- 142
- The Moon
I love the change from day to night!
Day-Night racing and weather confirm !!!
- Thread starter Akira AC
- 131 comments
- 16,519 views
- 533
- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
I'm going to stick my head out here and brace one's self for the chop!
I think dynamic day/night transitions will only be used on rally stages and circuits...not on city tracks. There has been no evidence, so far, that shows the transition taking place in city streets, however, night racing will be pre-baked for city tracks.
There, I said it. I reckon that, technically, it'll be hard for them to push a dynamic transition as well as using dynamic lighting to light up a street circuit when it gets dark. The only way I can imagine it working is if they pre-bake the lighting that becomes more visible as it gets darker...essentially that means street circuits will always be in 'night' mode.
Now I'm not a programmer etc... but I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. If anyone can point me to evidence or help explain how it could be done please do.
I think dynamic day/night transitions will only be used on rally stages and circuits...not on city tracks. There has been no evidence, so far, that shows the transition taking place in city streets, however, night racing will be pre-baked for city tracks.
There, I said it. I reckon that, technically, it'll be hard for them to push a dynamic transition as well as using dynamic lighting to light up a street circuit when it gets dark. The only way I can imagine it working is if they pre-bake the lighting that becomes more visible as it gets darker...essentially that means street circuits will always be in 'night' mode.
Now I'm not a programmer etc... but I've seen nothing to suggest otherwise. If anyone can point me to evidence or help explain how it could be done please do.
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^I agree. Why would they bother if you only do like 5-10 laps on most tracks most of the time? i mean. would it really be necessary on say.. Apricot Hill? I reckon there will be a day and night setting for each track. also, imagine the work that would go into a city track day/night transition, building lighting,street lighting and so on. I do believe however, that they will be there for certain tracks though such as the Nurburgring or Circuit de la Sarthe, i.e 24hour tracks.
- 355
- NoStreetCred / GTP_CerealKiller
Impossible to say, but my gut says that if they invested all that effort to get the dynamic effects working on some tracks, they probably had the foresight to do it for all. If some cannot support it would likely be the exception rather than the rule.
- 8,725
Why is it harder to do a real-time transition of global lighting for a city circuit than for a rally circuit, given that neither one is technically exclusive of the other?
If you are referring to the number of objects, then it doesn't matter - it's polygons (well, vertices, really) that matter the most (along with pixels / passes), and, if the art teams are doing their job (looks good to me!), then these numbers oughtn't vary too much from track to track.
What's worrying me is the fact that the headlight "projections" (or however they're implemented; they look like light-maps to me) don't affect all objects equally. If they are lightmaps, then this is probably just a bug; if they are true projections, then something is "wrong" with the lighting engine, and indicates that there might be less flexibility after all - meaning, not all tracks will get proper day / night transitions, as seen in Toscana. (standard vs. premium?)
I wouldn't worry about night / weather upsetting the difficulty forn00bz / trophy-whores / casual players, since PD must include options to this effect, so that everybody can scale their "experience" according to their tastes. 👍
If you are referring to the number of objects, then it doesn't matter - it's polygons (well, vertices, really) that matter the most (along with pixels / passes), and, if the art teams are doing their job (looks good to me!), then these numbers oughtn't vary too much from track to track.
What's worrying me is the fact that the headlight "projections" (or however they're implemented; they look like light-maps to me) don't affect all objects equally. If they are lightmaps, then this is probably just a bug; if they are true projections, then something is "wrong" with the lighting engine, and indicates that there might be less flexibility after all - meaning, not all tracks will get proper day / night transitions, as seen in Toscana. (standard vs. premium?)
I wouldn't worry about night / weather upsetting the difficulty for
- 4,773
- SoCal
- GTP_MooCow
Thank you Vincent for being the first one to say it... and I also want to be on the same chopping board, because i have always had a 'gut' feeling that this would be the case. When November comes, it would not surprise me if the day/night transition feature would NOT be available on every track... but will only be available for certain specific track like Toscana.
Of course, at this point we one have seen one scene, and the transition is rather fast...
Assumption 1:
If Toscana is a close circuit, then we can only assume that the transition will only happening once, but when will it be during a race or a time trial?!
Let's say you start your race... it's day light, and you drive for 5 or x number of laps straight none stop. whenever the day/night transition, then it becomes night, so you continue driving y-number of laps in the dark, then what?? what would happen after those laps:
- night/day transition?
- you stay in dark/night mode until you exit the race?
Assumption 2 (independent of 1):
If Toscana circuit is a point to point open end circuit, then the day night transition would make sense and would only occur specifically at a location when the car drives by... and it will always happen at that location every time you restart your race...
Anyways, anyhow...
whatever it is... we have no saying in it...
Just grasp yourself for the worst...
... and some of you might want to know everything now...
I actually dont want Kaz to reveal too much before the game releases, because then it will not be a surprise anymore... i hope it will be the greatest 'driving' game. Period. If other games like GTA or Assassin's Creed 2 are able to feature 24h transition, why wouldn't Kaz be. (well the quality and resolution are not the same, so it would certainly be a bigger challenge for PD to implement that)
- 8,725
Dood, have you heard of this thing called "time" ?
The way it works is, an internal clock advances at a set rate, much like a real clock, (it could be accelerated, as in the Toscana vid) and with it, the "sun" moves across the sky according to the game time. If day / night is in, then night / day is, too. PD haven't just hacked in a basic trigger-based solution! The whole lighting engine was designed from the ground up to support this (though it might not be compatible with older assets, that is, if tracks are to be "imported" from older games...)
The other cool thing is, you can have the time "frozen" at a specific point, much like in previous games, except you could potentially choose that time - say just after dawn, to emulate that early morning blast you sometimes do in your own car. It still supports trigger-based activation, too.
I'm with you on the withholding of information, though. I want to see all the really cool 🤬 for myself after I've put the disc in my console; I mean, I was sold on it after Vision Gran Turismo!!
Also, Citta di Aria is amazing. In GT4 I have a ~600 bhp R33 (purple, obviously) which I slap slicks on to wring its neck around that little village. It's just as fun in smaller, lesser powered, less sticky cars. It's the lightning-fast driver responses it asks for that is the attraction, not to mention it's chuffing hard - yes, like a rally stage. Anybody who got any good at the original Unreal Tournament knows what I mean!
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BTW check in the news section on GT planet about this, the E3 demo of night/day transition was accelerated for the demo.
- 533
- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
Sorry...I edited my post for clarification. I do actually just mean for city tracks.
I really, really don't think it's technically possible to implement a transition on a street track. In that sense I think all street tracks will be 'the exception'.
It's not about the global lighting...that can be done on all circuit quite easily...nor the amount of polygons. My concern is that as you go from light to dark the whole environment will need to begin processing numerous additional light sources and, considering the amount of detail GT5 is already pushing, I don't think day/night transitions will be an option on street circuits.
Rally stages and purpose built circuits seldom have a cluster of street lamps illuminating the environment.
Yeah...I'd like to see that tightened up as well.What's worrying me is the fact that the headlight "projections" (or however they're implemented; they look like light-maps to me) don't affect all objects equally. If they are lightmaps, then this is probably just a bug; if they are true projections, then something is "wrong" with the lighting engine, and indicates that there might be less flexibility after all - meaning, not all tracks will get proper day / night transitions, as seen in Toscana. (standard vs. premium?)
I think the global lighting system is properly implemented i.e. you could race on a circuit for days and encounter real-time transitions. To that end I think the system is based on time rather than points of a circuit.
- 8,725
I see, yes... I only thought about that afterwards. If the global lighting model relies on a collection of point sources for light bounces, then the extra load won't be an issue for street circuits, given that some sort of specialised architecture will be in use to handle high numbers of lights; similarly if the headlights are true projections, not "maps", or other texture-based methods.
Deferred lighting is a method I'm often going on about, but it is one method that can allow relative ambivalence to incredibly large numbers of (real) point light sources; it is often used for "radiosity", or global illumination and simulating light bounces (like radiosity...). The terminology is all mixed up, so I apologise - though it might just reflect the state of the industry!
Anyway, DiRT2 uses deferred lighting; think of the Battersea Rally-cross circuit with its huuuge number of light sources at night:
If this is what GT5 does, there'll be no problem - aside from the textures used on "imported" tracks, which will have pre-baked lighting. Proper real-time global illumination does this itself, of course (a bit like Ambient Occlusion and a radiosity pass in pre-baked stuff).
- 533
- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
Yeah...I made my prediction with 'deferred rendering' in mind. I guess headlights use deferred rending in some capacity?
I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'the extra load won't be an issue'? Because I'm not technical I interpret that to mean the system is only referring to one set of code repeated many times i.e. for each street lamp. If so does that mean you think the PS3, after all that Kaz has done, could still push hundreds of light sources as well as render the 'dynamic' night effects?
I just don't think this generation has the raw power to push what Kaz wants so I think pre-baked city night races are one of the concessions made.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'the extra load won't be an issue'? Because I'm not technical I interpret that to mean the system is only referring to one set of code repeated many times i.e. for each street lamp. If so does that mean you think the PS3, after all that Kaz has done, could still push hundreds of light sources as well as render the 'dynamic' night effects?
I just don't think this generation has the raw power to push what Kaz wants so I think pre-baked city night races are one of the concessions made.
hey everyone,it seems like the weather is not confirm by any means,just has been sights of wind speed changes,changes somehow the weather changes can be possible if moving clouds are present in the race,which is likely because in a perfect sunny day like the weather "condition" in Tokyo R246,and some "confirmation" of wind effect later after the R246 section of the video:
in the pre racing shot the camera points out to the sky,but an strange thing is that the sky is complete clear,no sights of clouds.
Now if we look at the video of nurburgring we found clouds in a massive way:
And in the next nurburgring video:
Although the number of clouds seems to be the same(maybe),the illumination of the track is more intense,is not a result from the cam videos because the illumination for each screen seems different,but the illumination point seems to be situated in other position from the first video,we have no sights of a real weather changes but if any of you eagle-eye members had saw any cloud movement or change could be a good sight of weather change.
in the pre racing shot the camera points out to the sky,but an strange thing is that the sky is complete clear,no sights of clouds.
Now if we look at the video of nurburgring we found clouds in a massive way:
And in the next nurburgring video:
Although the number of clouds seems to be the same(maybe),the illumination of the track is more intense,is not a result from the cam videos because the illumination for each screen seems different,but the illumination point seems to be situated in other position from the first video,we have no sights of a real weather changes but if any of you eagle-eye members had saw any cloud movement or change could be a good sight of weather change.
- 11,953
- Marin County
I feel the same way. Imagine, then, how special it was for me to spend a day in the city of Assisi (the city the track is wound around) I retraced where the track followed (as best I could from memory) and took this shot, which I believe will be recognizable for some:
(a bit of gratuitous HDR effects)
This is gate right after the sort of hairpin (towards the end of a lap) which looks out over the valley in the game. Considerably narrower in real life. Keep in mind this is facing the opposite direction.
The path through the city is a little exaggerated for width, because I don't really think you'd want to drive through it as is!
Then there is the castle at the top of the mountain (rocca maggiore), which is just visible in GT4, but fully explorable in real life.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Again, fully modelled, by PD!
Must've been a premium castle.. I guess.
I think personally that there´s almost zero chance that there will be weather effects like moving clouds if talking about thundering clouds or that sort of stuff. That would be crazy, really. Perhaps even some moving clouds actually but real weather changes, I doubt it. That would be pretty sick IMO.
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BTW I was the last hour or so looking at some videos on you tube and I found this:
which caught my attention because of the wind conditions and the damage,If for example you lost your rear wing on a prototype you will flip on straights(basic physics principle),but if the wind become stronger than the resistance for the car on the straights,so this means also that any kind of cosmetic damage will inevitable become mechanical damage on this kind of races.
I don't know a whole lot about this topic but I have seen race cars doing back flips on the air,maybe we get that on GT5.
(on an aside note Mark Webber seems to like back flips,including the 2010 valencia grand Prix and this one)
which caught my attention because of the wind conditions and the damage,If for example you lost your rear wing on a prototype you will flip on straights(basic physics principle),but if the wind become stronger than the resistance for the car on the straights,so this means also that any kind of cosmetic damage will inevitable become mechanical damage on this kind of races.
I don't know a whole lot about this topic but I have seen race cars doing back flips on the air,maybe we get that on GT5.
(on an aside note Mark Webber seems to like back flips,including the 2010 valencia grand Prix and this one)
gtracedriver
(Banned)
- 603
This has probably been posted elsewhere. But anyways here he says rain and snow scenery 
- 533
- cooldawn | GTP_Vincent_Vice
- cooldawn
He also says February!
gtracedriver
(Banned)
- 603
^^
Yeah I noticed that too but I think they will release it this year
Yeah I noticed that too but I think they will release it this year
- 64
This has probably been posted elsewhere. But anyways here he says rain and snow scenery
- 1,752
- Maxitsu
This has probably been posted elsewhere. But anyways here he says rain and snow scenery
What track on 1:06 & 1:09? 👍
And he says 20 diffrent scenery. Is it the 20 location thingy. Maybe i am wrong, thinking it was 20 country's. When playing prologue and go to arcade race. You see the 6 tracks. on Eiger Norwand is called "Nature", "London" is "City". Fiji, Suzuka & High Speed Ring is called "Circuit".
Maybe there are 20 types of scenery, whit all have there own weahter.
"Circuit"(Fiji, highspeedring)
"Oval" (daytona, Indiana)
"City"(London,Madrid)
"Dirt"(Toscana)
"Tropical" (Shangai, Kuala Lumpur)
"Snow"(Chamonix)
"Mountain"(El capitan, Eiger)
"Dessert"(Bahrain)
"Forest"(Deep Forest)
"Airport"(top gear, Silverstone)
"Beach" (Daytona/?)
"indoor" (indoor Kart circuit)
"Stadium" (rally event/dirt oval)
"Plains"(salt plains, for high speed testing, Thunder hill, Laguna seca)
"Gymkhana" (test park, beginner course, motorland)
"Highway" (SSR8/11, TokyoRoute)
"manufacturers" (Fiorano)
"Parking Lot" (Karts/Ceasars Pallace)
"Sea" (Abu Dhabi F1 circuit)
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- 680
- Chicago, IL USA
- Aaron_Olive
- Aaron Olive
- 1,752
- Maxitsu
why are those darn graphics so good 👍 you can't see what's real anymore.
- 275
- Side 3
- BigNFL
This thread just made me so happy.
- 4,773
- SoCal
- GTP_MooCow
Smoke&Slide comments was taken from the "Premium/Standard" thread, and pasted here for clarity:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481&page=204#post3970557
I already suspected that would be the case since last year already...
I didnt want to get my hopes up, and so back then,
i told myself that weather (if included) will only be available, for a few limited tracks, and as for time change/day/night cycle, only works for a predefined tracks... (i was even more skeptical about day cycles back then, highly doubting it would make it through, but i guess i am wrong)
Example of that Toscana circuit:
we all have seen how the sun sets on that track, specifically at a certain point of the track, each time the cars goes by that location of the track....
It seems to me that the sunset is initiated when you pass a predefined point on that track...
my question is:
Is this track closed or open...
if closed... will the sun set when we pass that location on the first round, and then what?? it stays permanently night for the rest of the course (whether you make 4 or 70 laps...)
We havent seen more footage of laps lasting more than 2 min on that track...
We havent seen any footage about sun rising...
will this feature (day cycle) and "one way street"... no
anyone else to comment on this??
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=128481&page=204#post3970557
I already suspected that would be the case since last year already...
I didnt want to get my hopes up, and so back then,
i told myself that weather (if included) will only be available, for a few limited tracks, and as for time change/day/night cycle, only works for a predefined tracks... (i was even more skeptical about day cycles back then, highly doubting it would make it through, but i guess i am wrong)
Example of that Toscana circuit:
we all have seen how the sun sets on that track, specifically at a certain point of the track, each time the cars goes by that location of the track....
It seems to me that the sunset is initiated when you pass a predefined point on that track...
my question is:
Is this track closed or open...
if closed... will the sun set when we pass that location on the first round, and then what?? it stays permanently night for the rest of the course (whether you make 4 or 70 laps...)
We havent seen more footage of laps lasting more than 2 min on that track...
We havent seen any footage about sun rising...
will this feature (day cycle) and "one way street"... no
anyone else to comment on this??
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Its an interesting observation.. It would seem kind of pointless to have the time change according to your positon on track rather then due to time passage.
I think that was only done for demo purposes. However it would have worked and maybe been less time to implement if they did just keep the day to night via time...
Seems odd..
I think that was only done for demo purposes. However it would have worked and maybe been less time to implement if they did just keep the day to night via time...
Seems odd..
- 600
I also think GT5 will use deferred lighting since the time of day changes so slow, it can render the prebaked lighting of the current time of day and slowly transition out the new textures to the track. I would this think task can always run as the lowest of priority on the Cell so it won't actually affect framerate
I see, yes... I only thought about that afterwards. If the global lighting model relies on a collection of point sources for light bounces, then the extra load won't be an issue for street circuits, given that some sort of specialised architecture will be in use to handle high numbers of lights; similarly if the headlights are true projections, not "maps", or other texture-based methods.
Deferred lighting is a method I'm often going on about, but it is one method that can allow relative ambivalence to incredibly large numbers of (real) point light sources; it is often used for "radiosity", or global illumination and simulating light bounces (like radiosity...). The terminology is all mixed up, so I apologise - though it might just reflect the state of the industry!
Anyway, DiRT2 uses deferred lighting; think of the Battersea Rally-cross circuit with its huuuge number of light sources at night:
If this is what GT5 does, there'll be no problem - aside from the textures used on "imported" tracks, which will have pre-baked lighting. Proper real-time global illumination does this itself, of course (a bit like Ambient Occlusion and a radiosity pass in pre-baked stuff).
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