DiRT Rally 2.0 General Discussion

[Scaff]

They are indeed different worlds. Pad and controller. FFB or raw physics, regardless that indeed the first is in a way linked to the second. When you grab a controller and notice that the game truly works geniously that is also a game changer. DR2 in its current status after1.3 handling wise with a controller has become quite the reference imho, whereas I hardly see Sebastian Loeb Rally as the reference in that department.

The definition of what is good for each one of us and the colour we see things under our preferences. I think it's only that in the end. It may very well be

I'm referring to wheel use and would agree that DR2 does a better job of smoothing the user inputs in comparison to SLRE (in much the same way that GTS does), that however doesn't change the fact that in a number of areas of physics SLRE is clearly ahead of DR2, particularly on tarmac. When you then look at FFB that gap gets bigger as well.

 

[Nielsen]

We are going to have a rally game for years and years to come if they end up adding Finland, Wales and Greece eventually too.

Agreed.

 

[flatdarkmars]

in a number of areas of physics SLRE is clearly ahead of DR2, particularly on tarmac.

Care to elaborate on this? It's been a while since I played SLRE, but I don't remember the physics seeming particularly outstanding. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to know specific examples of where you feel SLRE is superior. And specifically I'm interesting in physics, not FFB. A lot of wheel users seem to conflate the two.

 

[Scaff]

Care to elaborate on this? It's been a while since I played SLRE, but I don't remember the physics seeming particularly outstanding. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to know specific examples of where you feel SLRE is superior. And specifically I'm interesting in physics, not FFB. A lot of wheel users seem to conflate the two.

No problem at all, I've actually just been driving the two back to back.

The shirt summary is on gravel SLRE better replicates the interaction between the surface in question and the suspension, particularly at speed. However as I have said in an above post, DR2 is much closer in this regard now.
Tarmac is where the real difference is, the grip levels in DR2 are still far to high, even in the wet, and the manner in which you transition from grip to slip gives away the age of the engine and its origins in a fixed centre point rotation model.

On gravel they have done a better job of replicating the yaw point moving as load changes, but on tarmac it still feels heavily tied to a mainly central location.

Interestingly it's Argentina that allows you to best feel the direction DR2 has moved in, and it's much closer to SLRE here.

(and I didn't mention FFB once).

 

[Groundfish]

THIS GAME IS DRAWING ME IN!,,,

So GOOD, IF YOU ARE A SEMI COMPETENT SIM DRIVER YOU GOTTA RUN IT GOTTA HAVE IT.

This sim is NICE. LEARN IT, KNOW IT, BELIEVE IT, LIVE IT!

Lol, stoked on a Sweden stage in group b daily OMG, when you start getting it a bit right WOW. YOU KNOW AT ALL TIMES WHAT THE CAR IS DOING! BEST RALLY SIM IVE PLAYED!

 

[Nielsen]

Should we expect the Impreza and Focus to be grouped with the Fabia and C4?

 

[Dairyworker]

Still not sure about this one....

Have loved all the dirt games, especially dirt rallly, but felt a little let down by dirt 4. I am not a huge fan of dlc but this seems to have a decent layout and price....

I also switched to a wheel at new years but do not have a handbrake or shifter, and have not tried it on the previous games, i can't stop playing gt sport. Can i get some opinions, on if this game is worth it, now that the game has been out for a bit??

 

[MagpieRacer]

Should we expect the Impreza and Focus to be grouped with the Fabia and C4?

Yes. 99% certain they will be.

 

[Groundfish]

Still not sure about this one....

Have loved all the dirt games, especially dirt rallly, but felt a little let down by dirt 4. I am not a huge fan of dlc but this seems to have a decent layout and price....

I also switched to a wheel at new years but do not have a handbrake or shifter, and have not tried it on the previous games, i can't stop playing gt sport. Can i get some opinions, on if this game is worth it, now that the game has been out for a bit??

I’d say that it’s awesome, from what I have played. You can pop it in, do a daily one stage challenge you against the world one stage one chance at glory.
The ffb is a much diff take on ffb then dr. Dr gives more effect from bumps and rocks and surface chatter. Dr2 drives smooth, but the weight transfer feel, and feel of grip and control is fantastic. For me, I like both, in a real car I feel like you get the surface feel bumps and whatnot more from your butt not the steering rack.
So it’s definitely different than dr on ffb, I personally think the level of control it gives the player is great.
It’s definitely challenging! I haven’t driven all the content, not even close so no comment from me there.
I enjoyed taking an Alpine a110 on the crazy technical junta stage. Monte Carlo is pretty technical also with snow and ice.
I like the aspect that you have to factor damage vs profit on the daily stuff. I like that you can set a global leaderboard for cross platform so you can see everyone’s time, Xbox ps pc.
I’d say if you like a challenging rally drive you gotta do it, but it has paid dlc, like Sweden I had to add to my game cost.
The one thing I would say is it seems some folks dislike the lack of surface chatter effect back through the wheel.
The wheel is more a steering rack weight transfer grip feel. It seems some folks don’t like that. If you think dr has amazing ffb with the feel of the surface and are specifically looking for that, you’ll be disappointed.
If you like smoother ffb like gt sport I think this one is a must. I’ve already noticed driving it with no aids that my gt sport driving is getting better. The ffb is similar to sport in the smoothness.

 

[Scaff]

I’d say that it’s awesome, from what I have played. You can pop it in, do a daily one stage challenge you against the world one stage one chance at glory.
The ffb is a much diff take on ffb then dr. Dr gives more effect from bumps and rocks and surface chatter. Dr2 drives smooth, but the weight transfer feel, and feel of grip and control is fantastic. For me, I like both, in a real car I feel like you get the surface feel bumps and whatnot more from your butt not the steering rack.
So it’s definitely different than dr on ffb, I personally think the level of control it gives the player is great.
It’s definitely challenging! I haven’t driven all the content, not even close so no comment from me there.
I enjoyed taking an Alpine a110 on the crazy technical junta stage. Monte Carlo is pretty technical also with snow and ice.
I like the aspect that you have to factor damage vs profit on the daily stuff. I like that you can set a global leaderboard for cross platform so you can see everyone’s time, Xbox ps pc.
I’d say if you like a challenging rally drive you gotta do it, but it has paid dlc, like Sweden I had to add to my game cost.
The one thing I would say is it seems some folks dislike the lack of surface chatter effect back through the wheel.
The wheel is more a steering rack weight transfer grip feel. It seems some folks don’t like that. If you think dr has amazing ffb with the feel of the surface and are specifically looking for that, you’ll be disappointed.
If you like smoother ffb like gt sport I think this one is a must. I’ve already noticed driving it with no aids that my gt sport driving is getting better. The ffb is similar to sport in the smoothness.

Off road you should feel it both through the chassis (your butt) and through the steering.
It's quite simple, if your tyre is pulled into a rut on a gravel surface it will pull the steering and you should feel it through the steering.

I agree that in terms of self aligning torque (grip levels) DR2 is most certainly better than DR, however the total absence of any surface detail through the steering is wrong (and that's physics and vehicle dynamics saying its wrong). It also makes having the heavy surface degradation pointless, as this effect should increase significantly as the surface degrades more and more, yet its identical in its absence regardless of the degree of degradation.

Even on tarmac you should get some surface detail via the steering, particularly on pure rally cars with Rose joint suspension, etc. Even on a road car you can feel it if you drive on the inside lane of a worn motorway on low profile tyres, as the steering gets pulled into and across the tramlines left by countless HGVs.

Dirt Rally 2 and GTS both get this utterly wrong in its a sense via FFB.

No they shouldn't have the wheel shaking like mad from it, but neither should it be utterly absent. Plenty of other titles can get it right, so they really have no excuse.

 

[MaxAttack]

What I'm learning through this topic and this forum in general is that wheel FFB seems either very subjective or basically impossible to do in a way that pleases everyone.

 

[fernandito]

What I'm learning through this topic and this forum in general is that wheel FFB seems either very subjective or basically impossible to do in a way that pleases everyone.

Having road effects through your wheel not represented at all thus not affecting the handling when using your ffb wheel has nothing to do with subjectivity. Road effects should be there too, in an attempt for realistic ffb that will also affect handling.

Project Cars 2 has this problem too when going straight line on tracks that are not laser scanned.

 

[MaxAttack]

Having road effects through your wheel not represented at all thus not affecting your ffb wheel has nothing to do with subjectivity. Road effects should be there too, in an attempt for realistic ffb that will also affect handling.

Project Cars 2 has this problem too when going straight line on tracks that are not laser scanned.

Yeah, but to quote TBL, that's just like, your opinion, man.

 

[fernandito]

Yeah, but to quote TBL, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I play this game with xbox1 controller because I don't like FFB too, mainly because of what Scaff was talkign about, so was I supporting his statement on the matter as true and not subject to opinion at all. Dr2 ffb lacks road effects let alone on the handling, and that in a rally game where you race on roads full of bumps and countless little dangers from side to side of the road makes for quite an odd design decision to say the least

 

[MaxAttack]

I play this game with xbox1 controller because I don't like FFB too, mainly because of what Scaff was talkign about, so was I supporting his statement on the matter as true and not subject to opinion at all. Dr2 ffb lacks road effects let alone on the handling, and that in a rally game where you race on roads full of bumps and countless little dangers from side to side of the road makes for quite an odd design decision to say the least

Honestly, it puts me off moving up to a wheel. I want to be thinking about what I can do with my technique and car setup to go faster, it seems like moving to a "rig" just adds factors. Is my FFB set ideally, is the travel in my brake pedal a problem, etc etc. Playing on pad is a limiting factor, but at least its a known quantity. Steering sensitivity and assists are really the only things to consider. I don't have to worry about if i have the resistance on my right trigger set correctly.

 

[Jtheripper]

Both

Not sure i can get this one. To me on ps4 with a g29, SLRE feels really weird physics wise. And it looks it also. I dont know. Maybe i need try it again for a 20th time hehe.

 

[fernandito]

Honestly, it puts me off moving up to a wheel. I want to be thinking about what I can do with my technique and car setup to go faster, it seems like moving to a "rig" just adds factors. Is my FFB set ideally, is the travel in my brake pedal a problem, etc etc. Playing on pad is a limiting factor, but at least its a known quantity. Steering sensitivity and assists are really the only things to consider. I don't have to worry about if i have the resistance on my right trigger set correctly.

Moving to a wheel won't make you faster in a codemasters game, and the use of a controller (again in a codies game) by any means makes for a limiting factor.

 

[kembro]

Great video onboard in Whangarei NZ, with Hayden Paddon this weekend. He won the first round of the series.

 

[paulpg87]

Great video onboard in Whangarei NZ, with Hayden Paddon this weekend. He won the first round of the series.

In Game NZ Is far from this.

 

[kembro]

In Game NZ Is far from this.

Different rally Nth of Auckland rather than Raglan Sth of Auckland. But growing up on NZ gravel roads I feel they have the flow but the gravel is not grey enough, it's more the colour of Australian roads. More bluestone/quartz as you can see in the video. Not really a comparison video, more just admiring his style and kiwi roads.

 

[paulpg87]

Different rally Nth of Auckland rather than Raglan Sth of Auckland. But growing up on NZ gravel roads I feel they have the flow but the gravel is not grey enough, it's more the colour of Australian roads. More bluestone/quartz as you can see in the video. Not really a comparison video, more just admiring his style and kiwi roads.

Thanks for claryifing. I am not really a fan of the NZ potrayed by Codemasters having watched the real rally from past WRC seasons. However NZ always ignites good memories as It was the first event from the original Colin 1. PS1 era... I am f..... old. Damn.

 

[fernandito]

Also, notice how the car responds just as naturally well as you would expect when counter steering/braking/throttling.

One problem with simulators is that their makers still don't want to understand that real life control of a car is often way more easy than in their virtual representations. Assetto Corsa and iRacing make for the perfect two examples to that issue.

On DR2 your car is almost as easy to control as we see in that video, almost.

And yes. Anybody explain me please why codies decided that NZ gravel needs to be yellow instead of grey..

However NZ always ignites good memories as It was the first event from the original Colin 1. PS1 era... I am f..... old. Damn.

Yeah the memories fropm Cmr1 New Zealand rally; the roads, the quarry, everything.

It was also very well represented in all Evolution Studios WRC games for the ps2, as well as the gravel being grey too of course

 

[fernandito]

It's just too bad cars got that ugly since 2007 or so onward. I would have loved watching 1998-2005 rally cars perform on these new differentials and quality dumpers 2010-2019 rally cars have been equipped with since. The more modern advanced diffs they sport have made quite the difference. Just see what this ugly things can do when cornering. They handle incredibly well truth be said.

But they are ugly

 

[cjr3559]

Ran the H1 offline championship yesterday, and maybe it’s the low surface degradation or maybe racing for an established team that could have a fully upgraded staff/car, but the the car handled more consistently and true to what I would expect. On medium difficulty I beat the AI easily.

On the other hand the online career can be really brutal. I’m in the Pro class but can’t finish better than bottom third no matter the car (tried GrB RWD, H2 FWD, H3, H2). And my cars are fully upgraded except for the gradual engine upgrades that take a few events to max. If I’m too careful I’m too slow, and the line to push myself is so razor thin the slightest error turns into a crash.

Even the community events seem all over the place in terms of car handling. Just when I think I understand the behavior of a car/class, the car becomes unruly and I have to tame it again.

Anyone else experience a difference in online vs offline?

EDIT:

I meant ‘Community Events’ not the general community.

 

[MaxAttack]

It's just too bad cars got that ugly since 2007 or so onward. I would have loved watching 1998-2005 rally cars perform on these new differentials and quality dumpers 2010-2019 rally cars have been equipped with since. The more modern advanced diffs they sport have made quite the difference. Just see what this ugly things can do when cornering. They handle incredibly well truth be said.

But they are ugly

the Yaris and its rear arches are a thing of utter beauty.

EDIT: The Hyundai isn't bad looking either, but appears to be something of a pig to drive for anyone not named Neuville

 

[fernandito]

the Yaris and its rear arches are a thing of utter beauty.

EDIT: The Hyundai isn't bad looking either, but appears to be something of a pig to drive for anyone not named Neuville

Only WPolo could be saved

 

[PJTierney]

On the other hand the online career can be really brutal.

I believe all upgrades are unlocked in Freeplay and Historics, whereas your MyTeam cars are stock.

Also, the AI times are tougher in the latter levels of MyTeam than in Freeplay. I believe Masters would be the equivalent of 110% AI in Historics, which is close to World Record pace.

 

[Losco]

Played a couple of hours trying different settings for the g29. Absolute garbage.

I already miss Dirt Rally 1

 

[Nielsen]

And yes. Anybody explain me please why codies decided that NZ gravel needs to be yellow instead of grey..

There are real gravel roads in New Zealand with brownish patches despite being mostly grey. Codemasters somehow made it the opposite in the game. I haven't seen real world footage from the stages in DR2, so I can't really say how it compares. Strange though, the very first Colin McRae game got the NZ gravel color right.

Played a couple of hours trying different settings for the g29. Absolute garbage.

I already miss Dirt Rally 1

Playing with a controller, I don't miss it at all. Grip never felt right to me in DR1, but it did have Finland, Wales and Greece...

 

[Losco]

All good with dualshock. But what a shame.