you're already behind with payments (not yet confirmed).

Other banks might do something similar?

Italy reports that for the second day in a row the number of deaths have gone down. 👍

793 on Saturday, 651 on Sunday and 601 today.
New cases have gone down too.
6647>5560>4789.

That's something to be mildly positive about.

Sad for those involved in those numbers, but honestly that's the first positive news I've seen in a month

UK LOCKDOWN!!

People will only be allowed out for basic shopping essentials, exercising alone and travel to work.
Make use of food delivery 'when you can'
Shouldn't be meeting friends or socialising.
All non-essential shop such as clothing shops and electrical shop will close.
Police will have powers to disperse crowds and issue fines.

There are no delivery slots available for at least 3 weeks though, that's the problem. I think the supermarkets need to prioritize elderly and Ill for online as well as in the stores. Maybe have delivery slots set aside for elderly and Ill only?

The guidelines here are based upon how much risk you pose to other people - basically, you could spend all day outside if you wanted to, provided you stay away from other people.

The Government, however, expect people to stay indoors unless absolutely necessary (a good idea for the most vulnerable) but expect people to be able to take one outdoor exercise period (a walk alone) per day, and are allowed out for shopping, medical supplies, or to care for a vulnerable person.

I reckon so long as people get the idea that it is not just about preventing yourself from getting the virus but is also about preventing yourself from being a risk to others then the voluntary lockdown idea might work.... that said, there's a shocking level of selfishness and contempt for other people's safety that I expect enforcement to be required... hefty on-the-spot fines should at least go some way to teach those with no regard for others how to behave.

In the UK it seems to be 50:50 or maybe 70:30 - one half are moving mountains to help those in need and are wonderful people for it, the other half saying " **** it I wont get ill and if the parents die I'll get the house, I'm off to the beach/mountains/etc". Or in other words scum!

 

[Ether]

For those who may or may not have seen our President's daily address, there's one thing I wanted to note that gave me some optimism. Irrespective of your views on the guy (full disclosure, I didn't vote for him), I'm very much in full agreeance with his statement "let's not make the solution worse than the problem". A point he stressed hard I should add. I think everyone underestimates the devastation a recession can have on a people, and just how deadly that can become.

 

[McLaren]

How many of you are still going to work? I work at a gold mine and they only sent some office workers home so far. We get screened at security, our morning safety meetings are split up, and they send us underground in much smaller groups. That’s about all that has been done so far, there has been some talk of them shutting down but I have no idea.

Our company just sent the notice: if you live in Dallas county, you can stay home. 5 days PTO and salary adjustments for commission people, hourly workers receive their full pay. I fall outside Dallas county, so I will be in tomorrow. Hours have been adjusted though and management will send people home based on needs.

 

[Jawehawk]

Ahh, the black and white world view. Nuances are complicated, and not all have the brain cells for such things. That's okay.

 

[CodeRedR51]

How many of you are still going to work? I work at a gold mine and they only sent some office workers home so far. We get screened at security, our morning safety meetings are split up, and they send us underground in much smaller groups. That’s about all that has been done so far, there has been some talk of them shutting down but I have no idea.

Still working. Nissan shut their plants down but the test centers are still going. I'm probably being moved to a PM shift in a couple days so they can cut the number of people on property in half during work hours. Meanwhile we can't go into other buildings, can't touch cars that we are not working on, plus all the other precautions. Motivation to work right now is really low...

 

[Jezza819]

I walked into Publix after work tonight and found a nearly full meat department, plenty of milk, and a bread isle that was about half full as well. I feel like I've hit the lottery

 

[Biggles]

For those who may or may not have seen our President's daily address, there's one thing I wanted to note that gave me some optimism. Irrespective of your views on the guy (full disclosure, I didn't vote for him), I'm very much in full agreeance with his statement "let's not make the solution worse than the problem". A point he stressed hard I should add. I think everyone underestimates the devastation a recession can have on a people, and just how deadly that can become.

Yes, Trump is pushing for "opening" the economy (which by the way is "a tremendous economy, the best in the world, the best it's ever been etc.") soon. I'm starting to think that may be the only route to go, combined with isolating the vulnerable. Social isolation does not seem to be functioning very well, as many people don't seem to give a ****.

The information coming out of the Princess Diamond seems to indicate that many passengers had the virus but had no symptoms. It also indicates that the virus can survive on hard surfaces for 17 days (!). The figures I am seeing from various countries seem to show that the "serious/critical" cases are a small percentage to total infections, ranging from 0% Just a few cases) to a high of 20%. The mortality rate is extremely high in most countries because few people have yet reached the stage of "recovered". I am pretty sure that the number of infections is way higher than indicated by the relatively small number of tests that have been conducted in most jurisdictions.

All this makes me wonder if trying to shut down countries is a waste of time & that money & resources would be better spent on testing & minimizing new infections & isolating & treating the vulnerable, rather than trying to eliminate the spread of the virus completely by isolating everyone & shutting everything down.

 

[TJ13]

I guess South Korea got it right to flatten the curve in 4 lessons.

Lesson 1: Intervene fast, before it's a crisis.
Lesson 2: Test early, often and safely.
Lesson 3: Contact tracing, isolation and surveillance.
Lesson 4: Enlist the public's help.

In which has conducted 300K tests which is 40 times greater than the US.

Which comes to say, if they can do it, we can too in some sense?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

All this makes me wonder if trying to shut down countries is a waste of time & that money & resources would be better spent on testing & minimizing new infections & isolating & treating the vulnerable, rather than trying to eliminate the spread of the virus completely by isolating everyone & shutting everything down.

I think along similar lines. We botched the whole test/contain phase. Might as well throw money at healthcare resources now that it's out of the bag. I see now that we are finally testing in decent numbers (16,000/day in NY) so that's good news. It won't help as much, but the capacity should at least help to prevent outbreaks bouncing back in the future.

 

[Biggles]

I guess South Korea got it right to flatten the curve in 4 lessons.

Lesson 1: Intervene fast, before it's a crisis.
Lesson 2: Test early, often and safely.
Lesson 3: Contact tracing, isolation and surveillance.
Lesson 4: Enlist the public's help.

In which has conducted 300K tests which is 40 times greater than the US.

Which comes to say, if they can do it, we can too in some sense?

Yeah - I think the problem maybe that the US (& Europe for that matter) is not like South Korea. People do not automatically defer to authority. And the population is large & the healthcare system "fragmented".

I thought I would post this account from someone who contracted Covid-19. They are a friend of a friend of friend, so I don't know them personally. I believe they are "youngish" - 30's? It's a long pretty detailed description of what their experience was with a relatively "mild" case. It's easy to understand what kind of strain this would put on health care resources when multiplied by tens of thousands of cases.

I am writing this now while it’s fresh because I feel like there may be important info to share. I have been in the hospital for the past few days being treated for COVID-19. I’ve been reluctant to “go public” about what has been going on with me until I kind of knew what I was dealing with, but I feel like it’s important for people to hear the story from “the inside,” so here goes a long post.

In this post, I am relaying medical info that was provided to me for your education so that you can be aware of issues, but don’t do anything or take what I say as medical advice - talk to your Doctor.

Symptoms:

- started with extreme full body ache. I have autoimmune arthritis so I experience full body pain daily, but nothing like this.
-Horrific finger pain.
- Sore throat
- exhaustion - I was too tired to lay in bed and lift up my phone.
- vomiting/nausea
- fever - generally around 100.5, sometimes got up to almost 102

The doctors said my presentation was very typical. It started with flu like symptoms and it wasn’t until later that the respiratory distress kicked in. When it did kick in it came quickly. I took a bath to try to relieve the pain, and when I got out I literally couldn’t breath. Walking 5 feet sent me into a fit of weird shallow coughing.

Escalation:

I first tried to home medicate with 3 nebulizers, and my wonderful doc from National Jewish told me to start taking prednisone (this was a tricky decision, as I will talk more about later). Within an hour it became clear that I needed to go to the hospital and National Jewish called St Joe’s in Denver to let them know I was coming. Please note: I discuss this further down but in case you stop reading, if you suspect you have COVID and you live with other people DO NOT USE A NEBULIZER.

Hospital:

Entry to Triage

When I got to the hospital, the entrance to the ER was cordoned off and three nurses in biological gear were standing there ready to take temps. I had a temp. They also asked me a) had I been out of the country in the past 3 weeks (yes); and b) had I been in contact with anyone who was positive (no idea). I passed go and went into the ER for admissions. My breathing was so bad I couldn’t answer their questions, and by the time they had me in triage I was in severe distress (their words). My pulse rate was 156, and I was sweating so badly they couldn’t get the IV tape to stick.

The ER

My memory of the ER is a bit foggy. I was put in a negative pressure room that had a piece of paper with a big black “C” for COVID on my ER door. Everyone who came in and out had to be in full biological gear. There is a lot of rigamarole for them to come in and out, and it takes time to do that, which I’ll address more later.

They asked a ton of questions I couldn’t answer (because I couldn’t speak) but I swear to you each of those people were angels. They gave me the COVID test and ran it for a full respiratory panel. All other respiratory viruses besides COVID came back negative. There was a nurse named Steph who I just want to hug (although I’m certain she doesn’t want to hug me). If anyone knows her let me know.

At one point they gave me a med that sent me into anaphylaxis. We think it was one of the antibiotics they gave me. Not their fault - I have never had a med do that. One of the nurses said that my body just may be in full meltdown. When I went into anaphylaxis, it took them a while to get back in my room, due to the rigamarole. That was scary. They stayed on the phone with me as they were getting dressed to let me know they were on their way, which was huge.

They told me a couple of important things in the ER:

1. They cannot give COVID patients who have asthma nebulizers in the hospital, and you should absolutely not use nebulizers at home if you live with other people if you have COVID symptoms. That is because the air you breathe out as you’re using the nebulizer forms with the nebulizer solution (they say it creates a type of aerosol) and the combined COVID-laden molecules hang in the air far longer than regular “air germs” - like days longer. It effectively becomes a biological weapon.

2. Because my asthma was in distress, and as a result of the above, they ordered an albuterol inhaler for me to use. But guess what? The hospital was out of inhalers. Yes, they had a small stockpile for truly emergent cases like mine, and I eventually got one, but for a while we were digging around in my backpack to see if I brought one with me (I had not - I had only brought Symbicort, which I was not allowed to use because it has a steroid, discussed below). (Friends, if you have asthma, please make sure your albuterol inhaler scripts are filled, and get spacers if you don’t have them to make sure you’re getting full utilization of the medicine.)

3. Steroids and COVID are a bad combination. Steroids make COVID worse, but of course they make asthma better. That is why it was a tough call for National Jewish to put me on Prednisone. The doctors at St Joe’s decided to discontinue my Prednisone, but then the whole anaphylaxis thing happened and I was given a pile of drugs, including solumedrol, which is the Queen of steroids, to counteract it. So there was that. Not ideal.

Admission

4. It took a few hours for my hospital room to be ready. I was placed in the intermediate ward which they’ve set up as one of the two COVID areas. The other is the Orthopedic Ward, which they’ve also set up for COVID since there are no more surgeries. The Intermediate Ward is where they’re putting the sicker of the COVID patients at St Joe’s. I was put in a huge quarantined room with my own bathroom and an office window where people could sit and observe me without going in. No sliding glass doors for me - a real door. With a fully adjustable bed that had air pockets that move every once in a while to prevent bed sores, and a nice TV. And a couch and lazy boy chair. This is where my experience will differ vastly from others in a few months time.

5. Once admitted they put me on oxygen (I never needed a ventilator) and I fell right to sleep thanks to some other meds they kindly gave me. The doctors the next day confirmed I had no striations or pneumonia, and told me that although he knew I felt terrible, I had a relatively mild case of COVID. I asked if that meant that I would be immune to COVID. He said yes, until it mutates. Not totally reassuring.

6. Even without the pneumonia, I will tell you that a ‘mild” case of COVID is terrible. And this is coming from a chick who gets sick a lot and has a high tolerance for discomfort. Moving - sitting up, typing on the phone, even holding the phone up, is hard. Walking 5 feet to the bathroom is exhausting, hard, and painful, and sends me into coughing fits and makes my lungs feel pressurized. It is slightly different from asthma. The shallow breathing occurs especially when I try to move, and happens because any deeper breaths result in coughing fits. I took a shower and could barely get back to my bed afterwards. Oxygen helps a lot, and without it I am uncomfortable even not moving. The reason for this lung pain is that COVID causes massive inflammation.

7. The first day of hospitalization they had to have me do a medical power of attorney. The nurse served as the witness on the other side of the window, and signed it on my behalf because they couldn’t bring the document into the room for me to sign (the document wouldn’t be able to leave the room because it would have been infected). Does this scream for a handy online app that quarantined patients can use that syncs with online notaries, witnesses, and permits e-signature? Yes it does. Hello legal innovation.

Learnings

I have a couple of learnings that may be helpful to share, so here it goes.

1. As stated above, be aware of the nebulizer issue if you have asthma and have COVID symptoms.

2. If you have asthma, and you have COVID, steroids are out as well.

3. The above two points mean that the only thing you can use is an albuterol inhaler. They won’t even let me use my Symbicort because it has steroids. For a die hard asthmatic like me, that reality - no steroids and no nebulizer - is terrifying.

4. To beat a dead horse on the three points above, if you have symptoms, ask your doc what inhalers you can and cannot use, (and make sure they are aware of the problem with steroids and COVID!!).

5. Testing at this point is useless. They have a 70% failure rate and the results do not matter. Beyond the failure rate, nothing is clear. In the past week, the CDC has refined how the tests are supposed to be taken, so if you even got one a week ago it may not be relevant. If you are sick enough to be in the hospital, you’ll know it, and based on your symptoms, the docs will know you have COVID. And if you aren’t sick enough to be in the hospital, there’s literally no point for you to get tested. Why is this? Because you should be staying in your house and not out and about cross-contaminating with other people, and under those circumstances it shouldn’t matter if you have COVID. It simply doesn’t matter until you get sick enough to be in the hospital because there is no vaccine. Assume you’ve been exposed.

6. If you do have to go to the ER, follow ER guidance for that, but bring your albuterol inhaler with you if you’re asthmatic.

7. The nurses, doctors, everyone here are dealing with a fast changing environment. They are getting new directives every day, and as wonderful and calm as they are, you can feel their stress. Give them grace and protect them (discussed in more detail below).

8. If you end up on the ER or are admitted:

- whomever takes you to the hospital won’t be able to stay. They won’t be able to stay in the waiting room and they certainly can’t come back with you.

- be cognizant of how much time it takes for your nurses and docs to dress up and down just to come in your room, and that increasingly will be precious time. That means learn how to unhook yourself from your various cords and to carry your IV with you so you can go to the bathroom without calling an attendant. The nurses will teach you and will be grateful. It means asking for all of the things that you need at once while they’re in there, even learning how to turn your oxygen up and down (which I did). Anything you can do to minimize those dress-ups and dress-downs is time they can spend with other patients, and at the very least, means less exposure for them.

- notwithstanding the above, get your needs met. They may start to miss your meds (mine did when they got busy with some other patients) and as wonderful as they are, they’re learning all sorts of new protocols in a high stress environment. And they’re rightfully scared. You’re the only one there to advocate for you since you’re in quarantine, so do it.

- always put your mask on when they start to enter the room. If you have to cough, cough away from them even if you have a mask on. And when you’re alone in the room, still cough in your elbow - it prevents the air molecules from floating around in the room and mitigates exposure to our beloved health care workers.

- hang in there. It is depressing to be in full isolation, and it’s scary when the reality of things like the scarcity of masks and meds is right in front of you.

9. Finally, every nurse and doctor I talked to is very convinced that we haven’t by a long shot come to the worst of this situation, and that in a month or two our hospitals will look like Italy. That isn’t a scare tactic, it is the reality of what our health care workers are saying and feeling. You can tell they understand the gravity of being the front line. Please please please take this seriously and stay put for now.

 

[sirjim73]

Yes, Trump is pushing for "opening" the economy (which by the way is "a tremendous economy, the best in the world, the best it's ever been etc.") soon. I'm starting to think that may be the only route to go, combined with isolating the vulnerable. Social isolation does not seem to be functioning very well, as many people don't seem to give a ****.

The information coming out of the Princess Diamond seems to indicate that many passengers had the virus but had no symptoms. It also indicates that the virus can survive on hard surfaces for 17 days (!). The figures I am seeing from various countries seem to show that the "serious/critical" cases are a small percentage to total infections, ranging from 0% Just a few cases) to a high of 20%. The mortality rate is extremely high in most countries because few people have yet reached the stage of "recovered". I am pretty sure that the number of infections is way higher than indicated by the relatively small number of tests that have been conducted in most jurisdictions.

All this makes me wonder if trying to shut down countries is a waste of time & that money & resources would be better spent on testing & minimizing new infections & isolating & treating the vulnerable, rather than trying to eliminate the spread of the virus completely by isolating everyone & shutting everything down.

The difficulty with that plan of action right now is, frankly, France. About HALF the critical cases there are under 50, from what I read at the weekend. I dont think they yet no the reason(s) why? Until they answer that question satisfactorily, this idea of only isolating the elderly is, in my opinion, potentially seriously flawed.
So far, that seems to only be the case in France, although remember the whistleblower doctor in China who died was 37...

So I believe right now, isolation/lockdown is the only viable alternative.

That's not to say that when the anticipated second wave comes that, given the knowledge we will have by then, a different approach might be the best at that point in time.

 

[Biggles]

The difficulty with that plan of action right now is, frankly, France. About HALF the critical cases there are under 50, from what I read at the weekend. I dont think they yet no the reason(s) why? Until they answer that question satisfactorily, this idea of only isolating the elderly is, in my opinion, potentially seriously flawed.
So far, that seems to only be the case in France, although remember the whistleblower doctor in China who died was 37...

So I believe right now, isolation/lockdown is the only viable alternative.

That's not to say that when the anticipated second wave comes that, given the knowledge we will have by then, a different approach might be the best at that point in time.

Are you sure about that? Smoking? In any case, you'd have to isolate the "vulnerable", not just the elderly. Admittedly, it does seem like there is not enough known about the virus yet. The passengers on the Princess Diamond were ALL tested. From what I understand, many of them who tested positive had no symptoms at all.

My daughter & her boyfriend are holed up in The Hague. They were visited about 10 days ago by a friend who found out while he was there, that his whole family had tested positive. He went back to his family home & later developed severe flu symptoms. My daughter & her boyfriend have not (so far) exhibited any symptoms.

I think the complete lock-down is a reaction to the "unknowns". As time goes on more will be understood about the virus, but the medical experts are scared to let it get out of hand before it is fully understood.

 

[UKMikey]

I guess South Korea got it right to flatten the curve in 4 lessons.

Lesson 1: Intervene fast, before it's a crisis.
Lesson 2: Test early, often and safely.
Lesson 3: Contact tracing, isolation and surveillance.
Lesson 4: Enlist the public's help.

In which has conducted 300K tests which is 40 times greater than the US.

Which comes to say, if they can do it, we can too in some sense?

I was told in no uncertain terms upthread that extra testing is a waste of time and resources. *shrugs*

 

[MUSC4EVER]

So we have another Scumbag trying to profit from this, and surprise surprise its Mike Ashley.

He has classed his Sports Direct stores an 'essential service' so he can keep his stores open during the lockdown, it means its workforce will be classed as key workers and will be forced to work.

His reasoning? That the British public will need to exercise during the lockdown, and Sports Direct stock and sell fitness and exercise equipment....

He sent an email to all SD workers barely an hour after the PM made his address.

 

[McLaren]

First 2 cases confirmed in my town, 1 is directly in my area, likely at the hospital I live near to. Shelter-in-place has been issued tomorrow at midnight.

 

[TheGeologist]

How many of you are still going to work? I work at a gold mine and they only sent some office workers home so far. We get screened at security, our morning safety meetings are split up, and they send us underground in much smaller groups. That’s about all that has been done so far, there has been some talk of them shutting down but I have no idea.

I still have to work. Indiana announced its plans to shut down today, but I found out I'll still be working. It turns out our work has been deemed essential (we initially weren't sure).

 

[Joey D]

The difficulty with that plan of action right now is, frankly, France. About HALF the critical cases there are under 50, from what I read at the weekend. I dont think they yet no the reason(s) why? Until they answer that question satisfactorily, this idea of only isolating the elderly is, in my opinion, potentially seriously flawed.
So far, that seems to only be the case in France, although remember the whistleblower doctor in China who died was 37...

Could it have something to do with smoking? I haven't been to France in 10 or so years so maybe it's different now, but when I was there it seemed like everyone smoked. My friend's Chinese born wife said the same thing about China too, couple that with the choking air pollution and I could see where it's a problem. I have nothing concrete to go on, but it does make a bit of sense.

 

[DesertPenguin]

I still have to work. Indiana announced its plans to shut down today, but I found out I'll still be working. It turns out our work has been deemed essential (we initially weren't sure).

Someone's gotta tell us which rocks are which!

 

[GTPVenomZombie]

So we have another Scumbag trying to profit from this, and surprise surprise its Mike Ashley.

He has classed his Sports Direct stores an 'essential service' so he can keep his stores open during the lockdown, it means its workforce will be classed as key workers and will be forced to work.

His reasoning? That the British public will need to exercise during the lockdown, and Sports Direct stock and sell fitness and exercise equipment....

He sent an email to all SD workers barely an hour after the PM made his address.

I know it’s easy for me to say because I don’t work for Sports Direct but... if that was me I just wouldn’t go in. Health before wealth.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I still have to work. Indiana announced its plans to shut down today, but I found out I'll still be working. It turns out our work has been deemed essential (we initially weren't sure).

The core samples are key to discovering the Covid cure! It all makes sense now!

 

[mustafur]

I hope Mike Ashley goes Bankrupt, but I'm not alone on that.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

 

[zzz_pt]

I'm also still going to work as per usual.

The only thing that changed was my schedule. Now 50% start at 7h30 and another 50% at 9am so the amount of people in close proximity is reduced to half.

Other than that, the company (Deutsche Post) didn't provide any safety gear to anyone (masks, gloves, hand sanitizer). I'm delivering parcels as usual I do. The only thing I have is a 100ml bottle of hand sanitizer I bought for 9€. I can't find latex gloves or masks.

In Hamburg there are 1000 cases atm.

 

[McLaren]

It's the same people proposing that the "young & strong" will keep the economy going, as if we're all immune & can't also end up spending 2 weeks... surprise... over-taxing hospitals because now we're sick.

 

[baldgye]

Heh, soon as the wealthy and powerful need people off the streets homeless is solved... who’da thought

 

[baldgye]

Elon Musk 'gives 1,255 ventilators to LA'
Tesla boss Elon Musk says he has donated 1,255 ventilators to officials in Los Angeles to meet demand as the pandemic becomes more severe.
In a tweet, he said he had helped acquire the machines from China last week and arranged for them to be brought to the US.

The billionaire had been an outspoken sceptic of the severity of the coronavirus clampdown, calling the reaction to the outbreak “dumb” and wrongly claiming that children are "essentially immune", despite evidence that it can be serious for some minors.


Love that the BBC don't let him get away with saying stupid ****

 

[christara321]

Hope its right the money grabbing git.

Sports Direct says it will close stores during coronavirus lockdown in major U-turn after angry backlash

 

[TheGeologist]

Here is a horrible idea.

Texas Lt. Governor suggests the elderly should risk their lives to save the economy.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...should-risk-lives-save-economy-050531075.html

I have so many questions...

 

[Daz555]

UK "lockdown" already looking a little shambolic. Public transport rammed in many places due to the vagueness of what Johnson meant when he said it was ok to travel for "essential" work.