DiRT Rally 2.0 General Discussion

[doblocruiser]

Those guys are aliens. I'm only a casual earthling.

I need the advantage of better equipment. The G27 wheel is probably more than enough but I definitely need a load cell brake pedal. A hydraulic brake pedal is IMHO overkill. A load cell brake pedal is more than enough.

Expensive gear doesn't make you faster. Practise does

 

[Ali]

How much of that is just the sub-bar FFB combined with a familiarity with DR1 though? I love how they drive in DR1 but in terms of realism the DR1 cars were a lot faster than they should have been, and more forgiving, especially the older cars. In DR2 they are slower and they feel heavier, it might make them feel less exciting to drive but would also be more realistic.

I don't really think so much that the handling feels wrong, I spent a good couple hours just driving the MK2 last night, pacenotes turned off, just driving along getting a feel for it and I got into a real flow, you can steer it on the throttle just like you would expect, though the default setup is worse than in DR1 and of course you have to drive it with more care.

I never really found DR1 realistic at all, it was challenging and somewhat fun though. In DR2 I'm getting snap oversteer really often and most of the time I can't tell why. I'll try some of the RWD cars again and see if I can get a feel for it...

I was challenged on social media to complete a stage in Argentina with the Aston Martin without swearing. Admit: I failed not once but multiple times.
At the end performed a reasonable stint with a 2:31:254 . Lost at least two liters of moisture (aka sweat...). And then realizing you're still 3,5 seconds behind #1 on the leaderboard [/MEDIA]

No need to sweat, use a controller!

You'd be left with a sore thumb though...

 

[Slapped]

I never really found DR1 realistic at all, it was challenging and somewhat fun though. In DR2 I'm getting snap oversteer really often and most of the time I can't tell why. I'll try some of the RWD cars again and see if I can get a feel for it...

Try moving your brake balance forward - I had this problem in SLRE until I did that.

 

[bogani]

Why are the Australia and New Zealand stages being blamed for feeling auto-generated when they exist in the real world? Surely that would suggest they have been hand-made in the game, no?

I have never played Dirt 4 and I cannot see what's wrong with the two locations.

Totally fine if people don't care for them, but they are real life stages. The only one that is yet to be pin-pointed out are the USA stages.

 

[BrainsBush]

No need to sweat, use a controller!
You'd be left with a sore thumb though...

Imagine an H shifter car...It's a 'habit/thing' I try to replicate how the car is in real life without assists like ABS/TC/SC. Yep call me 'crazy' but we're having fun

 

[GroupB]

Everyone who still says Michigan is in the game probably pronounces it “Mitchigan”

 

[kikie]

Expensive gear doesn't make you faster. Practise does

If you can't drive properly, you can practice all you want, expensive gear or not.

 

[Bigbazz]

If you can't drive properly, you can practice all you want, expensive gear or not.

Sure, keyboard isn't any way to play the game but a G27 or similar quality wheel is enough for you to learn everything you need to learn about driving fast in games, or translate everything you know about driving fast to your video games. You don't really "need" a load cell brake, though it can help with consistency you can very easily build up muscle memory and get consistent without it.

Getting fast is really just learning the foundations of driving a car quickly and then practicing and applying them, you don't really need an expensive rig to do that, I wouldn't be faster if I upgraded from my G27, maybe more consistent perhaps. Talking about the pedals for example, the G27 pedals allow you to adjust the plates and that's more than I can do in my real car without upgrading to aftermarket parts, heel-toe with my toy G27 pedals is easier than in any real car I've owned or driven, so sure they aren't Clubsport pedals but they do the job.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I know that's what they claim, but in the end and after some fair hours of playing NZ, Australia and to an extent Mchigan too, that story becomes quite hard to believe. They really feel like been made with the editor, specially those of NZ and Australia (the long courses).

They're real stages, you know, as in, exist in real life and not auto generated in any way.

They're also way above anything that 'bore stage' could throw out.

 

[kembro]

This is some footage from the roads in NZ the stages are apparently based on. I've heard it was this stage split in half, to create each of the long stages. Yep, it gets repetitively sharp and twisty at times on NZ roads, smooth driver too. Australia (Monaro) is very similar to many roads I've driven here, around South Gippsland, even though it's based in Northern NSW. On a side note, Michigan (in D4) isn't near New England (DR2). Think Boston Vs Detroit, both have Autumn leaves. Wishing everyone some clean stages today.

 

[Rodger Davies]

3/10, not realistic,too many open hairpins...

 

[BeardedWolf]

- The RWD drive cars just feel off, I tried the Porsche, Escort, Escort, Alpine, Datsun and Alfa and all are crazily tail happy and I don't recall this been the case in Dirt, yes
- Disappointing to see they have used many of the same assets from the 1st game such as marshals and other character models- this isn't a budget game and while they ain't Polyphony Digital I'd expect a little more in the way of upgrades across the board.
- Is the livery customisation there in the game? I may have missed it?

1. Alfa? What Alfa?
2. I mean, I sort of is a "budget" rally racer. It's not as small a budget as say V-Rally 4 or the WRC series, but Codemasters also doesn't have the giant budget of PD or Turn10.
3. None that I've found


Also, I've been doing time trials through the long stages and...Valley de los puentes in Argentina has a bit of a Dead Man's Corner. It's a "2 right, don't cut over narrow bridge" about half way through the stage and there's this nasty gap between the end of the corner and bridge and if you go through that gap and aren't saved by the rocks, it's a DNF. Lost a few cars there so far. Argentina is harsh. Especially in the rain.

 

[kembro]

3/10, not realistic,too many open hairpins...

Second half looks really similar.

 

[Slapped]

This cropped up on the Codies support forum from ChristinaMc (Codies Employee) regarding the FFB implementation. The part in bold is my emphasis.

Hi all,

Thanks for all of your feedback so far. Just to let you know, we're working on a patch to address some of the most pressing issues that have been raised here. As soon as I have notes on confirmed fixes, I'll share them with you ASAP.

We're also looking into FFB as a priority, as we're aware a lot of you have raised concerns about how this feels. However, we just want to make clear that there is no easy fix for this; anything we change will affect all vehicles, surfaces and peripherals, so we have to be very thorough to ensure any changes we make will be positive across the board.

Cheers,
Christina

https://forums.codemasters.com/topi...g-post-it-here/?do=findComment&comment=405532

Kind of says to me that the uninformative FFB was exactly as intended. I'm no longer holding out hope for this, and as I find the game dull and totally un-immersive I've no choice but write off the money spent - it's not going to get played until FFB is improved, and it's beginning to look like they probably can't improve it.

 

[MarcoM]

Sorry to hear that you don't like it @Slapped . It grows on me every day.

 

[BeardedWolf]

This cropped up on the Codies support forum from ChristinaMc (Codies Employee) regarding the FFB implementation. The part in bold is my emphasis.



https://forums.codemasters.com/topi...g-post-it-here/?do=findComment&comment=405532

Kind of says to me that the uninformative FFB was exactly as intended. I'm no longer holding out hope for this, and as I find the game dull and totally un-immersive I've no choice but write off the money spent - it's not going to get played until FFB is improved, and it's beginning to look like they probably can't improve it.

*rollseyes* I don't know. I've been playing racing games for a while and I've found that if you NEEEEEEEED FFB, then...I don't know. I've never 100% needed to get a feel for the car. I mean, that's what understeer/oversteer are for. FFB just tells you how the road feels, for the most part. I know, I know, unpopular opinion: You don't need FFB. It's nice, but..maybe I'm just too casual.

 

[R9NALD9]

*rollseyes* I don't know. I've been playing racing games for a while and I've found that if you NEEEEEEEED FFB, then...I don't know. I've never 100% needed to get a feel for the car. I mean, that's what understeer/oversteer are for. FFB just tells you how the road feels, for the most part. I know, I know, unpopular opinion: You don't need FFB. It's nice, but..maybe I'm just too casual.

Same here. Maybe I don't 'get it' but to me FFB is nice but far from a necessity and a bit overrated imo.

 

[kikie]

People, I was trying to put myself down, being modest and all.

I'm the best sim racer in the world and Dirt Rally 2.0 has no secret for me when it comes to car handling. G27, DD wheel, or keyboard, I'm super fast.


It is lonely at the top.


It seems that I'm not the only one who thinks FFB is crap, not all of the FFB but most of it.






Today, I'm probably going to try Dirt Rally 2.0 for the first time with my G27. The problem in my case is that I have one daily work/gaming computer in my living room and my self made crappy cockpit is upstairs. If I want to play DR 2.0, I have to take my computer upstairs and connect everything. And vice versa when I'm done.

 

[BrainsBush]

People, I was trying to put myself down, being modest and all.

I'm the best sim racer in the world and Dirt Rally 2.0 has no secret for me when it comes to car handling. G27, DD wheel, or keyboard, I'm super fast.


It is lonely at the top.


It seems that I'm not the only one who thinks FFB is crap, not all of the FFB but most of it.






Today, I'm probably going to try Dirt Rally 2.0 for the first time with my G27. The problem in my case is that I have one daily work/gaming computer in my living room and my self made crappy cockpit is upstairs. If I want to play DR 2.0, I have to take my computer upstairs and connect everything. And vice versa when I'm done.

Which empty leaderboard stage/track did you find . Haha couldn't resist that door was very very open.

In my humble opinion I think this DR2.0 is already good and will after the upcoming patch(es) get even better.
My rumble is the Buttkicker with NLRv3 so I don't really miss the wheel vibration that much (yet) but would indeed be a nice improvement

 

[SPhilli911]

Encountered a few weird, but pretty amusing, glitches. Sometimes the rain looks like snow it's so large and, well, white. I have a screenshot of this I'll need to upload. I've seen this glitch twice, but first time was playing while the game was installing.

And two, on a clear sunny day in time trial my car was covered in water droplets yet everything else was dry. From the interior view the window was covered in raindrops but the wipers weren't going. I could see a thing.

 

[Scaff]

*rollseyes* I don't know. I've been playing racing games for a while and I've found that if you NEEEEEEEED FFB, then...I don't know. I've never 100% needed to get a feel for the car. I mean, that's what understeer/oversteer are for. FFB just tells you how the road feels, for the most part. I know, I know, unpopular opinion: You don't need FFB. It's nice, but..maybe I'm just too casual.

How can you detect understeer and oversteer without FFB?

FFB isn't just the road surface, I mean one of the values that DR2.0 has for FFB is Self Aligning Torque, which is literally the singl ebiggest way a tyre communicates understeer and oversteer to you as a driver (in sims and reality).

 

[torque99]

Delete

 

[Slapped]

*rollseyes* I don't know. I've been playing racing games for a while and I've found that if you NEEEEEEEED FFB, then...I don't know. I've never 100% needed to get a feel for the car. I mean, that's what understeer/oversteer are for. FFB just tells you how the road feels, for the most part. I know, I know, unpopular opinion: You don't need FFB. It's nice, but..maybe I'm just too casual.

Same here. Maybe I don't 'get it' but to me FFB is nice but far from a necessity and a bit overrated imo.

You guys are right, good FFB is perhaps only a nice to have. However unfortunately for me the dull and immersion lacking experience that I've found DR2 to be when using a wheel doesn't really encourage me to play it, and I'm not going to waste time on a game where I'm not feeling immersed.

I'm really glad you guy's are enjoying it, but for me, eye candy aside, it feels like a big step back in the rally genre as a whole.

I will say that it's damned good fun with a gamepad, but therein lies the rub - if a driving game which is classed as a sim feels more immersive and plays better on a gamepad than it does with a FFB wheel then there's something very wrong IMO.

 

[fernandito]

They're also way above anything that 'bore stage' could throw out.

Certainly the adjective "boring" still don't make justice to properly define those

My God the stage design in the modern WRC games as well as those in the old WRC games for the ps2 are galaxies beyond these ones of DR2. That is already telling enough I'd say.

 

[KK78]

1. Alfa? What Alfa?
2. I mean, I sort of is a "budget" rally racer. It's not as small a budget as say V-Rally 4 or the WRC series, but Codemasters also doesn't have the giant budget of PD or Turn10.
/QUOTE]

1) Sorry my mistake, I meant the Fiat Abarth
2) I know Codies are not PD but they have clearly invested heavily in some aspects of 2.0 (such as RX) but to be using regularly seen assets from the 1st game seems a bit naff to me, particularly now that they are charging for extra content.

 

[kikie]

My problem with FFB is that the forces are enhanced by the steering wheel, which is not realistic. IRL, as far as I know, the forces coming through your steering wheel are the forces coming from the wheels, suspension, tires etc. In certain racing cars, which have power steering, these forces are muted somehow. In a sim the forces coming from the sim are transferred to the steering wheel which enhances the forces significantly >>> read: the torque of the steering wheel (DD wheels are in that regard super unrealistic). IRL when you are drifting and let go of your steering wheel, the steering wheel will align itself automatically (is this what @Scaff's chart is about?) but you can easily stop the wheel from turning (forces, not the speed of the turning wheel because that could be potentially dangerous). When you are drifting in a sim, the steering wheel wants to align itself as well but the forces when doing so are super unrealistic and super enhanced by the electronics of the wheel and the torque of the wheel's motor. And that is what I hate about the FFB and say it is crap and unrealistic.
The real forces of the wheels, suspension and what not should be transferred to the steering wheel without being enhanced that the wheel. You could argue that this is already happening but you are still able to so in the FFB settings but that is one of my problems. The FFB coming through the steering wheel are enhanced in the settings (if you turn the settings to the maximum) AND by the steering wheel itself.
Not to mention the FFB coming through the wheel that is felt through the suspension, chassis etc of a real car and not the steering wheel.


A few years ago, a friend invited me to try his new AccuForce in Assetto Corsa. When I started talking about the FFB and how I feel about it we started to experiment with the FFB settings in SimCommander. He followed my instructions of what I think should be felt through the steering wheel and what not and how you should feel these forces and guess what, his lap times improved from the get go. So I guess there has to be some truth to what I'm saying.


It is not easy to explain what I mean but I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say. And it is my personal opinion and doesn't mean that it is correct.


I just read this in the Fanatec DD steering wheel thread:

There is simply no situation in normal use where the motor would be delivering full power ...

A steering wheel in a real car doesn't have a motor that delivers extra, unrealistic power.

And the forces coming through the steering wheel of every single car IRL is different and feels differently. This is not the case in sim racing. It feels more and less the same in every car you are racing.

 

[Scaff]

IRL when you are drifting and let go of your steering wheel, the steering wheel will align itself automatically (is this what @Scaff's chart is about?) but you can easily stop the wheel from turning (forces, not the speed of the turning wheel because that could be potentially dangerous).

Yep that's what the chart is about, as you turn the tyre deforms and the rubber wants to go back to its original shape (hence the name, is the torque from the tyres desire to self align).

However that's only up to a point, once you break the limit of grip (actually a little before it) the rubber actually starts to self align and the torque drops off, which is why a wheel should 'always' go light w\hen you understeer and can do so very quickly.

This is why the saying that cars (and in particular race cars) are not difficult to drive, but to get them and keep them on the limit is hard, as you are balancing on that point that the limit has occurred, the slip has started and weight reduced. Overstep it and will drop off (both in steering weight and grip) very, very quickly.

A few years ago, a friend invited me to try his new AccuForce in Assetto Corsa. When I started talking about the FFB and how I feel about it we started to experiment with the FFB settings in SimCommander. He followed my instructions of what I think should be felt through the steering wheel and what not and how you should feel these forces and guess what, his lap times improved from the get go. So I guess there has to be some truth to what I'm saying.
It is not easy to explain what I mean but I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say. And it is my personal opinion and doesn't mean that it is correct.

Yep, which is why I love my tactile rig, its not to the same degree as Accuforce, but it still makes a massive difference.

 

[MarcoM]

Is there a way to get tactile effects using the ps4?

https://thebuttkicker.com/buttkicker-gamer2/ . seems to work on consoles as well.

Next problem how do I tell my wife that I want a buttkicker?

 

[kikie]

Yep that's what the chart is about, as you turn the tyre deforms and the rubber wants to go back to its original shape (hence the name, is the torque from the tyres desire to self align).

I didn't know that.

I always thought that it was because the car is travelling in one direction and the wheels are pointed in another direction. So the wheels want to align themselves with the direction the car is driving at. So the wheels are literally pushed back into the direction the car is travelling.

 

[ProjectWHaT]