Creation vs. Evolution

[Touring Mars]

Originally posted as: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77779

I never did like the theory of evolution (even before I became a christian at age 18) It just never pieced together. My question is, if someone does not like the theory of evolution, is there an alternative outside of creationism for those who choose not to accept it as truth?

In a word, no. There are no competing theories that offer a better explanation for the origin and genetic relatedness of species than the Theory of Evolution (or the Theory of Common Descent). Intelligent Design theory (the modern term for the Creationist movement) is widely rejected by the scientific community, and little (if any) reference to it is ever made in any serious scientific journals.

If someone, like yourself, doesn't like the theory of evolution OR the theory of Intelligent Design, you should really ask yourself why you don't... (as Zardoz already did in your thread) Although much of the evidence for evolution is in the form of scientific publications (and can sometimes be horribly convoluted, dense and difficult to comprehend) even so, the evidence is there to be studied... I would say that only after you have studied and understood that evidence should you decide whether you believe it or not.... similarly, there are plenty of books on (or related to) Intelligent Design theory - a particularly prominent book supporting ID theory is 'Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution' by Michael Behe - quite an interesting read, although it is hugely flawed. If you read that, then you should also read 'God, The Devil and Darwin: A Critique of Intelligent Design Theory' by Niall Shanks - where ID theory is explained, critically assessed, and debunked very effectively, including an excellent refutation of Michael Behe's 'scientific' approach that has helped to make ID theory so popular in recent years.

Creationist group Answers In Genesis (AiG) say

" Even those Christians who believe in millions of years of history, regardless if they don't believe in the mechanism of evolution as such, are actually helping to undermine the authority of the Word of God and replace it with a foundation that teaches people that man by himself can determine truth."

...so even outwith the creation/evolution debate, religious fundamentalism goes alot further than you may give them credit for... What their claims really add up to is simply this - that nothing other than the Bible is true.... everything - every fact, every piece of history, every scientific observation - means precisely zero - the Bible is the only truth... but the dilemma arises in the inquisitive Christian mind when these claims so plainly jar with reality...

 

[ledhed]

Thankfully its a minority Christian position that " nothing but the Bible is true " . Lately there is even a movement to have all " true Christians " move to South Carolina so they can live " like Christians " under " Christian laws "....I guess they will call their party the " Un Talibans " ..maybe just Republicans...but fundementalist just the same ....
Back to the ARK ..how do we account for all the races of humans ??? After all I see no mention of African , Indian , asian etc. as having been part of the ark drivers family......in the old days it was just this seeming exclusion from the bible that was used to justify...Ohh just slavery ..colonialism.. murder torture small pox blankets..etc.... just a bunch of heathens ..who needs them ?

 

[Delirious]

Shem Ham Japheth, Noah's 3 sons...one for caucasian, one semi-toned skin (oriental as well) and one dark skinned (african american)

And everything inbetween with inter-racial marriages

 

[Famine]

Did Noah demand a DNA check? Because having a white son, a black son and an "oriental" son would imply that Noah's wife was a bit of a bike.

 

[Max_DC]

Did Noah demand a DNA check? Because having a white son, a black son and an "oriental" son would imply that Noah's wife was a bit of a bike.

*reputation points*

 

[Small_Fryz]

When 900 years old you reach, Bored with noah you will be.

 

[Keef]

Interracial marriages cause mutations in the child's DNA. Say a black guy boinks a white chick and they have a mexican baby (haha, :sigh: ). No, actually the kid would be Wack. That's evolution at work. It might not be the best sort of evolution, but that's what it is.

 

[Zardoz]

Doonesbury, March 5, 2006:

 

[Keef]

I don't, actually.

 

[GT4_Rule]

we evolved!!

there's different shapes of ammonites over millions of years - what do you say about that?

 

[Keef]

I had an idea in mind, but GT4_Rule competely erased it.

 

[GT4_Rule]

I had an idea in mind, but GT4_Rule competely erased it.

Oh...sorry.

 

[Kylehnat]

Doonesbury usually leaves me in stitches. However, sometimes it's just too much work to figure out

 

[Small_Fryz]

The big thing with the flood and noah's ark is why many many cultures never made any reference to it all.

Chinese, Japanese, Egyptians etc etc.

Why is this so?

 

[GT4_Rule]

Hmmm....

Come to think of it, I never learned about Noah's Ark in Japan...I only knew what the heck that was when I learned a bit about Bible.

Maybe, just maybe, it didn't happen.....because if it did then where did all those water come from, and then disappeared into?

 

[Small_Fryz]

Hmmm....

Come to think of it, I never learned about Noah's Ark in Japan...I only knew what the heck that was when I learned a bit about Bible.

Maybe, just maybe, it didn't happen.....because if it did then where did all those water come from, and then disappeared into?

That reason alone isnt good enough to debunk it, Creationist just say one word God
If only it was really that easy.

Is it just me or does it seem like evolution is the only one who needs to provide proof to be belived (its just lucky we have it), creation has no proof and provides none, all they have to do is say God and then it is waviered from having to provide any proof.

Im really a alien from another planet, I wont prove it, but i belive it 100% so it must be true.

 

[GT4_Rule]

That reason alone isnt good enough to debunk it, Creationist just say one word God
If only it was really that easy.

Is it just me or does it seem like evolution is the only one who needs to provide proof to be belived (its just lucky we have it), creation has no proof and provides none, all they have to do is say God and then it is waviered from having to provide any proof.

Im really a alien from another planet, I wont prove it, but i belive it 100% so it must be true.

You're right there, creationists don't even need a proof. Just hold up the bible, go to the first book, first verse and read it aloud. Or just say GOD like you suggested and they're fine. Strange.

 

[a6m5]

Hmmm....

Come to think of it, I never learned about Noah's Ark in Japan...I only knew what the heck that was when I learned a bit about Bible.

Are you Japanese? Noah no hakobune is pretty widely known story in Japan. It's fairy tale stuff to most people though, except to Christians, of course. My current belief is in Christian God, but it's kind of on/off then on again kind of thing. I won't be going to heaven, according to the Bible, that's for certain.

Maybe, just maybe, it didn't happen.....because if it did then where did all those water come from, and then disappeared into?

If you are God, I think it's do-able. Considering how much more water we have on this planet in form of ice, I'm sure you can cover a lot more land surfaces with water, if you could somehow melt those ice.

Is it just me or does it seem like evolution is the only one who needs to provide proof to be belived (its just lucky we have it), creation has no proof and provides none, all they have to do is say God and then it is waviered from having to provide any proof.

It's more like the Evolution theory is based on the proof(s).

Im really a alien from another planet, I wont prove it, but i belive it 100% so it must be true.

If you have witnesses to your testimony, then it's close I supose.

 

[GT4_Rule]

Are you Japanese? Noah no hakobune is pretty widely known story in Japan. It's fairy tale stuff to most people though, except to Christians, of course. My current belief is in Christian God, but it's kind of on/off then on again kind of thing. I won't be going to heaven, according to the Bible, that's for certain.

hahaha

yeah I am Japanese (raised there) although by blood I'm Chinese because my parents are from China.

I figure its a widely known story, but its a fairy tale (as you suggested) and they don't tell us much about it; well knowing that I went to public school, they probably won't teach us religious stuff anyway...

 

[a6m5]

hahaha

yeah I am Japanese (raised there) although by blood I'm Chinese because my parents are from China.

Cool. Sounds very interesting.

I figure its a widely known story, but its a fairy tale (as you suggested) and they don't tell us much about it; well knowing that I went to public school, they probably won't teach us religious stuff anyway...

Yeah, it's not something that's taught in public or most private schools.

 

[Touring Mars]

Doonesbury, March 5, 2006

Excellent find 👍 - "Teach The Controversy" - the chief slogan of the ID movement - but why spend half the time in science class teaching non-scientific hokum? By all means mention it, but 'teach' it? You wouldn't teach that 2+2=4, only to spend the same amount of time teaching that 'actually, 2+2 may not equal 4, depending on your religious beliefs'... so why bother?!

 

[TheCracker]

Jesus specifically talks about all the commandments except 1, the sabbath. Why, because he is the sabbath. He is the rest, the Prince of peace.

Actually, i think you'll find that essentially, Ozzy is the Sabbath.

....and it's Prince of Darkness not prince of peace

 

[kennythebomb]

Actually, i think you'll find that essentially, Ozzy is the Sabbath.

....and it's Prince of Darkness not prince of peace

 

[niky]

Excellent find 👍 - "Teach The Controversy" - the chief slogan of the ID movement - but why spend half the time in science class teaching non-scientific hokum? By all means mention it, but 'teach' it? You wouldn't teach that 2+2=4, only to spend the same amount of time teaching that 'actually, 2+2 may not equal 4, depending on your religious beliefs'... so why bother?!

Actually, given alternate conditions, 2+2=5, according to Stephen Hawking...

 

[Kylehnat]

So my kindergarten teacher was wrong, and I was right! Oh, she'll hear about this!!

 

[Small_Fryz]

my business teacher told me 2+2=5, then called it synergy

Why does 2+2=4? why not 5?

 

[Swift]

Actually, i think you'll find that essentially, Ozzy is the Sabbath.

....and it's Prince of Darkness not prince of peace

That was incredibly weak. Sarcastic or not.

 

[Kylehnat]

That was incredibly weak. Sarcastic or not.

I agree. Ozzy wasn't the only thing that made Black Sabbath great.

 

[Keef]

He ate a bat! Jesus could never bring himself to do that. What a puss.

And Stephen Hawking is too smart for his own good. His knowledge has now made him mentally retarded, not just physically. 2+2 always equals four (4). Interest doesn't happen in nature, it's called "conservation of matter/energy/the like." Business people were just too dumb to become a mathematician, and they're all democrats, and that's why they had to develop their own "math".

2+2=4. We have names for certain amounts. We made these names, and we can't change them, because if we did I'd declare myself rich and everyone else would to and then all the nuclear countries in the world would simultaniously fire their missiles at their favorite target, no matter how many they have.

: (two dots, we called that amount two, don't argue with it)+ : (two more dots)= :: (four dots, we called that amount four, don't argue with that either.)

 

[Famine]

And Stephen Hawking is too smart for his own good. His knowledge has now made him mentally retarded, not just physically. 2+2 always equals four (4).

Depends on your point of view. I can prove to you right now that 2+2=11. Or 10.