Definitive proof. AI Cheating.

  • Thread starter Der Alta
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"OLR" = ??? I'm slow this morning.

Like I previously mentioned, this becomes more of an issue in the series races. It really cheezes me off when the AI suddenly gets cranked up for the last two races. That means if I have a just-competitive car for the first three, I get my butt kicked in the last two. The only way to make it through the whole series is to start out with a dominating car and hope that it is more even for the end races. That's not particularly enjoyable either.

I don't mean to rant, because I do love to play the game. If I didn't, I'd quit playing and posting. This particular aspect is just a disappointment. There are plenty of arcade-oriented games around for people who would rather have simple fun at the cost of some reality. GT should stay as real as possible.
 
Well, there's really no doubt about the fact that the AI cars get a boost when they get far enough behind you (1-2 seconds or more). But it is not universal, and it is not unlimited.

In particular, the boost seems to disappear on longer races where pit strategy becomes a factor. There are some races which model tire wear where an AI boost is present, but if I recall correctly, they are all 5-lappers (or less?) where a pit stop is not needed unless you are running super soft or soft racing tires. I remember running one Amateur level race on Super Softs -- after 3 laps, I had about a 2 or 3 second lead when I pitted; I came out of the pits with a 10-12 second deficit, but caught up to the leaders about a lap later.

I don't remember seeing any AI boost on any of the races at the Professional level, nor on any of the Endurance races. If anybody can show otherwise, I would be interested to hear the details.

After all, you don't want that AI car which pits every two laps (the Cobra at Seattle Enduro) to somehow magically make up 15 seconds on every "pit out" lap. :rolleyes:

And the AI boost is limited. Take an F1 car to the Sunday Cup Midfield race. :) I guarantee that you will win by more than a few seconds. :)
 
there is a simple answer to this discussion boys, in a interview before the release of GT3 the games head programer was discusssing the AI upgrades over that of GT2, in this...he specifically says that on the first half of a rally race the AI will not drive to its full potential....while on the second lap it will go all out and cut every possible corner gaining as much speed as possible (in other words the AI's handicap is removed in the second half of a rally race)....this was done to simulate real human emotion, during the last half of a race dont you normally become more aggressive if the race is close?...or if you are losing?

also, during the agressive last half of the race, the AI car may from time to time spin out, or enter a turn to fast and slam a wall...losing speed...this also simulates emotion...the computer in essence gets "jittery" or "edgy" when losing or being closely tailed...

remember all the talk of emotional AI in GT3?....its really there
 
Mobil!: I'd love to think that the boost is related to the Emotional AI, but when you read my follow-up post about the Amateur Turbo series, and it's blatantly showing the AI and the boost, you start to second guess yourself.

I haven't had the chance to extensively test the races with tire wear, but I'm thinking that the AI does not get a boost in the enduro's or in series races. I'm trying to document that for record.

Also if you want proof that you can see with your own eyes, I'd be happy to sharkport the replay of the Turbo series.

I will second your motion on the "Jittery" AI. In running the Stars & Stripes - Amateur race (444hp Camaro SS), I trailed the cobra around Laguna Seca for the first lap. On the second lap, I punched it up and took the lead. Now, in the first lap, the Cobra was running a perfect line. In the second and Subsequent laps, the Cobra was pushing too hard, and sliding off the track, much like any of us with an overpowered Cobra.

It's not emotion, when they can run a 10 second lap difference on the same race on different laps. Try it some time. Take a high powered FR car into teh Amateur FR races. Follow for a lap, noting the AI's time, then blow by them and note their lap time. Slow down and let them pass you and track the time again.

And it happens considerably more than in the Rally section.

I'm starting to beat a dead horse here, so I'll shut up now. When I can further check up on the Series races, the races with pit strategy, and the enduro's I'll post some findings.

Thank notes about the interview. Ihadn't heard that.

Till later,
AO
 
the AI hasn't cheated with me but it managed to spin out on me in one of the rally races without me doing anything to it. Mainly because it was behind me when it spun out.
 
I thought about the slow car catch-up in the options menu. After about 10 minutes of testing, I found it had no effect.

Good thought though.

AO
 
I do believe that the "Slow Car" option only applies for head-to-head races.
 
who cares if the AI cheats, we cheat more than the puter does, with higher horse power than all the other cars were racing... and plus racing an F1 car against LM cars thats pretty unfair, so i say if the AI cheats let 'em its more of a challenge for me. and if you haven't noticed almost everygame that has come out the AI/enemy/opposition CHEATS
 
Der Alta
As I reflect on the Vitz/Yaris races, it did seem to surprise me that they could keep up even though I had modified my Vitz to the full extent. My thoughts are that PD "boosts" the AI when they fall more than 2 seconds behind. While I could easily outrun them, PD gives them an advantage to catch up. When they catch up, PD takes away the advantage, and they slowly slip back. Boost/ slip back repeat. I'll rerun the Vitz professional again, hanging on to second place and note my best laps to compare to my previous run. I haven't run teh PD cup yet so I can't compare. I will pay very close attention to it now though...

Never having played GT2, I can't verify your findings there.

Arrrghhh...

AO
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Could it be that you suck... just like i've been told to?? 👍
 
Race Idiot
Some tracks on the Vitz cup were quite hard SSR11 mainly. But mostly I managed to gain a lead of over 6 seconds. There is something about SSr11 that makes the AI cars go faster. Man your hammering PD but I dont blame ya. Just wait for Codemasters pro race driver (Or TOCA Racedriver) you WILL get serious hassle from the AI by going by the previous games in the series oh and dont ram them to harshly THEY WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND PURPOUSLY MAKE LIFE HARD FOR YOU BUT NOT IN THE WAY GT3 DOES THIS IS REAL LIFE LIKE AI MAN sorry had to shout. WRC is quite easy but I enjoyed playing it allot, if you like rallys it will be for you but its only a stopgap for Colin Mcrae 3. Im gonna shout about this aswell BEST DAMAGE MODEL IN A RACING GAME......EVER!!!.
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Nooooooo, really? SSR11, seems to be so easy for some.....experts!! 👍
 
I noticed this myself a month or so ago. I was running a race on Seattle II for S&G, in an F1 car. On the first lap, the GT40 Race Car got hung up on one of the turns. On my second lap, I knocked him loose, and he continued to race, a full lap down. From that point on, for the rest of the race (two or three laps), that GT40 was right on my tail, and even passed me a couple of times. I don't care how good a driver you are, ain't no way on God's Green Earth a GT40 can keep pace with a F/094S. But the AI did it.
 
Jedi2016
I noticed this myself a month or so ago. I was running a race on Seattle II for S&G, in an F1 car. On the first lap, the GT40 Race Car got hung up on one of the turns. On my second lap, I knocked him loose, and he continued to race, a full lap down. From that point on, for the rest of the race (two or three laps), that GT40 was right on my tail, and even passed me a couple of times. I don't care how good a driver you are, ain't no way on God's Green Earth a GT40 can keep pace with a F/094S. But the AI did it.
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Well , maybe it was just taking in the time while it was stuck on one of the turns :D
 
I can't remember exactly wich race it was, but.. i'm sure it was Tokyo 246II. I was using the F090/S.... and there were 2 NSX's and an S2000 and Civic and 2 Accords. Anyways, i was just playing around, testing my car....etc....One NSX(NSX-1) was about 25+ seconds behind me and, the 2nd NSX(NSX-2), was approx. 35+ seconds behind me at lap 8 (i was strolling). The NSX-1, pitted at end of lap 8, NSX-2 pitted at end of lap 9. I had previously pitted at end of lap 5. At the end of the race, considering that, the NSX-2 was 45+ seconds behind, after pitting at end of lap 9, it managed to make up soo much time that, it finished a merely 9+ seconds behind me, when my lap time was only less than 2 seconds slower than my previous 4 laps????????????I watched the replay and, i was cracking up laughing, seeing how fast the ground was moving, even though, the speedometer in the NSX-2 was reading 30+ MPH. :lol: I think i saved the race, but, i'll have to look though 4 memory cards, with alot of saves :ill:
 
Jedi2016
I noticed this myself a month or so ago. I was running a race on Seattle II for S&G, in an F1 car. On the first lap, the GT40 Race Car got hung up on one of the turns. On my second lap, I knocked him loose, and he continued to race, a full lap down. From that point on, for the rest of the race (two or three laps), that GT40 was right on my tail, and even passed me a couple of times. I don't care how good a driver you are, ain't no way on God's Green Earth a GT40 can keep pace with a F/094S. But the AI did it.
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maybe you need practice :)

yeah gt3 does have its questionable moments...
 
Hey I havent had time to read all of it or even bother to read all of it I read almost all of your post though Der Alta. Anyways I am guessing the AI is drafting? I think being behind about 1.XXX seconds is a close engough distance to be able to have a drafting effect? right?
 
No they're not drafting.

Check out the Clio in the Amateur MR race at Tokyo. It pits twice in the 5 laps (other AI pits once.) The sequence usually goes something like this.

It's running last.
It pits at the end of lap 2
It comes out of the pits to start lap 3 and catches up to the rest of the field in that lap
It stays last.
It pits at the end of lap 4, yet is right with the field at the end of the race.

The pace that it shows on lap 3 and lap 5 means that is therefore running ~20 seconds quicker on those laps than it runs on laps 1,2,4.
 
The AI is a bastard... I love how if I screw up once... it will pass me, and even though it had been consistently runing a second behind me, and I lose 5 seconds on that lap, I can easily catch it within a lap.. its catch up AI, where the cars get boosted and the likes... to try to keep up... it ruins it when I pick a car that is fairly well matched... but I MUST run perfect laps each time, or the AI will catch me somewhere and bump me going into a corner... :P
 
Jedi2016
I noticed this myself a month or so ago. I was running a race on Seattle II for S&G, in an F1 car. On the first lap, the GT40 Race Car got hung up on one of the turns. On my second lap, I knocked him loose, and he continued to race, a full lap down. From that point on, for the rest of the race (two or three laps), that GT40 was right on my tail, and even passed me a couple of times. I don't care how good a driver you are, ain't no way on God's Green Earth a GT40 can keep pace with a F/094S. But the AI did it.
Click to expand...

The exact thing happened to me with same cars and track combo and yes when I mentioned it everyone slated me saying I should drive faster and stuff but yes it is unreal it seemed to corner slightly slower (than a mid 90s F1 car :crazy: ) but hit about 300mph on the straights.
 
neon_duke
:rolleyes:
Speak for yourself, son.
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daan
No they're not drafting.

Check out the Clio in the Amateur MR race at Tokyo. It pits twice in the 5 laps (other AI pits once.) The sequence usually goes something like this.

It's running last.
It pits at the end of lap 2
It comes out of the pits to start lap 3 and catches up to the rest of the field in that lap
It stays last.
It pits at the end of lap 4, yet is right with the field at the end of the race.

The pace that it shows on lap 3 and lap 5 means that is therefore running ~20 seconds quicker on those laps than it runs on laps 1,2,4.
Click to expand...
Hmm I will have to try this out on Saturday or Sunday for the fun of it since I am way too busy doing too much **** for english honors! :ouch:

Azuremen
The AI is a bastard... I love how if I screw up once... it will pass me, and even though it had been consistently runing a second behind me, and I lose 5 seconds on that lap, I can easily catch it within a lap.. its catch up AI, where the cars get boosted and the likes... to try to keep up... it ruins it when I pick a car that is fairly well matched... but I MUST run perfect laps each time, or the AI will catch me somewhere and bump me going into a corner... :P
Click to expand...

Did you tune your car up?
 
I caught more proof of the Artifical Idiots cheating in the Amateur Turbo Cup. The suspect car was not the Silvia Spec R Aero, but the MR2 GTS. During qualifying, he ran a 2:39.xxx lap time due to having short gearing. I was in a 395 HP Subaru Impreza and turned a 2:05.xxx lap time. A 34 sec difference. Once the race got underway, he was going the exact same speed as in qualifying, but on his 2nd lap, he ran a 2:21.xxx lap time. Now he suddenly was running 18 sec a lap faster while turning the exact same speeds. This is more proof that PD can't program AI if their lives depended on it............
 
There isn't even any need for a thread for this in a way, I thought everyone knows the comp. cheats. I've got a replay of an AI viper team oreca doing a 1:27 *out* lap at Grand Valley I, when driving at the rear of the field and trying to catch up. That is very close to F1 speed.

You know when they are doing it because the speedometer shows normal speed, but the view is like watching everything fast forward on a video recorder. The car moves unnaturally faster than the speed the engine is transmitting to the wheels. AFAIK this only happens when the car is trying to catch up with you, so it's not a huuuge problem. But it is a problem when you are leading with a few laps to go, the guy close behind you pits and gets fresh tyres, then catches you up within 1 lap by going 25 seconds per lap faster. Then he slows down, but of course he will still win, because he has fresh tyres...
 
I think by now it's no longer considered a spoiler that the AI uses certain advantages in GT3...

There are two "effects" that the AI will use to stay close to the "user". One is a form of the "rubber band" effect, or "catch up" feature that is available to 2P or iLink mode. The AI will get an artifical boost when the user is way ahead, and conversely get an artificial "slow down" when the user is way behind.

The latter can be demonstrated as follows: Try entering a 3 Lap race in Arcade mode (Single Race/Normal) with any car. Race the first lap flat out; whether you get the lead or not is not important. When you start the second lap, slow down, and pull off to the side, letting the AI field get well ahead...when they have a sufficient lead, catch up and finish the race. Review the replay, and move the "view" to one of the AI cars. During the first lap, you'll see them running speed comparable to yours. Howvere, during the second lap, you'll see the AI speed drop significantly. This is especially noticable when racing against S-Class cars. When you catch up and blow by them, they will suddenly speed back up to full race speed.

Another "cheat" the AI employ is power multipliers, especially in the Sim Mode. Save any race from Amatuer or Professional league, and d/l the replay to your PC with the Sharkport/Xport device. Open the saved replay with mk's GaragEdit program, and export one of the AI cars to an .ini file. Open that file and check the Power Multiplier line (sorry, don't recall which line that is atm) and you will see that the AI car has a non-default power multiplier. The more your car has been modded, the higher the multiplier the AI will use.
 
No quater, does the power multiplyer vary from race to race in a series race even though your car is kept the same at all races ?
Can someone check the power multiplyer used by the Viper in the first race in Amateur GT world championship and see if it is the same as the last race where the Viper is real fast at catching up.
 

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