Depression and Anxiety Thread

[LeMansAid]

@Vinylshark Essential coping mechanisms that people learn as children will usually not be required as adults, but often stay with us regardless. Worse still, they can grow to affect actions and attitudes not even related to the original use. It's possible that what you are experiencing might not be exactly the same as, but relate back to something that was useful for survival earlier in life. For example, I learned to dodge my father for as long as I possibly could, day to day - only dealing with him when it was completely unavoidable. There was just too much of a likelihood of abuse with any interaction. Current day, I feel that that survival technique has "infected" other areas of life, and that I now avoid merely practical things until they are absolutely unavoidable. Given a month to perform a one day task, I will do it on the last day available. I also leave many emotional and relationship issues unaddressed for as long as they remain avoidable. I could try and try to force myself to stay ahead of those things, timing-wise - but without seeing and dealing with the root cause, it would be a constant battle where there shouldn't be one.

Just a different angle to consider, and only my own made up thoughts - not a professional's.

 

[Imari]

@Vinylshark Essential coping mechanisms that people learn as children will usually not be required as adults, but often stay with us regardless. Worse still, they can grow to affect actions and attitudes not even related to the original use. It's possible that what you are experiencing might not be exactly the same as, but relate back to something that was useful for survival earlier in life. For example, I learned to dodge my father for as long as I possibly could, day to day - only dealing with him when it was completely unavoidable. There was just too much of a likelihood of abuse with any interaction. Current day, I feel that that survival technique has "infected" other areas of life, and that I now avoid merely practical things until they are absolutely unavoidable. Given a month to perform a one day task, I will do it on the last day available. I also leave many emotional and relationship issues unaddressed for as long as they remain avoidable. I could try and try to force myself to stay ahead of those things, timing-wise - but without seeing and dealing with the root cause, it would be a constant battle where there shouldn't be one.

Just a different angle to consider, and only my own made up thoughts - not a professional's.

That's mostly my view on it as well.

To add my two cents on:

Also, while one might develop beyond certain negative responses that you used as a child, if one is placed under enough stress they're still there as the lowest common denominator.

Remember also that children usually aren't taught coping mechanisms explicitly, they just try stuff until they find out what works. While there are some situations in which there is no way to cope well, often there were "better" ways to deal with things if only there was someone kind and wise there to guide and help you.

As children we do the best we can with what life throws at us. It's not our fault that we're forced into some pretty awful thought patterns just to get by.

 

[kikie]

Problem is that there are different causes for depressions, anxiety, psychoses etc... . Some are treatable, some aren't.
Some are caused by a genetic defect, some are the result of traumas, worries, serious mental problems due to a lot of bad luck.

 

[Imari]

Problem is that there are different causes for depressions, axiety, psychoses etc... . Some are treatable, some aren't.
Some are caused by a genetic defect, some are the result of traumas, worries, serious mental problems due to a lot of bad luck.

I was having a similar discussion to this with my psychologist. How do you measure depression in a way that isn't subjective?, I asked. MRIs and some brain chemicals maybe, but mostly you just kind of don't, said he. It's all subjective reporting.

Personally, I'm not sold that what we call "depression" isn't actually a whole multitude of related illnesses that happen to present with similar symptoms. Because we can't really see and measure what's going on in the brain, it's hard to distinguish between them other than throwing treatments out and seeing what sticks. And then how do you tell whether different treatments were effective on different people because they were different illnesses, or simply because of individual patient variability?

Frankly, as far as I can tell the state of the field is still very much in question. There have been some great strides forward in recent years, but they're still a long, long way from the sort of medical expertise that we currently have with bacteria or viruses where your ailment can be analysed, identified and treated with usually not much inaccuracy.

 

[FoRiZon]

Meh

 

[kikie]

I was having a similar discussion to this with my psychologist. How do you measure depression in a way that isn't subjective?, I asked. MRIs and some brain chemicals maybe, but mostly you just kind of don't, said he. It's all subjective reporting.

Personally, I'm not sold that what we call "depression" isn't actually a whole multitude of related illnesses that happen to present with similar symptoms. Because we can't really see and measure what's going on in the brain, it's hard to distinguish between them other than throwing treatments out and seeing what sticks. And then how do you tell whether different treatments were effective on different people because they were different illnesses, or simply because of individual patient variability?

Frankly, as far as I can tell the state of the field is still very much in question. There have been some great strides forward in recent years, but they're still a long, long way from the sort of medical expertise that we currently have with bacteria or viruses where your ailment can be analysed, identified and treated with usually not much inaccuracy.

A few years ago, my personal doctor said that in the future, it is going to be possible to take a biopsy of the brain and find out what is wrong exactly and make the right diagnosis.

At the moment, a depression is a wide concept and not limited to one specific pathological problem. I'm even sure that some people are using the word "depression" for emotional problems that isn't even a depression.

 

[Imari]

A few years ago, my personal doctor said that in the future, it is going to be possible to take a biopsy of the brain and find out what is wrong exactly and make the right diagnosis.

Uh, taking bits of your brain to make a diagnosis is probably exactly what they don't want to be doing. The ideal situation is where they can diagnose through non-destructive methods.

I agree that eventually they'll get to a point where they can accurately diagnose this stuff. But that doesn't help anyone now.

 

[FoRiZon]

So recently I did some quite dangerous things. Namely speeding when Im on my own (cars or motorcycle), take potentially dangerous things like bungee jumping without any scared feel, no frighten feel when traveling on unknown places, and general erraticness. All i did on summer

Is that a sign of depression?

 

[kikie]

Uh, taking bits of your brain to make a diagnosis is probably exactly what they don't want to be doing. The ideal situation is where they can diagnose through non-destructive methods.

I agree that eventually they'll get to a point where they can accurately diagnose this stuff. But that doesn't help anyone now.

Exactly what my doctor said. You never know if you damage the brain or not by doing a brain biopsy. I believe, but I'm not sure, that he also said something about some sort of scanner that will be able to scan the brain very, very detailed and the inner workings of the brain and make a diagnosis from the scans.

So recently I did some quite dangerous things. Namely speeding when Im on my own (cars or motorcycle), take potentially dangerous things like bungee jumping without any scared feel, no frighten feel when traveling on unknown places, and general erraticness. All i did on summer

Is that a sign of depression?

No.

 

[FoRiZon]

Interesting article about social perfectism.

http://mosaicscience.com/story/male-suicide

 

[GTboyz]

Been in a lot of ups and downs. Browsing reddit r/depression sometimes feels both good and depressing. Feels good sometimes that you can relate to people and trying to give them some advice that you hope can help them, even just a bit but reading the posts also feels depressing sometimes. Lots of people suffering from this but i don't think the majority of public seems to know how serious this issue is.

Also, it seems this thing is feeding my anger problems.

 

[VBR]

I believe I've posted this video before but it is pretty important information, so I'm posting this video again:

That's interesting, as inflamation is one of the causes/contributory factors for some people with depression.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37166293?ocid=socialflow_facebook

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...-allergic-reaction-inflammation-immune-system


The truth is that for many people Depression is just a symptom of a physical illness.

 

[JohnBM01]

I see/hear people say to exercise to help treat your depression. Fact is... if you're depressed, you probably can't focus your mind towards exercise or some other kind of methods to lessen the effects of your depression, let alone exercise. So this is where you will need several other plans and ideas to help yourself. Time to make those Plan B's, Plan C's, maybe even Plans D and above in these situations. More than anything is trying to get in a certain mindset to help treat your depression or depression symptoms. Without these mindsets, you're not going to overcome your depression.

 

[Michael88]

I see/hear people say to exercise to help treat your depression. Fact is... if you're depressed, you probably can't focus your mind towards exercise or some other kind of methods to lessen the effects of your depression, let alone exercise.

Exercise isn't a monumental effort, you can start as small as you like and then slowly increase intensity if you like it. Eventually there will be a point you either get hooked to it and you want to do it - or you decide you don't like it.
People often treat like exercise is something you have to force yourself to, something you have to spend lots of energy on - Beyond a certain point that won't be the case anymore, you'll be looking forward to exercising and it will increase your energy levels. Motivation will kick in hard when you see first results and realize you'll get back exactly what you put into your training 100%. Few things in life are that efficient in gratification.
In fact for a lot of people motivation becomes so great it can create problems.

Its just a little hill at the very beginning.

Of course, if you are so severely depressed that you can't even find the energy to - or are unwilling to try anything new that might help you to lessen the effects of depression self-help has become impossible and you need the help from professionals to get you back on your feet.

 

[MoLiEG]

Well, waifu is again in a Depressive Mode...

I'm both sad and terrified, since this happened today and she is not picking up the phone...

I fear she might try to hurt herself or something we talked a little bit via Skype, she thinks she needs meds, a doctor, Tafil and stuff...

Ideas?

 

[Michael88]

Well, waifu is again in a Depressive Mode...

I'm both sad and terrified, since this happened today and she is not picking up the phone...

I fear she might try to hurt herself or something we talked a little bit via Skype, she thinks she needs meds, a doctor, Tafil and stuff...

Ideas?

Stay with her, help her. Don't just call her via phone.

 

[Imari]

Exercise isn't a monumental effort, you can start as small as you like and then slowly increase intensity if you like it. Eventually there will be a point you either get hooked to it and you want to do it - or you decide you don't like it.
People often treat like exercise is something you have to force yourself to, something you have to spend lots of energy on - Beyond a certain point that won't be the case anymore, you'll be looking forward to exercising and it will increase your energy levels. Motivation will kick in hard when you see first results and realize you'll get back exactly what you put into your training 100%. Few things in life are that efficient in gratification.
In fact for a lot of people motivation becomes so great it can create problems.

Its just a little hill at the very beginning.

Of course, if you are so severely depressed that you can't even find the energy to - or are unwilling to try anything new that might help you to lessen the effects of depression self-help has become impossible and you need the help from professionals to get you back on your feet.

The thing is, a big part of depression is the lack of motivation. And it's not like for a normal person where you can work yourself up to it, or get in the zone or whatever. These things don't work because all the normal feedback systems that you're talking about just don't work properly.

There's also the fact that you have to be doing a reasonable amount of fairly intense aerobic exercise for an extended period of time to see results. ~20mins a day for 3 months is what I've been told. That's not trivial.

My personal experience is that I can do it fine if I'm on my meds because then my brain works more or less like a normal person. It can be a bit tough sometimes, but I'm reasonably fit and I just work through it.

If I go off my meds for a couple of days and am depressed again, exercise for even 5 minutes is a horrible, horrible ordeal. Probably I don't make it as far as 5 minutes, because all my muscles feel exhausted and my brain is screaming at me to stop. I've had instances where I get tired walking a couple hundred metres. I know in my head that it's all BS because I could exercise fine a few days ago, but it's like telling someone not to be scared. It's not really something you have control over, it's just something your brain throws at you when it's freaking out and you have to deal with it as best you can.

Some people are straight up beyond the point where exercise is a viable treatment option. It's always worth trying, and it's actually a reasonably good way to judge the magnitude of your depression on a daily basis. But exercise absolutely can be a monumental effort.

Getting out of bed can be a monumental effort some days. That may sound stupid to you, but I hope that you never have to find out how true it is.

Well, waifu is again in a Depressive Mode...

I'm both sad and terrified, since this happened today and she is not picking up the phone...

I fear she might try to hurt herself or something we talked a little bit via Skype, she thinks she needs meds, a doctor, Tafil and stuff...

Ideas?

Help her try and get the things she thinks she needs. She has a decent chance of being right, and at the very least it gives her some agency in her life.

 

[LeMansAid]

@MoLiEG I've skimmed over your history in this thread, and a few things occur to me.

She wants me to make another marriage proposal. Because she did not like what I did when I gave her her engament ring back in october.

She said she was veeeery disappointed with the way I gave it to her, she said it felt like just another dinner. Sure, it was just another dinner, with all the roses I gave her, in a nice hotel outside Mexico City, and with us all alone in the hotel's restaurant, with a great view of the hotel's garden... yeah, just another dinner.

We are already engaged. Proposed her on October best day of our lives.

These two posts come across as at odds with each other. Has she changed her view of how the proposal unfolded, or have you changed her view of it in your mind?

I obviously wasn't there, so cannot attest to whether or not it was sufficiently romantic by typical standards, but does she adhere to typical standards? It's very common for people to not understand the love-showing "language" of another. One person, for example, might want hugs and closeness when they're upset, while the other might need alone time. It can make for a lot of difficulty in trying to be helpful. Give the former their space (as per the latter's language), and they will feel neglected and unloved. Give the latter hugs and closeness (as per the former's language), and they will feel "suffocated" and ultimately, agitated.

This plays out in lots of different ways, including what registers as romantic or giving. Some people value time and effort, some simply value dollar amounts, some value style and charm. Some reverence, some irreverence........



"Is that a yes or what, arsehole?" is likely not a typically romantic thing to say, but so what? Know your audience. This may have been the best possible proposal she could have imagined. She may have loved the fact that he put thought into it, and that his thoughts were not all towards a typical, overblown, generic romanticism. She also may have hated it, and put on a great act. I don't know, but the point is that if it's not using a language we understand, we won't see it at all, and the giver will probably be confused as to why we didn't respond as hoped.

This, by the way, has nothing directly to do with depression. That said, I think it's fairly plain to see that if dealing with someone with depression, realising what their "language" is and isn't, could be extremely valuable.

 

[Michael88]

The thing is, a big part of depression is the lack of motivation. And it's not like for a normal person where you can work yourself up to it, or get in the zone or whatever. These things don't work because all the normal feedback systems that you're talking about just don't work properly.

If working out is the only thing that makes you briefly forget about your depression the motivation for it can become extremely high, much higher than any non-depressed person could ever have.
I am clinically depressed - getting out of bed feels like climbing a cold, windy mountain, every single day in the office feels like a never ending, futile war that wears me down to the bone, even simple things like eating feels like pure torture.

Exercise, an activity that distracts me so much and puts me in another world completely so that I forget my depression feels like salvation, and if its only 2 hours / day. I'm a very depressed person but for the very few things that do me good my motivation is near limitless.

 

[Imari]

If working out is the only thing that makes you briefly forget about your depression the motivation for it can become extremely high, much higher than any non-depressed person could ever have.
I am clinically depressed - getting out of bed feels like climbing a cold, windy mountain, every single day in the office feels like a never ending, futile war that wears me down to the bone, even simple things like eating feels like pure torture.

Exercise, an activity that distracts me so much and puts me in another world completely so that I forget my depression feels like salvation, and if its only 2 hours / day. I'm a very depressed person but for the very few things that do me good my motivation is near limitless.

Good for you. Do you think that your experience with exercise is applicable to anyone with depression?

 

[LeMansAid]

Good for you. Do you think that your experience with exercise is applicable to anyone with depression?

Absolutely with you on what's implied here. Another's equivalent escape could well be the overeating of comfort food. It's kind of just dumb luck as to what each of our escapism things are, and some of us unfortunately merely dig deeper holes for ourselves with what ours are.

 

[Michael88]

Good for you. Do you think that your experience with exercise is applicable to anyone with depression?

Anyone with depression who decided to cope withe exercise. Which is a whole lot of people.

I think it would work great for nearly all the depressed, there is a reason exercise is such a popular ''therapy''. It just works really well.

 

[FoRiZon]

Anyone with depression who decided to cope withe exercise. Which is a whole lot of people.

I think it would work great for nearly all the depressed, there is a reason exercise is such a popular ''therapy''. It just works really well.

No.

Exercising is not only the "cure". What you love is. Example if you love drawing or look at it, then doing it can make your life better.

 

[Dan]

Example if you love drawing or look at it, then doing it can make your life better.

What if a depressed artist constantly compares themselves to others? It's not easy to break that cycle.

 

[Exorcet]

Anyone with depression who decided to cope withe exercise. Which is a whole lot of people.

If it's not literally everyone that benefits, then in some instances you might not be giving the right advice.

Let's not get hung up on labels and grouping. Many have posted in this thread about their experience with depression and you could use that to put them all into the same group. I feel like I see a fair amount of variation between each person though. Generalization is only helpful where there is an absence of information.

In any case, sharing what works is good. I would just be cautious with claims about the results when they don't take into account the situation of a specific person.

 

[Michael88]

No.

Exercising is not only the "cure". What you love is. Example if you love drawing or look at it, then doing it can make your life better.

I've never used the word ''cure'', nor did I ever say its the only way, don't put words in my mouth and do not try to misinterpret my posts so hard.

What I said is its one of the best ways to distract yourself from your depression. Its certainly not the only way but with few exceptions every depressed person would greatly benefit from doing sports.

 

[LeMansAid]

I've never used the word ''cure'', nor did I ever say its the only way, don't put words in my mouth and do not try to misinterpret my posts so hard.

What I said is its one of the best ways to distract yourself from your depression. Its certainly not the only way but with few exceptions every depressed person would greatly benefit from doing sports.

I agree that words were put in your mouth, and that you only ever presented exercise as an escape, and a coping mechanism.

If anything the last series of posts here should teach us something - how hard is for "outsiders" to understand depression. That you, as a sufferer, would state "Exercise isn't a monumental effort" goes to show that even "insiders" can be "outsiders". Some people react to depression by throwing themselves at their work, others totally shut down. Some focus their energy on one sole thing, others are completely scattered. We need to respect the fact that it screws us over in different ways, and that anything remotely equal to comments like "Just get on with it" from those completely free of depression, will present as having a lack of understanding of the breadth of depression's tyranny.

 

[Imari]

Anyone with depression who decided to cope withe exercise. Which is a whole lot of people.

I think it would work great for nearly all the depressed, there is a reason exercise is such a popular ''therapy''. It just works really well.

The reason it's a popular therapy is that it can be effective, and it has no cost or side effects. Under such conditions people would be silly not to try it, but it doesn't mean that it works for everyone. Effectiveness generally varies a lot depending on the severity of the depression, as well as the type and whether the person is naturally sedentary or active.

What I said is its one of the best ways to distract yourself from your depression. Its certainly not the only way but with few exceptions every depressed person would greatly benefit from doing sports.

Certainly. But what I was pointing out is that it isn't as simple as that. Look at some of the things you said:

Exercise isn't a monumental effort...

Yeah, for some of us it really is.

Eventually there will be a point you either get hooked to it and you want to do it - or you decide you don't like it.

No, not necessarily.

People often treat like exercise is something you have to force yourself to, something you have to spend lots of energy on - Beyond a certain point that won't be the case anymore, you'll be looking forward to exercising and it will increase your energy levels.

Notice how you're assuming that your experience will be the same for others? And that it has no situation in which it can be said to be ineffective; if you're not seeing results then you simply have to try harder to reach that.

Motivation will kick in hard when you see first results and realize you'll get back exactly what you put into your training 100%. Few things in life are that efficient in gratification.

Your experience. Not that of everyone. Not even that of most, I would dare to say.

Its just a little hill at the very beginning.

Way to minimise other people's effort.

Maybe it was a little hill for you. It wasn't for me, and I wouldn't tell anyone else who was struggling to exercise that it's just a little hill. It's a big deal, and minimising what people go through to achieve things when they're depressed is exactly why depressed people don't want to talk about what they're going through. Because what can be incredibly hard for someone who is depressed can be really easy for someone who isn't, and they just don't have the empathy to see that.

Kind of like you. You don't have the empathy to see how something that was easy for you could be so hard for others, even though you've presumably experienced exactly the same thing with other areas of your depression.

Going to work? Easy. Just get in there and start working and it'll be fine.
Eating? I mean, what sort of person doesn't love eating a lovely delicious meal? What is wrong with you?
Getting out of bed is tough? It's the same for everyone, just grit your teeth and get on with it.
/sarcasm

It sucks when people assume that things that are really hard for you because of your illness are actually fine if you'd just try a little harder. Because that's how it works for them, so it must be the same for you, right? Everyone is totally the same and absolutely responds to the same treatments.

Get off your high horse and realise that while it's helpful to share things that have worked for you so that others can try them, saying that everyone is helped by exercise is just bollocks. Everyone should try, but they shouldn't beat themselves up if it's too hard. And the last people who should be sticking it to them are other depression sufferers. You of all people should know better.

 

[MoLiEG]

@MoLiEG I've skimmed over your history in this thread, and a few things occur to me.


These two posts come across as at odds with each other. Has she changed her view of how the proposal unfolded, or have you changed her view of it in your mind?

I obviously wasn't there, so cannot attest to whether or not it was sufficiently romantic by typical standards, but does she adhere to typical standards? It's very common for people to not understand the love-showing "language" of another. One person, for example, might want hugs and closeness when they're upset, while the other might need alone time. It can make for a lot of difficulty in trying to be helpful. Give the former their space (as per the latter's language), and they will feel neglected and unloved. Give the latter hugs and closeness (as per the former's language), and they will feel "suffocated" and ultimately, agitated.

This plays out in lots of different ways, including what registers as romantic or giving. Some people value time and effort, some simply value dollar amounts, some value style and charm. Some reverence, some irreverence........



"Is that a yes or what, arsehole?" is likely not a typically romantic thing to say, but so what? Know your audience. This may have been the best possible proposal she could have imagined. She may have loved the fact that he put thought into it, and that his thoughts were not all towards a typical, overblown, generic romanticism. She also may have hated it, and put on a great act. I don't know, but the point is that if it's not using a language we understand, we won't see it at all, and the giver will probably be confused as to why we didn't respond as hoped.

This, by the way, has nothing directly to do with depression. That said, I think it's fairly plain to see that if dealing with someone with depression, realising what their "language" is and isn't, could be extremely valuable.

I know it sounds confusing, I know, but thats what happened. Almost one year ago when I proposed to her, she said it was beautiful. We were both extremely happy. A few weeks after that happened, she said she didn't like it

Long story short, what she told me is that she expected a Disney-like proposal. She said other girls she knows got extremely beautiful proposals, and say that hers, in comparison, was just "a dinner", and that she even felt ashamed to tell how was it... She asked me why it wasn't so special, and then again I said "Well, we went for a weekend trip, watched a movie, gave you the most gigantic floral arrangement I could afford (a giant heart made of red roses), a love letter, a beautiful ring... wasn't that beautiful enough? "

Sometimes, I'm not going to lie, I think I over react a little bit. But I over react because she over reacts to things. Every time something happens that can be bad or can upset her, or everytime she gets sad or angry about something, I get extremely agitated. And I wasn't like that when we began dating. With time, my reaction has become worse, because she over reacts to everything.

She expects 0 problems, and every time one shows up, or every time I end up doing something "bad" or "wrong", she becomes mad, very, very mad, and I mentally, that makes go into my "Not again" mode, where I go from sadness, then to frustation, then to rage, and then to sadness again until we work things up. And that's only when we have problems or I do "bad things".

She has personally told me she has anxiety and depression problems, and that at some point in the past she got some pills prescripted to treat them. She has also told me (and I've personally experienced it, too) that she gets extremely bad tempered when she has her period.

On the other side, and just like you told me, her mom and her dad told me that she simply has a bad temper and that she needs to calm down and not get angry about the simple things she labels as "bad", and that it has nothing to do with anxiety or depression

And finally, some friends, co-workers and my parents think she simply is a me-person, that everything has to revolve around her, like some kind of diva.

Overall, I gotta say I still have no idea why she gets so angry and/or so sad given the circumstances, but yeah, sometimes I fear or think of the worst because she has somehow "infected" me with her manners...

Sorry for the long wall of text, thanks for your time

 

[FoRiZon]

Ignore