Digital Foundry v GranTurismo 6

[phil_75]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-vs-gran-turismo-6

What we've been waiting for!

As i thought, pushed graphics too far at the expense of framerate.

 

[amar212]

Well balanced article.

I personally hope for further optimizations down the line, same as we got with GT5.

 

[axl54]

So it runs worse than Gt5. I don't get why they increased the resolution by 12% when the game is dropping down to 40fps at times, causing input lag.

PD's unfinished business with the Ps3 remains that way.

 

[eSZee]

Gran Turismo 6 certainly suggests that Polyphony Digital has learned some valuable lessons in transitioning across generations this time out - creating assets at a quality higher than could be fully appreciated on PlayStation 3 certainly makes a strong case for this.

Looking toward the future is a smart move but one must think that the resulting shortcomings in GT5/6 will negatively affect the success of GT7.

 

[DingoDile]

GT6 arrived with a wealth of new content along with numerous changes and improvements to the underlying technology - we're seeing state-of-the-art features that aren't even present in the next-gen Forza Motorsport 5.

there's a sense that GT6's assets were created very much with the future in mind: between the incredibly detailed premium car models, the advanced lighting solution, and the beautiful post-processing utilised in replays, it's fair to say that a boost to image quality and performance alone could make for a convincingly high-end PS4 title. Many of these details were necessarily curtailed by limitations of the PlayStation 3 hardware, but the systems that have been created here seem to be a great fit for its successor.

Gran Turismo 6 certainly suggests that Polyphony Digital has learned some valuable lessons in transitioning across generations this time out - creating assets at a quality higher than could be fully appreciated on PlayStation 3 certainly makes a strong case for this. The inclusion of features such as adaptive tessellation, which could become genuinely practical on PS4, only serves to further cement this position. By further refining the lighting, shadows, and track detail while increasing resolution and performance levels, we could be looking at a proper PlayStation 4 sequel.

 

[LVracerGT]

I think it's time Sony seriously considers making some changes inside PD, either that or PD needs to just accept the fact they are falling short in almost every area of the game and make the changes themselves. One of the most prestigious studios with a near endless budget and unrestricted development cycle shouldn't turn out titles this incomplete and buggy.

The verdict of the article says it all. After all this time, and with the PS4 now on shelves, PD still hasn't figured out how to balance the resources to get 60fps. Sad, IMO.

 

[Tenacious D]

So it runs worse than Gt5. I don't get why they increased the resolution by 12% when the game is dropping down to 40fps at times, causing input lag.

This puzzles me too. The only thing I can think of is that they thought they could pull it off without a hit in quality and performance. Then when release time got close, they found out otherwise, and decided to let it go without a delay. Which I'm sure would have had the world banging on their castle gates day and night.

There are quite a few things that need fixing. Besides framerate being clobbered, there are the strobing light sources which are truly eye gouging, the bad shadows, the overly dark lighting towards sunset and other times - Ascari at 10:30am looks as dark as pre-dawn! And other things I don't recall right off hand. And then there are design decisions, like having most of the replay cameras at waist level or LOWER! Gah, I hate that with a passion.

Even with all the issues though, I love the game and am glad I have it this early. Waiting another year... why, I might have to break down and play some of those other games I own.

 

[Maddens Raiders]

Loving GT6. GT7 will blow us away.

 

[sumbrownkid]

For all its problems, GT6 still manages to hold its voodoo over me for some reason.

Honestly I don't think GT7 will be that much of an upgrade in visuals besides being smoother in frames and detail on the trackside.

 

[Zuku]

I think it's time Sony seriously considers making some changes inside PD, either that or PD needs to just accept the fact they are falling short in almost every area of the game and make the changes themselves. One of the most prestigious studios with a near endless budget and unrestricted development cycle shouldn't turn out titles this incomplete and buggy.

The verdict of the article says it all. After all this time, and with the PS4 now on shelves, PD still hasn't figured out how to balance the resources to get 60fps. Sad, IMO.

PD has more problems than getting steady 60fps that's the least of their worries.

 

[Tenacious D]

Honestly I don't think GT7 will be that much of an upgrade in visuals besides being smoother in frames and detail on the trackside.

Pure graphics, no, other than what you mentioned. A higher poly and texture budget will enable them to make some truly lifelike trackside details, and on cars too. With that, we could see the same post processing used in replays in-game, or close to it, making all the visuals quite pretty. Even in GT6, a flyover of Willow Springs or Bathurst is breathtaking, and this is on relatively archaic hardware.

But a big leap PS4 will allow PD to accomplish is load up the environment with life. Spectators can have more detail and move more independently. Foliage, flags and other objects can move realistically to dynamic winds, and these can have an impact on cars on the track too. Weather effects can be much better, and precipitation can have realistic effects, including puddling and evaporation rates. Oh, and my favorite looked-for feature, light sources, many of them casting their own light, such as a number of cars with their own headlight beams lighting up the surroundings, not just one or two. And such powerful hardware won't have to deal with the need of kids to push the performance as far as it can, and should sit fairly comfortably at 1080p running 60fps.

Then again, it depends on what Kaz and the team want to do. If they shoot for the stars and have more than 24 cars on track at the expense of some graphic performance, that would be an issue. But that would be an issue I'd love to see!

 

[sumbrownkid]

Yeah I'd rather have more cars to race against.

And maybe...JUST MAYBE...the AI is actually somewhat competent.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Very interesting article, as always from Digital Foundry.

Amazes me how this is well received here. People, inside GTP, are saying things like that over the last few months and they're being treated as trolls.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah I'd rather have more cars to race against.

And maybe...JUST MAYBE...the AI is actually somewhat competent.

Uhm... A.I., yeah, that's another question.

Personally, I expect GT6 bots but faster, though if they can just keep them from braking too soon too hard in turns and taking them too slow, that would be perfect for me. What I'm hoping that PD does is have the team hand tune the bots by "teaching" them to race, assigning groups of them to perform a little slow, a group rather fast, a group a little faster, and then a crop of pros that race more or less to their potential. And then either a difficulty level could be used, or the range of cars available could be the difficulty once again, since some perform better than others. Kaz and a few pro racers, and some of the team who are exceptional would be great "instructors."

Amazes me how this is well received here. People, inside GTP, are saying things like that over the last few months and they're being treated as trolls.

Well, it depends on what you mean. Criticizing a game that isn't released yet isn't really sensible. Now that the game is out, it's a little different. Maybe I haven't been called out as a troll because I'm a little more reasonable in my criticism.

 

[mikeonthebike]

Very interesting article, as always from Digital Foundry.

Amazes me how this is well received here. People, inside GTP, are saying things like that over the last few months and they're being treated as trolls.

Good read. And yep ive kept my mouth shut till yesterday. I knew something was wrong and it was driving me crazy, the fps drop has been making me feel like ive been closing my eyes at the worst possible times when they were wide open. I am going to try dropping to 720p and see how that goes.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Well, it depends on what you mean. Criticizing a game that isn't released yet isn't really sensible. Now that the game is out, it's a little different. Maybe I haven't been called out as a troll because I'm a little more reasonable in my criticism.

Isn't amazing?

People that criticize the game before the launch predicted its shortcomings before the release date.

And, guess what, they were right.

And then there are design decisions, like having most of the replay cameras at waist level or LOWER! Gah, I hate that with a passion.

Agreed.

I really think that they should make the replay angles look more like a broadcasting setup. Feels more right, more realistic, IMO.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No suprises whatsover in that Digital Foundry analysis. As someone already pointed out, PD has bigger issues to deal with in GT6 than graphics.

 

[MeanElf]

I think it's time Sony seriously considers making some changes inside PD, either that or PD needs to just accept the fact they are falling short in almost every area of the game and make the changes themselves. One of the most prestigious studios with a near endless budget and unrestricted development cycle shouldn't turn out titles this incomplete and buggy.

The verdict of the article says it all. After all this time, and with the PS4 now on shelves, PD still hasn't figured out how to balance the resources to get 60fps. Sad, IMO.

How do you come out with PD being incompetant after reading that...falling short in almost every area for trying harder?

GT6 arrived with a wealth of new content along with numerous changes and improvements to the underlying technology - we're seeing state-of-the-art features that aren't even present in the next-gen Forza Motorsport 5.

there's a sense that GT6's assets were created very much with the future in mind: between the incredibly detailed premium car models, the advanced lighting solution, and the beautiful post-processing utilised in replays, it's fair to say that a boost to image quality and performance alone could make for a convincingly high-end PS4 title. Many of these details were necessarily curtailed by limitations of the PlayStation 3 hardware, but the systems that have been created here seem to be a great fit for its successor.

Gran Turismo 6 certainly suggests that Polyphony Digital has learned some valuable lessons in transitioning across generations this time out - creating assets at a quality higher than could be fully appreciated on PlayStation 3 certainly makes a strong case for this. The inclusion of features such as adaptive tessellation, which could become genuinely practical on PS4, only serves to further cement this position. By further refining the lighting, shadows, and track detail while increasing resolution and performance levels, we could be looking at a proper PlayStation 4 sequel.

 

[Airetam]

I think it's amazing that the ps3 can pull GT6's graphics at 1080p above 40fps.
Keep in mind that there's plenty of games that can't even hold 30fps on 720p, even with much worse graphics.

Remember that the hardware is old, and the cell processor is supposedly a 🤬 to develop on.

 

[sparkytooth]

I really hope PD can achieve their Absolution with the PS4, they have all the right cards at hand:

Easy to develop console (PC like architecture), tons more RAM and power than the old console, future proofing practices already in play by the PS3 era. The Future is looking bright.

 

[LVracerGT]

How do you come out with PD being incompetant after reading that...falling short in almost every area for trying harder?

Research all the bugs and glitches still present in GT6. They 5 years to develop GT5, GT6 is a continuation of the foundation they built with GT5 (another 2 years later) and still has tons of issues.

For example, Naughty Dog created Uncharted 1,2,3 AND The Last Of Us in the same amount of time, looks just as good if not better IMO, and I never encountered ONE game breaking let alone annoying bug during any of those 4 titles.

PD has one of the biggest budgets in the video game industry with a virtually non-existent time table. They aren't making smart decisions with their development, putting super high graphics and car models that are using up WAY too many resources which doesn't leave much to get everything else right. Doesn't take rocket science.

 

[eran0004]

Amazes me how this is well received here. People, inside GTP, are saying things like that over the last few months and they're being treated as trolls.

Might be because that is a balanced and well-worded article and it doesn't endlessly go on about how "incompetent" and "lazy" the developers are, or who should be fired and why.

 

[dr_slump]

So it runs worse than Gt5. I don't get why they increased the resolution by 12% when the game is dropping down to 40fps at times, causing input lag.

PD's unfinished business with the Ps3 remains that way.

About 0.03 seconds lag is incredible indeed. It's not the 40fps, it's because it's not constant.

For example, Naughty Dog created Uncharted 1,2,3 AND The Last Of Us in the same amount of time, looks just as good if not better IMO, and I never encountered ONE game breaking let alone annoying bug during any of those 4 titles.

Items floating on trees, impossible to get platinum, creatures randomly disappearing, autosave bug, checkpoint/script didn't load, tons of glitched animations... that's just from TLOU.

Great game, but it did have problems.

 

[Ignition]

I think the rise to 1480x1080P was a little too ambitious on PD's part, a technical feat on the current hardware, but one which comes at the cost of FPS drops (on some courses anyway).

When the majority of PS3 games really struggle to maintain 30FPS, I personally don't find this too problematic. If this was running on anything but a PS3 or Xbox 360 however, I may not be so lenient.

 

[Griffith500]

I personally enjoyed the comment about RAM and sounds, but yeah, good article. Glad I'm not the only one who thought PD were playing the long game.

 

[sparkytooth]

How is RAM tied to car sounds?

 

[axl54]

@drslump, Where are you getting that .01 figure from.

The frame-rate dips here are just too jarring at times, impacting the interface between player and game, introducing too much inconsistency into the way the cars handle from one race to the next.

The above is from the article's conclusion, sounds a bit more serious than .01 seconds of input lag to me, and it's something that I noticed myself while playing through the game.

 

[phil_75]

I personally enjoyed the comment about RAM and sounds, but yeah, good article. Glad I'm not the only one who thought PD were playing the long game.

I thought you might

Good call:tup:

 

[solidboss07]

Well we already knew what to expect from this much awaited evaluation. It doesn't take away any of my enjoyment of GT6. Since GT6 came out I could easily spot drops in performance, I am glad DF think like me in that although clearly present then any dips are less impacting than in GT5, I have consistantly described it as 'less jarring'. I wondered if my fanboism blinded me to the extent of GT6's flaws.
I think I will set my PS3 to 720 now. It doesn't matter what htz it runs at, it is when it fluctuates that causes me distress, Zuzuka in GT5 really used to get on my nerves, better in GT6.

 

[phil_75]

@drslump, Where are you getting that .01 figure from.



The above is from the article's conclusion, sounds a bit more serious than .01 seconds of input lag to me, and it's something that I noticed myself while playing through the game.

@drslump, Where are you getting that .01 figure from.



The above is from the article's conclusion, sounds a bit more serious than .01 seconds of input lag to me, and it's something that I noticed myself while playing through the game.

From DFs controller latency article:

The lowest latencies a video game can have is 50ms (three frames) - the PS3 XMB runs at this rate, but few games reach it.

Most 60FPS games have a 66.67ms latency - Ridge Racer 7, for example.

30FPS games have a minimum potential lag of 100ms, but many exceed this.

Game developers should test their own games using the camera technique in order to weed out bugs - West says that Heavenly Sword's response slows down to 300ms just by turning the character, and reckons it's a technical issue that should have been resolved before going gold with the game.

Citing GTAIV as an example, West suggests that a 166ms response is where gamers notice controller lag, which could also explain the Killzone 2 furore too.