CSW & CSR Elite: Questions you would like answered by the reviewers

  • Thread starter LogiForce
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Aiobhill
More of a general question, so I'm happy if any owners of the (old) CSP chime in: how susceptible are the pedals to dust and fur/hair and how difficult to clean. I spend most of my time in a household with a little boy and a little dog. :mischievous:
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I can answer #3 (about the original CSP)- I have two dogs and my rig is in an unfinished (but climate controlled) basement. My wife smokes (only a few in the evening) about 30' away in her art studio portion of the basement. Oh, and I'm a bit of a slob!

What I'm getting at is I have not cleaned the pedals out in a long time, and no issues. Not recommended conditions I'm sure, but I've been lucky (and/or these things hold up well!) Would prefer if the cabling to the sensors was more protected however. Anyway, I'll try to remember to take some pics of the CSP set as-is when I go to remove them from my rig to try the v2.
 
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Aiobhill
Also concerning CSP V.2:

How viable is left foot breaking while wearing racing shoes (Puma Speed Cat as to have a rough guesstimate on their size); especially what is the maximum distance between brake and gas pedals.

In what range can the brake resistance be selected. Also is there a way to change brake resistance independant of the length of travel of the brake pedal.

More of a general question, so I'm happy if any owners of the (old) CSP chime in: how susceptible are the pedals to dust and fur/hair and how difficult to clean. I spend most of my time in a household with a little boy and a little dog. :mischievous:
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The CSP pedal plate positions are adjustable, should be the same for V.2s.

There is an adjustment dial for the load cell on both V.1 & V.2s.

I have cats at home, so when not in use my CSPs are kept covered in a spare helmet bag, mine require periodic maintenance for keeping squeaks away, and when I lube, I usually double-check all the hardware that secures the sensors and etc.
 
My question: does turning up the FFB past 100% all the way as high as it goes and then running for extended periods of time cause excess heat buildup? Could you foresee just from the feel of the motors feedback that there might be a potential premature wear issue from doing this?
 
question: to what degree does the csw enhance the immersion level compared to, let's say, a g27?
I read that a better wheel doesn't necessarily make you faster, but I want to understand what a pro wheel like this can do for your driving.
 
KashunatoR
question: to what degree does the csw enhance the immersion level compared to, let's say, a g27?
I read that a better wheel doesn't necessarily make you faster, but I want to understand what a pro wheel like this can do for your driving.
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I think I can give you a general answer now.

The immersion level is considerably higher. The reason the T500 might be slower compared to a G25/27 is the natural resistance of the wheel that differs.
What I mean by natural (hardware) resistance is that when the wheel is switched off and you turn the wheel, what you are left with is the resistance the FFB motor(s) need to overcome in order to give the proper FFB response. This includes fast left/right movements, as well as how fast the motor can accelerate and decelerate. The more natural resistance it will need to overcome, the longer it takes before you feel the effects. We are talking about milliseconds or maybe even microseconds here, but it strangely does matter.

If you have read a few CSR Elite reviews, then you might have read that the wheel is very smooth. This is due to the almost lack of natural resistance, which is far lower then the G25/27. The T500 has at least twice the natural resistance of the G25 that I have (I own both G25 and T500).

The other immersion improvement comes from the way the FFB effect is transmitted from motor to rim. The CSR Elite has a very good pully system with dual V-belts that cause for smooth direct effect feel. In comparison the G25/27 still have space in between the teeth of the cogs, which in return cause you to have a natural (hardware) deadzone.

Combine the two together and the immersion is 10 times higher then a G25/27. Also it becomes much easier to respond to your car as you just feel the effects instantly. And since the CSW has the same mechanical system in the base as the CSR Elite... draw your conclusions.
Just to show off what I mean. I ended up drifting the Lotus 79 through the corner with ease in an iRacing practice session, just for the fun of it. I just knew exactly what the car was doing at all time. Combined with some CSP's for ultimate precision on the pedals... perfect!
 
For any reviewer thats has a CSR Elite AND and a CSW:

How is the FFB on the PS3/PC on the CSW GT rim compared to the CSR Elite.

The CSR Elite wheelrim is supposed to be lighter and should provide better feedback and be faster. Is this noticable?
 
HoiHman
For any reviewer thats has a CSR Elite AND and a CSW:

How is the FFB on the PS3/PC on the CSW GT rim compared to the CSR Elite.

The CSR Elite wheelrim is supposed to be lighter and should provide better feedback and be faster. Is this noticable?
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Yes, so we can extrapolate about the way a heavier GT wheel for the Elite will perform :)
 
You can also tell this when a reviewer tells you how the ClubSport Base handles the weight of the ClubSport BMW M3 GT2 rim versus the weight of the ClubSport Formula rim. ;)
 
LogiForce
You can also tell this when a reviewer tells you how the ClubSport Base handles the weight of the ClubSport BMW M3 GT2 rim versus the weight of the ClubSport Formula rim. ;)
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Yeah, but the CSR Elite wheel is even lighter than the CSW formula rim.

Still no pre-order:tdown:. Somehow i doubt if we can order tommorow after 13:00.

I'm putting my money on somewhere next week. Going on holiday by the end of next week, i hope i can order before then.
 
Raitziger
Will it blend?

Seriously...

Is BMW wheel ok without gloves?
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Of course, Fanatec wheels are made for normal gloveless usage. Else Fanatec needs to sell gloves too. ;)
Though make sure to clean it with just a damp cotton cloth (I used a wash colorless) mitten) and a tooth brush (to liven up the Alcantara hairs) from time to time to keep it fresh and clean.

Else you will get this after a month: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=257052

Here are the instructions for Alcantara cleaning (on the Alcantara site itself): www.alcantara.com/#/en/menu/the_material/maintenance/ordinary_maintenance

PDF with instructions: http://www.alcantara.com/uploadedFiles/files/maintenance_instructions.pdf
 
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Should I get the Retina Macbook Pro and the Thunderbolt Cinema Display or should I wait instead for the updated iMac? :sly:
 
Mr Latte
Simple,

How much quicker were you?
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You did not ask me but... the pedals are more the key to fast driving than the wheel. I will never forget the day I learned this lesson about driving fast... "The wheel merely points the car. The pedals make the car turn".

Last year I used a G25 for GT Academy. I placed 200+ something. This year I used the CSW with cspv2s. I placed 83rd. And with much less frustration. Sure I am a much better driver in GT compared to last year, but the HW was also part of it.
 
For what ever it's worth, I wouldn't use the CSW without gloves. You can but I wouldn't.

The Alcantara is of superb quality, a cut above what's ever been on any other wheel.
 
LogiForce
I think I can give you a general answer now.

The immersion level is considerably higher. The reason the T500 might be slower compared to a G25/27 is the natural resistance of the wheel that differs.
What I mean by natural (hardware) resistance is that when the wheel is switched off and you turn the wheel, what you are left with is the resistance the FFB motor(s) need to overcome in order to give the proper FFB response. This includes fast left/right movements, as well as how fast the motor can accelerate and decelerate. The more natural resistance it will need to overcome, the longer it takes before you feel the effects. We are talking about milliseconds or maybe even microseconds here, but it strangely does matter.

If you have read a few CSR Elite reviews, then you might have read that the wheel is very smooth. This is due to the almost lack of natural resistance, which is far lower then the G25/27. The T500 has at least twice the natural resistance of the G25 that I have (I own both G25 and T500).
Click to expand...

You might consider that a certain amount of your mentioned resistance comes from the magnet inside the motor. The bigger the motor, the bigger the magnet. And while the magnet creates resistance when the motor is switched off, it produces force when the motor is switched on.

You said, that the delivery of effects is very good on the CSR-E because of it's belt system. We read a lot about belt slip issue with this wheel. Thomas said, that this does not influence the subtile FFB effects at all. I wonder how that can be true. Thinking of a car which accelerates with a lot of wheelspin, some of the engine's power is not used for acceleration, but for producing smoke and black lines on the tarmac. You know what I mean? So when the belt is slipping, in that single moment the wheel just can't deliver the effects. They are lost. As you said, we are talking about miliseconds and most of the users won't feel it. But to say, there is no loss of FFB effects can't be true IMHO.
 
Mahnegold
You might consider that a certain amount of your mentioned resistance comes from the magnet inside the motor. The bigger the motor, the bigger the magnet. And while the magnet creates resistance when the motor is switched off, it produces force when the motor is switched on.

You said, that the delivery of effects is very good on the CSR-E because of it's belt system. We read a lot about belt slip issue with this wheel. Thomas said, that this does not influence the subtile FFB effects at all. I wonder how that can be true. Thinking of a car which accelerates with a lot of wheelspin, some of the engine's power is not used for acceleration, but for producing smoke and black lines on the tarmac. You know what I mean? So when the belt is slipping, in that single moment the wheel just can't deliver the effects. They are lost. As you said, we are talking about miliseconds and most of the users won't feel it. But to say, there is no loss of FFB effects can't be true IMHO.
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First part, you are correct. I forgot to mention that indeed.

The belt on my CSW did not slip unless I put out the max power output. Which is a factor of 4 higher then normal. In a static test I had issues turning the wheel. My rSeat's screws gave way while trying to turn the wheel, and those screws were really tightened well. Now if there was any slippage then I would have noticed it. In a long play session at max power output there was only 1cm of movement of the belt at most (noticible by the position of the text on the belt), but I did not feel it. It only happened once, smelled a tiny bit of rubber burn but that was all. So I am pretty much confident that the CSW can handle the power generated via the belts without issue.
 
Could a reviewer that has both the CSW and the CSR Elite check if the power block is the same?
 
BTW just added my video review (with plenty of gameplay from the latest pCARS build) which is on the ISR forums to Logi's review post here as well.
 
mikemav
Yes, they are.
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Thanks, that means i can use the power block from my CSR Elite, which i will keep for the xbo360.

Glad i don't need another power socket because i'm running out them:)

Now i'm gonna watch your video 👍
 
For those of you that have access to both the CSP V.1, and V.2, what is the main difference that you notice with the RC Shock?

...and RC shock dampening tactile feel aside, which one seems to more accurately convey input to game car?

Does the Load Cell appear to be the same used in V.1?

Do the V.2 brake and clutch mechanism look like they could be swapped into V.1s?

And if anyone has CSP V.1s with tuning kit installed, how does the V.2's stock springs feel/strength stack up against it?
 
JogoAsobi
For those of you that have access to both the CSP V.1, and V.2, what is the main difference that you notice with the RC Shock?

...and RC shock dampening tactile feel aside, which one seems to more accurately convey input to game car?

Does the Load Cell appear to be the same used in V.1?

Do the V.2 brake and clutch mechanism look like they could be swapped into V.1s?

And if anyone has CSP V.1s with tuning kit installed, how does the V.2's stock springs feel/strength stack up against it?
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V2 is more accurate without doubt. The load cell appears to be the same.

Edit:

It can not be swapped easily, as the distance tubes on the V1 are of the wrong size. But yeah, could be done.

I have not tried all springs on the V1, only the 30% throttle one. It is close to that but a bit weaker in my opinion, the V2 throttle spring that is. The clutch feels entirely different on the V2 though, so it is in my opinion impossible to compare. The feel differs that much.
 
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Mike I can see mods coming for the CSW.
A compatible QR adapter is all that is needed to add "branded rims" and is bound to appear. I've already seen one on ebay which looks nearly identical.

However I wonder if the "data" port on the wheel allows Fanatec to do their own dash very similar to the "Monsta" but also include Fanatec controls for wheel functions? Well Thomas?

What are the thoughts of testers on using the BMW rim with and without "rumble".
I ask just to get an impression of how a branded wheel would compare to the BMW.
 

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