Create Custom Driver Avatars skin color options, Or A variety of Drivers to choose from in GT 7
- Thread starter Haulin_Hebrew
- 142 comments
- 11,285 views
- 1,824
- California
Screw all that, I need to choose how many virtual children I have!!
- 1,063
- Georgia
- Netherlord
I need to be able to have twins or triplets as well that is absolute must. Oh they need to attend school to.........virtual GT Academy school?
- 35,492
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Proof? To who? You don't think PD are aware that there are black drivers in motorsports despite one of them just winning his second F1 title AND one of them a graduate of the GT Academy program (which Kaz has seen with his own eyes more then once)? I'm sorry but you don't display just one race of drivers and then claim you want "more than one ethnicity".
And again, the Drive club Comparison isn't at all logical because its not even close to being the same sort of game GT is.
- 23,800
- Philippines
As a half-Asian kid who grew up in New York, and then later, back in the Philippines, no, it's really not racist to notice that you aren't represented on TV, in movies (I'm still pissed at Starship Troopers), in literature or in video games. Which is what made Sesame Street so fascinating. Not only did they have black and white kids. They actually had kids that looked like me.
As an adult a motorsports fan, I'm less bothered by such things, because I'm aware that factors other than ethnicity affect your chances of getting in (and it's mostly money and the availability of feeder series and prepartion in your area). But in a racing game, where I am personally supposed to be behind the wheel, it would be nice to look at hands at the wheel that are the right color. Or the right gender (I'm lucky there. Girls, on the other hand, are not).
It's not a deal-breaker, but it would really be nice to have the option in-game, you know? Especially one that tries to immerse you to the point of having a personal garage, photo sessions and licensing.
As I've said... the amount of coding required, considering PD already does background people on track and in photo locations, and does custom-scanning for real-life drivers included, as well as photorealistic helmets, is rather trivial.
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I won't be crying in my coffee if it's not done, but I'd be happy if it is.
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To say, though, that no such problem exists, and that putative solutions are frivolous and not worth pursuing is not strictly correct. Motorsports is a dying field. (as discussed in viewership figure discussions for F1), and motoring itself is under attack. To shy away from any inclusive features that would lessen the separation between "us" and "them" (casual, disinterested players) and introduce a larger audience to Gran Turismo would be to miss a golden opportunity to increase the game's success.
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And, again, all with just a modest amount of coding required.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
No, up north we'd say "begum lad, whossthon'bout?".
Is it really? Interesting definition... how is noticing that there is only one white, male model available for players to use an act of racial hatred?
If we were all one then we'd all look and think the same. Fortunately some of us think differently. I don't see why in a modern game that already features natural human diversity there shouldn't be a simple choice of skin tones/genders for players to use. Like many things it's down to choice. That doesn't mean that we choose just your choice based on your apathy.
Trivial, incidentally.
i have to say i think it's pretty sad that you even have these thoughts. i never even noticed my drivers 'skin tone' or even that he has one because it's completely irrelevant.
That you do and that you place such peculiar value on it tells me just how much you think about race, which in my opinion is wrong. Until you can get over stuff lile this and accept a game is what it is then you will always be hung up about your race. That's not my fault or PD's fault.
Will you only be happy if every ethnicity is 100% represented in every dimension or do you just care about your own?
Kaz is Asian and cares not, so why get hung up on it unless you are so racially over aware it becomes a form of racism itself?
- 23,800
- Philippines
Did you miss the part where I said "I won't be crying in my coffee if it's not done, but I'd be happy if it is."?
I suppose everyone who's in a marginalized minority should actually just stop thinking?
This is not about black/brown/whatever pride. This is simply asking the game to recognize these differences exist so we can create drivatars/avatars that look like us.
Just how much I think about race? I'd insert a maniacal laugh here, but it's not necessary. Saying you notice the status quo is skewed and the representation of racial (and gender) demographics in media isn't reflective of reality says nothing of how much stock I put in "race." Being part German-Irish, part Japanese (with a possible smattering of Ainu, to boot), part Malay, part Chinese and possibly other unidentified ethnicities, I can't really be prickly about my own race. I don't have a specific race.
That you think that any observation of demographic inaccuracy is a crippling hang-up on my part says more about your own view of the issues.
Did you miss the part where I said "I won't be crying in my coffee if it's not done, but I'd be happy if it is," again?
A skin tone slider, a gender switch, and the ability to pick from several different faces for each would be enough. I'd add in a body build and height slider, but then, that's obviously much more work, and you'd have to model driver animations separately for each combination to ensure there's no clipping or other issues. Be nice if they tried, though... but that can come in time.
Did you miss the part where I said "I won't be crying in my coffee if it's not done, but I'd be happy if it is," again... again?
You don't have to be a hyper-feminist to notice that there aren't a lot of women in computer and games programming. Same goes for black coaches in futbol, or any other professional league sport.
You'd have to be a hyper-feminist/(ethnicist?) to DEMAND that extra women/ethnic minorities/etcetera be hired to these posts regardless of qualifications. Yes, it's a problem. But forcing inclusion doesn't solve it. The root of the problem is in opportunities given at the very basic levels. You have to create a pool of talent, in both cases, that is deep enough for people to want to hire them.
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This, however, is a video game. You already have non-white, non-male players playing it. And other ethnicities. We don't fret about it much because we've never been given a choice in this kind of game, before.
But now, increasingly, we're receiving the choice. And for the series to not move with the times is silly.
Modelling non-white, non-male characters is easy. They've done it already for background props. So why not extend that to drivers? Yes, they are currently in fireproof coveralls and full face helmets, but next-generation hardware will likely allow the return of open-faced helmets (and perhaps even the classic cap-and-goggles look from GT4). So why not?
I've already stated it's not a deal-breaker, but it's a good way to pick up some brownie points with casual players. A lot of people do online meet-ups, races and even photo-ops. How much more fun would it be if you could have your drivatars, which look vaguely like you, stand beside your cars for the photo-ops?
I think the peanut gallery would go... well... nuts.
So, there, I've answered why.
I've yet to hear a clear, concise reason why it would be a bad idea.
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Care to try and give one?
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
No..you're reasoning got lost in 16 paragraphs of demands and justifications about something that really shouldn't be cared about by anyone.
Your avatar wears a helmet and gloves i personally think you should just deal with it.
@TenEightyOne
how do you thinking having multi colours for avatar will stop this? If anything it would do the opposite unless you are one of these loud and proud activists who want to ensure that their differences are pointed out and pandered to?
Will you be leading the charge for transgender too or not bothered?
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- 23,800
- Philippines
In other words, "I can't think of a good answer, so you should just deal with it."
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TL/DR:
I don't give two whits about my race because I'm about as mulatto as you can get without having any African or Mongolian blood.
And it's not a race issue. It would simply be nice if the game allowed you to have a drivatar that looked like you, whatever your race, gender or body type. This would make it more attractive to casual players who like the social aspect of online playing, and would further deepen the GT experience... as Photo Travel and online meet-ups have already done.
But if they don't add it, I won't be too bothered.
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Again, care to give me a very convincing answer as to why it shouldn't be in GT7?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I think they should just drop a little coin and adopt EA's tech of creating an avatar with your PSN cam or from scratch. The most fun I had in Tiger Woods golf was not playing golf, it was having some brews and creating avatars with my buddies
. Some of the resemblences were uncanny. Would fit in well with a new livery editor.
. Some of the resemblences were uncanny. Would fit in well with a new livery editor.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
I think everyone should be gray. Nephilim aren't being represented anywhere, that would bring some balance. I also think some cars should be made only by indigent natives.
- 508
- United States
Good idea. Not sure how this can be done, though, since every avatar wears a helmet and a racing suit.....maybe with names? Hmmm.....
- 508
- United States
I understand that some people may think ethnic diversity in the Gran Turismo series Driver Avatars is unnecessary, and I bet those same people may think other races in the world are unnecessary, The Sony Entertainment Network allows world wide competition of Diverse Nations which is GREAT, we can compete and make new friends all over the world from our living rooms, requesting the ability to reflect that diversity is harmless, everyone should be proud of their race, and since ethnic diversity is real, put it in the game, why would anyone want to directly or indirectly suppress another gamer's request to reflect our skin tones, how is voicing that hurting anyone, it is A simple point that could be addressed without controversy, I don't understand why the word racism is even mentioned in this thread, Racism is exalting one Race above another, or claiming superiority, That is not the goal of this thread, This thread is a simple request that ethnic diversity is optional to be represented by every player, It is so sad that the true colors of some has been revealed in our GT community.
- 35,492
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
Wow, you are more ignorant then you accuse PD of. You automatically think anyone that's doesn't agree with you automatically thinks "Other races in the world are unnecessary"? How about you check your own ignorance at the door before you decide to broadsweep anyone that disagrees.
- 508
- United States
- 35,492
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
So because I disagree with having Multi-race avatars, I automatically "Oppose Ethnic Diversity". You don't know a damn thing about me so don't even come in here making such a horribly misinformed statement. And Journalism? What the hell does that have do with this topic? It seems now your just picking random things just to make subtle insults towards me seeing as this wasn't previously involved. In case you missed any of my posts (which you clearly have), I've given reasonable responses (as opposed to the overly dramatic response of one user) and if you actually knew me, I'm actually quite the opposite.
As for no one giving "any technical programming reason why this should not be done, only that it was wrong to suggest", they are simply questioning the point of having it on something that again a majority of the time you don't even see. You actually have to go out of your way just to see the face (quite literally the only thing that has any skin color) so again, what's the point if that is literally the only indication of any skin color?
As for "Why is it that when minorities request representation they are immediately suppressed", give me a damn break with that. For 🤬 sake, I am a black man arguing against this feature so in what way an I "The biggest antagonist" and "oppressing" Minorities? Pretty sure I'm not the only Minority arguing against this as well.
As for you accusing PD, its not what you say but how your basically shaping your argument and in doing so, showing ignorance yourself. And then this in the first post. "With Kaz Being Asian" So because he's Asian, he's automatically supposed to just make that happen? You don't even acknowledge him being Japanese, but you somehow want him to acknowledge other ethnicities? Or is this your little shot at him?
You've gone from suggesting something in a questionable fashion to suddenly sounding like you are leading some racial brigade against me all because I don't agree with you. If your going to take parting shots at accusing me of 'Opposing Minorities", actually have some proof and try not to show some ignorance of your own. Its not about me being right (which further proves that this is about people disagreeing with you and less about an actual point), I disagree not because of because I question its use in proportion of its visibility, which is why the Driveclub comparison is useless as the visability of those drivers skin colors are far more present.
Now if you can actually make a viable argument with all that reason cases listed instead of bringing down anyone that disagree with you, then lets actually talk. Be prepared to be disagreed with not because of anything racially motivated, but because not everyone has the same opinion as you.
As for no one giving "any technical programming reason why this should not be done, only that it was wrong to suggest", they are simply questioning the point of having it on something that again a majority of the time you don't even see. You actually have to go out of your way just to see the face (quite literally the only thing that has any skin color) so again, what's the point if that is literally the only indication of any skin color?
As for "Why is it that when minorities request representation they are immediately suppressed", give me a damn break with that. For 🤬 sake, I am a black man arguing against this feature so in what way an I "The biggest antagonist" and "oppressing" Minorities? Pretty sure I'm not the only Minority arguing against this as well.
As for you accusing PD, its not what you say but how your basically shaping your argument and in doing so, showing ignorance yourself. And then this in the first post. "With Kaz Being Asian" So because he's Asian, he's automatically supposed to just make that happen? You don't even acknowledge him being Japanese, but you somehow want him to acknowledge other ethnicities? Or is this your little shot at him?
You've gone from suggesting something in a questionable fashion to suddenly sounding like you are leading some racial brigade against me all because I don't agree with you. If your going to take parting shots at accusing me of 'Opposing Minorities", actually have some proof and try not to show some ignorance of your own. Its not about me being right (which further proves that this is about people disagreeing with you and less about an actual point), I disagree not because of because I question its use in proportion of its visibility, which is why the Driveclub comparison is useless as the visability of those drivers skin colors are far more present.
Now if you can actually make a viable argument with all that reason cases listed instead of bringing down anyone that disagree with you, then lets actually talk. Be prepared to be disagreed with not because of anything racially motivated, but because not everyone has the same opinion as you.
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- 508
- United States
Know your customer. they are selling to the biggest capitaReminds me of an issue that came out near a decade ago, where a Japanese consumer was shocked when his Japanese-made digital camera, with its automatic eyeblink-detection feature (a shutter mode that takes pictures after you blink, so you don't have pics with your eyes closed), wouldn't take his picture. At all.
Turns out the Japanese company that makes the camera programmed it with a facial detection algorithm that only works on Caucasians.
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Fancy that.
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Seems like a pretty easy palette swap, or, at worst, maybe a few weeks' work for some of the modellers, capturing and scanning generic faces. Won't even take up as much HDD space as a single car, to do several different ethnicities.
Journalism is gathering, processing, and dissemination of news and information related to the news to an audience which is what you were doing, but you falsely interpreted what I said, and tried to make it a personal slight against Kaz, and that is why I said journalism is not your strong suit. The comment that you responded to, and called me ignorant was actually address to zuku, who was making silly sarcastic remarks about having his kids and things outside of racing represented in the game, I did not reply to your comment RACECAR, This thread has received mostly positive feedback and likes, for some reason or another you made it your priority to make it your personal issue, so you choose not to have people of color represented in GT7 even though you are a black man, that is your prerogative, but don't expect me to share it, I owned every development of the Gran Turismo Series, from the PS1 to the PS3, and I will not buy a PS4 until GT7 is ready for sell, that is how much I am into this Driving simulator, how can we call it a simulator if it doesn't reflect real life? and in real life Caucasians are not the only group in Auto Sports, and in closing, to be straight with you, what other reason would you not want to have all ethnicity represented GT7 except you oppose them? and if I know nothing else about you, I know that about you because you said it yourself. Even though you're A black man, you disagree with Multi-Ethnicity in GT7, which is the theme of this thread.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
When you don't understand someone else's point of view, demonize them. "I bet those same people may think other races in the world are unnecessary". Well done.
To the point. Ethnic diversity is not "necessary" in GT. Cars and tracks are a necessity since this is a driving game after all, everything else is optional. On the other hand it would be a neat touch if PD went to the trouble of creating various kinds of ethnic based avatars but I'm not going to lose any sleep if they don't and neither will most game players. 70 million of them haven't had much concern over it so far. And I can see why this is something PD wouldn't want to address unless they have to. Once you start down this path, you acknowledge simply by addressing this, that it's something missing in the game and then you become open to the inevitable criticsm, "I'm [insert any ethnicity, skin colour, size, shape, hairstyle, age, sexual orientation, religion etc.] why is my avatar not in the game?" It's no longer good enough to just make a reasonable effort, you have to satisfy every single possible combination and permutation or someone, somewhere, will make some silly tweet or facebook post with a funny looking GT Avatar that'll go viral like,
"Oh look, PD made Black, Asian and Hispanic avatars, but what about us [insert ethnic group not covered by the included avatars]. I bet those people at #PolyphonyDigital think other races of the world are unnecessary"
See what I did there?
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Oh dear, are other people asking for something? Maybe some recognition that they exist? You should set up a permission mailbox for them, that way we all know who you've authorised to claim their identity and who you've denied the privilege to.
That's more like it, it would be good for people to have the choice. That's what it's all about
Yes, that's pretty obvious to any natural speaker of English. It's all in that sentence.
- 35,492
- Addison,Texas
- GTP_RACECAR
And yet, you only bring it up now just in response to me for..whatever reason. I'm not here to make some attempt at "Journalism", I'm responding (like I am any other topic of interest) so you could perhaps stop twisting my responses to suit your argument.
And yet,
Doesn't exactly read as you responding to only one person otherwise "Those same people" is an odd way of refering to only one person.
Again here you are making my responses (which have only been when someone responds to me) blown way beyond proportion. I'm not making this my "Personal issue", I again am questioning and responding to your responses.
I'm not trying to make you share it, the respond I made was to point out that I wasn't some zenophobic racist trying to hold down the minority but I'm instead simply the very minority you speak of that happens to disagree.
As for "how can we call it a simulator if it doesn't reflect real life?" Apparently, it specifically states itself as a "Driving Simulator" and that would indicate (to me at least) that its more about simulating real life driving and less about real life drivers. Granted we have now likenesses of real drivers, but I'm sure their inclusion has do more with the fact that they are known for what else (Apart from sponsor adverts)? Driving.
Overall, you have somehow managed to completely misunderstand my points as me somehow taking this personally when what I was questioning the entire time, as I already mentioned, was the point when this is again a game where skin color has a very small presence as opposed to a game like Drive club, where that is everywhere. Its gets no more simple then that, its question of how this serves any point when its visibility is tiny compared to other different games. Now yes I did call you ignorant as it seemed your response was like more or less a broadsweeping statement to anyone that isn't sharing your view and I also questioned the method in which you went about this (The posting of only black drivers for example as I feel "Ethnic Diversity" means more then just black drivers and it should be reflected as such), but I mostly just questioned this with the observations I made and nothing else.
You cannot be serious. Based solely on something for a game and nothing else, I'm "Opposed To Ethnic Diversity". You don't see what's wrong with this? Just because I'm disagreeing doesn't mean I'm on some warpath to oppress the Minority.
Seriously, I'm applying the logic I can gather and I get these kinds of responses...
- 508
- United States
Listen guys, It is not as if I am calling for A boycott of PD, I just simply stated that it is needed to reflect the real world, after all, this is A simulator, I have supported Gran Turismo since PS1 because I enjoy cars and racing, So if you agree that skin tone option of our driver Avatars to reflect all players ethnicity would be a step in that direction of reflecting the real world then like, but if you don't, then don't click the like button. I just hope you don't find it important because the avatar already looks like you.
- 40,897
I've always loved the hilariously naive "racial differences don't exist so stop talking about it" responses. The only one who is talking about how "needed" this option is is the OP with his increasingly attack dog attempts to claim that anyone who disagrees with it being "needed" are basically racist themselves. In essence, you're arguing against sentiments that don't really exist.
This is the real kicker, though:
You can't seriously be so blind as to think someone noticing "hey, the only driver type in this game is 'white male'" is a racist mental construct, can you? There exists a line between the OP's idiotic "the Gran Turismo series needs to have black people as a player option and if you question this unquestionable fact you're a racist" and realizing that "'black race car driver' isn't an option on even the basest level for the game that talks about avatar customization." There is no judgment inherent with the latter statement since it is simply pointing out a fact; and it does nothing but reflect poorly on your own stances when you try to automatically force an ulterior motive on someone pointing out something relating to race.
On that topic but in the amusingly opposite direction:
It's nice that you are capable of regurgitating definitions from the dictionary, but somewhat less so that you are incapable of relating those definitions with what other people are actually doing. RACECAR has performed no malicious misinterpretation of your "points". In fact, all he has done is point out that there really is only one interpretation of hilariously over the top statements like these:
Coming about as close as you can to calling people racist without violating the AUP is, shockingly, not an explanation for why equal representation is needed. niky has done a good job explaining why it would be nice to have, and he has also (along with others) pointed out that it would be relatively simple for PD to do. However, you have repeatedly failed to realize that "why not do it" is quite a different concept from "it needs to be done;" related to your inability to grasp that "I don't think it's important enough to do" isn't the same thing as "I only want white people in GT games."
It doesn't "need" to be done. We aren't talking about Test Drive Unlimited here. Gran Turismo is a racing game where about 99% of the time it is impossible to discern anything about your driver other than he is a human being. In fact, even the latest installment of the franchise whose developer has gone personalization crazy for the past two titles cannot remotely be called conspicuous in its racial limitations. It is not the game that will lead the charge for racial equality in the industry; and while the argument can certainly be made that every little bit helps towards that goal, perhaps still a more tangible example can be used to draw the lines in the sand over. And perhaps more importantly, skimming through this thread seems to suggest that all but one of the people who don't see much point in doing it or don't care are not in any way saying that they are actively against minorities being represented in videogames.
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Oh dear, are other people asking for something? Maybe some recognition that they exist? You should set up a permission mailbox for them, that way we all know who you've authorised to claim their identity and who you've denied the privilege to.
That's more like it, it would be good for people to have the choice. That's what it's all about
Yes, that's pretty obvious to any natural speaker of English. It's all in that sentence.
Hm we need to look past skin colour. Until you can do that you'll never be happy and always feel marginalised. But only because you think in those terms.
Choice in gran turismo is about choice of cars and tracks. Not brown pride.
Maybe you want to be this guy i dunno
- 40,897
Interestingly enough, as a middle class white male living in a country almost predisposed to favor middle class white males above all others, I don't feel marginalized in the slightest.
Yet I still can see that "just ignore skin color because it doesn't matter" isn't really the profound talking point about race relations you keep portraying it as so much as "I don't actually know anything about racial inequality so here's a zinger." It's actually amusingly similar to all of those influential white dudes who concocted the idea that because Obama was elected president, America is now racism free.
Yet I still can see that "just ignore skin color because it doesn't matter" isn't really the profound talking point about race relations you keep portraying it as so much as "I don't actually know anything about racial inequality so here's a zinger." It's actually amusingly similar to all of those influential white dudes who concocted the idea that because Obama was elected president, America is now racism free.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I am serious. I didn't base your opposition to ethnic diversity on anything outside this thread, I'm not suggesting you're Moseley or that you have some hate agenda. What you actually said, here, in the context of this thread was;
RACECAR
Which is clearly self-contradiactory in the context of this thread. You are opposing ethnic diversity in this context.
So I grew up as a middle class white kid while my sister grew up as a middle class black kid. Which one of us do you think has been the victim of unconscious (or very conscious) racism over the years? It wasn't me, to give you a clue.
I agree that "we need to look past skin colour" is a sensible concept in the search for equality but it shouldn't be applied to mean that lack of equality isn't challenged because we're looking right past that too. After all, we're all treated and represented equally in media and society, right? Dead wrong.
What the OP has suggested is something so slight and simple (yet so widely and easily inclusive) that it's a tiny tiny thing in the scheme of Gran Turismo. A player would be able to choose an avatar that represents themselves (or any other character they choose), that's all. The opposition to it has been astonishing, in my opinion.
In the case of multi-toned avatars being available, what skin tone would you choose?
- 508
- United States
View attachment 265981 Does this has to be my only option for an open face Helmet, or NASCAR Suit, I am A black man with brown eyes, I would like to see my avatar represent me to the world, would it destroy the Gran Turismo Series to offer that options????, and to say Gran Turismo is only about Cars and Tracks is A Fat Lie! Has anyone heard of Driver & Constructors Championships? Cars don't build themselves or drive themselves, Cars and Tracks don't pay for PS4's and Thrustmasters T300 RS's, the customers do, and we come in a variety of skin tones, I'm not saying ethnic Diversity should be in the pit crew, and that should be reflected, even though it is present, but to offer one Avatar to the whole world is unintelligent, I think it would be just as wrong to pick Lewis Hamilton as the only Avatar for the whole world, even though he is my favorite driver, PD can offer A few different avatars of drivers around the world of different nationalities, and the player can pick our favorite Driver as our avatar if it be too much to customize, I would like to add my features just as we pick our race suits, in which I was happy when that was implemented into the series, who didn't appreciate that addition??? PD Gran Turismo offers over 1000 cars and and A combination of Race suits, and Helmets and only One Driver. Does that not need improving? how many opposers of this thread would like to go back to one race suit for all drivers, since it is allegedly only about Cars and Tracks?
Even with a closed face helmet you can tell the driver is Caucasian, not that it is anything wrong with that, but A lot of Gran Turismo players would like their avatar to resemble them which would be the next step in Simulation Racing, with more premium cars.
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