COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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We're still up and running. We're a logistics provider, freight forwarder and US Customs broker. I have 32 full time employees. Salaries are by far our biggest expense. Any logistics operation connected to the ports, airports, cross border trade, is considered an essential business. And indeed we have some customers who import staple fiber (used for making sanitary products for hospitals and clinics), machines for grinding and forming pills and capsules, medications, hospital gowns and face masks, etc. (Along with many other products which are currently of no help).

For years, we've allowed our people to work 2 days a week from home. But for various reasons, it's just not feasible or practical to work more than two consecutive days away from the office. Already 3 weeks ago, we had a plan in place, common areas, such as copy machines, door handles, etc, were wiped down every hour. We shut down having any opened food in the kitchen, the water cooler, etc. (Under normal circumstances people will NEVER starve in this office). We tried to give people clear guidelines on washing their hands multiple times per day.

Two weeks ago, we realized where this was going and scrambled to get everybody who COULD work remotely, set up to do so. (We had restrictions that only employees who have been with us for more than a year could and we've dumped all those rules). And starting last week, we told everybody they SHOULD work from home, keeping in mind that they may have to come in from time to time for a variety of reasons and limitations of the system or our industry.

After last week, it seemed like people were still coming into the office, still chatting during breaks, etc. So over the weekend we put out some strict guidelines in place. They are only allowed to come into the office twice a week maximum, less if possible and are not allowed to stay more than 3 hours, tops: Scan, print, log, grab supplies, do what you need to and go back home. And we've tried to set up a system that no more than 5 people are in the office at any time. My partner and I are alternating days and probably staying inside longer than we should be, but mostly just to support the staff if they need something that can't be handled remotely.

It's not really possible for our finance/accounting to work remotely. Maybe one but not all three. So we have them come in alternating days, just for a few hours. And we're trying to encourage all of our customers to pay by wire transfer, paycargo (industry specific), etc, so that we cut down incoming checks. Hopefully we can get it down to having each of them only come in once per week. (We're still paying them full salary and will continue to do so as long as possible).

But it's tough to say where this will go. 2019 was a great year So far this year we've lost money both in January and February and we probably will this month as well. We hired 3 new people last year. At this point, we're clearly over-staffed but the last thing I want to do is lay people off. We're just struggling to find a rhythm operating like this. But better and luckier than most under the circumstances.

This is the kind of thing that makes sense IMO. Do everything possible to reduce the risk of spreading the infection without shutting everything down. Reducing new infections as much as possible, rather than eliminating them entirely should be the goal. What is maddening is the unresponsiveness of so many people in the early stages of community spread. Every day of delay is going to lead to weeks of additional infections, weeks of restrictions & months of economic cost.
 
Trump is apparently trying to figure out how to lift lockdowns.

I have to say, we need steadier leadership. I'm in favor of some of the things he's talking about, suggesting that people under 40, or under 50 (and who do not have other underlying health complications that could contribute to coronavirus mortality), return to work and trying to keep the more vulnerable members of society isolated. But the strong changes in tone from one day to the next are just terrible. It appears to lack resolve, it also sends markets swinging, and wastes gobs of money as people try to lay out a plan for the future.

What he should do, and what I hope that he does, is lay out a target date, not particularly close to right this second, for healthy people to be exempted from shelter-in-place and other lockdown provisions, but to continue to voluntarily enforce social distancing. Why not right this second? Because lockdowns have already had their impact, and people are already coping with the near term reality of it. It's built-in and you're not going to undo that damage in the short term. So we should at least get the benefits of a "flattened curve" in the near term, since we've already mostly paid for it.

IMHO, he should set a target date of like... April 20 for state governors to ease back on restrictions. And he should set that date now, and stick to it, so that businesses can actually plan. I don't think he has the power to dictate that governors and mayors actually lift their bans, but he does have the ability to set a target or goal, a recommendation, and to set that for federal employees. He should also be recommending that where practical, the efforts that people have put in place to isolate themselves from the virus should be maintained until there is a vaccine.
 
VBR
I'm in the UK. I didn't see the news yesterday, or today. Had a rude awakening when I went around the shops today...

:eek:
Waiting for the zombies to come out of the doorways of all the closed shops and lack of people?
 
If you think going out for running is more important than your health, it's up to you.

I do appreciate your reply, but I think maintaining physical activity is probably just as important as staying away from people. I can't imagine staying sedentary for two months is good for your immune system, respiratory system, and mental health.

How about if the elderly take care of themselves, and we help enable them to do it by continuing to work and providing services to help them isolate?

I'm very much in favor of this. However, I'm getting confused about what exactly people think is elderly. I went to the grocery store Sunday morning right when they opened a 7 am so I could avoid large crowds and actually find things to buy. They wouldn't let me in because I was under 50 and they were having "senior hours" until 11 am. Nevermind how completely asinine it is to have senior hours on a Sunday and not in the middle of the week, but really 50 years old? I could see limiting hours to ages 70 and up, but 50? That's not even close to being elderly.

I have 3 different breweries delivering to my doorstep today. Supporting local business!

And here I am driving to them and having them load cases into my trunk like a peasant.

I have to say, we need steadier leadership.

Every time Trump gives an update or makes a speech, I'm like, "ya he's getting it now and it starting to make sense." Then he says something stupid or focuses his energy on the wrong thing and I'm back to losing even more faith in the government. I totally agree though, we should pick a date and stick to it. Trump is right too, the US is not made to handle a long term shut down.

As for 4/20 for a return to work date? Well, the weed shops will certainly be happy about that.
 
Trump is apparently trying to figure out how to lift lockdowns.

I have to say, we need steadier leadership. I'm in favor of some of the things he's talking about, suggesting that people under 40, or under 50 (and who do not have other underlying health complications that could contribute to coronavirus mortality), return to work and trying to keep the more vulnerable members of society isolated.

Those people can still become ill, even seriously so, they still add a load to health services and still diminish the workforce when they're ill.
 
And here I am driving to them and having them load cases into my trunk like a peasant.
They were all terrified that they would be shut down as non-essential from tonight, so doing whatever they can for sales. As it turns out, only freelance goat herding and underwater basketweaving classes have been deemed non-essential services here. Just about everything else can stay open.
 
VBR
I don't own a mobile phone. Do you mean literally everyone in the country, or just shops etc?
Literally everyone - the text was telling people to stay at home, so it wouldn't make much sense to send it to shops. You also don't need a mobile phone to receive a text message (though it's extremely creepy if it arrives on your land line)

However, as far as I can make out, Government has no mass-text facility, so it has been asking the telecoms companies (which do) to send them. This may mean it was sent staggered (presumably texting every device at once requires a lot of network bandwidth) on different networks.

Nobody seems to know if the message hit every device or not either.

It reads:

UK_GOV
GOV.UK CORONAVIRUS ALERT New rules in force now: you must stay at home. More info & exemptions at gov.uk/coronavirus Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives.
 
Those people can still become ill, even seriously so, they still add a load to health services and still diminish the workforce when they're ill.

Yup. And that's going to happen.

Look, we need to be realistic here (and we needed to from the beginning). We cannot stay shut down until there is a vaccine. Even if we could get one in September, which we apparently cannot, we can't stay shut down that long. The devastation would be enormous. The cure would be worse than the disease. We need to be signaling an exit date already. We probably should have signaled one a week ago. To enable people to plan, and not freak out. How much toilet paper do you have to buy if you think you're stuck in your house for a year? (this is a joke, kinda)

We know that most of the load on health services will come from people over 50. That's the group we should target for sustained extreme isolation in order to reduce the burden on health services. In the meantime, they'll still have to cope with an increased load from coronavirus. I don't realistically see a scenario where people over 70, or people with certain health complications, can return to business as usual until there is a vaccine, not without great risk to their lives, and significant strain on health services. We need to be planning for that too... right now.
 
Literally everyone - the text was telling people to stay at home, so it wouldn't make much sense to send it to shops. You also don't need a mobile phone to receive a text message (though it's extremely creepy if it arrives on your land line)

However, as far as I can make out, Government has no mass-text facility, so it has been asking the telecoms companies (which do) to send them. This may mean it was sent staggered (presumably texting every device at once requires a lot of network bandwidth) on different networks.

Nobody seems to know if the message hit every device or not either.

It reads:
I wonder if this is why my personal and o2 phone lines basically can't call out at the moment?
 
The number of people that say, "I think I've already had it and got better" is interesting. I guess it helps them feel special, or helps justify flaunting lock downs, or makes them appear more hardy... I don't know.. but it did make me wonder. If this has spread unchecked prior to hitting the news, surely there have already been a bit of a spike or rise in deaths from things like pneumonia, predating the current increase?

I wonder if this is why my personal and o2 phone lines basically can't call out at the moment?


I'm on O2, no text message as yet. Did get a BOGOF from Dominos though.
 
Those people can still become ill, even seriously so, they still add a load to health services and still diminish the workforce when they're ill.
Yeh... it is not safe for anyone to carry on as normal.

A lot of focus has been put on the case fatality rate (which now looks to be something like 0.6% for all cases) but not enough of a focus on the numbers of people requiring hospital care which, frankly, people are not going to get during the peak phase(s).

This article does a reasonable job at putting some numbers on hospitalisation per age group (although these are high estimates):

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/23/21190033/coronavirus-covid-19-deaths-by-age

Summary: 10-19 - 7%; 20-29 - 14%; 30-49 - 20%; 50-69 - 36%; 70+ - 55%.

The troubling thing is that there also appears to be a higher infection rate among the 'young', so that 20-29 age group is likely to see a higher percentage of people being infected, and so the total number of people in hospital will be higher from that age group.

These numbers are extremely high - far higher than seasonal flu, and represent a huge risk to the efficiency of any healthcare system in the world.

Right now, lock-down is the only reasonable option - and that should continue until well after the growth rate of new cases has dropped significantly. Even then, until a vaccine or drug treatments are readily available, restrictions (like worker rotation etc.) will need to be enforced in order to prevent further waves (and thus further lock-downs).
 
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The number of people that say, "I think I've already had it and got better" is interesting. I guess it helps them feel special, or helps justify flaunting lock downs, or makes them appear more hardy... I don't know.. but it did make me wonder. If this has spread unchecked prior to hitting the news, surely there have already been a bit of a spike or rise in deaths from things like pneumonia, predating the current increase?

Wishful thinking.
 
I do appreciate your reply, but I think maintaining physical activity is probably just as important as staying away from people. I can't imagine staying sedentary for two months is good for your immune system, respiratory system, and mental health.



I'm very much in favor of this. However, I'm getting confused about what exactly people think is elderly. I went to the grocery store Sunday morning right when they opened a 7 am so I could avoid large crowds and actually find things to buy. They wouldn't let me in because I was under 50 and they were having "senior hours" until 11 am. Nevermind how completely asinine it is to have senior hours on a Sunday and not in the middle of the week, but really 50 years old? I could see limiting hours to ages 70 and up, but 50? That's not even close to being elderly.



And here I am driving to them and having them load cases into my trunk like a peasant.



Every time Trump gives an update or makes a speech, I'm like, "ya he's getting it now and it starting to make sense." Then he says something stupid or focuses his energy on the wrong thing and I'm back to losing even more faith in the government. I totally agree though, we should pick a date and stick to it. Trump is right too, the US is not made to handle a long term shut down.

As for 4/20 for a return to work date? Well, the weed shops will certainly be happy about that.

Our small, local grocery store is limiting access to 10 people at a time, which seems like a very sensible policy ... as long as people maintain social distancing while waiting. This would be a lot harder for larger stores like Costco. However, it seems to me that a whole range of disciplined measures to control ACTUAL exposure risk would make more sense than a blanket shutdown. If you're out walking, running or biking & maintaining a separation of at least 2 metres from other people, what is the likelihood that you will pick up or transmit the virus? Obviously, much more difficult to achieve separation in densely populated urban areas.
 
I'm very much in favor of this. However, I'm getting confused about what exactly people think is elderly. I went to the grocery store Sunday morning right when they opened a 7 am so I could avoid large crowds and actually find things to buy. They wouldn't let me in because I was under 50 and they were having "senior hours" until 11 am. Nevermind how completely asinine it is to have senior hours on a Sunday and not in the middle of the week, but really 50 years old? I could see limiting hours to ages 70 and up, but 50? That's not even close to being elderly.

we have senior (65 and up) hours everyday 8 - 10 am
 
My wife just gone to work now in WHS in a service station.. She has done 9 of the last 10 days due to other staff members being sent home for being in the risk group either too old or underlying health conditions like asthma or diabetes...

When she approached her boss about her options she was told it's either work or quit your job basically! She has not even been issued with a face mask or anything just a bottle of hand sanitizer and she just said on her way out the door if they don't shut shop today this will be her last shift there as they have put her at risk more than enough already 👎 I have been telling her for days to just walk out but she was hoping to be sent home with full pay eventually... Looks like that's not happening anytime soon! Sucks to be in the essential business whilst everyone else tucked up safe at home on full pay :(

Apparently WHS is essential because it sells painkillers and cough medicine and water and pens for writing letters :rolleyes:
 
Yeh... it is not safe for anyone to carry on as normal.

A lot of focus has been put on the case fatality rate (which now looks to be something like 0.6% for all cases) but not enough of a focus on the numbers of people requiring hospital care which, frankly, people are not going to get during the peak phase(s).

This article does a reasonable job at putting some numbers on hospitalisation per age group:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/23/21190033/coronavirus-covid-19-deaths-by-age

Summary: 0-9 - zero; 10-19 - 7%; 20-29 - 14%; 30-49 - 20%; 50-69 - 36%; 70+ - 55%.

article
The CDC covers a huge 20-44 age range in its data, but here’s what we know about that entire group: 14.3 percent hospitalized, 2 percent in the ICU, and 0.1 percent fatality rate.


Age 20-44 is 14.3% hospitalization with 2% ICU.

article
For people 45 to 54, the CDC reports 21.2 percent have been hospitalized, 5.4 percent were put in the ICU, and 0.5 percent have died.

45-54 is 21.2% hospitalization with 5.4% ICU

article
I’ll use the 75-and-older numbers from the CDC: For ages 75 to 84, hospitalizations (30.5 percent), ICU stays (10.5 percent), and deaths (4.3 percent) are already high, and the key metrics go up even higher for people 85 and older; 31.3 percent hospitalized, 6.3 percent in the ICU, 10.4 percent fatality rate.

ICU% climbing rapidly as we go up. The number of cases is much higher for the upper age brackets as well according to that article (based on Spain data). So the number of people actually in the ICU is much less for 20-44 than for 45-54.

For example, the article says according to Spain's data, 183 people hospitalized between 20-29. 1028 were between 30-49, and 5554 were over 50.

So, for example, if you could prevent people over 50 from getting it (which I know is a big ask), you're looking at only 18% of the hospitalization.

Right now, lock-down is the only reasonable option - and that should continue until well after the growth rate of new cases has dropped significantly. Even then, until a vaccine or drug treatments are readily available, restrictions (like worker rotation etc.) will need to be enforced in order to prevent further waves (and thus further lock-downs).

I think this comes at extreme cost.
 
Literally everyone - the text was telling people to stay at home, so it wouldn't make much sense to send it to shops. You also don't need a mobile phone to receive a text message (though it's extremely creepy if it arrives on your land line)

However, as far as I can make out, Government has no mass-text facility, so it has been asking the telecoms companies (which do) to send them. This may mean it was sent staggered (presumably texting every device at once requires a lot of network bandwidth) on different networks.

Nobody seems to know if the message hit every device or not either.

It reads:

In France, we received a message (text) from the government with a link to their website to see all safe or organisation stuff. So, around 67millions texts.

PS: I also received a mail from Toyota (Toyota car owner): "Toyota is with you"... thx, but not to close I hope :D
 
I wonder if this is why my personal and o2 phone lines basically can't call out at the moment?

I've had IP phone issues all morning. Unable to make calls. Fixed now.
i had to reset my O2 mobile today as it wasn't able to dial out. No text message on this or via my Virgin Mobile tablet SIM yet.

[EDIT]Virgin got the message at 5:27pm. Nothing on O2 so far.
 
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My wife just gone to work now in WHS in a service station.. She has done 9 of the last 10 days due to other staff members being sent home for being in the risk group either too old or underlying health conditions like asthma or diabetes...

When she approached her boss about her options she was told it's either work or quit your job basically! She has not even been issued with a face mask or anything just a bottle of hand sanitizer and she just said on her way out the door if they don't shut What is WHS?
 
What is WHS?
WHSmith is a newsagent / sweet shop / beer seller / Vending drinks and Stationary shop... unfortunately It's located on a Motorway service station.. they closed all the other shops on the site Greggs/ Costa/ Burger king etc.. but Whsmith and Marks and spencers and the petrol station must stay open no matter what :rolleyes:
 
India's lockdown for 21 days is astounding. And also points out the complete poor prioritization by Trump on getting everything back to normal.

Also, the site below (recommended by someone earlier mid-thread) and the JHU tracker are both now changing their tracking methods, making recovery numbers hard to follow, but also making any rash judgement to return to BAU a very bad idea:
https://covid19.nguy.dev/
 
And here I am driving to them and having them load cases into my trunk like a peasant.
I live in a sweet spot between the breweries in downtown, and some a bit more inland so with all of these breweries doing local deliveries now I at least always have access to something.

I mean, hey, I'm drinking alone but not like there's much else to do right now besides crack a few beers and play a few games. There's only so many times you can clean an apartment in a week.
 
So we should at least get the benefits of a "flattened curve" in the near term
Isn't that the main reason for the lock down?
Why April 20th? What if we haven't flattened the curve by then? Just go ahead anyway? What if the experts recommend another week? I hope some can return to work by then but if we're attempting to flatten the curve surely we can't pick an arbitrary date and stick to it without question.
 
Isn't that the main reason for the lock down?

Why April 20th? What if we haven't flattened the curve by then? Just go ahead anyway? What if the experts recommend another week? I hope some can return to work by then but if we're attempting to flatten the curve surely we can't pick an arbitrary date and stick to it without question.
We can't pick a date to "flatten the curve". We can only hope we get to that and we use that as a "provisional date".
 
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