demo physics discussion

[TorqueHappenS08]

Another awesome point out.

Braking oversteer is finally in, this has been missing since GT3



Edit: that donut above is the most realistic looking donut i have seen on any Console game to date, The way you can see the weight of the car shift to the back and side is top notch, PD seriously have nailed it this time.

even the way the car breaks off from the donut is realistic.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Braking oversteer is finally in, this has been missing since GT3

Unless you are referring to something else, you can make the car oversteer under braking by adjusting the brake settings in GT5P. Some cars, like the GT-R, even do it without adjustment.

 

[Tapey]

I'd love to see someone pull off 360s and 720s in this demo, it was possible in GT5P as you can see here:



I'm rubbish at stuff like this though

 

[sems4arsenal]

Doubt it. PD will tweak this until the last minute. Even then they might issues "patches" to "fix" the physics still (like Spec. II to III in prologue).

i think you are right polyphony have always been known to make every thing perfect and realistic man i can't wait for that game

 

[blademask]

I love this thread....

"Ok GTTT sucks because of...______"
[debunked with video]
"Ok, so what it still sucks...because I just plain said so!"
[Repeat]

 

[homeforsummer]

I've had a bit of a play around now and I've come away impressed. With the DS3 it was nothing special - just more difficult than GT5P. With a G25, it's very good. The cars feel like they have more weight, traction seems more realistic and the cars seem to react to bumps more naturally, without any of the floaty feeling that GT5P has.

I also find that even in the standard car on the slidy tyres it's much better than the last GT Academy was with the 350Z - for those complaining that the car is sliding about too much you can think yourself lucky you weren't playing with last year's physics! That aside, I think the grip seems just right for the car and tyres. If you're sliding and spinning all over the place then you probably aren't driving smoothly enough, whether you're using the pad or the wheel. It took me a little while to get used to it using both methods of control, but after a few laps you get the hang of it and it feels very natural to drive around.

 

[Tenacious D]

The physics are much more forgiving than I gave the demo credit for. Initially I was harping on about how you couldn't just tromp the gas and brake like a typical video game. Then after a day or two with it, I discovered you still could, if you did it at the right times and gearing, so it's not quite as deadly as some have hinted at.

The best thing though is to drive the 370 like it is a real car. It reacts very much like a real car. It's very close. If you don't like it, then I sincerely doubt you'll like GT5 either, even after further tweaks which we might not get. At that point, I think it's time you move along to any number of other games from Forza on up the ladder. Or, you could figure something out that works for you, like the rest of us have to do.

 

[hot-wok]

I really hope they'll put skidmarks in though, looks silly without it :/ It shouldn't be a thing to even compromise about

 

[nobuffalo]

I'd love to see someone pull off 360s and 720s in this demo, it was possible in GT5P as you can see here:

The 360 degree spin, the one Tiff does in that video, it's quite possible.

So, here's a recap.

Donuts... Check
Powerslide... This I haven't accomplished yet, but Tiff sure does have a big open area.
Adapting powerslide to corners... Check, yes there is a bit of the good old fashioned "tank slapper", but Tiff even talks about this. "Again, this requires practice."
The 360 degree spin... Check, if you don't believe me i'll post a video I guess.

Great video!

Can you pull off those moves in GT5 demo?

Not a chance in hell, physics won't let you, let alone the small margin for error with a G25. In the video you can see how Tiff is correcting with his steering work, you don't have this finesse in the demo.

Still wanna stand by this statement?

And sorry Bekimche if it seems i'm just pointing you out. I'm sure there are still issues with the physics, i'm sure the tire model isn't perfect. I'm not trying to argue these issues as I don't feel I have enough experience both in real life and in game to make any absolute comments. What I do disagree with you on are the statements you are making saying certain things are not possible in the game simply because you cannot do them.

 

[Bekimche]

Sigh...

I should of been more specific. I was talking more about powersliding because that's what I've been posting about mostly. I already knew you could do donuts in the game, just doesn't feel right though. If you see my video you will see why. There are different types of donuts, there's one where you just full lock and full throttle one way and the car goes nuts, or there's the one where you have to use throttle control as if you are spinning around an imaginary cone. My video was just to prove that the tire model does infact need some adjusting and that I think most importantly is the way the wheel (G25 in my case) works in the game. This is probably the biggest issue here. About the powerslides, look carefully at Tiff and how he even goes full throttle to keep the wheels spinning and just adjusts the steering to suit. That sort of steering "finesse" is not present in the game and I find that is the major issue here. Watch even when his entering a corner how he turns in hard and mashes the throttle, then catches it, then applies more throttle to keep the slide going and the rest is just adjusting your throttle and steering. He refers to it as "pump, catch, pump catch". That sort of stuff is absent.

By the way when people here were saying stock cars can't drift and I post a video that proves yes they can, nobody said anything. Stop all this crap! If you read well into someone's post and arguments you can see where that person is coming from. Like the drifting video, I explained what's wrong with that. All this "I proved you wrong, I'm right and you're wrong so shutup" feels like I'm in bloody highschool. Overall the physics are almost there people! As I have said before I can't pin point where the major flaws are coming from but there are flaws guys. I'm sure you all don't think the physics are 100% perfect. Stop talking to each other like we are enemies or something. We all love GT here, so lets help make it bloody perfect.

 

[killanite]

No one said you can't drift stock cars... They just said they were naturally harder to drift ( which is true, If I give you a car that you've never driven before and asked you to drift in it ofcorse you're going to have to practice a while first, and don't be fooled by tiff, he's been doing this for decades, ofcorse he makes it seem easy.) because most companies set their cars to understeer rather than oversteer cause it's generally believe it's the safer and quicker option.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Lol i love it, the people at IGN crying and saying the game sucks because they keep spinning out, Priceless, Keep up the good work PD

 

[arora]

Personally I like the demo physics even though I don't think they're all that close to real life. PD is slowly getting closer though

My gt history;

Played gt2 as a casual lamen burning time, lots of nice stuff in the game for the time.

gt3 gave me the best playing experience I've ever had, sure it had many faults but it was really fun and the physics where better in some ways to the later installments.

gt4 pushed like a snow plow and I think that is where PD has been derailed to some degree. In short, arcade style grip in some situations and usually the rear end was on rails. My bigest complaint at it's hight was the wheel spin with low powered ff's, seriously; 150bhp, 3rd gear, straight line, spinning madly at 30mph I let that go as it was a small draw back to me.

gt5p, never have been able to play it. I'm not gonna put it down just because I can't play it well but I'll say what I think. The cars still push as bad as gt4, instead of getting that more on track it seems to me pd simply made the rear end spin madly and unrealistic. I own a 300bhp+ street car on street tires and can say with confidence that the wheel spin of gt5p is not realistic, and yes I do drive on extreme limits on the road(sorry to offend those who will complain that I endanger lives) I've also had a fair amount of track time with mid range sport racers at the local track. Not that I'm some pro or anything but I do have experience and I do push cars fast enough to crash and burn.

Now on to the demo, I still think the cars understeer and PD is still compensating for that with unrealistic wheel spin in the rear The tunner car also seems to have a little to much lateral grip but not out of reason to me.

I've been a huge gt fan for many years and I'm very excited to see the next installment. I don't believe it will be super close to a real life racing sim but it will be very fun 👍

As for the gt academy, the game is a good way to prepare for real racing but it's not everything nor will any 'sim' ever be, but it's a good start. I could genuinly see someone with no track time but lots of gt demo time having learned quite a bit about how to race and have a jump on a complete noob. I'd take my 20 years behind a real wheel to mean much but then again I can't drive million dollar cars into walls at 200mph on my daily drives either.

 

[Bekimche]

Tiff does make it seem easy doesn't he. Gotta love Tiff. By all means it isn't easy, you need to have some sort of skill, but coming from my real life experience, I cannot express this enough, that it isn't as hard as it is in the game. I think this is more due to a steering wheel problem though. And please, if anybody out there is getting scared or discouraged to drift because of how hard it seems in GT please don't. Take a car to a track and practice if you have the money, it's great fun and you will pick it up after practicing.

casey_2005 you are right. The physics will probably allow you to do those big powerslides, but I'm not sure cause the track won't allow you to test that. I consider myself a good drifter, not great and amazing, but good. I had an R33 gts25t with about 235kw and drifted that fine. I'm just saying the game makes it much harder to drift. Again probably a wheel/setup issue.

To sum up my thoughts about GT5 so far:

General Physics: quite good. some annoyances but quite good
Tire Model: needs some fixing
Wheels/FFB: definitely needs fixing (probably the biggest issue with drifting, probably some sort of steering lock issue who knows)
Graphics: still great even though it's not the full thing
Sound: it's improving which is a good sign, happy

 

[2of9]

I just purchased a Logitech Driving Force GT. I haven't driven a real 350Z yet, but I have driven a G35. Obviously, there are plenty of factors that can disregard the game but it's game that is Simulation to the real model. Anyways, it was a day and night from controller to wheel. Wow, personally, I love driving in the wheel just because steering is just THAT much more crisp and smoother.

As for the 350Z tuned model, I really thought I was going to feel more grip and less over steer. The tire sound effects were improved but didn't do much as they did to grip the car. One concern was that it felt very loose. The rear wheels felt extremely loose during and entering corners with proper braking and acceleration. Now, I know its different, but I've driven a 93 Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo and I have taken it through a small road course with stock suspension + sticky tires all around (225-40-17 fronts / 255 40 17 rears ) and I didn't feel the rears slide that much around the corners. Yes, I know it's different but the fact that this 350Z felt more like it was going through the gears on a straight didn't seem right...it almost seemed like the corner weights were off!??? It may be my steering wheel options/settings, but the 350Z tuned car still felt as if it wants to oversteer than it would grip. I haven't tried a RWD format vehicle in GT5P yet! , but I'll bring my review up as soon as I do so.

 

[Raitziger]

BTW car was 370Z.

 

[2of9]

BTW car was 370Z.

lol...just thought of that when I posted it all. lol.

 

[nobuffalo]

To sum up my thoughts about GT5 so far:

General Physics: quite good. some annoyances but quite good
Tire Model: needs some fixing
Wheels/FFB: definitely needs fixing (probably the biggest issue with drifting, probably some sort of steering lock issue who knows)
Graphics: still great even though it's not the full thing
Sound: it's improving which is a good sign, happy

Since I can't argue with any of that, not saying I want to argue, here's to hoping PD get all the little problems sorted out before big release

And a little 720 for any of you interested, although I will say this felt a bit unrealistic, almost too easy doing a 720 at nearly 120mph.

 

[unv412]

Lol i love it, the people at IGN crying and saying the game sucks because they keep spinning out, Priceless, Keep up the good work PD

My worry is that PD will bow to the masses and dumb the physics down so that the kids with the short attention spans and zero dedication, can say they can drift as good as Tiff

I love it, we go from people saying it's impossible to drift but when someone clearly shows a video of drifting it's not good enough. Next people say you can't do donuts, a video is shown and it's not good enough.

If you can't do donuts and hold them in the game it's because your throttle and steering inputs are not consistant enough. It's possible. I've shown this, no they are not perfect, but neither can I do perfect donuts in real life.

me begining to think GT got some good physics......must get a hold of a PS3

No one said you can't drift stock cars... They just said they were naturally harder to drift ( which is true, If I give you a car that you've never driven before and asked you to drift in it ofcorse you're going to have to practice a while first, and don't be fooled by tiff, he's been doing this for decades, ofcorse he makes it seem easy.) because most companies set their cars to understeer rather than oversteer cause it's generally believe it's the safer and quicker option.

Its also said somewhere that an understeering car is usually quicker around a lap than one that set up for oversteer......I guess I 've just gotta learn to love understeer .....NEVER !!!!!!

 

[Bekimche]

Since I can't argue with any of that, not saying I want to argue, here's to hoping PD get all the little problems sorted out before big release

And a little 720 for any of you interested, although I will say this felt a bit unrealistic, almost too easy doing a 720 at nearly 120mph.

haha nice! It's abit odd that in pretty much every driving game I've played, stunt driving seems alot easier than anything else whether it be an arcade or a simulator. In LFS I can do reverse 180's all day long and it's VERY easy. I wouldn't even attempt anything like that in real life. Strange huh

 

[Tapey]

Since I can't argue with any of that, not saying I want to argue, here's to hoping PD get all the little problems sorted out before big release

And a little 720 for any of you interested, although I will say this felt a bit unrealistic, almost too easy doing a 720 at nearly 120mph.

Ahaha that's exactly what I was talking about. That's so awesome

 

[jakubala]

Guys what concerns the impossibility or better said difficulty of drifting I m starting to shift towards the forcefeedback or wheel "problem" rather than physics problem. Recently I played with joypad and realised the physics have no problem to portray a realistic drift. After little practise I was able to drift with very good control , something I have not mastered with the wheel (with far more practise) yet (naturally I had to use the tuned Z cause it is the only one with dissabled TCS using joypad). What do you think?

 

[Bekimche]

Yeah it's very easy to drift the tuned Z with a controller. But because it goes from lock to lock so quickly it looks strange when countersteering, watch the replay. The wheels look like they're having a fit lol similar to forza 2

 

[jakubala]

I agree it looks strange....definetly does but that aint my point, the point is the game physics IS able to deliver realistic drifts. It s not like let say GT 4 was not able to do brake oversteer.

 

[Tenacious D]

My worry is that PD will bow to the masses and dumb the physics down so that the kids with the short attention spans and zero dedication, can say they can drift as good as Tiff

Something like this needs to go on a huge stickie. And in my sig...

 

[don-sf]

i like the latest gt5 demo, im getting better laps everytime i play.

its not for everyone, im not saying this is true, but from what i have seen there is a very strong correlation between people who are not producing 'decent' lap times and people who are critisizing the physics.

im not an expert, but i do drive a manual car. you never put your put down on the accelerator in real life, otherwise you will wheelspin, and it is like that in the game. if you drive like your driving in real life you will notice smoother laps. i think people are too used to playing other racing games and thats why are finding this one too hard.

anyway those people shouldnt worry, they can just switch to standard physics in the real game.

lol some said earlier this demo was designed to weed out the bad drivers, it certainly is doing just that.

 

[Raitziger]

I made a post in my poll, but i would like some input about this.

"However i would also like to see same kind of FFB info as there is in LFS. Also feel general could be better. Maybe the biggest improvement could be do in "natural tyre positioning"

Ok i explain :
When back does sideways, tyres are trying naturally hold their position to road surface. This means if you let go of wheel when car's back is steping out, steering wheel should move automaticly to counter the slide. Physics in this are quite simple as tyres to road grip force is higher than resistance grip force in steering cloumn. You can not counter every slide just by letting wheel go if angles are high enough. And always you have to straighten the car in right moment so that "weight of the car" wont take you with you in when tyres gain grip again.

Of course the effect differs from car to car but basic dynamics are the same(bad power steering might ruin the fun ) I feel this effect is somewhat missing in the GT5 demo. "

Of course the other nice thing would be more wheel more clearly going light when car understeers.

 

[jakubala]

seems right what you are saing these are the two main issues I ve had with the "comunication with the game" plus the grass is way slippery. Also I have the feeling that when e brake is used the car just overeacts making an instant 18....too quick and uncontrolable.

 

[arora]

Of course the other nice thing would be more wheel more clearly going light when car understeers.

If you're saying what I think, it does that much more so with the power steering turned on. I have a tendancy to oversteer too often and having turned on the power assist I now find a nice chunk of time correcting the wheel input without any ffb.

 

[MartyParty]

Well some one might have suggested this earlier but turning FFB strength down to 1 improved FFB feeling with the G25. It seems that the weak grip information you get drowns when you turn the strength up.