Deep Thoughts

[HenrySwanson]

I'm reading about Habermas' view on secularism. Perhaps the next step in the evolution of Western societies could bring a renewed (deeper) sense of purpose. I'd imagine other cultures would find their way to....enlightenment(?) through different paths.

 

[UKMikey]

lol. Amazing. One what threw a bitchfit about genocide in China to deflect from protest against police brutality and to assert that those engaging in the latter purportedly without regard for the former are "****ing hypocrits" [sic]--while not actually doing anything about the former--would obviously refer to the "insights" (not the word I'm looking for but it'll have to do) of nativist parasite and general connie rat Sargon of Akkad.

Waiting for his follow up video blaming people being glum on Muslims, women, the jooz and the social justice movement.

Actually, I'm not because whenever I see his name on a video I tend to switch off after a few seconds. Sorry if that isn't a deep thought.

 

[Daniel]

It was a dystopia, one similar to that we are now living in. You said “approaching”, I’d say it’s here.

This was just recently publish, coincidentally:


Worth 15 minutes of your time, since you posed the question.

I've made it about halfway through and I've picked up very little aside from "I clearly despise immigrants" and "I miss the playground from McDonalds".

The YouTuber makes various claims like an "army of illegal murdering migrants" despite the source in the screen not saying anything about the legal status of the migrants except the fact they're non-citizens. He also neglects to mention that undocumented immigrants in the USA actually commit crimes at a notably lower rate than both documented immigrants and US born citizens. There was also no significant effect on the crime rate from migrants during and after the refugee crisis in Germany.

And then also complains about prisoners being let out early despite the fact that the prison population in UK is increasing??

I got a bit tired of listening to his citation-less claims -- does he in any way go in-depth about global warming, or unfettered capitalism and the failure of trickle-down contributing in any meaningful way towards the middle and lower classes? Or is is still largely "I missed making racist jokes in the 90s and the world is too PC for me to make them now I blame the immigrants)

 

[HenrySwanson]

I've made it about halfway through and I've picked up very little aside from "I clearly despise immigrants" and "I miss the playground from McDonalds".

The YouTuber makes various claims like an "army of illegal murdering migrants" despite the source in the screen not saying anything about the legal status of the migrants except the fact they're non-citizens. He also neglects to mention that undocumented immigrants in the USA actually commit crimes at a notably lower rate than both documented immigrants and US born citizens. There was also no significant effect on the crime rate from migrants during and after the refugee crisis in Germany.

And then also complains about prisoners being let out early despite the fact that the prison population in UK is increasing??

View attachment 1396220
I got a bit tired of listening to his citation-less claims -- does he in any way go in-depth about global warming, or unfettered capitalism and the failure of trickle-down contributing in any meaningful way towards the middle and lower classes? Or is is still largely "I missed making racist jokes in the 90s and the world is too PC for me to make them now I blame the immigrants)

This way of thinking is being challenged.

You only have to look at Reddit threads, especially in response to analyses such as this:

Britain's demographic is in the process of dramatic change - and what's causing it is intriguing

Figures released by the Office for National Statistics show that the overall level of the UK population rose to 68.3 million by the middle of 2023.

news.sky.com

As there isn't (I believe) a clear breakdown of the prison population by nationality from the government it's left to right-leaning publications to produce "analysis" such as:

Revealed: First migrant crime table

One in 50 Albanians in the UK in prison, Telegraph analysis shows

www.telegraph.co.uk

While the methodology of that research can be debated, the refugee crisis most definitely affected crime in the Nordic countries (see my post above). I'm afraid what you will see is more trouble with the demographic crunch and people splitting into factions based on ethnic/religious/political lines a la Israel/Palestine and Lebanon. What we need is a good centrist party willing to address the problem of low birth rates/high number of pensioners being found across the world (not just in the West; S Korea is facing a massive crisis) and highlight the positives and negatives of immigration.

But then we have MAGAs believing the government is creating hurricanes, a Foreign Secretary who thought Henry VII succeeded Henry VIII and I think we're doomed anyway.

The YT video misses on some points, but society's declining sense of purpose - something in the past provided in part by religion - is noticeable.

 

[TexRex]

"I miss the playground from McDonalds"

It's fitting given that a not insignificant portion of the bitch's shtick is pandering to youth nostalgia and the perspective that society has declined, evinced by things seeming worse than narrowly focused childhood memory.

Edit: lol. lmao.

"Things were better when music video."

 

[HenrySwanson]

Lost a friend (Whomp whomp)

Booooring.

 

[ScottPuss20]

It's fitting given that a not insignificant portion of the bitch's shtick is pandering to youth nostalgia and the perspective that society has declined, evinced by things seeming worse than narrowly focused childhood memory.

Edit: lol. lmao.

"Things were better when music video."

I agree.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I agree.

Agree with what?

 

[HenrySwanson]

Matthew Syed comes to a similar conclusion:

Alert readers may remember that I wrote on this subject 18 months ago, arguing that we in the UK should ban consanguineous marriage. The column became one of the most-read stories of the year, not because of any journalist merit but because readers instantly spotted the logic. Friends in Scandinavia said the piece had been picked up there, and an article I cited by the brilliant scholar Patrick Nash started to trend. A movement seemed to be spreading.

Why is this significant? Why do I think a ban could not only help western nations but transform the developing world by boosting growth and reducing bloodshed? Well, permit me to offer a bit of context. Humankind has been tribal for much of the past 12,000 years (since the agricultural revolution). This form of social organisation made sense because cohesive groups built on kinship are good at defending territory. And how are the tribes glued together internally? By cousin marriage. People marry within the group, the unions typically arranged by patriarchs, ensuring a clear demarcation with outsiders.
A problem arose, however, when tribal societies sought — slowly, messily, often painfully — to become nation states. You can perhaps see the challenge. A region populated by tribes isn’t really a nation: it is an arena of disunity and, often, conflict. Look at many of the world’s problems today — from terrible clashes in Yemen and Syria to civil wars in Sudan — and you see the same root cause. All these places are riven by tribe, clan and ethnic group.

The appalling crime wave in Sweden (a nation that took a particularly permissive approach to immigration) is, I believe, due to some of its clans morphing — as in Sicily during the 19th century — into crime syndicates. Tribalism is an efficient social organisation for criminality: intense loyalty, clear differentiation from outsiders and little truck with rules given by an external authority. Soaring gun violence has boosted the far right, which shows how dangerously complacent “liberals” have been.

I think it's time for some here to evolve their views for the coming ********.

EDIT:

This guy had a good video documenting the UK riots:
LANGUAGE WARNING

Spoiler

 

[ScottPuss20]

Agree with what?

With everything he said.

 

[HenrySwanson]

With everything he said.

Which is what?

Does this mean you'll be closing your mind to certain sources of information in the future?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Which is what?

Does this mean you'll be closing your mind to certain sources of information in the future?

No it does not.

 

[HenrySwanson]

No it does not.

Sorry, I'm still not sure what exactly you agree with or your current views.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Sorry, I'm still not sure what exactly you agree with or your current views.

I agree with all the points he makes. What's soo hard to understand about that?

 

[HenrySwanson]

What's soo hard to understand about that?

With everything he said.

I agree with all the points he makes.

Which is what, exactly?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Which is what, exactly?

That things were better before mass immigration, racial and gendered guilt activism and bankers screwed the economy.

 

[Famine]

That things were better before mass immigration, racial and gendered guilt activism and bankers screwed the economy.

When you were, according to your profile, two?

 

[HenrySwanson]

That things were better before mass immigration, racial and gendered guilt activism and bankers screwed the economy.

You could understand my confusion - I wasn't trying to trip you up, I just didn't know who you agreed with.

What are you basing this comparison on?

EDIT: I did like my area much more in 2001, but that was a part of London, which is a part of England, the UK, Europe etc. I don't know if I would say "the world was better then". Gotta understand I was a teenager and so my view would have been skewed by that fact as well.

 

[TexRex]

I agree.

 

[ScottPuss20]

When you were, according to your profile, two?

Yes.

You could understand my confusion - I wasn't trying to trip you up, I just didn't know who you agreed with.

What are you basing this comparison on?

EDIT: I did like my area much more in 2001, but that was a part of London, which is a part of England, the UK, Europe etc. I don't know if I would say "the world was better then". Gotta understand I was a teenager and so my view would have been skewed by that fact as well.

In Melbourne, mass immigration is causing a housing crisis which is directly impacting people like me. Too many people are being let in and the city cannot cope with it. The government believes that more people = better economy which just isn't true.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Yes.

In Melbourne, mass immigration is causing a housing crisis which is directly impacting people like me. Too many people are being let in and the city cannot cope with it. The government believes that more people = better economy which just isn't true.

Ahh gotcha.

You have to understand that what you're saying differs from what Benjamin said.

Re the cause of the housing crisis, having a quick look I found:

The cost of housing is a big reason. Property prices have soared despite high borrowing costs, and Australia faces a chronic shortage of rentals. A lack of building is the main cause, but both major parties concede that high immigration is exacerbating the problem. “We’ve got a generation of Australians who can’t even get into a rental…it is not the time to be running very large migration programmes,” said the home-affairs minister, Clare O’Neil.

Which makes sense.

 

[Daniel]

Yes.

In Melbourne, mass immigration is causing a housing crisis which is directly impacting people like me. Too many people are being let in and the city cannot cope with it. The government believes that more people = better economy which just isn't true.

When do you think mass migration, 'racial and gendered guilt activism' (whatever that means) and bankers screwing the economy really stared becoming an issue in Australia?

 

[UKMikey]

When do you think mass migration, 'racial and gendered guilt activism' (whatever that means) and bankers screwing the economy really stared becoming an issue in Australia?

It's all those bloody Abos which are the problem mate. Send 'em back! /s

I found an article which says that rents were increasing in Australia long before the borders were reopened after Covid in February 2022. It sounds like closing the borders wouldn't slow down the rising prices much without reducing tax cuts and addressing the supply shortage. Blaming immigrants for the problem isn't telling the whole story from what I can see.

Australia’s immigration spike not necessarily driving up housing prices, experts say

Net migration was set to return to ‘normal’ levels, even without the latest overhaul of temporary visa rules, researchers say

www.theguardian.com

 

[Famine]

Yes.

Just for absolute clarity, you believe that your society was better when your meals came out of another human being's chest (or a plastic bottle with a rubber nipple on it), your toilet schedule consisted of just filling that nappy up as and when, and when you played no role in your society whatsoever than it is now?

And it's the immigrants, race/gender activism (which, for someone who portrays themselves as a cat, is quite the scapekitty considering all those apocryphal stories from the right-wing nutjobs about schoolchildren identifying as cats that they lump in with gender issues), and bankers who have made society worse than...

... a time period of which you have no recollection because your most complex thoughts would have been which hole to shove a marble into?

You think you have extremely well-formed, well-judged impressions of society in this period, do you?

In Melbourne, mass immigration is causing a housing crisis which is directly impacting people like me.

Greater Melbourne Demographics per ABS census:

Year - Population - Australian-Born (%) - Private Dwellings - Unoccupied dwellings (%) - People per occupied dwelling
2021 - 4,917,750 - 2,947,136 (59.9%) - 2,057,482 - 198,685 (9.7%) - 2.6
2016 - 4,485,211 - 2,684,272 (59.7%) - 1,832,243 - 167,500 (9.1%) - 2.7
2011 - 3,999,982 - 2,530,775 (63.3%) - 1,636,167 - 141,506 (8.6%) - 2.6
2006 - 3,592,591 - 2,306,099 (64.2%) - 1,471,155 - 119,623 (8.1%) - 2.6*
2001 - 3,338,704 - 2,195,706 (65.7%) - 1,344,624 - 101,251 (7.5%) - N/A*

*"Melbourne" rather than "Greater Melbourne"; areas are broadly identical

Doesn't much look like "mass immigration" at all. In 20 years the population has increased by just under 1.6m, of which just under half are Australian-born. That corresponds to about 40,000 non-Australian people a year moving to the area, and it's unsafe to assume all are new immigrants.

There's been a small increase in the number of English-born people (~7,000, or 6%), a large increase in the number of NZ-born people (~37,000; just under double), and the two largest increases have been Chinese and Indian which didn't even make the top five in 2001 but sit at 166k and 242k respectively in 2021 and account for at most 318k between them. Along with Vietnam, up by 35k from 2021, half of all non-Australian-born migration from 2001-2021 is these five nations. The remaining 432k - or 21,500 people per year - is of other origin.

If it's Arabs that concern you, there's no figure other than "top language spoken at home other than English", with responses of Arabic sitting at 87,689 and accounting for 1.8%. This wasn't in the top five in previous years, so has increased by anywhere from 16,000 to the full 87,000 in the last five years - an increase of 3,000-17,500 a year.

Any "housing crisis" looks to be caused by vacant properties. The number of private houses has increased by just over 700,000 in the same time (enough to reduce the numbers of people per dwelling) but the occupancy rate has dropped from 92.5% to ~90%: there's 100,000 more empty homes. This, to be fair, could be on "the bankers".

 

[UKMikey]

Ouch. @Famine right now:

[/deep thoughts]

 

[TheCracker]

Any "housing crisis" looks to be caused by vacant properties. The number of private houses has increased by just over 700,000 in the same time (enough to reduce the numbers of people per dwelling) but the occupancy rate has dropped from 92.5% to ~90%: there's 100,000 more empty homes. This, to be fair, could be on "the bankers".

I wonder how short term rentals (such as Airbnb) are classified in these figures?

There's been such a rise in this kind of short-term rental over the past decade, it wouldn't surprise me if this doesn't skew stats in itself.

 

[TexRex]

In Melbourne, mass immigration is causing a housing crisis which is directly impacting people like me.

No but how much space could invalids really need anyway? /s

The government believes that more people = better economy which just isn't true.

Increased rate of immigration isn't inconsistent with economic growth. It turns out that the diversity of skillset and wage flexibility associated with immigration are good things. Population increase also creates jobs that immigrants and existing residents can then fill.

Housing is a part of the economy. It's actually a fairly inconsequential part as demonstrated by so many other dams holding even as housing crises loom. If housing had more of an effect on the greater economy, such crises may more readily instigate action. I say "may" because inaction is frequently related to bureaucracy which isn't so readily instigated.

'racial and gendered guilt activism' (whatever that means)

"The blacks and the queers don't tolerate our bigotry toward them! We are victims!"

 

[HenrySwanson]

Greater Melbourne Demographics per ABS census:

Year - Population - Australian-Born (%) - Private Dwellings - Unoccupied dwellings (%) - People per occupied dwelling
2021 - 4,917,750 - 2,947,136 (59.9%) - 2,057,482 - 198,685 (9.7%) - 2.6
2016 - 4,485,211 - 2,684,272 (59.7%) - 1,832,243 - 167,500 (9.1%) - 2.7
2011 - 3,999,982 - 2,530,775 (63.3%) - 1,636,167 - 141,506 (8.6%) - 2.6
2006 - 3,592,591 - 2,306,099 (64.2%) - 1,471,155 - 119,623 (8.1%) - 2.6*
2001 - 3,338,704 - 2,195,706 (65.7%) - 1,344,624 - 101,251 (7.5%) - N/A*

*"Melbourne" rather than "Greater Melbourne"; areas are broadly identical

Doesn't much look like "mass immigration" at all. In 20 years the population has increased by just under 1.6m, of which just under half are Australian-born. That corresponds to about 40,000 non-Australian people a year moving to the area, and it's unsafe to assume all are new immigrants.

There's been a small increase in the number of English-born people (~7,000, or 6%), a large increase in the number of NZ-born people (~37,000; just under double), and the two largest increases have been Chinese and Indian which didn't even make the top five in 2001 but sit at 166k and 242k respectively in 2021 and account for at most 318k between them. Along with Vietnam, up by 35k from 2021, half of all non-Australian-born migration from 2001-2021 is these five nations. The remaining 432k - or 21,500 people per year - is of other origin.

If it's Arabs that concern you, there's no figure other than "top language spoken at home other than English", with responses of Arabic sitting at 87,689 and accounting for 1.8%. This wasn't in the top five in previous years, so has increased by anywhere from 16,000 to the full 87,000 in the last five years - an increase of 3,000-17,500 a year.

Any "housing crisis" looks to be caused by vacant properties. The number of private houses has increased by just over 700,000 in the same time (enough to reduce the numbers of people per dwelling) but the occupancy rate has dropped from 92.5% to ~90%: there's 100,000 more empty homes. This, to be fair, could be on "the bankers".

I would caveat this by saying the records for Australian immigration were set post-2021, but are expected to return to a more "normal" figure in the future:

Migration rose by one-third last year to lift Australia’s population by a record 659,000

The net annual rise was revealed as Labor signalled moves to reduce migration arrivals

www.theguardian.com

 

[LeMansAid]

I am an Australian that lives in the capital city I was born in, and have lived my whole life in. I am, in general, nostalgic as all hell. I dearly miss a lot of how life was during the 80s.

To me, though, recent migrants are closer to having the spirit of that type of living than so many of the "originals" (the mostly white, cashed up bogan "true Aussies"). I love, for example, being able to go to the "Afghan area" late on any weeknight and have it full of life. Meanwhile, so many of those "true Aussies" are locked away, finishing up their MAFS watching session on their ego-stroke tv, having had just enough alcohol to numb the pain of their lifeless existence. I wonder if, to a large extent, the loathsome state was created by the people that loathe it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Ahh gotcha.

You have to understand that what you're saying differs from what Benjamin said.

Re the cause of the housing crisis, having a quick look I found:

The cost of housing is a big reason. Property prices have soared despite high borrowing costs, and Australia faces a chronic shortage of rentals. A lack of building is the main cause, but both major parties concede that high immigration is exacerbating the problem. “We’ve got a generation of Australians who can’t even get into a rental…it is not the time to be running very large migration programmes,” said the home-affairs minister, Clare O’Neil.

Which makes sense.

Oh so immigration is not the root cause. It’s just one factor in a multi-faceted issue.

When do you think mass migration, 'racial and gendered guilt activism' (whatever that means) and bankers screwing the economy really stared becoming an issue in Australia?

Don’t know to be honest. 5 years ago maybe?

Just for absolute clarity, you believe that your society was better when your meals came out of another human being's chest (or a plastic bottle with a rubber nipple on it), your toilet schedule consisted of just filling that nappy up as and when, and when you played no role in your society whatsoever than it is now?

I was blissfully unaware of the madness that surrounded me. That’s why it was better. May not have been able to make many of my own choices but anyway.

And it's the immigrants, race/gender activism (which, for someone who portrays themselves as a cat, is quite the scapekitty considering all those apocryphal stories from the right-wing nutjobs about schoolchildren identifying as cats that they lump in with gender issues), and bankers who have made society worse than...

... a time period of which you have no recollection because your most complex thoughts would have been which hole to shove a marble into?

You think you have extremely well-formed, well-judged impressions of society in this period, do you?

I think I do based on the music videos from the time. Guess that’s a poor answer though.

Greater Melbourne Demographics per ABS census:

Year - Population - Australian-Born (%) - Private Dwellings - Unoccupied dwellings (%) - People per occupied dwelling
2021 - 4,917,750 - 2,947,136 (59.9%) - 2,057,482 - 198,685 (9.7%) - 2.6
2016 - 4,485,211 - 2,684,272 (59.7%) - 1,832,243 - 167,500 (9.1%) - 2.7
2011 - 3,999,982 - 2,530,775 (63.3%) - 1,636,167 - 141,506 (8.6%) - 2.6
2006 - 3,592,591 - 2,306,099 (64.2%) - 1,471,155 - 119,623 (8.1%) - 2.6*
2001 - 3,338,704 - 2,195,706 (65.7%) - 1,344,624 - 101,251 (7.5%) - N/A*

*"Melbourne" rather than "Greater Melbourne"; areas are broadly identical

Doesn't much look like "mass immigration" at all. In 20 years the population has increased by just under 1.6m, of which just under half are Australian-born. That corresponds to about 40,000 non-Australian people a year moving to the area, and it's unsafe to assume all are new immigrants.

There's been a small increase in the number of English-born people (~7,000, or 6%), a large increase in the number of NZ-born people (~37,000; just under double), and the two largest increases have been Chinese and Indian which didn't even make the top five in 2001 but sit at 166k and 242k respectively in 2021 and account for at most 318k between them. Along with Vietnam, up by 35k from 2021, half of all non-Australian-born migration from 2001-2021 is these five nations. The remaining 432k - or 21,500 people per year - is of other origin.

The stupid thing is that my parents heap “immigrants” and “children born from immigrant families” in the same boat.

If it's Arabs that concern you, there's no figure other than "top language spoken at home other than English", with responses of Arabic sitting at 87,689 and accounting for 1.8%. This wasn't in the top five in previous years, so has increased by anywhere from 16,000 to the full 87,000 in the last five years - an increase of 3,000-17,500 a year.

Hell I’m not afraid of the Arabs mate

Any "housing crisis" looks to be caused by vacant properties. The number of private houses has increased by just over 700,000 in the same time (enough to reduce the numbers of people per dwelling) but the occupancy rate has dropped from 92.5% to ~90%: there's 100,000 more empty homes. This, to be fair, could be on "the bankers".

I understand this.

I am an Australian that lives in the capital city I was born in, and have lived my whole life in. I am, in general, nostalgic as all hell. I dearly miss a lot of how life was during the 80s.

To me, though, recent migrants are closer to having the spirit of that type of living than so many of the "originals" (the mostly white, cashed up bogan "true Aussies"). I love, for example, being able to go to the "Afghan area" late on any weeknight and have it full of life. Meanwhile, so many of those "true Aussies" are locked away, finishing up their MAFS watching session on their ego-stroke tv, having had just enough alcohol to numb the pain of their lifeless existence. I wonder if, to a large extent, the loathsome state was created by the people that loathe it.

I actually agree with you on this.