Creation vs. Evolution

[Joey D]

Umm science books, it's called the principle of biogenesis.

Life started on this planet by the combination of proteins in the correct order. I'm sure one of our science whizzes can make it sound a bit more intelligent then I can though.

There is this as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primordial_sea

 

[CraftyLandShark]

If you guys are talking about the Old Testament that does not apply to all Christians or Jews. I am a Roman Catholic and I follow Jesus' teachings of loving one another and accepting one another, not the Old Testament where the penalty for even minor infractions was death, like said earlier.

Granted. We're responding to a particular stated viewpoint that expressely relied on Old Testament citations for support.

From a Christian perspective, the New Testament represents God's new covenant with man, and in most thoughtful denominations, it supercedes both the law structures, and in some cases the literal interpretation of, the Old Testament.

 

[Sage]

I really don’t understand that. How can you just go “Oh, let’s drop all the nasty-sounding stuff”?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I really don’t understand that. How can you just go “Oh, let’s drop all the nasty-sounding stuff”?

Because some of that "nasty" stuff was made up my humans, not God. It's important to tell the whole story. Horror movies don't leave out the gory bits.

 

[Formula1Driver]

I didn't make the rules, Jesus did (for me atleast), it something that I was brought up around but I choose to believe it now, the Old Testament is really misleading, God does not want people to kill each other or hurt each other, he wants us to be loving to each other. The Golden Rule, when God's son, Jesus, came to Earth he was reteaching what seemed to get out of hand, like stoning people and other things like that.

People were killing others for breaking the 10 Commandments and other rules and thought that was what God wanted but God does not want us to kill or hurt each other.

 

[Sage]

I watched a DVD just the other night coincidentally, talking about creation vs evolution (a small part of it), and science itself says that life can only be created by life.

“Science itself”? No respectable scientist says that. Seriously. Richard Dawkins outlines a very simple explanation (that follows the basic rules of chemistry) for how life originated in his book The Selfish Gene. I urge you to pick it up.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Because some of that "nasty" stuff was made up my humans, not God. It's important to tell the whole story. Horror movies don't leave out the gory bits.

Then if some of that 'nasty stuff', which is in the text of the bible can be so cavalierly dropped, how can you argue the infallability of the bible as the means to support everything it claims? That seems to be the crux of your viewpoint.

 

[sn00pie]

What I don't understand is how in the same breath of words nd 4 holden spd likes to discredit science, then use an argument such as "science itself says so" to (try and) prove a point.

 

[Formula1Driver]

We dont just 'drop' the 'nasty stuff', if you are Christian you follow the New Testament but there are also relavent teachings in the Old Testament, I have yet to go to Church and here a reading from the Old Testament.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Then if some of that 'nasty stuff', which is in the text of the bible can be so cavalierly dropped, how can you argue the infallability of the bible as the means to support everything it claims? That seems to be the crux of your viewpoint.

That's why, right here. It's telling what happened, not what is.

Because some of that "nasty" stuff was made up my humans, not God. It's important to tell the whole story. Horror movies don't leave out the gory bits.

 

[Sage]

We dont just 'drop' the 'nasty stuff', if you are Christian you follow the New Testament but there are also relavent teachings in the Old Testament, I have yet to go to Church and here a reading from the Old Testament.

That doesn’t answer the question.

Because some of that "nasty" stuff was made up my humans, not God. It's important to tell the whole story. Horror movies don't leave out the gory bits.

That answers the question a little better, but how do you know what to drop? Who decided? If the entire Bible is not the infallible word of God, how do you know that any of it is?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

What I don't understand is how in the same breath of words nd 4 holden spd likes to discredit science, then use an argument such as "science itself says so" to (try and) prove a point.

To show that science disapproves science, that's how stupid evolutionism is.

That doesn’t answer the question.

Yes it does.

 

[sn00pie]

We dont just 'drop' the 'nasty stuff', if you are Christian you follow the New Testament but there are also relavent teachings in the Old Testament, I have yet to go to Church and here a reading from the Old Testament.

If it weren't for your Christian indoctr upbringing, the bible, and your church teachings, would you have become a chainsaw-weilding, raping, stealing, pillaging maniac?

Do you think Christianity, solely, has formed your sense of morality and empathy?

 

[Sage]

To show that science disapproves science, that's how stupid evolutionism is.

*Sigh*

You really really really really need to look back through these pages or somehow become a little more well-read on how science works. I can tell in that one sentence that you fundamentally do not understand the basis of science or the scientific method itself.

 

[Formula1Driver]

My point is that not everything bad is just dropped, the Old Testament was written when people routinely killed other people for minor things, Jesus then came and taught against killing and wrongdoing saying that it is not the way God wants you to live your life.

We include the Old Testament in the Bible because important things can be learned from it, its not all like "Sinners should be Killed!" kind of teachings, there is useful information in it, the people at the time were stuck in a paradigm that they thought that anyone who disobeyed God should die.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Yes it does.

It really doesn't. Sage reframed my question more clearly. How, if you can drop SOME bits of the bible because you say humans put them in, can you depend on any of the rest of it to be the one true word of god? It just doesn't hold water.

Formula1Driver's outlook makes a BIT more sense. Although I don't agree with it, I can understand how he can see things that way. The Old Testament, really, is the foundation of Judaism, not Christianity. It's included in Christianity for didactic purposes, not to lay out a code of morals.

 

[sn00pie]

To show that science disapproves science, that's how stupid evolutionism is.

Nuh-huh. You're taking little tiny bits and pieces of scientific research, twisting and applying them to whatever creationist aspect you need verified.

It is mere abuse. You are a saboteur of grounded scientific values.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

If it weren't for your Christian indoctr upbringing, the bible, and your church teachings, would you have become a chainsaw-weilding, raping, stealing, pillaging maniac?

Do you think Christianity, solely, has formed your sense of morality and empathy?

Yes actually, numerous times I have been tempted to do wrong things that I didn't because I'm a Christian. You probably do things you don't even realise are wrong as a result.

Added bit- This argument hasn't been solved from millenia on end, why are we (the people of a site based on a racing game) going to solve it now?

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Because we all have strong opinions on an issue that is fundamental to our existence as a species.

It's the most important thing anyone could discuss.

 

[Formula1Driver]

Do you think Christianity, solely, has formed your sense of morality and empathy?

In a sense yes because if I am Religious and believe what is written in the New Testament, nowhere does it say that sinners should be stoned or anything like that, it teaches to be good to others. Much like in society where you are taught to be good to others and do the right thing. To me, everything that the Bible teaches about morality is the same that society teaches me.

 

[Perfect Balance]

(the people of a site based on a racing game)

Famine is a bioengineer ( I think. Something bio related anyways) and Danoff works for NASA. That's all that I KNOW, but I'm sure there's other people like this.


EDIT: Being a racing game based site doesn't limit the kind of people that can come here.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

In a sense yes because if I am Religious and believe what is written in the New Testament, nowhere does it say that sinners should be stoned or anything like that, it teaches to be good to others. Much like in society where you are taught to be good to others and do the right thing. To me, everything that the Bible teaches about morality is the same that society teaches me.

Then if you derive the same code of values from society, of what value is the Bible, beyond being a nifty storybook?

 

[Formula1Driver]

The Bible teaches more than just moral values, it also teaches life lessons among other things, also I believe the Bible has been around a bit longer than modern society.

 

[Perfect Balance]

There's also the "God" part of it.....

 

[Formula1Driver]

You do not need to point that out to me, I was just pointing out the importance of the Bible to me and that it isn't just some big 'nifty storybook' and how it is responsible for my moral values.

 

[Sage]

I’m confused now, because it seems like this discussion belongs in the Homosexuality thread…

 

[sn00pie]

To me, everything that the Bible teaches about morality is the same that society teaches me.

That's all I wanted to hear. 👍

I’m confused now, because it seems like this discussion belongs in the Homosexuality thread…

Speaking of which! I think my dog might be gay.

 

[Formula1Driver]

I don't mind talking about this, the only reason I chimed in was because people were using quotes from the Old Testament and other things and I thought I'd give my two cents.

sage: So you wanted to hear that I do get my moral values from the Bible and that the Bible and Christianity directly infuences society?

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

That doesn’t answer the question.


That answers the question a little better, but how do you know what to drop? Who decided? If the entire Bible is not the infallible word of God, how do you know that any of it is?

Because you can read which parts are made up by humans, and which parts God himself has instructed us on.

*Sigh*

You really really really really need to look back through these pages or somehow become a little more well-read on how science works. I can tell in that one sentence that you fundamentally do not understand the basis of science or the scientific method itself.

Mate, I aced chemistry, physics and biology all through school. Most science is seemingly theories built on theories and the views change over time as new evidence comes to light.

Because we all have strong opinions on an issue that is fundamental to our existence as a species.

It's the most important thing anyone could discuss.

That's true, but here we are making ourselves dislike each other over something that won't be solved until (if you are a Christian you will believe judgement day is coming) (if you are a heathen you will possibly believe one of a number of things will happen, the sun will die out, we will die out as a species etc.). I think I might just drop out of this argument because my view won't change, and I'm not personally educated enough to change yours, nor can I bring the evidence I have to this site regarding proof. You know, movies, DVDs, books etc. If anyone ever feels like it look for a video series titled "Amazing Discoveries". It's a group of Christian archeaologists making finds proving events from the Bible actually happened.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I was only being pithy calling it a 'nifty storybook' - by that I mean just what you said - a source of life lessons (which really in the end is just an abstracted formulation of a moral concept). My point is that you can get the same thing from Aesop's Fables, assuming you don't feel a need for the presence of a 'God', as Perfect Balance mentioned.