Creation vs. Evolution

[(G)]

Organs that no longer have uses could be attributed to holdovers from evolution from an organism that used the organ.

(Yeah, I'm pretty unorganized.)

Organs that do not function until the organism reaches maturity aren't problems in evolution, they are examples. If an organism is raised in an enviroment where it's growth to maturity is assured, then having organs develop later to shorten gestation periods makes sense. I'll elaborate later when I'm not pressed on time.

 

[PS]

Did this come about on its own due to randomness and mutations? Is the passing of time responsible for this? I simply cannot believe that.

You may not be able to believe that, but it's true. Do you think a spider or an ant is much simpler? Do you know how many nerve endings are on the end of a moles nose? The star-nosed mole has touch-receptors that are 10,000 times more sensitive that our lips.

The bones, the muscles, the nerves, did all these things, none which can work without the other, slowly come together due to the creature needing them?

Yes, and no. They didn't come together one by one. Ever see a baby in a womb grow bones? How they're soft and deformed and barely shaped? That's 2 billion years worth of genetic advancement. 2 BILLION YEARS. 250,000,000x longer than you'll ever live.

Did a creature suddenly grow a heart?

No.

How do creatures with hearts survive before they had a heart?

You're aware that bacteria and other microscopic forms of live don't need hearts, right?

What about the vessels, lungs and myriads of other things a human needs to live?

WE WEREN'T HUMAN THEN. THAT IS EVOLUTION. IN ANOTHER 2 BILLION YEARS WE WONT BE HUMAN. JESUS!

Did we simply gain these things one at a time, then when the time was right they started working?

I'm not even dignifying that with a response. You ask some of the most ludicrous questions sometimes, it plagues my mind how someone could possibly come up with these. Where's Duke? He needs to lay a smack-down.

Where did the plants come from? Did life evolve plants on land and life in the water at the same time? What did the amphibians eat once on land if there was no insects or any other life?

WTF do you think an amphibian is?! NOT life?! Plants, insects, other amphibians, fish, reptiles, whatever the hell they wanted to!

The idea that he is a spirit and cannot be seen is no reason not to believe

It's plenty of reason not to believe--you can't even comprehend evolution, how can you possibly comprehend GOD?! By your definition, HE IS EVERYWHER. HE KNOWS ALL. HE SEES ALL. Omniscient, omnipowerfull, and omnipresent.

It's more reason to not believe in something that cannot be quantified, studied, measured, analyzed, recorded, interviewed, taped, anything, than it is to not believe evolution-- which can be quantified, studied, measured, analyzed, recorded, interviewed, and taped.

God exists

Oh, and here's the kicker. . .

Prove it.





By the way, your avatar disgusts me.

 

[Earth]

Creation is proof God exists

WTF do you think an amphibian is?! NOT life?! Plants, insects, other amphibians, fish, reptiles, whatever the hell they wanted to!

so your saying life began in the ocean and on land at the same time? example, fish evolved until they reached amphibian while insects and reptiles evolved on land at the same time? did cells create land and sea life at the same time?

By the way, your avatar disgusts me.

Kettle calling the pot black

Maybe I should put a hot guy in my avatar. Would you like that better?

 

[Burnout]

Maybe I should put a hot guy in my avatar. Would you like that better?

Oh em gee.

Sorry, but that was funny.

Anyways. I've noticed a lot of name calling recently this this thread. I guess everyone is just getting frustrated with everyone else?

 

[Burnout]

Creation is proof God exists

Seriously.

Why would you need anymore proof?

And I wanna know what evidence Evolutionist have that 2 Billion years ago we weren't human.

 

[Grand Prix]

Fossils.

 

[Burnout]

Fossils.

How so?

Could there not have been a few human fossils that were deformed?

 

[Grand Prix]

Fossil record showing evidence of apes around at a time when there weren't any humans.

Or, the presence of avian dinosaurs around at a time when today's birds weren't.

Edit: Sometimes palentologists find fossils of trilobites among the same layer of rock as a dinosaur. That doesn't mean that trilobites and dinoisaurs co-existed at the same time, of course. The trilobite fossil got unearthed during a dinosaur period, and was covered up again.

 

[Burnout]

Fossil record showing evidence of apes around at a time when there weren't any humans.

Maybe humans hadn't been created yet.

 

[Grand Prix]

No, they weren't.

 

[James2097]

Looks like a pretty scientific diagram you're using there!

We didn't evolve into modern humans quickly, nor did some organs evolve before others (duh - the whole concept of evolution is that only the most suitable designs actually survive). Entire working (alive) species of early humans evolved over millions of years. Of course there is never a point where you get a creature who hasn't got the requisite organs and biological system to live properly, but there are still remnants of design features in us that were useful a long time ago, or will be useful (and fully formed) in the future. We are a work in progress, and will never be "finished". Did you see those pics of humans born with tails? . You still need to comprehend what a REALLY long time is.

 

[DadtheWheel]

...*snip*...Where did the plants come from? Did life evolve plants on land and life in the water at the same time? What did the amphibians eat once on land if there was no insects or any other life?

Wow! I am not sure what is more surprising; the fact that this was written or that it was replied to?

In Anthropological terms, you are one of the members of a culture that does not get surveyed.

 

[Earth]

Seriously.

Why would you need anymore proof?

And I wanna know what evidence Evolutionist have that 2 Billion years ago we weren't human.

They have no fossil record of where monkeys/apes came from


All the 'apeman' fossils that they have found can fit into a single coffin, despite the fact they say hundreds of thousands of these creatures existed.

Neandertahl and cromagnom [or however it is spelled] are humans

The evidence for intermediate species between man and ape is so thin some have resorted to forgery.

[evolution referred to next is life coming from non-life and life jumping from bird to reptile etc]

Evolution is accepted by some because scientific dogma now presents it as established fact, that only the [smart] accept it, [while the ignorant remain oldfashioned by believing there is a God] and most of its supporters label other views as ignorant etc despite not having a valid reason.

At schools the theory is taught as fact, and stating other opinions will get you rebuked, and your grade will be lowered.

edit: calling a question stupid is an easy way around it, huh

 

[Grand Prix]

Uh-huh, right. Your opinion is as valid as a dogmatic scientist because you are dogmatic as well, right?

"I don't need an expert's opinion, mine is as valid as his is!"
If this is so, why are experts hired?

Meh, I'm rambling.

 

[Earth]

Uh-huh, right. Your opinion is as valid as a dogmatic scientist because you are dogmatic as well, right?

It is obvious through creation God exists. The rest is just details.

"I don't need an expert's opinion, mine is as valid as his is!"
If this is so, why are experts hired?

Scientists dont have a clue how a cell made itself, so its opinion. They can try and tell you where the parts came from etc but as for how it all started working together and becoming alive they leave a ? because they dont know. It is an opinion

Meh, I'm rambling

Tired, huh? Me too. I wish I could leave this thread. I think we both know we're not changing our ideals because of things said in this thread

 

[James2097]

They have no fossil record of where monkeys/apes came from


All the 'apeman' fossils that they have found can fit into a single coffin, despite the fact they say hundreds of thousands of these creatures existed.

Neandertahl and cromagnom [or however it is spelled] are humans

The evidence for intermediate species between man and ape is so thin some have resorted to forgery.

[evolution referred to next is life coming from non-life and life jumping from bird to reptile etc]

Evolution is accepted by some because scientific dogma now presents it as established fact, that only the [smart] accept it, [while the ignorant remain oldfashioned by believing there is a God] and most of its supporters label other views as ignorant etc despite not having a valid reason.

At schools the theory is taught as fact, and stating other opinions will get you rebuked, and your grade will be lowered.

edit: calling a question stupid is an easy way around it, huh

Oh dear. I'm going to get the burning sticks ready right now. Earth, you are so far gone in your own irrationality that no amount of logical explanation will convince you of anything. I'll forgive you if you're only 12 though.

 

[Earth]

Oh dear. I'm going to get the burning sticks ready right now. Earth, you are so far gone in your own irrationality that no amount of logical explanation will convince you of anything. I'll forgive you if you're only 12 though.

What I stated is fact

Even you cant deny that

I dislike this new tactic.

Labeling me ignorant now, are we?

That is a good way to downplay my opinion.

Some advocates of evolution and others have been using this tactic for a while now.

 

[James2097]

Labeling me ignorant now, are we?

Yes. In the biggest way.

That is a good way to downplay my opinion.

Thanks! I don't have to downplay it though, you do that all by yourself.

Scientists and others have been using this tactic for a while now.

Its not about beating the other side, its about finding the truth. The side effect is that creationists end up looking stupid.

 

[Earth]

Please explain to me the ignorance you found in this post.

They have no fossil record of where monkeys/apes came from


All the 'apeman' fossils that they have found can fit into a single coffin, despite the fact they say hundreds of thousands of these creatures existed.

Neandertahl and cromagnom [or however it is spelled] are humans

The evidence for intermediate species between man and ape is so thin some have resorted to forgery.

[evolution referred to next is life coming from non-life and life jumping from bird to reptile etc]

Evolution is accepted by some because scientific dogma now presents it as established fact, that only the [smart] accept it, [while the ignorant remain oldfashioned by believing there is a God] and most of its supporters label other views as ignorant etc despite not having a valid reason.

At schools the theory is taught as fact, and stating other opinions will get you rebuked, and your grade will be lowered.

edit: calling a question stupid is an easy way around it, huh

 

[(G)]

They have no fossil record of where monkeys/apes came from

Wrong. Dig through here.

All the 'apeman' fossils that they have found can fit into a single coffin, despite the fact they say hundreds of thousands of these creatures existed.

1.) Wrong again. Hundreds of thousands likely didn't even exist.
2.) The sheer chance of the right conditions for fossilisation have prevented many dead protohumans from being glorified in museums and universities.

Neandertahl and cromagnom [or however it is spelled] are humans

Neandertahl was NOT A MODERN HUMAN. It was genetically different. It was a different species of human.

The evidence for intermediate species between man and ape is so thin some have resorted to forgery.

What can I say, people like to get famous.

[evolution referred to next is life coming from non-life and life jumping from bird to reptile etc]

Evolution does not concern itself with the origin of life. You haven't read anything in this thread, have you?

Evolution is accepted by some because scientific dogma now presents it as established fact, that only the [smart] accept it, [while the ignorant remain oldfashioned by believing there is a God] and most of its supporters label other views as ignorant etc despite not having a valid reason.

At schools the theory is taught as fact, and stating other opinions will get you rebuked, and your grade will be lowered.

Wrong. Science, if given SUFFICIENT PROOF (Read: NOT A BOOK.) will dump evolution for a better, more suitable theory on the origin of species. Good luck finding that.

As for schools - good luck getting bored 14 year olds to listen to ANYTHING YOU SAY.

edit: calling a question stupid is an easy way around it, huh

It sure is an easy way to answer a question as ludicrous as yours. You take the easier way out. Not acknowledging the answers and questions.

Scientists dont have a clue how a cell made itself, so its opinion. They can try and tell you where the parts came from etc but as for how it all started working together and becoming alive they leave a ? because they dont know. It is an opinion

You have an opinion. Scientists don't bring opinions to the lab, or they would be picked apart as soon as their data leaves their computer and shows up at the editors of a scientific journal.

What I stated is fact

Even you cant deny that

I dislike this new tactic.

Labeling me ignorant now, are we?

That is a good way to downplay my opinion.

Some advocates of evolution and others have been using this tactic for a while now.

Earth, I give up on you. This is a debate - you take in and learn from what the other side says to improve your data and argument. To this day, you failed to do that. Even the other creationists did that.

 

[Swift]

PS you never answered my question. Would you die for anything?

 

[Earth]

Wrong. Dig through here.

1.) Wrong again. Hundreds of thousands likely didn't even exist.
2.) The sheer chance of the right conditions for fossilisation have prevented many dead protohumans from being glorified in museums and universities.

I'm talking about the origin of apes and monkeys, not humans. Who is the ancestor of the modern ape?
So they [missing links] haven't been found. What has been found can fit into a coffin.

Neandertahl was NOT A MODERN HUMAN. It was genetically different. It was a different species of human.

Different species of human? It looks pretty human to me. It isnt apeman. Didnt cromagman and neandertahl come from the same species of monkey/ape? Or did seperate monkeys/ape produce 2 types of humans?

Evolution does not concern itself with the origin of life. You haven't read anything in this thread, have you?

Evolution is too broad a word. When I speak of it, I'm usually talking about the beginning of life and life jumping kinds, like bird to reptile. i will use abiogenesis in my wording next time.

Wrong. Science, if given SUFFICIENT PROOF (Read: NOT A BOOK.) will dump evolution for a better, more suitable theory on the origin of species. Good luck finding that.

What proof do you want God made life on Earth? You have no proof blind forces did. Yet that theory is in text books, despite the overwhelming odds against it and the fact some scientists are [brave] enough to admit maybe God made it afterall

It sure is an easy way to answer a question as ludicrous as yours. You take the easier way out. Not acknowledging the answers and questions.

a. did life in the ocean evolve from plants or vice versa

should be a easy question. answer it, please

 

[James2097]

They have no fossil record of where monkeys/apes came from

Blatantly untrue. Besides, we didn't come from monkeys. Time to drop the monkey references buddy.

All the 'apeman' fossils that they have found can fit into a single coffin, despite the fact they say hundreds of thousands of these creatures existed.

Fossils are kinda hard to keep in good condition. The coffin thing is neither important to the debate nor true. Anyway, there are more than enough complete fossil records to prove how we evolved, coupled with a huge wealth of similar evolutionary paths of other species. We are but one species, there have been LOADS of other species that have shown evolution at work with a HUGE amount of evidence. The VAST amount of independently corroborated research all points clearly to evolution happening. What more evidence do you need than a ****e-load of real physical fossils showing the evolution of many many species? It would be nice to show OUR (humans) entire timeline with no 'missing links' but that is neither here nor there, as evolution has been proved anyway. The presence of merely ONE species' complete fossil records proves evolution. Consider the evidence across hundereds of other documented species and the combined evidence (all fitting in with itself perfectly) is overwhelming. You're just being IGNORANT.

Neandertahl and cromagnom [or however it is spelled] are humans

Erm, NO. Not at all. This was covered some time back, especially for you! IGNORANT, and mindblowingly uneducated.

The evidence for intermediate species between man and ape is so thin some have resorted to forgery.

Evidence? Its only thin according to creationists. Again, whether we show the full timeline for human evolution is neither here nor there, we are but one species of animal on this planet. If there are some idiots who want to forge fossils, that task is actually quite impossible. Its also invalid as a means to disprove evolution. So what if some idiots tried to fake a fossil? The scientific community would never stand behind fake evidence. The whole goal is to find the truth, not believe fake evidence. You still don't understand the basic principles of good science do you?

Evolution is accepted by some because scientific dogma now presents it as established fact,

Scientific dogma? Thats just your little opinion mate. The fact that many many scientists from all over the world have independently agreed and found astoundingly conclusive evidence for evolution, that is somehow dogma? You have no idea what you're talking about whatsoever me laddy. Now, creationists DO carry on irrationally with the same dogma with no evidence AT ALL to support their belief. This is the correct use of the word dogma. There isn't a SCRAP of evidence to support creationism, and many things religious people believe (like the ark etc) just prove its even MORE ludicrous and irrational. Just taking your word for it that God exists ain't worth a pinch of salt to a logical person. IGNORANT.

...only the [smart] accept it, [while the ignorant remain oldfashioned by believing there is a God] and most of its supporters label other views as ignorant etc despite not having a valid reason.

Yep, people who agree that evolution is the best theory are smart. It takes a tiny bit of thought to comprehend correctly the magnitude and logic of how things have evolved. The evidence is clear, one just needs to actually understand the concept, and see the evidence, which you haven't been able to do, or simply ignore. One also needs to understand how the scientific process is vastly different from a damn belief system. You are totally IGNORANT here.

At schools the theory is taught as fact, and stating other opinions will get you rebuked, and your grade will be lowered.

It is taught as fact because it IS, BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT. Isn't it funny how they usually teach the most logical things in school? If you start talking about creationism in science class, of course you're going to look like a dumbass. If I started saying that 4 came before 3 in mathematics, I'd recieve a bad mark also. You completely fail to comprehend the painstaking detail and solidity and respect evolution has as a theory. All the evidence (EVERY FOSSIL FOUND) has lined up perfectly to reinforce evolutionary timelines for every species. Creationism has NOTHING. Doesn't the fact that everyone laughs at you tell you something? Maybe you're totally IGNORANT?

 

[Grand Prix]

But the Creationists think you're ignorant James!

 

[James2097]

But the Creationists think you're ignorant James!

How can I be ignorant if there is no evidence to look at regarding creationism? I know their arguments as well as they do. Yes, I am slightly less well versed in bible quotes. But its still a question of scale, creationists are infinately more ignorant.

Edit: it might've seemed like I thought Grand Prix was accusing me of being ignorant, I did know he was being sarcastic and rhetorical... I was just clearing up the difference in ignorance.

 

[PS]

Creation is proof God exists

NO IT IS NOT.

Prove to me that creation happened, and then prove to me that god exists.

so your saying life began in the ocean and on land at the same time?

It could have begun on Mars for all I know. In this solar system anyway.

example, fish evolved until they reached amphibian while insects and reptiles evolved on land at the same time?

Everything evolves at a constant rate all the time.

did cells create land and sea life at the same time?

LIFE WASN'T CREATED! It wasn't created by God, by you, by me, by cells, by the Queen, by Willy Wonka and by gum I can't stand the crap you post on here. PLEASE, I'm BEGGING YOU, DO SOME RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING.

Kettle calling the pot black

Yah, right. Comming from a self-righteous hypocritical arrogant ignoramous such as yourself. Your "facts" are simply wrong, nothing to it. You have very little concept of basic science, and frankly, I don't think you're qualified to participate in this debate.

Maybe I should put a hot guy in my avatar. Would you like that better?

No. I'm 99.9% sure that fornication is a sin in your religion, and so is homosexuality.

Oh, and where'd you get your avatar anyway? She looks pretty skanky.

 

[PS]

Maybe humans hadn't been created yet.

No, they were not. And I thought Christians believed that the Earth was 6000 years old?

No, they weren't.

Yup. They never were. Humans weren't "created". We evolved from a common simian ancestor, and some just refuse to even acknowledge its' existence.

Seriously.

Why would you need anymore proof?

And I wanna know what evidence Evolutionist have that 2 Billion years ago we weren't human.

Why would you? You just said "creation. why would you need any more proof?" I could just as easily (and more validly) say "evolution. why would you need anymore proof?". You, too, have no credibility. Why not? You don't offer ANY iota of evidence, not even a story. You didn't even fabricate one! At least back up your claims with some sort of reasoning, otherwise you're not abiding by the Opinions Forum Guidelines.

How so?

Could there not have been a few human fossils that were deformed?

If every bone was deformed, we wouldn't be here. Duh. Deformed creatures don't last, if they did, their deformities would still be seen and people shaped like monkeys would be wlaking all over. Logic alone denies that one. *sigh*

What I stated is fact

You have to provide publish resources which have been peer reviewed and approved by someone qualified to say that. Now do it.

Even you cant deny that

I am right now. And you can't stop me, because you have no evidence.

I dislike this new tactic.

That's because you're making a fool of yourself, and you're being proven wrong left and right.

Labeling me ignorant now, are we?

Yes, because you are. You're making **** up, plain and simple. I'm extremely fed up with this 8-year-old daddy-told-me-so-it-must-be-true attitude.

That is a good way to downplay my opinion.

Yes, it is. Because your opinion has no substance or basis for its' existence.

Some advocates of evolution and others have been using this tactic for a while now.

It's not even a tactic. It's just giving you a rude awakening, and noone likes those.

Think of me as the bulldozer plowing through the wall of your bedroom at 4 in the morning.

 

[PS]

PS you never answered my question. Would you die for anything?

Not just anything. Depends on what it is.

 

[PS]

Please explain to me the ignorance you found in this post.

90% of it is blatantly wrong. I've had enough of you. I'll let the real nasty buzzards pick you apart (Duke & Famine).

Just a warning: they start with the eyes.

 

[Swift]

Not just anything. Depends on what it is.

Good grief. Just answer the question man.