demo physics discussion

[homeforsummer]

Personally I like the demo physics even though I don't think they're all that close to real life....

gt5p, never have been able to play it. I'm not gonna put it down just because I can't play it well but I'll say what I think. The cars still push as bad as gt4, instead of getting that more on track it seems to me pd simply made the rear end spin madly and unrealistic. I own a 300bhp+ street car on street tires and can say with confidence that the wheel spin of gt5p is not realistic, and yes I do drive on extreme limits on the road(sorry to offend those who will complain that I endanger lives) I've also had a fair amount of track time with mid range sport racers at the local track. Not that I'm some pro or anything but I do have experience and I do push cars fast enough to crash and burn.

Now on to the demo, I still think the cars understeer and PD is still compensating for that with unrealistic wheel spin in the rear The tunner car also seems to have a little to much lateral grip but not out of reason to me....

I suspect you're underestimating the speeds you're doing in GT5 and the demo. It's worth remembering that even average pace on the game is akin to balls-out 10/10ths driving in a real car. The limits on GT5P and especially the demo seem very realistic to me - the car only becomes difficult to control right on the limit, which is exactly as it should be. When you back off the pace it grips exactly as it should, and exactly as you'd expect.

 

[Sureboss]

I think the most important thing to remember is that we really don't have the technology (well home-based) to recreate real life physics. But tbh, I think this demo makes a damn good effort. Two different cars, two very different techniques required. I like how the car reacts to that little bump on the exit of T1, you can feel it go light. This demo, to me, shows uber the physics of GT5 are going to be.

 

[arora]

I suspect you're underestimating the speeds you're doing in GT5 and the demo.

Yup, we're probably all guilty of that even so I still stand by my statements. One thing that can never be duplicated with a game is the 'hold on to your shorts' feeling you find in real life and that will never change. Again don't get me wrong, I like the demo physics and think PD is steping closer and closer 👍

 

[Bones Brigade]

I haven't contributed anything since my PS3 stopped working a bit ago, so I won't be playing the demo until I pick another one up when I'm in Oregon in January. (No sales tax.)

I will offer this:

In GT5P, the 350Z was fairly accurate. It was a little too difficult to get the rear end out when getting too heavy footed through the corners. The ease at which you could correct your mistake seemed a little too easy as well. The car was spot on to how my real Z reacted the one time I tracked it. But I was not pushing the limits. The car in the game seemed to react like the real car at about 8/10's the limit.

Now, I did not follow the natural progression and get a 370Z, so I can't compare when I do play the demo.

But from the sound of it, it seems as if this demo is spot on. A lot of people complained about the difficulty of Prologue, and that was easier than real life. And considering that you don't even have to drive a car to it's limits to get sideways and spin, it makes total sense that with a lack of feeling speed or natural forces on your body, many people may be getting too hot too quick - even if it seems you're taking it easy.

<bad reference>
There is a reason the "Stars in the Reasonably Priced Car" drive a fwd econobox. If it were a 370z I'm sure the Top Gear segment would look a lot like some of your (our - once I play) laps in the demo. How often have they should a clip of some star spinning off into the sunset as it is?
</bad reference>

Anyway, I haven't played, so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. It just seems like a lot of people expect driving at the limit to be easier than it is.

 

[homeforsummer]

I like how the car reacts to that little bump on the exit of T1, you can feel it go light..

If I were to pick one area that feels like the biggest improvement from GT5P to the demo, it's how the car now seems to react to bumps rather than just glide over the road surface.

 

[JDMKING13]

If I were to pick one area that feels like the biggest improvement from GT5P to the demo, it's how the car now seems to react to bumps rather than just glide over the road surface.

I agree with you on that!! the thing i like the best with the demo vs GT5P is when driving with the g27 on the GT5 demo it feels like your more connected to the grounds vs GT5P i dont get that connection through out my wheel i love the new physics in GT5 demo when i get lock into the screen its like im really driving lol cant wait for GT5!!

 

[unv412]

I made a post in my poll, but i would like some input about this.

"However i would also like to see same kind of FFB info as there is in LFS. Also feel general could be better. Maybe the biggest improvement could be do in "natural tyre positioning"

Ok i explain :
When back does sideways, tyres are trying naturally hold their position to road surface. This means if you let go of wheel when car's back is steping out, steering wheel should move automaticly to counter the slide. Physics in this are quite simple as tyres to road grip force is higher than resistance grip force in steering cloumn. You can not counter every slide just by letting wheel go if angles are high enough. And always you have to straighten the car in right moment so that "weight of the car" wont take you with you in when tyres gain grip again.

Of course the effect differs from car to car but basic dynamics are the same(bad power steering might ruin the fun ) I feel this effect is somewhat missing in the GT5 demo. "

Of course the other nice thing would be more wheel more clearly going light when car understeers.

the "natural tyre positioning" that you speak of is crutial part of oversteer, which from memory GT5p had FFB in the initial stage of response (G25) but then died and requied too much extra effort. GT5tt I dont know of but LFS shows it quite well.

In real life my 1968 HK Monaro is drifted ( in small amounts ) by letting the steering wheel go and catching it (no power assist spins very fast) and the car tends to lead you........whereas my 1988 HR31 skyline (power assisted but slow to spin in your hands) can be steered to where ever you point it in very long drifts 👍 Probably very difficult to replicate in game

 

[hot-wok]

Since I can't argue with any of that, not saying I want to argue, here's to hoping PD get all the little problems sorted out before big release

And a little 720 for any of you interested, although I will say this felt a bit unrealistic, almost too easy doing a 720 at nearly 120mph.

Love how you can see the suspension working there, looks very realistic though

 

[dimangelogtp]

is there tyre deformation or i need glasses
Its like when the car hops the tyres are deforming please check it and answer

 

[hot-wok]

Well I was just watching some Forza 3 videos of stock cars drifting and man, GT5 is going to be a whole different standard.

 

[tony1311]

Love how you can see the suspension working there, looks very realistic though

Yes,it works...but even if it may look realistic on the replay,it sure as hell doesn't feel realistic when driving it.

Take the stock Z and do some slaloms on the straight with a speed not over 160km/h (100mph)...doesn't it feel like a Kangoo?

 

[arora]

is there tyre deformation or i need glasses
Its like when the car hops the tyres are deforming please check it and answer

Some discussion of that here...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=118819

 

[davissi]

The physics of this demo are dog-awful. they've tried to build in the pendulum effect of the weight on the springs which is a good idea and is needed but they've only programmed in one type of reaction. Its more like NFS:Shift than Gran Turismo but I'm gonna carry on regardless, that's all we have at the moment so I'm happy.👍

 

[Chronos]

Its seems in the tuned car that throwing the car in and sliding is the most effective thing unfortunately.

 

[Stevisiov]

Its seems in the tuned car that throwing the car in and sliding is the most effective thing unfortunately.

I found that out too, its somewhat disappointing, if you don't force oversteer, it has awful understeer. It's hard to say though, it could be car setup related, I only say this, because its not apparent in the normal car. It could be related to poor slick tyre phyiscs, I really hope this isn't the case otherwise racing cars in GT5 could be ruined as a result.

 

[davissi]

I think perhaps there's too many cooks involved in deciding what feels right, I love oversteer like that and sliding about rally style its just up my street but that 'swinging' is well dodgy LOL. If you lose the car a quick left-right of the wheel or a throttle compensation and its back but not in this all that happens is it starts swinging to spec regardless of you corrective inputs. It feels like the cars are full to the brim of water.

Like I said though I don't mind if they did it on purpose its better than having an easy car to drive in these competitions. In general I'm loving this demo and the idea of the competiton and the fact they made the effort to organise it again.

 

[Hereward]

Has anyone had a dig around the net and found a "real world" lap time for a stock Z on this track? Would be interesting to compare the real life time and the average "fast" times on GT5D

 

[krisa9977]

I race production class BMW M3 at Nurburgring VLN endurance series and as real race car driver, I can say that physics in GT5D as good as it could be. I'm sure that people who criticize GT5 physics, just don't know how the car reacts at its limits then you drive it 10/10. It is easier to control the real car because there is much more feedback from G forces and feedback from the real steering wheel. Other then that, in GT5D I don't see any difference with driving a real car.

 

[Cocomoto]

I loved the physics of the demo, but drift is tooo much hard !
I'm not crying, i'm pretty sure if i play it more i can do it, but in GT5P i can do good drifts, no fantastic ones, but good ones.
It's a little strange how the rear spin, i counter steer and it's ok, i carrifuly aply the trhotle and the rear spins outs, sometimes the gas in around 10~20% and even so the rear spins... i don't know, but drifting in GT5P seems more life like.
But in overall, i really liked the demo.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm actually kinda hoping that the physics in the demo are the "all out, hard core simulation" physics seen in the new game. And that there's an option for physics like what we have in Prologue.

Can't believe I am saying this, but after using a wheel for almost a week now, I actually prefer the physics in Prologue over the demo... (handling wise)

 

[CoolColJ]

I'm actually kinda hoping that the physics in the demo are the "all out, hard core simulation" physics seen in the new game. And that there's an option for physics like what we have in Prologue.

Can't believe I am saying this, but after using a wheel for almost a week now, I actually prefer the physics in Prologue over the demo... (handling wise)

Now you understand where I'm coming from haha
There is something odd about the way it feels on the limit with the wheel. using a low Force Feedback level helps a bit. I find 1-3 better

Other than that, when you get locked into the screen, with a wheel, it really does feel like your driving a car! Especially the tuned Z

I just wished it felt as fast as you were actually going. Maybe a wider field of view would help with that. Or some extra motion blur on the screen edges.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm just having a lot of fun in Prologue. Had a great race online tonight, fighting the Mines Skyline for everything I had. I have several cars with great tunes on them that just feel awesome with the wheel.

Then I get on to the TT demo, start slow and push harder and harder every lap. Then I just start spinning all over the place and get frustrated. I've fallen out of the top 15 in the ranks and just don't care anymore. The prize isn't that great anyway, no reason to get myself all upset. I'll just continue to play Prologue until the game comes out, hoping I can play it with Prologue-like physics.

 

[Bekimche]

I'd be more than happy with GT5 with prologue physics

 

[Raitziger]

More and more people are saying there is something wrong in the physics and FFB sucks big time. I wonder have PD even played rfactor or LFS to know how it should feel. I hope top gear reviews the game with g25 to get real driver's take on the phyisics and FFB.

 

[Bekimche]

lol speaking of top gear, they should do another "Game vs Reality" challenge like they did with the NSX when the full game comes out

 

[arora]

More and more people are saying there is something wrong in the physics and FFB sucks big time. I wonder have PD even played rfactor or LFS to know how it should feel. I hope top gear reviews the game with g25 to get real driver's take on the phyisics and FFB.

You must have ment to say.. "to know how I think it should feel"?

The physics are beter then previous gt's imo and the ffb gives at least some feeling of where the road is and when the car is gonna brake loose. I would not be surprised if pd employees have played those games( always a good idea to check out the comp ) but it doesn't mater all that much for a few reasons; pd is very successfull all on there own, Kaz and others have spent time in real life cars and tracks. GT is a good product, pd takes their work more seriously then some think, it's not a money grab.

It would be nice to see some experienced race drivers play the game and give honest opinions of it, not the usual toe the line garbage you always here. Not sure if top gear would be the best platform for that though.

 

[Raitziger]

It would be nice to see some experienced race drivers play the game and give honest opinions of it, not the usual toe the line garbage you always here. Not sure if top gear would be the best platform for that though.

I would too. All that racing driver comments that most developers get are some paid PR mumbo jumbo as with forza 3 e.g.

 

[RedBaron]

After hours and hours I think that new GT physics is great! I am most pleased by disappearing that low speed uncertain flowing of the car when it feels like the sled or brake oversteer coming again. But the physics is very good only until oversteer comes. There isn't any need to dumb the physics down. Only need to fix things that are obviously wrong and should every real FR driver snap into the face. I would be completely happy if there are only few things fixed in full GT5:

- Fix that abrupt and not progressive oversteer physics and make it more controllable during slide (370Z is not any '85 Porsche Turbo)

- Fix that lack of good FFB to feel when to countersteer while initialising slide, when to kill the snapback after slide, to feel the lightness of understeer and to feel all those small bumps which are shaking with cockpit so accurately now. I can feel only weight of the car and few curbs in my G25.

- Fix that tyre model which is wrongly pretending that slicks are more friendly on the limit than road tyres.

- Better equip all road cars at purchase with appropriate tyres corresponding with real car!

If these things were fixed in the final game, I will be the the happiest man on this gt planet

 

[homeforsummer]

More and more people are saying there is something wrong in the physics and FFB sucks big time. I wonder have PD even played rfactor or LFS to know how it should feel. I hope top gear reviews the game with g25 to get real driver's take on the phyisics and FFB.

No they shouldn't. Top Gear would be the worst people in the world to test such a thing. They aren't motoring Gods...

 

[RedBaron]

No they shouldn't. Top Gear would be the worst people in the world to test such a thing. They aren't motoring Gods...

And PD surely did a mistake for their reputation when they equiped NSX with S-grade tyres at purchase while N1's were closest to real car and only N-grade tyres gave NSX an oversteer possibility. Jeremy then tested it and it became quite a fiasco because of unrealistic Laguna Seca times. I can only hope they won't make the same mistake again