Creation vs. Evolution

[Ten]

Sweet. Wasn't sure I was even typing straight. Looking back, I don't remember typing half of that, and it only happened about an hour or so ago...

...no more all night GT3 binges for TenTen...

"Lucifer" is Latin for "Bringer of Light". Funky.

To enlighten is to decieve, cheat, and corrupt? Why, I don't smell selective party naming at all!!!! Y HELO THAR, PRE-EMPTIVE THINKING!

 

[PublicSecrecy]

Religion and Greek Mythology were created to give an explanation for something that we previously couldn;t explain, and to set forth rules and guidelines for the good of humanity. Evolution and Science were created to explain what we don't know, further our intuitive knowledge, and to find out how we actually got here. End of story.

 

[Pako]

There are many people who believe that Jesus was a real person, not a mythological god. Jesus tell's a much different story than what you are describing.

 

[KieranMurphy]

The US Constitution doesn't allow religion to be taught in a school so you couldn't teach creationism, but I don't think that evolution should be taught in school either because not all people believe in it. They don't let religion be taught because not all believe so they shouldn't make those of us who are Christians learn evolution because we don't believe that.

Not everyone believes that the Holocaust happened. Should the history of Nazi Germany be removed from the school curriculum or maybe holocaust denial added to it as an alternative?

Not everyone believes that the HIV virus causes AIDS. Should HIV/AIDS be removed from sex-ed classes or should the alternate theories about how other things than HIV cause AIDS be added as alternatives?

Not everyone believes that the moon landings happened. Should NASA's achievements in the 1960s be removed from modern history or should the conspiracy theorists alternatives be added to modern history teachings?

Need I go on? There probably isn't a single thing taught in US or any other country's school curriculums that some nutjob doesn't dispute. You can't remove everything from the curriculum just because someone foaming at the mouth doesn't like it.


KM.

 

[Carl.]

I've just read this...

Evolution's bad... m'kay!!

Some excerpts:

[size=-1]

And a school board member in a Tennessee county wants stickers pasted on textbooks that say evolution remains unproven.

[...]
[/size]

[size=-1]
(on evolution)[/size]
[size=-1]"Kids need to understand it, but they need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the data, how much of it is a guess, how much of it is extrapolation."

[...]

[/size][size=-1]"If students only have one thing to consider, one option, that's really more brainwashing," [/size][size=-1]

[/size]Sounds like a little dance. One step forward, spin around, two step behind...

Now, tell me what anyone of those who are pushing for creationism to be taught "on the same level" as evolutionism in classes - because of "unproven" bits in Darwin's theory - would think of teaching Christianism to children evenly with other "unproven" theories such as Islam or Buddhism? Or perhaps putting a big "THIS IS UNPROVEN THEORY" sticker on each and every bible in schools?

I think I'll put back the quote from Einstein about human stupidity and the universe in my sig, It sometimes seems more significant that e=mc2"[size=-1]
[/size]

 

[Danoff]

Claiming that evolution is as valid as creationism is totally incorrect – I wanted to make clear where I stand on that issue. No, evolution is not a rock solid truth of the universe, but nothing is. If you don’t teach evolution you can’t teach everything we think we know about biology (and which works in practice). You can’t teach everything we think we know about chemistry, or physics. In short, if you didn’t teach subjects like evolution in schools just because they aren’t proven in the strictest possible sense, you’d have to throw out all of science, and our civilization would plunge back into a dark ages kind of existence where people worried about living past 25 years old.

Creationism is not a competing theory with evolution. No self-respecting religious person should think otherwise. It doesn’t challenge your religious beliefs to treat genesis figuratively rather than literally, it strengthens them – because if you treat genesis literally, your religious beliefs have a VERY weak base.

If you want to believe creationism you have to put it up against or in conjunction with the Big Bang rather than evolution.

I’ve said it all before on this thread but I figured I’d try to clear things up a bit.

 

[Carl.]

I totally agree with you on this, but it seems hard to see for a lot of people - even some of my family members, to my disappointment. I just can't believe how much people are pushing for such things, to the point I'm asking myself if some are missing these dark ages when science was something evil.

It's people like this that make me thinks we'd be better off without any kind of religion at all. They've done some good in providing moral guidelines for their followers, but they've also have been used by organized groups or elites to gain power and keep control of populations, something that science has yet to "accomplish" in history.

Anyway, more specifically on the issue, I'm not aware of how courses are structured eslewhere, but here parents have a choice of either having their children following religion classes or classes teaching about basic moral values, and they also learn about other religions in both of them. The evolution theory is obviously ( and rightly so) being thaught in biology classes where it is presented as Darwin's THEORY while they learn how he made it, and the EVIDENCE he used. Why wouldn't that be enough?

If my childrens were to be thaught religion as science, or that I'd be forced to have them follow religious (dogma) classes, I'd move elsewhere.

I guess the earth's still flat at some places.

 

[ledhed]

I think its just that some heads are flat.

 

[JGTChampion]

Go evolution no such thing as creation.

 

[PS]

I suggest you stop making blatant ignorant broad sweeping generalizations now, before you say something stupid and get yourself banned. People in here have opinions and feelings and I suggest you include either an "IMO" in it, or stop making such obnoxious statements. Save it for the Conversation Forum.

On the topic of creationism, we can't really provide 100% proof of either one, nor will we ever be able to. But, depending on whatever your religion is, it's all different, and each one has a different story to tell, which based on innacuracy and contradictory accounts, I've come to the conclusion of evolution. But that one question still bugs me, what did it start from?

 

[Danoff]

On the topic of creationism, we can't really provide 100% proof of either one, nor will we ever be able to.

You can give 99% proof of one and .0001% proof of the other.

But that one question still bugs me, what did it start from?

That's the realm of religion - the places where science doesn't have good answers yet.

 

[JGTChampion]

I suggest you stop making blatant ignorant broad sweeping generalizations now, before you say something stupid and get yourself banned. People in here have opinions and feelings and I suggest you include either an "IMO" in it, or stop making such obnoxious statements. Save it for the Conversation Forum.

On the topic of creationism, we can't really provide 100% proof of either one, nor will we ever be able to. But, depending on whatever your religion is, it's all different, and each one has a different story to tell, which based on innacuracy and contradictory accounts, I've come to the conclusion of evolution. But that one question still bugs me, what did it start from?

Dude calm down im just joking. but like you said before im sorry for wasting bandwith or whatever i wont do it again.

 

[PS]

You can give 99% proof of one and .0001% proof of the other.

...but that doesn't add up. Literally! Where's the other 0.9999%? In SCJ's religion comments?

That's the realm of religion - the places where science doesn't have good answers yet.

I think I'll just stick to my gramma's after-dinner stories then.

 

[PS]

Dude calm down im just joking. but like you said before im sorry for wasting bandwith or whatever i wont do it again.

No harsh feelings, but the opinions thread usually isn't a very funny one and there have been many heated debates on it. This thread, along with the questioning religion one, being 2 of them. For months an eWar has waged in the opinions forum and we don't need any petrol to be spat on to the fire.

 

[JGTChampion]

No harsh feelings, but the opinions thread usually isn't a very funny one and there have been many heated debates on it. This thread, along with the questioning religion one, being 2 of them. For months an eWar has waged in the opinions forum and we don't need any petrol to be spat on to the fire.

icic
thanks for telling me because im new here
sorry for the problems

 

[Danoff]

...but that doesn't add up. Literally! Where's the other 0.9999%? In SCJ's religion comments?

That's funny and all but seriously... those two percentages didn't have to add up because they're independent of each other.

 

[a6m5]

I've just read this...

Evolution's bad... m'kay!!

Some excerpts:

[size=-1]

[/size]Sounds like a little dance. One step forward, spin around, two step behind...

Now, tell me what anyone of those who are pushing for creationism to be taught "on the same level" as evolutionism in classes - because of "unproven" bits in Darwin's theory - would think of teaching Christianism to children evenly with other "unproven" theories such as Islam or Buddhism? Or perhaps putting a big "THIS IS UNPROVEN THEORY" sticker on each and every bible in schools?

I think I'll put back the quote from Einstein about human stupidity and the universe in my sig, It sometimes seems more significant that e=mc2"[size=-1]
[/size]

Thanks for an very interesting article. While I am a believer in intelligent design, I must admit, this sounds highly political. I wonder if Famine has read it yet, he'll throw a fit.

. In short, if you didn’t teach subjects like evolution in schools just because they aren’t proven in the strictest possible sense, you’d have to throw out all of science, and our civilization would plunge back into a dark ages kind of existence where people worried about living past 25 years old.

I'm not sure about that, but I do get your point. I also do agree that it would be crazy not to teach evolution in schools.

If you want to believe creationism you have to put it up against or in conjunction with the Big Bang rather than evolution.

I agree.

I think its just that some heads are flat.

Go evolution no such thing as creation.

Do, do, don't make me come over there!

No harsh feelings, but the opinions thread usually isn't a very funny one and there have been many heated debates on it. This thread, along with the questioning religion one, being 2 of them. For months an eWar has waged in the opinions forum and we don't need any petrol to be spat on to the fire.

PS, could he be our future mod?! 👍

 

[Carl.]

Again...

Un-friggin-believable


I had a good laugh initially, but that's rather scary than funny.

 

[Delirious]

http://www.answersingenesis.org doesnt that count as evidence?
http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html does this count as evidence too?
http://www.carm.org/evarchive.htm and one more...

if all that doesnt count for evidence...everything in those sites, every tid-bit of information...nothing will make you guys believe

unless you have faith

 

[ledhed]

As it stands now the bible is fiction. if you take on one hand what we know about when the first man walked the earth and compare the teachings of the old testiment. Maybe God will do a re- write to bring it up to date.

 

[Famine]

http://www.answersingenesis.org doesnt that count as evidence?

No.

Where's the peer-reviewed published research papers?

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html does this count as evidence too?

No.

Where's the peer-reviewed published research papers?

http://www.carm.org/evarchive.htm and one more...

No.

Where's the peer-reviewed published research papers?

if all that doesnt count for evidence...everything in those sites, every tid-bit of information...nothing will make you guys believe

unless you have faith

Faith doesn't require proof - in fact proof denies faith. Neither does evidence require belief.

This seems to be the thing you aren't getting.

 

[Delirious]

shoot em an e-mail and get their response on a research paper

 

[Famine]

It's quite easy - none of them supply a list of published research papers, so none of them have any to their name.

Christian Answers: "This ministry is based on team work between like-minded Christian ministries, a small paid staff, and hundreds of volunteers."

You MUST be Christian, you MUST be their denomination of Christianity and you MUST think what they think. Not really the basis of sound, questioning thirst for knowledge is it?

 

[Delirious]

i would think answersingenesis would have some papers

plus, the evidence they have that refutes evolution...is it all wrong just because you dont see any research papers?

is the evidence they supply even worth looking at?

 

[Famine]

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

Yet all of the lofty titles and degrees of the founding members and touring speakers don't have ONE published article between them as to why the Genesis account is accurate - in whole or in part - in even a halfway reputable, peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Makes you think, huh?

Well, as long as you don't think for yourself, or think of anything different from the folks at ChristianAnswers.net though.

 

[Delirious]

so you didnt send them an e-mail asking for research papers?

even if you cannot find any research papers...all the evidence on those sites...doesnt it all refute evolution?

also, which sounds more far fetched...the idea of the big bang happening, somehow it all came together perfectly to form the solar system and the universe, and everything was just right for human life...for no reason whatsoever

or it all being created by a higher power for a divine reason?

 

[Zrow]

also, which sounds more far fetched...the idea of the big bang happening, somehow it all came together perfectly to form the solar system and the universe, and everything was just right for human life...for no reason whatsoever

or it all being created by a higher power for a divine reason?

Don't think of it as "everything coming together perfectly to make human life" - think of it as a series of events that occured to make life exist as it does.

Question - why does it have to have a reason?

 

[Delirious]

because thought of everything coming to existence...everything we know as life, every single precise minute detail, every atomic structure that makes up everything we know, everything in the vast universe...sounds kind of meaningless for everything in its vast array and beauty of it all to be without a reason

if you see a painting in a forest, you wont think it evolved there...you will think there is a painter behind a painting...there must be some form of creator behind all this universe

what are the chances of the universe in everything in its entirety coming together, everything we know, coming together just by a mere chance...

sounds more foolish to believe that everything came together by some sort of chance of happenings that really cannot be explained...(how can you prove the big bang really did happen?) than to believe that a God with all power created everything, for a purpose

also the latter sounds a lot more meaningful and not worthless

 

[ledhed]

You percieve it as beutifull . what if its not ? What if its considered ugly ? Why do you say that conditions were perfect ? do you just percieve them as perfect because they ended up producing humans . What if they were in fact imperfect and resulted in a failure thus creating humans ? Our model of perfection could just as easily be someone or something elses model for disaster. If Whales were found on another planet as the dominant and sentinent species , do you not think that thier perception of earth species would be different ? Imagine how they would percieve humans.
By the way , your sig says that in the beginning god created the heaven and the Earth. How can that be ? The universe has been in existance for milleniums longer than the Earth . why doesn't it say " In the begining God created the heavens Earth came later ?

 

[Delirious]

because the earth is only 6000 years old...God created the world and universe in 6 days...doesnt take that long for a God of unlimited power to do that

do you honestly believe that the universe is ugly?