Current PSN outage: Don't abuse or we lose this thread.

  • Thread starter BWX
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- What else do you wanna discuss about the outage? It's out, you can't use it, you should be able to soon. What else is there to discuss beside's how we got to this situation in the first place, which is what these 'flamewars' as you put it are about.

Why does discussion and debate have to be referred to as flamewars or bickering? Two people can have different points of view and still be rational , civil and friendly natured about it. - Decent debate is far better than reading through Premium car wishlists, and 'i want porsche' threads surely?


That's neither here nor there. The point is that we all are looking for updates about the PSN but if anybody asks about it their thread is immediately shut down and they are directed to this thread. But we come here and it's nothing but people arguing about who's opinion is correct.

Some of us don't have access to our PS3's all day (because we work) and can't check every 10 minutes to see if it's back online, so we turn to our friends at GTPlanet to keep us informed. But we have to sift through 5 pages of arguments just to find the 1 post that says "PSN is still down".


It's like the "Kaz Tweets" thread all over again. :(
 
Whoever is hacking PS3's needs to hack it so we can use a different internet browser, the 1 we have now is the most unsupported pile of excretion ive had the misfortune of ever using and the constant crashing and resetting from using it is appaling.

And no "get a pc then" is not a valid argument, I bought a state of the art console that told me I could browse the internet on my tv not find 95% of websites I use unsupported and freeze and crash on the other 5%!!!
 
That's neither here nor there. The point is that we all are looking for updates about the PSN but if anybody asks about it their thread is immediately shut down and they are directed to this thread. But we come here and it's nothing but people arguing about who's opinion is correct.

Some of us don't have access to our PS3's all day (because we work) and can't check every 10 minutes to see if it's back online, so we turn to our friends at GTPlanet to keep us informed. But we have to sift through 5 pages of arguments just to find the 1 post that says "PSN is still down".

Are you serious? ( I work too, so cool story about you working bro, write a book maybe?)
You don't have to sift through 5 pages to find is PSN is up. There will be 55 threads when it is working OR you could just type 'PSN outage' into google. My heart bleeds for you having to read through opinions on a forum of all places? WOW wouldn't expect opinions to be on a forum. sheesh who woulda thought.
 
I have a quick question to ask about the free month of PSN + network they are giving as a gift for the outage. Will it require a credit card to use the free month? The reason I wonder that is because when you buy a new card and it comes with three free months of service of Sirius/XM they usually require putting a credit card on file. This would be an odd way for Sony to handle this.
 
I have a quick question to ask about the free month of PSN + network they are giving as a gift for the outage. Will it require a credit card to use the free month? The reason I wonder that is because when you buy a new card and it comes with three free months of service of Sirius/XM they usually require putting a credit card on file. This would be an odd way for Sony to handle this.

HAHAH that would be ironic. I doubt this will be the case though.
 
I wonder, when it comes online, will it be able to handle the flood of people coming back online.
 
I actually know somebody who used the other OS feature and was quite angry at Sony for abandoning it. I don't think I've ever commented on this publicly and if he reads this, he probably won't be very pleased with me. :lol: I sympathize with him and others and understand and appreciate that they weren't happy about this decision. But in the end, I can't really blame Sony, and here's why. It's not as if they reached with silent fingers and snuffed out this feature while we were sleeping. They made it known, publicly that they were disabling this feature. If you wanted to continue to use your PS3 as a Linux platform, you were free to do so, so long as you didn't upgrade to the latest System Software. Yes, I realize this crippled the PS3 as an online gaming platform. But I would feel much more sympathy, and perhaps even the same sense of outrage, if Sony had somehow disabled this feature remotely without our consent. They didn't.

We may own the hardware, but we don't own the software. We simply enter into an agreement to use it. That's something that many people don't realize. So any of the car analogies posted above don't really apply. Intellectual property rights are tricky concepts and there's certainly no consensus as to what's right or wrong or even the grey area in between. But the fact of the matter is, when you buy a music CD or a DVD movie, you own the physical media, but you've purchased the 'right' to listen to that music or watch that movie on your own. You do not 'own' the music or the movie as such. At least, in highly simplified terms, that's the way the law is written. Whether we like it or agree with it or not.

A lifetime ago, (back in the early 80s) I used to 'trade' and copy games for 8-bit Atari computers. It seemed like everybody I knew engaged in this practice and being a young teen, I didn't see the harm. Flash ahead ten years to the early 90s and I used to do a little programming. None of my programs were commercial. And I never sold any of them even as shareware. But I considered it. During those ten years, I had grown a little older and a little wiser, and I had a better sense of scope and perspective of the world around me. And I had a moral revelation and I now have no tolerance for people who steal. Whether it's music or software or movies--whatever. I'm a big believer of intellectual property rights and I've NEVER since had issue with any kind of DRM protecting downloaded music or even video games.

I respect people have a natural curiosity and I harbor no animosity toward hackers who are curious how things work or want to tinker and make things easier or better for themselves. But by putting instructional hacks on-line for anybody to see, where people could make unscrupulous use of such tactics, you're essentially helping with a crime. Or at least potentially. It's maybe not as bad but it would be like standing in front of an ATM machine in public and shouting out a code to 'unlock' the machine. That way you don't have to worry about using that pesky card. Perhaps you're not committing a crime but if anybody would heed your advise and take the money, you could be considered and charged as an accomplice. And well you should be.

As others have mentioned, while Sony goes about rebuilding the PSN with additional security, the PSN is down as a DIRECT result of a forced intrusion. And during that time, people who work for Sony, or 3rd parties, who use the PSN are at risk of, or already are losing revenue. Sony themselves are under scrutiny and being hit with lawsuits. As a result of this, their stock price is tumbling and that means hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stock investors in Sony are losing revenue. And all as a result of a bunch of misguided twits with a misguided sense of justice. In a way, they're like a bunch of gang-bangers. Respect this, disrespect that. They have their own ideas and sub-culture which simply aren't part of the real world and the society to which the rest of us belong. If they're caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. They're not freedom fighters or 'fighting the good fight'. They're a bunch of hooligans who have caused a whole lot of trouble, on a scale so vast, it's difficult to fully comprehend.
 
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@ jjaisli

very well said :) i agree 100%

but i also gree - back to topic as i cant check neither my playstation or playstation blog for update due to being in work lol
 
but i also gree - back to topic as i cant check neither my playstation or playstation blog for update due to being in work lol

There's a sticky thread at the top of this very forum which has all the latest from the PS Blog. It will also include "LOL ITS BAK!!11" when PS Blog/Twitter updates with words to that effect.

News there. Discussion here.
 
@ jjaisli

You should win an award for Post of the Year. Nice to see a well explained/thought out opinion in this thread.
 
Are you serious? ( I work too, so cool story about you working bro, write a book maybe?)
You don't have to sift through 5 pages to find is PSN is up. There will be 55 threads when it is working OR you could just type 'PSN outage' into google. My heart bleeds for you having to read through opinions on a forum of all places? WOW wouldn't expect opinions to be on a forum. sheesh who woulda thought.

It's not so much the discussion of opinions as it is the hostility towards others opinions, as you have very clearly illustrated here. Productive discussions rarely involve personal attacks on other people. 👎

We now return you to your regularly scheduled argument.
 
I actually know somebody who used the other OS feature and was quite angry at Sony for abandoning it. I don't think I've ever commented on this publicly and if he reads this, he probably won't be very pleased with me. :lol: I sympathize with him and others and understand and appreciate that they weren't happy about this decision. But in the end, I can't really blame Sony, and here's why. It's not as if they reached with silent fingers and snuffed out this feature while we were sleeping. They made it known, publicly that they were disabling this feature. If you wanted to continue to use your PS3 as a Linux platform, you were free to do so, so long as you didn't upgrade to the latest System Software. Yes, I realize this crippled the PS3 as an online gaming platform. But I would feel much more sympathy, and perhaps even the same sense of outrage, if Sony had somehow disabled this feature remotely without our consent. They didn't.

But what if I bought a PS3 for two reasons. First, for the other OS system, and second for the flagship software title, Gran Turismo 5. How can you use both of these features which Sony used as a pitch to sale their system? There was never any reason for us to believe that it would take years for their flagship title to be released. They removed the ability for us to update our systems to run that software(GT5) and the other OS too. Its one or the other. You can't have it both ways. If they would have told us that from the start then some people would have never bought the system.

The point I'm trying to make here is Sony advertised the PS3 with certain features as a selling point. The ability to exploit the PS3 through the "other OS" was a design flaw on their part. Because of that they had to take features away from us just to cover their mistake. If properly designed, the other OS system feature should have never been a gateway to exploitation. Fail.:)
 
There's a sticky thread at the top of this very forum which has all the latest from the PS Blog. It will also include "LOL ITS BAK!!11" when PS Blog/Twitter updates with words to that effect.

News there. Discussion here.

Hey now! No text-speak allowed in here! :sly:
 
But what if I bought a PS3 for two reasons. First, for the other OS system, and second for the flagship software title, Gran Turismo 5. How can you use both of these features which Sony used as a pitch to sale their system? There was never any reason for us to believe that it would take years for their flagship title to be released. They removed the ability for us to update our systems to run that software(GT5) and the other OS too. Its one or the other. You can't have it both ways. If they would have told us that from the start then some people would have never bought the system.

The point I'm trying to make here is Sony advertised the PS3 with certain features as a selling point. The ability to exploit the PS3 through the "other OS" was a design flaw on their part. Because of that they had to take features away from us just to cover their mistake. If properly designed, the other OS system feature should have never been a gateway to exploitation. Fail.:)

As I said, I sympathize with their plight. But in the end, like it or not, and agree with it or not, Sony owns the software and it's their right to make changes as they see fit. The other O/S was taken away because there was abuse and there was potential for more abuse. Is it fair to those who didn't abuse it? No. But in the end, there were potential security risks in allowing another operating system on the PS3 that Sony was forced to eliminate. I would hardly call it a design flaw by Sony. If they were at fault for anything, it's for being naive enough to allow another operating system to be installed on a gaming platform without properly weighing the potential for licit activity.

People need to look at the bigger picture. Sony is a big corporation. They have to protect themselves and their investors. Like any big corporation. They're not there to make games or computers or radios or cars or whatever. They're there, to make...money. In the end, that's what makes the world go around. If you accept that concept, the rest falls into place. As distasteful as this may be.
 
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But what if I bought a PS3 for two reasons. First, for the other OS system, and second for the flagship software title, Gran Turismo 5. How can you use both of these features which Sony used as a pitch to sale their system? There was never any reason for us to believe that it would take years for their flagship title to be released. They removed the ability for us to update our systems to run that software(GT5) and the other OS too. Its one or the other. You can't have it both ways. If they would have told us that from the start then some people would have never bought the system.

The point I'm trying to make here is Sony advertised the PS3 with certain features as a selling point. The ability to exploit the PS3 through the "other OS" was a design flaw on their part. Because of that they had to take features away from us just to cover their mistake. If properly designed, the other OS system feature should have never been a gateway to exploitation. Fail.:)

But, as he continued to dicuss/explain, you don't own the software on the system, and its pretty standard for a EULA to include a line somewhere that includes the words "subject to change." Sony felt otherOS was a financial/security risk... and guess what?! They changed their software (for better or for worse). Are there other ways they could have fixed the problems? Probably... but they made the change, and you agreed to use the software however they dictate it be used when you opened the box and turned the PS3 on.

I could argue about whether I believe some huge group of people's driving reason for buying a PS3 was the otherOS feature but I think its best to avoid, and we've all had plenty of piracy arguments before.
 
There's a sticky thread at the top of this very forum which has all the latest from the PS Blog. It will also include "LOL ITS BAK!!11" when PS Blog/Twitter updates with words to that effect.

News there. Discussion here.

Then ill report you for breaking the AUP :sly: :P
 
That's the thing they didn't refund or compensate they just removed a feature (Other OS) and hoped no-one would say anything.

As stated, people had the choice not to update. But then again, I have said that I completely agree the disabling of "OtherOS" was quite foul.

Again, two wrongs (or in this case... two or three) don't make a right.


Your point about 1960's only affect those buisness that did segregate racially, well i argue that in today's day and age how can you protest against a company without affecting a 3rd party. There is a lot more advertising,3rd party deals etc these days.
Unfortunately sometimes there has to be collateral damage, ask George Bush about Iraq..

Unfortunate comparison. As the Iraqi invasion was waged on false premises, too. But seriously, we don't want to open that can of worms.

Either way, an idealogical war waged on the premise that an idea is worth more than your own life is fine. But when you cross that line and say that your idea is worth more than an innocent's life... that makes you the bad guy.

Extreme, but I hope you see the point.


- The thing is in my scenario much like their situation, the PSN like the Other OS feature would be removed forever, there is no chance to 'go back up' -

If that situation ever arises I would ask for a refund on my console... but I wouldn't blame Sony for it.

The thing is where is this loss of income coming from? Geohotz didn't provide a way to play pirated game. He didn't provide a way to download DLC for free. All he did was provide a way for user's who had PAID for a ps3 console, to use their own homebrew software and applications. None of which hurt Sony or a 3rd party developer? So while i'm tryin to see your point i just can't.

Uhh... did we miss one of the reasons why Sony disabled OtherOS? Non-Sony approved software running on the PS3 allow you to download and run games without the original disc. While you have the right (technically, though content providers disagree) to copy something you own for personal use, this also directly allows piracy.

Come on, who are we kidding... before Sony's latest patch, you could buy a PS3 preloaded with a whole bunch of games you don't own, and you could play them online. Publishing the root key potentially enables pirates to give their customers this and the ability to play online.

And why should Sony care? The PS2 sold by the boatload outside the US and Japan because it was cheap and because pirated games were available on every street corner.

Sony would lose no money on those pirated games directly... and they would sell more PS3s than they could build if that happened.

And yet if they hold that mentality... guess who suffers? We had a nice long discussion on this when GeoHot released the key some months ago. And a few people here know the people who suffered.

Those second stringers. The small developers. People who give you interesting and quirky games that aren't HALO/Counterstrike clones or NBA20xx.

They suffer. Big boys can shrug it off. They'll lose a few millions... but they can fire a few accountants, software development interns and marketing people... but the guys who bring us truly interesting content will go kaput... bye-bye.

And who suffers because of that? We do.


It's maybe not as bad but it would be like standing in front of an ATM machine in public and shouting out a code to 'unlock' the machine. That way you don't have to worry about using that pesky card. Perhaps you're not committing a crime but if anybody would heed your advise and take the money, you could be considered and charged as an accomplice. And well you should be.

I feel I should start a slow clap. Because that was an epically right post.

Slow-Clap.gif
 
But, as he continued to dicuss/explain, you don't own the software on the system, and its pretty standard for a EULA to include a line somewhere that includes the words "subject to change." Sony felt otherOS was a financial/security risk... and guess what?! They changed their software (for better or for worse). Are there other ways they could have fixed the problems? Probably... but they made the change, and you agreed to use the software however they dictate it be used when you opened the box and turned the PS3 on.

I could argue about whether I believe some huge group of people's driving reason for buying a PS3 was the otherOS feature but I think its best to avoid, and we've all had plenty of piracy arguments before.

What if you bought a new cell phone with cool features. Lets say one of the cool features was it could make coffee. Then some time down the road you were told that now things have changed and the phone can be used to make calls or coffee but not both. How would you feel?


As stated, people had the choice not to update. But then again, I have said that I completely agree the disabling of "OtherOS" was quite foul.

So could I run the other OS and GT5 offline too? No because GT5 requires an update to run it. That kills the other OS. What good is a gaming console that can't run the flagship title? What Sony should have stated when they first released the PS3 is, you can run it as a gaming console, or as a computer system under a OS, but not both. Then there would be no problem.

In other news, Anonymous released this statement.

2tJJ2.jpg
 
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What if you bought a new cell phone with cool features. Lets say one of the cool features was it could make coffee. Then some time down the road you were told that now things have changed and the phone can be used to make calls or coffee but not both. How would you feel?

Do you honestly think this is a valid comparison? Sony didn't just wake up one day, rub their hands together and with a maniacal laugh, decide, "Let's take away some features and SCREW everybody!" This was probably something the teams working on this debated about and labored over with their marketing department. And in the end, they decided this wouldn't be a popular decision but it was for the greater good. Because they had to protect their investors, their vendors, and other users who would be directly or indirectly affected by the potential windstorm.

As for the letter posted by 'Anonymous', they have absolutely no credibility. And they have the mentality of teenagers. They need to grow up.
 
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Are you kidding? With that example the license plates to steal fuel would PS3 equivalent of removing the serial number sticker from your controller, or painting your console a different colour. Not allowing you to do something with the console that you werent able to do before ( Run another operating system, eg. run a different engine. eg swappin a rotary into an old toyota that didn't come with a rotary ) Seriously mate think.

Stealing a product through a modified PS3 is illegal. The question on whether modifying a PS3 may or may not be illegal is up for debate. But as soon as that modification allows for and someone does commit a crime with it, it should be properly punished.

There is also the question of modifying the parameters on online public games. It is quite annoying not being able to play CoD4 publicly online on the PS3 because people think it is awesome to modify the game parameters. I go into a game expecting what Infinity Ward intended, not unlimited ammunition, nor full auto grenade launchers, etc. Now a private match is a completely different story; all is fair there.

I put it to you like this, You bought your PS3 knowing it had PSN, so now i discover a way where i can download stuff for free, Sony finds out and BAM takes the PSN away for good because of me...

So you can download stuff for free? You mean steal? Those products that are taken have a price for a reason. A company made them and is looking to recover their development costs and make some kind profit off of the product. Occasionally, a developer will decide the good publicity of a free product is worth eating the cost and loss of profit because of the later windfall it will provide.

Now whether or not you agree with this concept is a completely different topic.

The thing is where is this loss of income coming from? Geohotz didn't provide a way to play pirated game. He didn't provide a way to download DLC for free. All he did was provide a way for user's who had PAID for a ps3 console, to use their own homebrew software and applications. None of which hurt Sony or a 3rd party developer? So while i'm tryin to see your point i just can't.

While he may not have provided a way to pirate games, he certainly made it easier for people to get to the point that they could.

I actually know somebody who used the other OS feature and was quite angry at Sony for abandoning it. I don't think I've ever commented on this publicly and if he reads this, he probably won't be very pleased with me. :lol: I sympathize with him and others and understand and appreciate that they weren't happy about this decision. But in the end, I can't really blame Sony, and here's why. It's not as if they reached with silent fingers and snuffed out this feature while we were sleeping. They made it known, publicly that they were disabling this feature. If you wanted to continue to use your PS3 as a Linux platform, you were free to do so, so long as you didn't upgrade to the latest System Software. Yes, I realize this crippled the PS3 as an online gaming platform. But I would feel much more sympathy, and perhaps even the same sense of outrage, if Sony had somehow disabled this feature remotely without our consent. They didn't.

We may own the hardware, but we don't own the software. We simply enter into an agreement to use it. That's something that many people don't realize. So any of the car analogies posted above don't really apply. Intellectual property rights are tricky concepts and there's certainly no consensus as to what's right or wrong or even the grey area in between. But the fact of the matter is, when you buy a music CD or a DVD movie, you own the physical media, but you've purchased the 'right' to listen to that music or watch that movie on your own. You do not 'own' the music or the movie as such. At least, in highly simplified terms, that's the way the law is written. Whether we like it or agree with it or not.

A lifetime ago, (back in the early 80s) I used to 'trade' and copy games for 8-bit Atari computers. It seemed like everybody I knew engaged in this practice and being a young teen, I didn't see the harm. Flash ahead ten years to the early 90s and I used to do a little programming. None of my programs were commercial. And I never sold any of them even as shareware. But I considered it. During those ten years, I had grown a little older and a little wiser, and I had a better sense of scope and perspective of the world around me. And I had a moral revelation and I now have no tolerance for people who steal. Whether it's music or software or movies--whatever. I'm a big believer of intellectual property rights and I've NEVER since had issue with any kind of DRM protecting downloaded music or even video games.

I respect people have a natural curiosity and I harbor no animosity toward hackers who are curious how things work or want to tinker and make things easier or better for themselves. But by putting instructional hacks on-line for anybody to see, where people could make unscrupulous use of such tactics, you're essentially helping with a crime. Or at least potentially. It's maybe not as bad but it would be like standing in front of an ATM machine in public and shouting out a code to 'unlock' the machine. That way you don't have to worry about using that pesky card. Perhaps you're not committing a crime but if anybody would heed your advise and take the money, you could be considered and charged as an accomplice. And well you should be.

As others have mentioned, while Sony goes about rebuilding the PSN with additional security, the PSN is down as a DIRECT result of a forced intrusion. And during that time, people who work for Sony, or 3rd parties, who use the PSN are at risk of, or already are losing revenue. Sony themselves are under scrutiny and being hit with lawsuits. As a result of this, their stock price is tumbling and that means hundreds of thousands, if not millions of stock investors in Sony are losing revenue. And all as a result of a bunch of misguided twits with a misguided sense of justice. In a way, they're like a bunch of gang-bangers. Respect this, disrespect that. They have their own ideas and sub-culture which simply aren't part of the real world and the society to which the rest of us belong. If they're caught, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. They're not freedom fighters or 'fighting the good fight'. They're a bunch of hooligans who have caused a whole lot of trouble, on a scale so vast, it's difficult to fully comprehend.

Fantastic post! 👍

As I said, I sympathize with their plight. But in the end, like it or not, and agree with it or not, Sony owns the software and it's their right to make changes as they see fit. The other O/S was taken away because there was abuse and there was potential for more abuse. Is it fair to those who didn't abuse it? No. But in the end, there were potential security risks in allowing another operating system on the PS3 that Sony was forced to eliminate. I would hardly call it a design flaw by Sony. If they were at fault for anything, it's for being naive enough to allow another operating system to be installed on a gaming platform without properly weighing the potential for licit activity.

People need to look at the bigger picture. Sony is a big corporation. They have to protect themselves and their investors. Like any big corporation. They're not there to make games or computers or radios or cars or whatever. They're there, to make...money. In the end, that's what makes the world go around. If you accept that concept, the rest falls into place. As distasteful as this may be.

It seems Sony originally adding that feature was more of a goodwill gesture towards users. When a few users started abusing the feature, Sony decided it was better to remove the feature than deal with the can of worms the feature could have opened. What's the saying , a few bad apples . . .

What if you bought a new cell phone with cool features. Lets say one of the cool features was it could make coffee. Then some time down the road you were told that now things have changed and the phone can be used to make calls or coffee but not both. How would you feel?

Pretty good because I do not like coffee. :lol: But then there would be the question of why did I buy a phone that could make coffee . . .

More seriously though, the removal of a feature is never good, unless a better feature is implemented. But I can see why Sony removed the feature, it allowed for theft. In Sony's eyes, it was easier to cut the head off, instead of a hand, to prevent the theft from continuing to occur.
 
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Do you honestly think this is a valid comparison? Sony didn't just wake up one day, rubbed their hands together and with a maniacal laugh, decided, "Let's take away some features and SCREW everybody!" This was probably something the teams working on this debated about and labored over with their marketing department. And in the end, they decided this wouldn't be a popular decision but it was for the greater good. Because they had to protect their investors, their vendors, and other users who would be directly or indirectly affected by the potential windstorm.

There is no debate to the fact that Sony had to take action on this issue. But we had to pay the price for a hole in their design that they failed to foresee. That's my point. They failed to see the "GeoHot" exploit during the design process.
 
As for the letter posted by 'Anonymous', they have absolutely no credibility. And they have the mentality of teenagers. They need to grow up.

Well - As annoying as anonymous may seem to some people, I do no, for ONE second, believe the "file found" claim by Sony - I call BS..

As for credibility - HBGary case?.. Yeah well - each to his own and all....
 
I'm not saying that I wouldn't be upset over something like that if it happened to a feature I used, but regardless of how it makes me, or you, or anyone else feel, they took action that was within their rights by the software agreement you agreed to follow.
 
I'm not saying that I wouldn't be upset over something like that if it happened to a feature I used, but regardless of how it makes me, or you, or anyone else feel, they took action that was within their rights by the software agreement you agreed to follow.

I don't believe that agreement was on the outside of the box when I purchased my $600 fat 80gig which failed in 13 months.:)

od_netstatus_off.gif
 
For crying out loud :D

1. The Anon link announced by Sony is on the SOE server from which the Facebook details were taken.

2. Other than presumption there is no link between Anon and the PSN outage.

3. 1 & 2 are entirely differing occurences. They are not related. They never were.

4. Read 3 again!

While I'm ranting... regional law has nothing to do with Sony protecting its copyright on chips or disks, PSN (as with XBL) is only legally available in territories who have signed the Berne Convention which DOES specifically cover digital property.

Now breathe :D
 
There is no debate to the fact that Sony had to take action on this issue. But we had to pay the price for a hole in their design that they failed to foresee. That's my point. They failed to see the "GeoHot" exploit during the design process.

It's very easy to stand back and criticize this after the fact. NO system will ever be completely hack-proof. But rather than fight an on-going and potentially losing battle, tit-for tat with additional patches, over a period of months and even years, as other hackers would have continued to find more holes and cracks, Sony just cut the head off the horse. It really was a no win situation for them, no matter what they did.


Well - As annoying as anonymous may seem to some people, I do no, for ONE second, believe the "file found" claim by Sony - I call BS..

As for credibility - HBGary case?.. Yeah well - each to his own and all....

As part owner of a small logistics company with 50 people, that competes and struggles every day against global players in the same industry with tens of the thousands of employees, I'm very well aware of the kinds of abuses and tactics big corporations use. It's a cut-throat world out there. And very unfair. So I'm certainly mindful of the kind of philosophy that would spawn such an organization, and the kind of ideology to question authority and keep us honest skeptics. But Anonymous are a bunch of rogues. I would no more trust them than my worst enemy. Simply because they don't answer to anybody. They see themselves as above the law and guided only by their own moral code. Whatever it is.
 
I don't believe that agreement was on the outside of the box when I purchased my $600 fat 80gig which failed in 13 months.:)

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What are you trying to say? You quote a comment about removing features and complain about your ps3 dying, two totally different things. Are you mad the ps3 died? Maybe all people don't understand this, but there is always an inherent risk that an electronic device can fail, you just have to hope it is within the warranty when it does. But it is up to the consumer to weigh that risk and decide if it is worth the purchase to them.
 
You know what? This thread is pathetic - absolutely pathetic. All it is comprised of is people spouting rubbish that makes for a tedious and repetetive read. All this thread should have been for is genuine information regarding the PSN outage and what's happening with it. Instead we have a collective of keyboard warriors 'willy waving' with bigger claims of knowledge than the previous person. The last thread got closed due to how off topic it went. Wether the intention here is to discuss the outage i don't know, but it sure doesn't come across that way. If the topic of the outage had been fully adhered to then it would be no more than 2 pages long, holding genuine information about what's happening.
 
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