Creation vs. Evolution

[a6m5]

All the more reason why people don't give other religions a fair shot. How can you know that your religion is the One True religion if you don't even investigate the other religions out there?

It's a good point, and valid in many cases. But if you are a beliver, there's a reason why Christianity is so popular around the world, to people from variety of unique cultures.

(FSM excluded, we all know that the One True Monster is our Savor)

Hyprocite!

 

[Grand Prix]

Depends on the denomination. As a follower of the Apostolic faith, I believe in Oneness. Simply meaning there is one God and three manifestations. Some christians believe in three seperate persons in the godhead.

So, the "original" God is of equal power to His son? Or, is He physically and supernaturally connected to His son as a single being?

 

[a6m5]

...And, if a person is at least educated, it is impossible for he/she to have not heard of the Titans, Zeus, Ra, Hades, and Vishnu.

I was referring to what danoff said earlier. He was saying that Swift probably chose Chrisitanity because he was exposed to teaching/name of Jesus before. I was just trying to say it's impossible to not have heard of Jesus or Christianity unless you live in middle of nowhere.

 

[Swift]

So, the "original" God is of equal power to His son? Or, is He physically and supernaturally connected to His son as a single being?

One God, Three forms or manifestations of that God. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Now, those are the forms of God, but there is only ONE God, and his name is Jesus Christ. He simply has different forms. Did that help clear things up?

 

[Grand Prix]

One God, Three forms or manifestations of that God. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Now, those are the forms of God, but there is only ONE God, and his name is Jesus Christ. He simply has different forms. Did that help clear things up?

That bloody liar! He said that He was the son of God when He was really God all along! Unless He reproduced with Himself...

 

[Swift]

That bloody liar! He said that He was the son of God when He was really God all along! Unless He reproduced with Himself...

I think you misunderstood what I said. He can be the son of God and God at the same time. He was born of a woman but he was still God. God doesn't have flesh and bone or blood. God has always required blood and death for a sacrifice of sin. It was NEVER a human though. Now, Jesus was the Lamb of God slain for our sin. So he was God with a body, that's all.

 

[Grand Prix]

I think you misunderstood what I said. He can be the son of God and God at the same time. He was born of a woman but he was still God. God doesn't have flesh and bone or blood. God has always required blood and death for a sacrifice of sin. It was NEVER a human though. Now, Jesus was the Lamb of God slain for our sin. So he was God with a body, that's all.

Sounds like the story of Cronus the Titan. 💡

 

[PS]

I think you misunderstood what I said. He can be the son of God and God at the same time. He was born of a woman but he was still God. God doesn't have flesh and bone or blood. God has always required blood and death for a sacrifice of sin. It was NEVER a human though. Now, Jesus was the Lamb of God slain for our sin. So he was God with a body, that's all.

So who created the Earth, then?

 

[(G)]

PS... the way he described that doesn't question God's supposed creation of the universe and Earth.

 

[Swift]

So who created the Earth, then?

Jesus. Who is God. But of course, the hebrews didn't know him by that name because he hadn't been born yet. I'm not really worried about the name, Ihoveah, El Shadi, The Almighty, Jesus. It's the same God. My point is that there is ONE god, not three. I hope I'm not offending anyone by saying this.

 

[sicbeing]

So he was God, but not God, and yet God, while also not being God, and yet he was talking to himself asking for his friend's forgiveness to God, and when he died he was God, but God can't die because God is infinite, but wait God was on earth in human form, who had blood and flesh and cast spells to slay the goblins in the dark cave of wonders, but then ressurected himself because that was a gift given to him by his father.

What?


by the way if God is infinite, he can't hear Jesus (or Jesus can't hear himself(?)) yelling to the sky as portrayed in the passion, right? Or no? Or what? It's all so confusing and full of a bajllion holes!

 

[PS]

So lets get this strait:

1. God creates Earth
2. Virgin gets knocked up by (presumably) Ghost
3. Gives birth to God/Jesus




Is that about what happened?


[edit]

And they say evolution sounds far-fetched.

 

[Grand Prix]

SEE!!!! God does have a Creator!!!

 

[a6m5]

That is a huge dispute in Christianity. I used to get into it with people who believed in the Trinity(they would try to change what I belived), but way I look at it, which church you belong to probably won't matter too much to God. Just my personal belief.

Edit:

And they say evolution sounds far-fetched.

That's stereotyping!

 

[Grand Prix]

Maybe God thinks only Mormons follow the right religion?

(haha, another South Park reference)

 

[sicbeing]

I think I read somewhere that when Jesus was supposidly ressurected, that not one other document written during that time period seemend to mention that God himself arose from the grave and was walking around.

I haven't read what happened after Jesus was ressurected, how did he die the second time? When he came back, what did the Jews do? Surely if the Jews say Jesus alive after being dead, they'd rethink everything, or maybe if they saw these miracles.

Did he live again and make it to old age and die? Was he hiding? Is he still out there today, roaming about?

 

[a6m5]

I think I read somewhere that when Jesus was supposidly ressurected, that not one other document written during that time period seemend to mention that God himself arose from the grave and was walking around.

I haven't read what happened after Jesus was ressurected, how did he die the second time? When he came back, what did the Jews do? Surely if the Jews say Jesus alive after being dead, they'd rethink everything, or maybe if they saw these miracles.

Did he live again and make it to old age and die? Was he hiding? Is he still out there today, roaming about?

I believe he was lifted to heaven?(help me out, Swift). Good point on "if" Jesus had shown himself to the Jews. That would've been interesting.

 

[sicbeing]

I believe he was lifted to heaven?(help me out, Swift). Good point on "if" Jesus had shown himself to the Jews. That would've been interesting.

yea man i wouldnt went back a "LOVED" thy enemy! lmao

 

[Swift]

I believe he was lifted to heaven?(help me out, Swift). Good point on "if" Jesus had shown himself to the Jews. That would've been interesting.

He acended(sp) into heaven from the Mount of Olives after 40 days. So he didn't grow old or anything.

PS, well I just hope you're joking with that little breakdown of yours.

 

[Danoff]

The following was found at this page: http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/fossils.html

Here's a discussion (with fossil images) about how one species of snail evolved into another:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/snails.html

Here's one showing another species transition:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/eocoelia.html

Here's another species transition:
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/foram.html

Here's one showing an evolutionary bifurcation. This is two species evolving from one.
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/radiolarian.html

And the clencher. A primate evolving over time into two distinct species of primate. Apparently they had a plethora of fossils for these guys and so they show the range of skeletal size from particular periods. The sizes for each period overlaps with the previous some but gradually heads in a particular direction until two species break off, not overlapping with each other but keeping continuity with the originating specie.
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/creation/pelycodus.html

Is the fossil record complete? Of course not, how could it be? Fossils of land animals are rather difficult to come by (due to the way they have to accidently become preserved for us to get them). Here's a quote about dinos:

"By now we have 22 fairly complete skeletons, but only one single footprint. We only have one complete stegosaur and no complete Triceratops. It was estimated in 1998 that half of all known dinosaur species were found in the preceding 20 years. If our luck holds, the species count will eventually double again. Three quarters of the known Cretaceous bird species were discovered in the 1990's. Basically, this was possible because the situation was terrible, and it still is. Apparently 99% of extinct dinosaur and bird species left no fossils whatsoever."

I didn't realize the situation was that bad. No complete Triceratops skeletons! Maybe that's changed since this was written, but even so... even if we had 2 it's less than I thought we had from the dinos.

Fish are easier to find fossils of because they die in an environment that covers them in sediment and leaves them fairly preserved. That's why most of the examples shown are not land animals. Still, this is pretty convincing stuff. I'm hoping Famine can chime in with some fossil pictures that also show transitions.

 

[Pako]

How wrong is this guy? Didn't have time to check his references.

http://www.rdeducation.com/CreationVsEvolution.html

 

[Danoff]

Pretty wrong:

Evolutionary Myth: There has been some kind of life on earth for billions of years. And man has lived for one million years.
The Truth: If animals and people have lived for millions of years there would be trillions of people and animals on the earth today, even if we allowed for worst-case plagues, natural disasters, etc. The number of people on earth today is about six billion. Even allowing for lower birth rates and higher death rates than what we have traditionally seen, this number indicates that man has been around for only a few thousand years.

Uh... what? He's out of his mind. That's the biggest slice of bologna I've seen in quite a while.

Evolutionary Myth: Man evolved from an ape-like creature.
The Truth: All “missing links” showing human evolution from apes have been proven to be mistaken identity or deliberate hoaxes. The links remain missing.

...the link remains missing. Gasp!!!

Evolutionary Myth: All animals evolved from lower life forms. Darwin stated that transitional fossils would be discovered to show the chain of evolution.
The Truth: No transitional fossils have been found showing one species or type of animal changing or evolving into another. For example, there are no fossils showing something that is part way between a dinosaur and a bird.

Nothing showing from dino into bird... got it. But we can show how two new species can form from one old specie.

Evolutionary Myth: Transitional forms survived better than the original species.
The Truth: A transitional form of an animal, such as one in which an arm slowly changes into a wing, would be very vulnerable because it could not fight and it could not fly away. This would make it less likely to survive not more likely.

Flying squirrel.

→ Evolutionary Myth: Dinosaurs evolved into birds.
The Truth: The differences between reptile and bird respiratory systems are substantial. It is impossible to believe that an animal could make that many changes over time and still survive.6

Nice facts. "It is impossible to believe..." way to go buddy. That's an airtight case.

→ Evolutionary Myth: Thousands of chance changes over millions of years resulted in the living creatures we see today.
The Truth: What is now known about human and animal anatomy shows the body structures to be infinitely more complex than was believed when Darwin published his work. Many biologists and especially microbiologists are now saying that there is no way these complex structures could have developed by accident.

I don't think they happend by accident either. Next.

→ Evolutionary Myth: The earth is 4.6 billion years old.
The Truth: Many processes observed today point to a young earth of only a few thousand years old. The rate at which the earth’s magnetic field is decaying suggests the earth must be less than 20,000 years old. The rate of population growth suggests only a few thousand years of human population. And, at the current rate of erosion, the Rocky Mountains would have been completely worn away in about 15 million years. All this and more indicates an earth much younger than 4.6 billion years

HOLY CRAP! This guy is a complete idiot!!

Ok, The magnetic field is cyclic. Next. The population growth suggests what? The population of no non-sentient species was able to grow past a certain points. Only man has figured out how to outgrow his (unaltered) environment (through the use of tools). Next. The Rocky Mountains..

→ Evolutionary Myth: The universe formed from the Big Bang.
The Truth: There are many problems with this theory. It does not explain where the initial material came from. It cannot explain what caused that material to fly apart. And nothing in physics indicates what would make the particles begin to stick together instead of flying off into space forever. The Big Bang Theory contradicts many scientific laws. Because of these problems, evolutionists are beginning to abandon the Big Bang Theory and to attempt to develop new theories to explain the origin of the universe.9

True, it does not explain where the material came from (that doesn't make it wrong). It does not explain what caused the bang (also doesn't make it wrong). Gravity suggests that the particles that flew off would clump.

It is true that new theories for the origin of the universe are coming along, but it isn't for these reasons.

→ Evolutionary Myth: Fossils prove evolution.
The Truth: No transitional fossils have been found showing one species or type of animal changing or evolving into another. For example, there are no fossils showing something that is part way between a dinosaur and a bird. Fossils show that a snail has always been a snail; a squid has always been a squid

👎 Wrong wrong wrong.

→ Evolutionary Myth: There is not enough water for a worldwide flood.
The Truth: Prior to the flood, just as today, much of the water was stored beneath the surface of the earth. In addition, the Bible says the water below was separated from the water above indicating that the atmosphere contained a great deal more water than it does today. Also, it is likely that the mountains were not as high before the flood as they are today. At the beginning of the flood the fountains of the deep burst forth and it rained for 40 days and nights. This could have provided enough water to flood the entire earth. Fossils have been found on the highest mountain peaks around the world showing that there was enough water to cover the earth.11

Famine covered this nicely.

→ Evolutionary Myth: The climate changes slowly over time. These changes have resulted in multiple ice ages.
The Truth: There is widespread evidence of glaciers in many parts of the world indicating one ice age. However, samples of frozen animals such as mammoths indicate a rapid climate change not a slow change. A slow change cannot explain what would trigger an ice age. However, conditions following a worldwide flood can explain how a single widespread ice age could have occurred.12

It is true that Ice ages take (at the most) 15 years to set in making significant temperature changes quite quickly. However, evidence of ice ages is geologically abundent.

→ Evolutionary Myth: Thousands of chance changes over millions of years resulted in the earth we see today.
The Truth: The Second Law of Thermodynamics describes how everything in the universe tends toward a state of zero entropy or chaos. We observe how everything around us becomes less organized and loses energy. The changes required for the formation of the universe, the planet earth, and life, all from disorder run counter to the physical laws we see at work today.

To apply the second law of thermodynamics to biology is like applying it to capitalism. I assure you, as one who has taken formal courses in thermodynamics and has used entropy to predict experimental outcomes, the 2nd law does not suggest that planets cannot form from smaller pieces.

 

[Swift]

I have to go along with most of what you said about that. But a flying squirel is a form of a transitional animal? It looks rather functional to me.

 

[(G)]

I have to go along with most of what you said about that. But a flying squirel is a form of a transitional animal? It looks rather functional to me.

Who says that a transitional species couldn't find itself occupying a good niche?

 

[Danoff]

I have to go along with most of what you said about that. But a flying squirel is a form of a transitional animal? It looks rather functional to me.

That's the point.

 

[Pako]

Just because a squirrell or a bat for that matter can fly, doesn't mean that it will grow feathers and lay eggs, or am I missing the point?

 

[Danoff]

Just because a squirrell or a bat for that matter can fly, doesn't mean that it will grow feathers and lay eggs, or am I missing the point?

Growing feathers and laying eggs is certainly not a requirement of birds (though I can't think of any examples that don't). Do bats lay eggs? Hang on let me look that up. No, of course not. The platapus is the only mammal that lays eggs. Bats give birth to live young and look a little a weird flying squirrel (if you squint and tilt your head).

My example was not to suggest that a flying squirrel would eventually evolve into a bird, grow feathers and lay eggs. A flying squirrel might evolve into something semi-batlike in a few millenia, but my real point was this:

Pseudo-wings can confer an advantage.

(the dude on the website was claiming otherwise)

Edit: Birds probably came from dinos or lizards or other scaly things that laid eggs.

 

[James2097]

Who said he had long hair and no job? During his ministry he didn't work. but he didn't start that until he was 30 years old. His family WASN'T rich. So what did he do? It's not like they had welfare back then or something. I'm still tripping on the fact people believe Jesus had long straight hair. Show me a hebrew male that has natural long straight hair. I won't say it never happens, but if it does, it's beyond rare.

I never specified straight hair, in fact I had subconciously assumed long, curly (hippy) hair. Not that it matters to my joke. I can say anything I want to back up a joke, especially when the source material gives no hard evidence one way or the other. Besides, have you met Jesus and asked him what kinda resume he has?

Do I need to draw a clown with a great big red nose with polka dot pants every time I want to make a joke?

I think if God hypothetically existed he would have had a killer sense of humour, going by Noah's ark etc etc... Lighten up! God wouldn't want you to worship him so seriously you mustn't ever make light-hearted religious themed jokes... I'm sure the crusades/church ruling peasants with fear etc etc wasn't what God had in mind, if he were hypothetically real. Bad stuff happens when people start worshipping their God/s in the wrong way (ie real hardcore, no humour, no acceptance of other views). Hence terrorism/crusades etc... People worshipping in a too hardcore and non-jokey fashion always leads to bloodshed...

I say, hey if you can't laugh what can you do?

 

[PS]

That is a huge dispute in Christianity. I used to get into it with people who believed in the Trinity(they would try to change what I belived), but way I look at it, which church you belong to probably won't matter too much to God. Just my personal belief.

Edit:


That's stereotyping!

Amino acids forming cell structures and proteins or a man creating earth, and then being born from a virgin, and then dies, and then gets ressurected, and dies again; which sounds more far-fetched?

 

[a6m5]

Amino acids forming cell structures and proteins or a man creating earth, and then being born from a virgin, and then dies, and then gets ressurected, and dies again; which sounds more far-fetched?

That's not what I'm saying. Let me put it this way. Not every religious people believes evolution is far fetched.