DAE think ranking should be separated by assists used?

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No, it's not elitist of me at all. It's independent thought. What you're looking for is a bunch of sheep to follow your dictums Johnny. It';s elitist of you to suggest that others should have their scores locked down if they don't play by your (I didn't say Polyphony Digital or Sony) your rules

Johhny said: "So anyone can use whatever benefits them to earn their money, but if you want to compete on the world stage, you do it with ABS only. Simple."
 
No, it's not elitist of me at all. It's independent thought. What you're looking for is a bunch of sheep to follow your dictums Johnny. It';s elitist of you to suggest that others should have their scores locked down if they don't play by your (I didn't say Polyphony Digital or Sony) your rules

Johhny said: "So anyone can use whatever benefits them to earn their money, but if you want to compete on the world stage, you do it with ABS only. Simple."
Thanks for the quote because that's a good example. GT advertises itself as a "simulator" not a driving "game". It makes perfect sense that in a worldwide TT you use "simulator" settings to measure who is the "best", not "game" settings. SRF is "game" setting and it's purpose is to help beginners and less skilled drivers be more consistent and to make the game easier for them. But SRF has nothing to do with "simulation", it's a magic invisible hand that makes you faster, beyond the physics of the car/game engine and logically shouldn't be in measuring who are the best of the best in GT.

And with the addition of sorting options which I have advocated many, many times, anyone can compare their laptimes to anyone else with whatever aids they use or do not use, just as we did with GT5 through Milouse's website.
 
SRF is just like auto-aim on a FPS!

I don't care to be top as it would be virtually impossible. Just a fair playing field, and a filter would satisfy that.
 
This is the way i see the driving aid issue in three points:
-SRF on = a separate driving physics engine compared SRF = off. Thus, there should be a separate leader board or at least a filter.

-traction control, stability management (breaking), and abs make fast drivers slower, thus, it shouldn't matter about those aids being in time trials. That said a filter would be nice so that like minded drivers can see where they stand on the leader board.

-My second statement is only true where tuning is not allowed: In the GT series (such as in gt5) what has happened is that people have made unstable tunes and then made them stable again with driving aids. The right combination has the general effect of being faster then nil driving aids in the GT series.
 
In fact, it's a perfect example of your elitist attitude Johhny

Johhny said: "And with the addition of sorting options which I have advocated many, many times, anyone can compare their laptimes to anyone else with whatever aids they use or do not use, just as we did with GT5 through Milouse's website."

With the officious restrictions you and your liked-minded gAmERs seek to engage, no one using aids (TCS< SRF, etc.) could compare their times, as they wouldn't be represented in the leaderboard values, so your contention is simply bull.

Johhny said (previously): "Allow any and all aids in TT's, but the leaderboards only show times set with ABS=1. So anyone can use whatever benefits them to earn their money, but if you want to compete on the world stage, you do it with ABS only. Simple."
 
@xiando If you're looking for elitist posts you might want to start by searching this forum for the word Megane.

Hint: they're all posted by you
Um sorry? Why, because I posted my time? Because I noted that people who complain about the use of SRF and other aids and then used the R18 in Superlap 2 and pulled 290 hp off the car using the limiter are hypocrites?

Yeah...yeah... sniffle wahh. I'ze a litist. lol. as if.
 
Whining about something the game let them do. The same thing you're accusing the folks of doing here.

Your definition, not mine.
 
Whining about something the game let them do. The same thing you're accusing the folks of doing here.

Your definition, not mine.

No, not at all. You must be cognitively impaired. I stated that IF you are one of the people who whine about SRF and then use the limiter on a car like the R18 to strip 290 HP when running in a race that calls for a 550 max PP car, then by your own rules about "aids", you are cheating. Anyone else is fully justified, since PD made them legal for use, just like TCS, SRF, etc.
 
It's funny how people converse over the Internet, isn't it? Would you tell someone across the table that they're cognitively impaired?

If you can't stick to your argument without insulting everyone you're having a "discussion" with I'd rather not try and get my point across to you. I'll try one last time, speaking slowly. For my own sake, because I'm cognitively impaired.

You do realize that we were in this thread simply talking about what we feel would make the game better right? And that nobody ever made a demand that the developer change the game to our wishes? Sure, I'd love SRF to be disabled like it is in GT5 but if they don't change it then I'll just deal with it. You realize we're discussing a video game right? Lighten up.
 
I don't insult everyone I have discussions with here/elsewhere. Only those who propose Draconian ideas about competition rules and who often post insinuations about those who use aids and in general act like jerks about their "superior" racing provenance. I'm just giving back in kind, since that's the language I see most often from your camp. If you can't get that, sorry bud. I'm not looking for "friends-at-any-cost". Been done that got little for it won't do it again.

Like you, I'm looking out for myself and those I care about. And yes, I totally get that this is just a game. That's the underlying premise upon which I entered this fray. And that's the basic problem with you guys. You don't. You see this as your racing app, designed as a stand-in for rl racing, whether because you're too young to do rl racing, you do rl racing and use this to keep your chops up off season, or you're so old or have sustained injuries that prevent you from racing rl. If you want to use it for that, fine, No one's stopping you. But you ignore the fact that the other 99% of licensees are not aspiring race drivers, current race drivers, or retired rl race drivers, and in most cases, they aren't officious jerks who want rules changed for Polyphony Digital designed, open competitions that benefit any player who can compete within the rules that Polyphony Digital set, not those that some small minority of overly serious game players set. You want comity, then show some yourselves. You want responses like mine, then keep on posting Draconian rules of racing conduct for others and in general acting like a bunch of soviet style commissars.

My advise? Lighten up yourselves and I will too. I don't post like this to everyone.
 
I don't insult everyone I have discussions with here/elsewhere. Only those who propose Draconian ideas about competition rules and who often post insinuations about those who use aids and in general act like jerks about their "superior" racing provenance. I'm just giving back in kind, since that's the language I see most often from your camp. If you can't get that, sorry bud. I'm not looking for "friends-at-any-cost". Been done that got little for it won't do it again.

Like you, I'm looking out for myself and those I care about. And yes, I totally get that this is just a game. That's the underlying premise upon which I entered this fray. And that's the basic problem with you guys. You don't. You see this as your racing app, designed as a stand-in for rl racing, whether because you're too young to do rl racing, you do rl racing and use this to keep your chops up off season, or you're so old or have sustained injuries that prevent you from racing rl. If you want to use it for that, fine, No one's stopping you. But you ignore the fact that the other 99% of licensees are not aspiring race drivers, current race drivers, or retired rl race drivers, and in most cases, they aren't officious jerks who want rules changed for Polyphony Digital designed, open competitions that benefit any player who can compete within the rules that Polyphony Digital set, not those that some small minority of overly serious game players set. You want comity, then show some yourselves. You want responses like mine, then keep on posting Draconian rules of racing conduct for others and in general acting like a bunch of soviet style commissars.

My advise? Lighten up yourselves and I will too. I don't post like this to everyone.
The jerk here is someone who refers to others that have a different opinion than their as, "jerks, soviet style commissars, cognitively impaired and draconian", when in fact, the only one acting that way is you with your, "you have to agree with my way or you are an idiot" philosophy. You can't make a point with logic or intelligence, so you resort to shouting and rage.

Let's try this speaking calmly to each other. I'll lay out my argument logically.

GT advertises itself as a "driving simulator". Kaz wants to build a driving "simulator" not a game. This is well known. GTAcademy attempts to turn "sim racers" into real racers, not "game players" into real racers. You with me so far? This is the basis of the entire franchise. Kaz's secret dream that he'll probably never voice, is to have an F1 or other high profile race series champion, come from his "driving simulator". It would be the crowning achievement of his life, far more meaningful to him than any money or glory he gets from the GT franchise.

TT's are the training ground for GTAcademy, which is after all, just a TT. They are supposed to showcase the best talent in this "driving simulator" in the world, competing head to head under the same conditions and without SRF.

Now to SRF. SRF is a magic invisible hand operating outside the laws of physics, the helps keep you on the track when you've exceeded the limits of the "driving simulator" It's Need for Speed or Ridge Racer mode. It is the opposite of "simulation", it's "arcade", it turns GT into a "game" not a "simulator" How does one justify the locked use of SRF in TT's in a "driving simulator Time Trial"?

Making the game accessible to noobs and less skilled pilots isn't a reason for including it in TT's IMO. Their overall result doesn't change, since most people will use SRF and the times are set in the TT's to reflect the availability of SRF. If they were to finish 40,000th, they'll still finish 40,000th since it's available to everyone.

They can't win gold without it? Sure they can, PD controls the gold times, just set the times to reflect non-SRF driving so everyone can win if that's the goal, the same thing they did on most TT's in GT5 and it worked just fine, and I don't recall a single voice asking for SRF on Time Trials ever.

Still can't make the time without SRF? No problem, use it, win your prizes, but you don't get on the leaderboard for that time. It is a "driving simulator" after all, not an "arcade game", and if you have to use arcade physics to get on the leaderboard, it should be an incentive for you to learn how to drive better and play the game more often to improve your skills.

Egads, no, I can't get on the leaderboard with SRF even though I can win the prizes? Oh God, my life is over, how will I make it through the day?!
Watering down events for the sole purpose of letting everyone "win", makes the events far less meaningful. This is the path PD has chosen, you can see it on Offline Career Mode where you can win events with 100 less PP and two tire grades and no difficulty slider to increase the competition level. IMO it makes GT6 much more of a "game" than a "simulator" and the series is worse off for it.
 
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Still whining aye Johhny? What's wrong? I've seen far worse from those in your camp and it's routine behavior from those in your camp of officious commissars. Don't like it, then don't employ the tactics that generate a likewise response. Otherwise all bets off. You get what you give.
 
Why do not assist having influences on pp?
This way i think that is the solution to erase purists frustrations.
add assists must give less hp or add kg... no?

I m a french canadian, scuse me if my english is not perfect.
 
Still whining aye Johhny? What's wrong? I've seen far worse from those in your camp and it's routine behavior from those in your camp of officious commissars. Don't like it, then don't employ the tactics that generate a likewise response. Otherwise all bets off. You get what you give.
What I gave you was a concerted effort at a logical argument for my position. Try to respond to my position logically and refute it with logic devoid of emotion and hyperbole. I gave you the courtesy, try and return it, that's how discussions work.

Otherwise as others have mentioned, I'll just write you off as a troll, uninterested in give and take debate, and only interested in hearing yourself talk (type) and stirring the pot.
 
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, it just became apparent to me after doing the new set of seasonals, so I'm just curious what people think about this. After 10-15 laps of attempts in the FT-1 @ Laguna, I was able to put down a 1:32.428 with SRF off, TCS off, ABS 1, and no Active Steering or driving line. There is still definitely room for improvement there, but I don't see how it is physically possible to get sub 1:27 laps without the use of major assists such as SRF. I really feel there is no point putting people who use no assists in the same ranking tree as people using them, because it's in no way an accurate representation of rank.

Thoughts?

Is KudosPrime plugged into our events, like mygranturismo used to be? *checks* Ah, it isn't.

Mygranturismo.net was fantastic when it was plugged in, I don't think it could do live events, but if you set your best lap, then checked there once the eent had closed, it was great, because you could filter down to having the same settings, even the same country as other people.

I would often be either no. 1 or very close to the top when I added all of my settings, wheel, car, and especially country, felt more satisfying to know where I was ranked among a dozen people all on the same settings with the same car... I guess current TTs force us all the use the same car, but, in the future when the TTs may be open again, Kudos will hopefully be able to filter down the results like mygrantuismo.net used to.
 
What if, there will be a separate option to enable this option for online, offline career and seasonal events : Every each assist used will add 5 PP ( TCS, ASM, AS, ABS ), SRF adds 20 PP, now that will be fun :lol: That way all will think twice to use assist for competitive time trial or races online :lol:, and to give further incentive, for every each assist NOT USED, credits / prize money will increase by 10%, SRF NOT USED adds 25% - on top of login bonus.

Sounds extreme or elitist :lol:
 
What if, there will be a separate option to enable this option for online, offline career and seasonal events : Every each assist used will add 5 PP ( TCS, ASM, AS, ABS ), SRF adds 20 PP, now that will be fun :lol: That way all will think twice to use assist for competitive time trial or races online :lol:, and to give further incentive, for every each assist NOT USED, credits / prize money will increase by 10%, SRF NOT USED adds 25% - on top of login bonus.

Sounds extreme or elitist :lol:

Unless their calculation is perfect, it'll be either a waste of time (if they undervalue SRF) or make it more difficult for lesser pilots (if they overvalue SRF) making it even more difficult to gold the events. I'd rather PD avoid trying to figure out how aids help or hurt performance:lol:

Sort options is the cheapest and most effective way to go if it's done right. All the data is there. @Milouse did it on his own time in GT5, there's no reason why PD can't do the same for GT6, or just throw some money at Milouse and get him to do it. Once again, PD doesn't realize how small and cheap changes like this, working with stuff that's already in the game, increases the life and playability of the game.

Right now you have everyone competing from around the world in one giant competition. You might be a decent pilot and finish at 400 or 2000 or 10000. But when you break it down and find out you are 400th overall, but 8th in your country and first in your country without the use of aids, it might give you and others a reason to compete and use the game more:idea:. The field to beat is now much smaller and you have bragging rights for the whole country. Or maybe you rank 10000 but you make the top 100 of your country and top 20 without ABS. Regardless of the scenario, being able to break it down into smaller and more meaningful segments adds to playability and the life of the game.

Add to this a system that records a unique lap time for you based on every possible combination of driver aids and now you can compete on multiple boards. I don't use SRF for example, I'd prefer to run with no aids at all, but if I could record a lap for each method, I'd do that and compete on two different leaderboards. Throw in an ABS only leaderboard and I'd make it 3. 👍👍
 
I haven't done all of the latest GT6 superlap TT :( going to wait for my login bonus and just go for gold - need the money for my garage :lol:.
 
I understand the debate with SRF. I had never tried it before and only used abs as an aid, and didnt understand how people were so much faster until I read about it and now I'm in the top 50 or so. The way I see it is if you are fast without SRF then you should be fast with it (among the top). I dont think there should be an argument about who uses it and who doesnt. If you want to then go for it, If you think you are fast without it then you should be able to be on the leaderboard. .....just my thought.
 
i drive with nothing on either ; not even ABS now ( 1.04 before was a pain unless you could change bias )
i dont like seing lap times made by people with SRF and Active stearing compared to people that use their own skill to do the job.

i dont want to have to compete in an arcade TT when i bought a game on wich it says ' the real driving simulator ' i would like to do TT as a simulation , and only be compared to people that use the same assists ( or none )
if people dont understand how TT should be treated ; they might want ot have a look at TT in forza series especially the last 2 ... every track ; performance brackets and mode hade TTs you could break it all down


here its just a massiv pot , nothing is logical , and i dont car if i am 4sec faster on LS and 15sec faster min on the Ring by using something that ruins my game play exeperience and stops me from enjoying a not so bad simulation.

thank you
 
I understand the debate with SRF. I had never tried it before and only used abs as an aid, and didnt understand how people were so much faster until I read about it and now I'm in the top 50 or so. The way I see it is if you are fast without SRF then you should be fast with it (among the top). I dont think there should be an argument about who uses it and who doesnt. If you want to then go for it, If you think you are fast without it then you should be able to be on the leaderboard. .....just my thought.
The SRF debate isn't about fast with it or fast without it. There are no sort options in GT6. In GT5 we had @Milouse with mygranturismo.net providing us with all the sort options we could ever want to compare to friends and how they drive. SRF available forces you to drive with it on to compete with your friends list and with everyone else because you can't put up a competitive time without it. Adding in differing sort options allows everyone in the world to compete in the way that best suits them. SRF on or off. ABS on or off. Against your own country only. Stick vs. Wheel etc. Right now it's just one big melting pot and a huge lost opportunity for PD to add many more layers to the game play just by coordinating stats, something that should be cheap and easy, given it was done for GT5 by a third party.
 
agree with @Johnnypenso , PD should do something about it, fast.
They should understand that when the community is used to the online filters @Milouse gave us in gt5, or other features we had like copying setups etc , and they miss all that in gt6, that's just disappointing their customer base to say the least.
Never before has a "new and improved" product, missed the features of an earlier product. Especially the popular ones. Their Marketing Dept. should already know that.
What goes up, PD, goes down too...
 
Yes I do think that there must be some kind of filter because I like to enjoy the real GT6 physics of the cars and by that I mean SRF Off. However I struggle to get Gold at TT events and must tweak my car to better suit my kind style of driving and get that gold by miliseconds away only to find out that the top leaderboard has like 10 seconds lower than me! I would like to rank among others that use the same setup like me and are playing the simulator part of GT6 and not the arcade as previously mentioned by @Greg330im .

Another thing, where the h*ll is the Copy Tune option?? Is that so difficult to implement it like GT5?? I was waiting for a patch but nothing and it gets really annoying!
 
I'm disappointed by SRF, it's like as someone already said ' an invisible hand that corrects your car line when it's loosing grip', something like that should not even exist :banghead:.

I'm having fun with the latest TT on Trial Montain, lapped with all aids off ( except ABS 1 ) a good 1.36.304, then after a lot of days i said to myself let's try SRF on... lol it was like driving on Super Mario Kart after taking a star :cool: ! I stopped myself before ending that lap ( i was already almost 2 seconds faster ) and i quitted laughing and thinking why should i even use some stupid mindless aid like that.

You know what? I seek a challenge in this game, and if my 'search' means losing it doesn't matter i'll keep trying with my personal rules ( ALL aids off, except ABS 1 ), and laughing to the mass of sheeps that for the sake of becoming the fastest one use some pretty unrealistic AID that will modify the way you will drive your car in such a drastic way.

So... yes it would be cool having a different leaderboards.

Shame on you SRF users ! :lol:
 
I'm disappointed by SRF, it's like as someone already said ' an invisible hand that corrects your car line when it's loosing grip', something like that should not even exist :banghead:.

I'm having fun with the latest TT on Trial Montain, lapped with all aids off ( except ABS 1 ) a good 1.36.304, then after a lot of days i said to myself let's try SRF on... lol it was like driving on Super Mario Kart after taking a star :cool: ! I stopped myself before ending that lap ( i was already almost 2 seconds faster ) and i quitted laughing and thinking why should i even use some stupid mindless aid like that.

You know what? I seek a challenge in this game, and if my 'search' means losing it doesn't matter i'll keep trying with my personal rules ( ALL aids off, except ABS 1 ), and laughing to the mass of sheeps that for the sake of becoming the fastest one use some pretty unrealistic AID that will modify the way you will drive your car in such a drastic way.

So... yes it would be cool having a different leaderboards.

Shame on you SRF users ! :lol:


I challenge you to turn off ABS...

Reality is the top guys playing this game turn on SRF, theres no shame in wanting to compete with others on a level playing field, the game developers have messed up here, don't blame the users.
 
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