Creation vs. Evolution
- Thread starter ledhed
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- 3,802
That it? That's your come back? Your come back consists of "Kev, you don't know everything". Well wow, thank you captain obvious.
Well swift, your obviously a GENI-ARSE on this subject too. The fact that you mock my knowledge on the subject just makes it even funnier. We have over a century worth of proof you lot just ignore, simply because it doesn't fit in to your frankly silly theories. See Swift, MOUNTAIN of evidence, versus sweet FA. Creationists are good at finding things to go against Evolution, but never seem to find anything to back Creationism up.
btw, why do whales have hip bones in their flesh if they don't walk? Please, apply you Creationist fountain of knowledge to that question, I sit here, ready for a no doubt, entertaining read.
I also have another question, after the flood, how would all the animals survive? I mean, the carnivores would need food (not much there), and most of the plant life would be very dead...so the herbivores would die very fast before they have a chance to inbreed with each other.
- 10,116
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- swift-bass
code_kev
Code Kev, you ride the coattails of the people putting up the info in here. You haven't done the research and most likely just barely understand it. So don't play like you're MR Wizard when it comes to evolutionary theory.
As far as your question about Whales having hip bones. Oh wait, just like the missing link, I DON'T KNOW. Now, does that make my claims less credible? Because the evolutionary theory has a whole lot of I don't knows in it.
Also, you don't know jack about the Ark. There was more then 2 of every animal on the Ark. But you wouldn't know that because you didn't read it. It's not like a white paper of science, the Bible is availible free online right now.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen007.html#9
Genesis 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that [are] not clean by two, the male and his female.
Code Kev, It's not your opinion that is the issue, it's your incredibly arrogant attitude. I know that I'm firm in my beliefs, but I've never called you names or anything like that. You, more then once have. So, yeah. That's what I think of your particular argument.
- 2,063
Well, despite the fact that I withdrew from this because it was just too fractious, it is so interesting that it's drawn me back 
.
I just have a couple of facts that relate to the 'population' discourse above.
Firstly, geneticists (not Famine tho' as far as I know
) have proven beyond reasonable doubt that all of humanity came from one pair. By 'reasonable doubt' I mean that it was considered solid enough science to be on "Horizon" (a benchmark documentary series over here). If I recall correctly, they also had a rough timeline for this based on assumptions of how many years a 'generation' covers but I don't remember their conclusions on that.
Given that this is defintiely Famine's field, I'm sure he can correct, debunk or confirm this if he sees it. I have to say that altho' I understand the logic of it all strating from one pair, I don't clearly see how the lack of genetic diversity is overcome (an odd fact that sticks in my head is that you need 500 people as a population to prevent the appearance of genetic diseases due to inbreeding).
Secondly, the population growth of humanity has been far from steady. On at least one positively documented occaision, natural disasters reduced the global population to about ten thousand. When you consider the vast area of the Earth, it's a wonder we made it at all with being so thinly spread.
On a related point, the reason for the explosion in population numbers in recent centuries is easy - the development of modern medicine and nutrition. Once you cut the rate of infant mortality so that nearly everyone survives long enough to breed, then the population balloons exponentially (rather than incrementally as was the case throughout previous recorded human history).
On an unrelated and somewhat lighter point, love the new avatar, PS.
.I just have a couple of facts that relate to the 'population' discourse above.
Firstly, geneticists (not Famine tho' as far as I know
) have proven beyond reasonable doubt that all of humanity came from one pair. By 'reasonable doubt' I mean that it was considered solid enough science to be on "Horizon" (a benchmark documentary series over here). If I recall correctly, they also had a rough timeline for this based on assumptions of how many years a 'generation' covers but I don't remember their conclusions on that. Given that this is defintiely Famine's field, I'm sure he can correct, debunk or confirm this if he sees it. I have to say that altho' I understand the logic of it all strating from one pair, I don't clearly see how the lack of genetic diversity is overcome (an odd fact that sticks in my head is that you need 500 people as a population to prevent the appearance of genetic diseases due to inbreeding).
Secondly, the population growth of humanity has been far from steady. On at least one positively documented occaision, natural disasters reduced the global population to about ten thousand. When you consider the vast area of the Earth, it's a wonder we made it at all with being so thinly spread.
On a related point, the reason for the explosion in population numbers in recent centuries is easy - the development of modern medicine and nutrition. Once you cut the rate of infant mortality so that nearly everyone survives long enough to breed, then the population balloons exponentially (rather than incrementally as was the case throughout previous recorded human history).
On an unrelated and somewhat lighter point, love the new avatar, PS
.
- 3,802
Yes Swift, I'm riding the coat tails of real scientists, thinkers, and people who actually know what they are saying. If your happy to ride the coattails of people who make crap like the AnsweringGenesis Dinosaur museum, by my guest. I also never clamined to be an uber authority on Evolution, unlike you, I can accept that there are gaps in my knowledge.
Yes. A God would never make silly mistakes like that: "GAH DAMN wheres the undo button, Oh well, Whales are gonna have to have hipbones"
OH wow Swift, you quoted the Bible, I was wondering how long THAT was gonna take. "Look kev, Evolution and the evil satanic scientists types who support it may have a mountain of evidence, but I, I have my Bible quote to back up my silly theories of magic boats". This is what fundies allways do, get a silly quote from the Bible as if it's some scientific document, and wave it about as if it's the answer. If you bother to look back a few pages, you'l see that I did actually read the passage. Oh and don't even bother with the whole *in a whiney voice* "you just don't have an open mind like me".
I'm arrogant? ARF! Your the one who ignores scientific evidence just because it doesn't fit in to what you want to be true, now THAT is arrogant.
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- GTP_Duke
Sukerkin: My understanding is not the same as yours concerning genetic history. I do know that nearly all people of Western descent trace back to an individual woman who lived in Europe about 60,000 years ago. However, a very large number of people of Asian descent do not share this particular genetic marker.
- 2,063
Duke
Ah, maybe I'm misremembering what I saw then. It was a few years (and many bottles of wine) in the past. I'll try and research it up and get back to you. I had thought that humanity had a common DNA and that 'racial' differences had arisen from many generations of environmentally shaped (climate, diet, geography, mutations) breeding.
It's still interesting tho', to think, that we're all related to each other ('Westerners' only if Duke's memory serves him better than mine).
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Duke
Much work is being done on this now. There are many projects underway to trace genetic markers. This is one of them:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0413_050413_genographic.html
https://www5.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/
Ten years from now we'll have a much better handle on our true origins.
- 10,116
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- swift-bass
sicbeing
Thanks, I know we don't agee on everything. But it's nice to see you keeping a level head. I appreciate it.
code_kev
Let me get this straight, you ask me how did something happen that is described in the bible, I quote it to you and that's not proof. Wow, ok. Well, here's the thing. You probably think that I'm some fool that just says whatever my Pastor tells me and believes it without doing my own studying of the bible. Nope, sorry.
LOL, I DENOUNCED the answers in genesis site for their obvious misrepresentation of the biblical account of creation. But you didn't see that because you just want me to be the stereotypical "fundie".
BTW, if you were really a student of the theory, then you would study it yourself and not just point to what Famine, Duke and others have said.
You don't believe in God or understand anything about him. So how can you just state that as being a truth or fact?
That's your opinion and your entitled to it. But at least there are people, that believe the same thing you do, with enough maturity not to stereotype and name call people that disagree with them.
Also, when did I EVER say science or scientists were evil?
- 4,459
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- GTP_Grand_Prix
Just out of curiousity Swift and Pako, do you agree that domesticated animals evolved in the past 10,000 years? By this I refer to German Shepherds, Border Collies, Boxers, Greyhounds and every other 'breed' of dog and cat in existence. Did Beagles evolve from the common wolf after hundreds of years of humans using selective breeding? Or were Beagles always Beagles from the start of time?
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- swift-bass
sicbeing
Everything was on the ark that didn't have a home in the water.
We've had domesticated animals since the beginning of recorded history. You're talking mainly about dogs. These are talked about a lot in the Bible. While not household pets, they weren't small wolves either.
But to answer your question, I don't think that evolution could happen like that in just 10,000 years judging by what all the proponents of the theory are saying.
Also, I'm not saying that evolution in a sense doesn't happen. I'm saying it's NOT the origin of species.
- 4,459
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- GTP_Grand_Prix
@ Swift: Well, at least you're consistent.
- 3,802
Nope. That's not proof. The people who wrote the Bible were not there, so could have just made it all up.
Swift, I want to make one thing very clear. Regardless of what Duke, Famine etc said, my opinion would be exactly the same, why? Because I was aware of this stuff before this thread was created (thought obviously I have read stuff that I was unaware of). I have been in these discussions before with Creationist friends of mine, and read up on it then.
But why would a God give a whale hipbones Swift? Seems abit daft. Or did God put this hip bones in to test our faith?
First, thank you, yes I am entitled to an opinion. Name calling? You are a fundie, there's no getting about this. You ignore logic, science, and evidence to back up a frankly silly theories just because it's in your Holy Book. Your so obsessed with disproving Evolution, that you can't actually find a scrap of real evidence to back up what you believe.
The scientists were evil bit was said in sarcasm.
You also seem to be avoiding the question of how did all the animals live after the flood, as expected. You know as well as I do, that they would have died out.
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- swift-bass
code_kev
I'm done talking to you here. If you're not mature enough rise above sterotyping and call people names then I really have nothing more to say to you. Proof or no proof, right or wrong.
Don't expect anymore replies from me in this thread to any of your questions.
- 3,802
Especially awkward questions like "How did the animals survive after the flood".
Swift if you consider yourself to be a logical, astute thinker with a degree of intellectual thinking applied to your life, please show me the evidence of this AWESOME flood that took place, such a massive event must have had huge effects on ecosystems, landscapes etc.... where is this evidence? What? You dont have any? Because it doesnt exist... oh... yes i forgot.... the bible told you it was true... arent you an open minded logical fellow.
Come on Swift, don't leave now, this is getting fun. Are your beliefs so weak, that they can't even stand up to a bit of inquisition?
Swift if you consider yourself to be a logical, astute thinker with a degree of intellectual thinking applied to your life, please show me the evidence of this AWESOME flood that took place, such a massive event must have had huge effects on ecosystems, landscapes etc.... where is this evidence? What? You dont have any? Because it doesnt exist... oh... yes i forgot.... the bible told you it was true... arent you an open minded logical fellow.
Come on Swift, don't leave now, this is getting fun. Are your beliefs so weak, that they can't even stand up to a bit of inquisition?
Danoff
Premium
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code_kev
Not exactly an airtight argument. Scientists weren't there either, they could also be making it up.
But why would a God give a whale hipbones Swift? Seems abit daft. Or did God put this hip bones in to test our faith?
A better question is why did god build imperfections into the anatomy of human beings. Why do we have wisdom teeth for example? Or a spleen (or whichever one it is that's useless... maybe its the appendix??) Why do we have tonsils if they're just going to cause us problems?
Asking this is pointless. It's like asking how it is possible that Jesus rose from the dead or how it is possible that man was created from dirt, or how moses parted the red sea, or how the flood came about at all. The answer is that God intervened right? I mean why is this question any different from any of the others?
- 3,802
very true, but scientists never say "THIS IS HOW IT WAS", they say "this is how we think it was", and use evidence to back up their theories. This is not true of religious dogmatists.
Just like the fossils and evil scientists who don't agree with the bible, I have been put here by god to test your faith.
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- swift-bass
Thank You.danoff
That is the BEST question that I've heard in this discussion for pages. As I still have all those parts you explained, even my wisdom teeth. Many people have had them removed. So, this does raise a very good point. I'll have to look into that.
Again, thanks.
PS
(Banned)
- 2,883
sukerkin
Actually, I remember a little tidbit about cro-magnon man (from northern Africa) migrating farther north, who then encountered the common neanderthal somewhere in Europe. Some scientists think that the two species clashed and cro-magnon man (which some assume went on to the be Egyptians) became the dominant homosapien.
[edit]
Cro-magnon man was thought to be taller, leaner and faster, whereas neanderthal was shorter, more muscular and better suited for harsh winters and high-protein diets. Apparently brains won over bron.
[edit 2]
And I think that was approx. 10,000 BC. The Egyptians were approximately 2000 BC.
