Datamined car list

[Suzuki-Cara]

I feel like Duplicates wouldn't be as bad had PD not decided to be so Skyline-heavy in earlier installments.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to see Six different Honda Civics or Toyota Corollas as much as the next guy. But there's enough of those models out there that should be included in the game, like the AE92, the AE111, the EG hatch, and even EP3 hatch.

Should every generation Civic or Corolla be added in? Probably not.

Edit: How the wagovan civic has yet to appear, I'll never know.

 

[Nielsen]

Well, I'm hearing a lot of duplicate talk, so I thought I would give my 2 cents.

To note on duplicates, in the case of things like the Integras and Clios. While there are differences, they are quite minor that a normal person wouldn't pick up on. So, I would classify those as duplicates.

You would classify them as duplicates. That’s the crux of the problem in this discussion. Too many people impose their own viewpoints as facts. Again, duplicate means identical. These cars are not identical! Very similar? Yes, but not duplicates.

 

[05XR8]

That's why I clumped all the GT-Rs and anything with an 86 in its name/code Just to point out do we need them all? I mean, i'm fine with all those 40 duplicates. It is what it is. however, if we only had one R35 and only one Corvette, do we need the '63, '69, '89, etc? Yes, they are different, but could only one suffice and we get other cars? It's more than the "Why not both?" cliche.

 

[SestoScudo]

I do wish nissan r390 gt1 from 1997 returns because the 97 and 98 are really different.

 

[samppa_944]

So, uh, which were the other tracks found through data mining again?

Supposedly besides Watkins Glen: Road Atlanta, Red Rock Valley and Grand Valley.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

You would classify them as duplicates. That’s the crux of the problem in this discussion. Too many people impose their own viewpoints as facts. Again, duplicate means identical. These cars are not identical! Very similar? Yes, but not duplicates.

There's truth to that, some people seem to just place even just being the same model as the same car. Basically saying a 1965 Mustang is the same as a 1985 Mustang, despite them being on complete different chassis, using a different engine, different suspension, definitely not the same interior, and the technology won't be different. Which I find absolutely ridiculous. When people are mentioning duplicates, they actually mean variation.

however, if we only had one R35 and only one Corvette, do we need the '63, '69, '89, etc? Yes, they are different, but could only one suffice and we get other cars? It's more than the "Why not both?" cliche.

For me, heck no! That would mean in an alternative world with GT7, if I wanted to drive a Mustang; I may only be able to drive the 2015 GT. If I wanted to drive the 1969 Boss 429, then tough luck; I can't. Nor not being able to do custom one-make events, nor have fun photo ops with car families together.

 

[bduddy]

Why are duplicates a bad thing? If someone wants to drive the turbo MR2 and someone wants to drive the NA MR2, then why not just tweak a few values and add in more cars? People have gotten so caught up in stupid console war BS and finding ways to insult other games that we're losing content because of it.

 

[Techlet]

Why are duplicates a bad thing? If someone wants to drive the turbo MR2 and someone wants to drive the NA MR2, then why not just tweak a few values and add in more cars? People have gotten so caught up in stupid console war BS and finding ways to insult other games that we're losing content because of it.

With the tuning system in place, they could just slap a turbo on a MR2. There's no need to take up a car slot.

 

[Nuschel01]

There's no need to take up a car slot.

Are those limited in a video game?

 

[Techlet]

Are those limited in a video game?

Does your PS5 have infinite storage? Do devs have infinite time and money?

 

[Nuschel01]

Does your PS5 have infinite storage?

I doubt those few lines of code addressing two specs and a few settings regarding sound and other stuff to one 3D modell will make any difference.

Do devs have infinite time and money?

As if making a second spec for a car takes them more than maybe a day? And yes, PD has infinite money.

 

[Meythia]

Does your PS5 have infinite storage? Do devs have infinite time and money?

1. As long as the game fits onto the internal storage of all console models it is supposed to be running on: yes.
2. Not factually, but practically yes.

How much time does it actually tike to fill in a sheet of data that you are provided by a car manufacturer?
Ideally you would have a way to simply import these data and the game does the rest.

 

[Techlet]

How much time does it actually tike to fill in a sheet of data that you are provided by a car manufacturer?

Time and money that could be used to fill in a sheet of data for other, non-duplicate cars.

 

[AlexWilmot]

With the tuning system in place, they could just slap a turbo on a MR2. There's no need to take up a car slot.

Well... in this particular case the difference between the engines is not just slapping a turbo on, the turbo version as standard will have a lower compression and internal oil sprayers in an attempt to cool down the pistons and bore of the engine,

Also you are missing one key point on these "duplicates" a lot of people want to go into the game and drive the car they own, like the exact version, just slapping a turbo onto the 3S-GE isn't going to give you the same performance as the 3S-GTE as the turbo modification is an aftermarket variant and not a toyota part,

There's no need for your negativity on duplicates, people like to have these different variants to drive in game and even compare as standard instead of modding to what you think is correct spec.

 

[Techlet]

That's fair but it's beyond frustrating to have duplicate cars when there are glaring omissions in the car list that could have been filled. There are entire generations of the Civic missing from the game but we have two EK9s that are near identical. Same situation with the Integras. And the Corvettes. And the 911s.

The car list feels at once both bloated and empty.

Besides, how much of these minute differences is even modeled/simulated in the game?

 

[tankuroded]

With the tuning system in place, they could just slap a turbo on a MR2. There's no need to take up a car slot.

Well... in this particular case the difference between the engines is not just slapping a turbo on, the turbo version as standard will have a lower compression and internal oil sprayers in an attempt to cool down the pistons and bore of the engine,

Also you are missing one key point on these "duplicates" a lot of people want to go into the game and drive the car the own, like the exact version, just slapping a turbo onto the 3S-GE isn't going to give you the same performance as the 3S-GTE as the turbo modification is an aftermarket variant and not a toyota part,

There's no need for your negativity on duplicates, people like to have these different variants to drive in game and even compare as standard instead of modding to what you think is correct spec.

Also note that the 993 Carrera RS (todo: check the 964) does not allow you to put a turbo on it (to ostensibly turn it into a 993 Turbo). In previous games where cars have their NA and turbo variants are available, you also can't turbo a NA trim of that car.

 

[AlexWilmot]

That's fair but it's beyond frustrating to have duplicate cars when there are glaring omissions in the car list that could have been filled. There are entire generations of the Civic missing from the game but we have two EK9s that are near identical. Same situation with the Integras. And the Corvettes. And the 911s.

The car list feels at once both bloated and empty.

Besides, how much of these minute differences is even modeled/simulated in the game?

1) Please learn how to reply so people can see the conversation and/or get notified about your responses.

2) There are differences as these "near identical" cars have different gear ratios, different body trims most of the time, different mods you can or can't do including engine swaps, different suspension setups etc.

3) by your comments the game clearly isn't for you, it is for the some who do understand and want these "duplicates"

 

[tankuroded]

2) There are differences as these "near identical" cars have different gear ratios, different body trims most of the time, different mods you can or can't do including engine swaps, different suspension setups etc.

There's also different OEM wheels, on both the Clio and the 1st gen 86s (and I'm convinced the reason Today's Special rims from GT4 didn't return in later games is because manufacturers aren't exactly happy with their brand's hubcaps appearing on rival brand's cars, before anyone brings that up).

 

[Techlet]

There are differences as these "near identical" cars have different gear ratios, different body trims most of the time, different mods you can or can't do including engine swaps, different suspension setups etc.

All of which you can set to your heart's desire with custom tuning parts. PD should also open up visual and performance mods and engine swaps for the benefit of all cars instead of locking them to specific ones. What else do you want to bring up? That one duplicate has lights on the dash that are a different shade of red/green/blue or a window switch with a different plastic texture?

I think it's more important to have a car list that covers each generation of a particular model before drilling down into different trim levels or model years of the same generation.

There's also different OEM wheels, on both the Clio and the 1st gen 86s (and I'm convinced the reason Today's Special rims from GT4 didn't return in later games is because manufacturers aren't exactly happy with their brand's hubcaps appearing on rival brand's cars, before anyone brings that up).

I mean PD could give the player a selection of different OEM wheels. It's one of the more frequently requested customization features. You can do it in other racing games.

I won't hold my breath for more customization options from PD considering they've managed to turn every brake caliper green in this patch.

 

[AlexWilmot]

All of which you can set to your heart's desire with custom tuning parts.

It's gone over your head,
Some people want to drive the standard cars and not have to modify them, some people want the standard car and version that they have or dream to have in the game,

Stop gate keeping, oh you can't have that version of car because its a waste of time and resources they could put in other areas blah blah blah, Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is incorrect or useless, Like in our other confrontations it sound's like a you problem.

 

[dacc10]

That's the thing, they should be able to spend time on fictional cars now while having a lot of real-life cars models to. I don't think we should be looking at fictional cars as the problem, but rather question what's going on behind of the scenes. As I said above, something is not adding up here.

Sure, but there should be a limit to that. Let's say, they should be allowed to add 1 fictional car, in an update with 9 cars. If they keep adding 3 per update, then we can't afford to get 1 fictional car, whatever it may be, every single update.

Well, I can think of one, more menus or options to click through. You would also have to apply this to every car with a GT3 or GT4 variant, not just the fictional ones.

I meant the cars that change nothing compared to their non-Gr.# version (like the LM55 for example). It should be easy to add an option in the car setup page to make it a Gr.# car. Had they done that, that button could also be available to make a normal road car, into a Gr.4 spec'd car for example.

Anyway, there's no point in dropping the Gr.3/Gr.4 cars we have now, they're already modelled. You could convert some to be real-life counterparts like the Ford Mustang GT4 and BMW M4 GT4, but that's it.

Sure, there's no point in getting rid of any car already in the game. They are there, and the resources to model them has already been spent. It's just that in the future, they need to fix de focus on car that people want.

You would classify them as duplicates. That’s the crux of the problem in this discussion. Too many people impose their own viewpoints as facts. Again, duplicate means identical. These cars are not identical! Very similar? Yes, but not duplicates.

You are also doing so. With the difference that you are absolutely wrong, by considering cars with small facelifts "different".

That's why I clumped all the GT-Rs and anything with an 86 in its name/code Just to point out do we need them all? I mean, i'm fine with all those 40 duplicates. It is what it is. however, if we only had one R35 and only one Corvette, do we need the '63, '69, '89, etc? Yes, they are different, but could only one suffice and we get other cars? It's more than the "Why not both?" cliche.

Comparing each generation of the Corvette is not the same as comparing differences in cars that got a small facelift. The Vettes are not duplicates, the Clios, the Supras ('19,'20), the Civics are, as they have very small differences.

There's truth to that, some people seem to just place even just being the same model as the same car. Basically saying a 1965 Mustang is the same as a 1985 Mustang, despite them being on complete different chassis, using a different engine, different suspension, definitely not the same interior, and the technology won't be different. Which I find absolutely ridiculous. When people are mentioning duplicates, they actually mean variation.

That's actually the argument of pro-duplicate people. They use that sort of exaggeration, acting like if people who criticize the 2 Clios for being duplicates, also consider every generation of whatever car as "the same". And, in fact, it's not, and as I said previously, focus on different generations instead of just damn facelifts.

Why are duplicates a bad thing? If someone wants to drive the turbo MR2 and someone wants to drive the NA MR2, then why not just tweak a few values and add in more cars? People have gotten so caught up in stupid console war BS and finding ways to insult other games that we're losing content because of it.

Because that's just an easy way to boost the car count, by pretty much doing nothing, when the game needs is more variety, not more variants of an existing car.

Though, the option for the engine could be given as a "trim" option when you buy the car. But of course that wouldn't be convenient, as that wouldn't count for the final car list.

Well... in this particular case the difference between the engines is not just slapping a turbo on, the turbo version as standard will have a lower compression and internal oil sprayers in an attempt to cool down the pistons and bore of the engine,

Also you are missing one key point on these "duplicates" a lot of people want to go into the game and drive the car they own, like the exact version, just slapping a turbo onto the 3S-GE isn't going to give you the same performance as the 3S-GTE as the turbo modification is an aftermarket variant and not a toyota part,

There's no need for your negativity on duplicates, people like to have these different variants to drive in game and even compare as standard instead of modding to what you think is correct spec.

Then just add the engine in. No need to make it count as a "different" car to inflate the car count. With engine swaps, the sky is the limit. Imagine actually being able to buy the car, and then having the ability to buy the separate engines that it can have in real life. I know, this would be too rational, and makes too much sense to be accepted, plus, it wouldn't boost the car count, which is what they (PD) want.

And let's not go there, with the "drive their own car" thing. The vast majority of players will never drive their own car in a game, because their car is too "irrelevant" in the grand scheme of the car industry, to be added to a game. People should let off of their egos, and just accept that it would be impossible to add every car that every player drives in real life. Being able to drive your specific car in a game is a nice to have for the person who owns that car, but not a priority for anyone else, as the majority of people don't want to drive your specific car (unless of course you have something rather special), and rather drive cars that are unattainable in real life.

2) There are differences as these "near identical" cars have different gear ratios, different body trims most of the time, different mods you can or can't do including engine swaps, different suspension setups etc.

3) by your comments the game clearly isn't for you, it is for the some who do understand and want these "duplicates"

2) And? Almost every car can have massively different trims/trim combinations for a single model. In a racing game, those are not important, as no one cares if the car has heated seats or a fake carbon fiber gear shifter. Many cars even have the option for different transmission, from 6 speed manual to 8 speed auto, should they add those too? A this point, might as well count the same car with different paints, as "different". Start with the DB11, which has different interior colours too.

3) The game is for who then? People who rather have 3+ versions of the same exact car (same gen) over a completely new car?

 

[AlexWilmot]

Then just add the engine in. No need to make it count as a "different" car to inflate the car count. With engine swaps, the sky is the limit. Imagine actually being able to buy the car, and then having the ability to buy the separate engines that it can have in real life. I know, this would be too rational, and makes too much sense to be accepted, plus, it wouldn't boost the car count, which is what they (PD) want.

Because it's not just an engine swop...

And let's not go there, with the "drive their own car" thing. The vast majority of players will never drive their own car in a game, because their car is too "irrelevant" in the grand scheme of the car industry, to be added to a game. People should let off of their egos, and just accept that it would be impossible to add every car that every player drives in real life. Being able to drive you specific car in a game is a nice to have for the person who owns that car, but not a priority for anyone else, as the majority of people don't want to drive your specific car (unless of course you something rather special), and rather drive cars that are unattainable in real life.

Why not? how do you know the vast majority never drive their own car in game? source? Just because you don't want to drive the car doesn't mean others don't, next please...

2) And? Almost every car can have massively different trims/trim combinations for a single model. In a racing game, those are not important, as no one cars if the car has heated seats or a fake carbon fiber gear shifter. Many cars even have the option for different transmission, from 6 speed manual to 8 speed auto, should add those too? A this point, might as well count the same car with different paints, as "different". Start with the DB11, which has different interior colours too.

3) The game is for who then? People who rather have 3+ versions of the same exact car (same gen) over a completely new car?

In your opinion it isn't important, what a poor attitude you and @Techlet show here with your comments on the game and how people play it, you know full well that colour options are not different models of cars... did you know car facelifts are different models like the EK civic's, some people want these different years and model variants to recreate races from the past, specific liveries etc.

Again just because you don't like it or actually seems like you don't understand it, doesn't mean its wasteful as you put it

 

[dacc10]

Because it's not just an engine swop...

The engine difference is the most important part. The rest is fairly unimportant by comparison.

Why not? how do you know the vast majority never drive their own car in game? source? Just because you don't want to drive the car doesn't mean others don't, next please...

It's called statistics. Ask yourself how many GT players drive a Turbo MR2 vs how many people drive a diesel Clio for example. You are banking on one very specific model that only a very limited number of players (if any) drives/has driven. Meanwhile, you would be against the addition of the engine from other variants, as a swap, because "reasons". The fact that you deny an easy, practical solution that would solve the problem for most cases, is baffling. But egos gotta ego.

And you have no idea how I play the game, and which cars I do drive or not. I actually drive a bit of everything, being only limited to the lack of decently paying events.

In your opinion it isn't important, what a poor attitude you and @Techlet show here with your comments on the game and how people play it

Meanwhile here you are telling people what they should or shouldn't say. And it's not my opinion, it's objectively not important in the context of a racing game, where variety is much more important than adding specific variants of an existing vehicle that have very little differences between them.

And the reality is, you are telling how people can play the game, by defending duplicates over new content. I can't drive a Lexus LFA (a highly demanded car) in the game because they are wasting time doing cars with facelifts. I can't drive the McLaren P1 road car (a car in the top 5 of GTP's wishlist from almost 10 years ago) because, instead of this relevant "variant" of the P1 GTR in the game, we are getting random facelifted Clios, Civics, etc.

I actually would like to see the stats from PD, to see how many players buy both versions of the facelifted cars.

 

[Techlet]

The resources sunken into modeling a 2020 Supra when the 2019 model already exists in the game could have gone into modeling a completely different car that other players might want to drive.

The current car list is not nearly exhaustive enough to justify minor model year differences (especially when most of the differences can be made up for using the customization system already in the game or potential extensions to the system that could benefit all cars, not just duplicates with slightly different front bumpers).

But hey at least race cars with different liveries no longer count as separate cars, so that's something. Maybe GT8 will have some better variety.

 

[AlexWilmot]

The engine difference is the most important part. The rest is fairly unimportant by comparison.

In your opinion but you're wrong

It's called statistics. Ask yourself how many GT players drive a Turbo MR2 vs how many people drive a diesel Clio for example. You are banking on one very specific model that only a very limited number of players (if any) drives/has driven. Meanwhile, you would be against the addition of the engine from other variants, as a swap, because "reasons". The fact that you deny an easy, practical solution that would solve the problem for most cases, is baffling. But egos gotta ego.

If it’s called statistics, provide them then.

And you have no idea how I play the game, and which cars I do drive or not. I actually drive a bit of everything, being only limited to the lack of decently paying events.

Meanwhile here you are telling people what they should or shouldn't say. And it's not my opinion, it's objectively not important in the context of a racing game, where variety is much more important than adding specific variants of an existing vehicle that have very little differences between them.

And the reality is, you are telling how people can play the game, by defending duplicates over new content. I can't drive a Lexus LFA (a highly demanded car) in the game because they are wasting time doing cars with facelifts. I can't drive the McLaren P1 road car (a car in the top 5 of GTP's wishlist from almost 10 years ago) because, instead of this relevant "variant" of the P1 GTR in the game, we are getting random facelifted Clios, Civics, etc.

You're right I don't know how you play it and I don't care, It seems you are telling people how to play it actually because the only important parts are engine swaps and these model differences are useless because of the little differences in the cars so no point in using them....

Please point out where I've said you have to play the game a certain way?

Sounds like you wish for certain cars and are getting annoyed they aren't in the game and yet taking your frustrations out on these "duplicates"... guess what don't drive them then.

 

[AlexWilmot]

What @dacc10 and @Techlet don't seem to get is if person A wants to drive a 97 honda civic and person B wants to drive a 98 honda civic, guess what both parties can be happy and drive what they want,

The game caters to a lot of people, maybe not you two, but to others it does

 

[Techlet]

Person C wants to drive an EP3 Civic but too bad, have 2 EK9s instead.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Person C wants to drive an EP3 Civic but too bad, have 2 EK9s instead.

yeah too bad go play something else then

 

[dacc10]

What @dacc10 and @Techlet don't seem to get is if person A wants to drive a 97 honda civic and person B wants to drive a 98 honda civic, guess what both parties can be happy and drive what they want,

The game caters to a lot of people, maybe not you two, but to others it does

By adding two versions of the same car, they are catering to a smaller percentage of players than if they had 2 actually different cars. Your own points bite you back m8.

Funny thing is, in your head, there are only person A and B, the rest screw them, right? What's important is to cater for a small percentage of players who care for 2 cars that barely differ from each other, instead of focusing on the wider range of players that want variety.

Person C wants to drive an EP3 Civic but too bad, have 2 EK9s instead.

Wait, you used logic? That's illegal, or as someone said "go play something else"!
How dare people wanting to drive cars that aren't (but should be) in the game!!!!!!!

yeah too bad go play something else then

Here you go, the 10yo kid argument. You do know, that if GT playerbase starts playing "something else", GT as a game dies, right?

In your opinion but you're wrong

Ah, I forgot, the so important gear ratios, and of course the GPS in the center console, and the heated seats, and whatever other trim options it may or may not have. Be honest, most people would gladly get various engines to install in each car, over trim options and whatever.

If it’s called statistics, provide them then.

Why? Too lazy? You can just check how many MR2s were made, and how many of any specific version, and many with that turbo engine you mentioned, how many are left stock, and the chances of an actual sizeable percentage of GT players having one. Now do that with an ordinary car, like a 1.5 Dci Clio.

You're right I don't know how you play it and I don't care, It seems you are telling people how to play it actually because the only important parts are engine swaps and these model differences are useless because of the little differences in the cars so no point in using them....

Yes, there's no point wasting time modeling cars with so little difference. Alternatively, they can just add the variants as a trim option, or an engine swap/GT Auto parts. No point in fake boosting the car count with cars that are virtually the same, just with a facelift. And I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm telling how PD shouldn't act.

Please point out where I've said you have to play the game a certain way?

Glad you asked:

3) by your comments the game clearly isn't for you, it is for the some who do understand and want these "duplicates"

Sounds like you wish for certain cars and are getting annoyed they aren't in the game and yet taking your frustrations out on these "duplicates"... guess what don't drive them then.

yeah too bad go play something else then

So... I guess you shot your own foot there, huh?

Sounds like you wish for certain cars and are getting annoyed they aren't in the game and yet taking your frustrations out on these "duplicates"... guess what don't drive them then.

Mate, I have a 300+ car wishlist. Every single one of those cars is worth more to the game, for the sake of variety, than any of those duplicates.

And if I'm annoyed at anything, is on one side, PD for prioritising small variations of existing cars, and on the other hand, for people like you trying to convince people that 2 slightly differently shaped potatoes are as different as if they were 1 potato and 1 tomato.

 

[AlexWilmot]

By adding two versions of the same car, they are catering to a smaller percentage of players than if they had 2 actually different cars. Your own points bite you back m8.

Funny thing is, in your head, there are only person A and B, the rest screw them, right? What's important is to cater for a small percentage of players who care for 2 cars that barely differ from each other, instead of focusing on the wider range of players that want variety.


Wait, you used logic? That's illegal, or as someone said "go play something else"!
How dare people wanting to drive cars that aren't (but should be) in the game!!!!!!!


Here you go, the 10yo kid argument. You do know, that if GT playerbase starts playing "something else", GT as a game dies, right?


Ah, I forgot, the so important gear ratios, and of course the GPS in the center console, and the heated seats, and whatever other trim options it may or may not have. Be honest, most people would gladly get various engines to install in each car, over trim options and whatever.


Why? Too lazy? You can just check how many MR2s were made, and how many of any specific version, and many with that turbo engine you mentioned, how many are left stock, and the chances of an actual sizeable percentage of GT players having one. Now do that with an ordinary car, like a 1.5 Dci Clio.


Yes, there's no point wasting time modeling cars with so little difference. Alternatively, they can just add the variants as a trim option, or an engine swap/GT Auto parts. No point in fake boosting the car count with cars that are virtually the same, just with a facelift. And I'm not telling people how to play the game, I'm telling how PD shouldn't act.


Glad you asked:



So... I guess you shot your own foot there, huh?


Mate, I have a 300+ car wishlist. Every single one of those cars is worth more to the game, for the sake of variety, than any of those duplicates.

And if I'm annoyed at anything, is on one side, PD for prioritising small variations of existing cars, and on the other hand, for people like you trying to convince people that 2 slightly differently shaped potatoes are as different as if they were 1 potato and 1 tomato.

Jeez where to begin with this nonsense... right you said people don't drive their own cars in game, you said there's statistics for that, I asked where and now I must find the stats for you?

Where did I say there's only person A and B, referring to two people who would like to drive the different version of the "identical" car and the game caters for them, if they can't cater for Person C why is that an issue with the "duplicates", A and B was used as there Civic EK 97 and Civic EK 98, no need for more, if you can't understand that then I'm sorry you're not going to understand most of this discussion,

I'll ask you again where did I tell how to play the game because you're now ignoring that part,
Telling someone to go play something else is because they want a car/piece of content that doesn't exist in this one... very 10year old of me, oh wait maybe I should be like a 10 year old an image the wanted car to be in game...

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the nonsense you've written here as its all over the place, doesn't actually link to any of the points you made earlier and boils down to you not getting what you want and making a fuss about it and wont accept that other people actually enjoy using these "duplicates"