Disappointed - But Optimistic!

[FuriousDemon]

No disagreement with the fact it'll get better. The issue is this game was released with twice the bugs as PCARS1 and it is rumoured they didn't even test the PS4 version before release. I know these bugs will be patched. Hopefully ASAP.

I think you have forgotten the state pCARS 1 was on day 1 on consoles. It was almost as bad to start with and got much better after a few months. Maybe you didn’t get the game on day 1?

 

[Chad151515]

I think you have forgotten the state pCARS 1 was on day 1 on consoles. It was almost as bad to start with and got much better after a few months. Maybe you didn’t get the game on day 1?

I had PCARS1 and this game is way buggier but this game has more content.

 

[AllReD]

I feel your optimism...in 12 months time this game wil be on point.

So in the mean time should I go with AC?

I've gone so far as to build myself a PC to get back into sim racing, and reading all these posts here and other forums it really looks like this game wont be ready till a few months down the line.

I remember asking @IanBell about having a demo for PC2, to summarize his response, fewer people buy games when they actually play a demo. (I can see his point now. How customer centric are these folks you have to wonder? smh)

The feeling I had when I played PC1, was that the game whilst brilliant seem unpolished, but presented me with little annoyances, that took away from the enjoyment. One of the biggest annoyances for me was saving a setup, and now to read about this debacle with PC2 when it comes to saving a setup just makes me wonder and hesitant to pull the trigger.

As a potential buyer and close observer I also feel like a lot of the WDM members/videos we saw were really disingenuous and totally staged.

I'll keep watching for the next few "days" for the patch that was promised about two weeks ago and see how much has been improved before making a decision.

For those who rightfully feel suckered; hang in there. For those who are enjoying the game; I just might join you when the patch is released.

 

[TT92]

Better hope GTS is a flawless release then huh...

It can't possibly be as bad this......... nothing could. Besides, if it is the Beta should show us all and I will put off buying it and just back to Assetto Corsa which just worked fine right out of the box. Online is still not ideal but quite workable.

I feel your optimism...in 12 months time this game wil be on point.

Why would you say that when PCARS1 still had day one bugs in it 12 months down the track that were never fixed?

 

[Schmiggz]

I just wish people would remember there are TWO threads already on here for this topic: bugs and consequent patches. Why must people feel the need to throw down their own soap box and say the same things over and over again?

Just because they made one game on these consoles you think their second attempt will be golden. That's also unreasonable. They're not a huge company. Things will take time to get right. IanBell himself has said he doesn't believe they'll really be knocking on the door of GT until their third or fourth game. But like someone else said, why start leagues Day 1 when we know the issues with the first game. Just enjoy learning the cars and tracks right now and then when things get sorted out you'll be ready for anything.

Because we live in a free world...

 

[Jack Dulmage]

I have a few comments:

1) It isn't really SMS we should be blaming. We are really angry at the gaming market in its entirety. Pre-orders and DLC has destroyed the gaming market as we had known it and produced a capital focused development loop which spends more money on creating a game that looks good in its beta form than an actual complete gold version. The need for "everything now" has created a market where we want "new now" and in order to meet those demands developers create games that are not complete and then sell DLC to complete the game while still covering their overhead. This is mostly speculation and my own personal analysis, however i have read a few business reports on the gaming market which said similar things (im sure i can find the sources if needed).

2) I agree with OP, the game isn't ready for leagues yet, although i am sure it will be. I am disappointed with the amount of bugs that were present in the first game (well known) such as lag during lobby entry, qualifying skip with AI, and many others. However, they were obviously ignored... not entirely sure why? There would need to be much more stability to run a successful league without frequent head aches. On top of the fact that some cars are simply broken *cough* TCR front tyre temp *cough*. We at least need stable frame rate... at least... as it would ruin league qualifying...

3) This isn't to say the game is bad, its good. It has the most "bang for your buck" however there are certain points that aren't highly quality (FFB), its not bad... just not as good as promised.

4) I hate comparing a sim against a sim, i think that the more sims we get the better, you don't like one then buy another, at least your supporting the genre.. IMO. However... I played the GTSport beta... and anyone thinks that it can even be considered a "sim" must have had a few before jumping on the rig. That is, IF it hasn't improved physics and FFB wise. Looks great, sound is still crap (again IMO) although it is better. The physics feel like a mix of Forza and NFS and the FFB feels like my wheel had turned into a wet noodle... weak and loose. I get that GTSport is a good game and has a die hard following, i think that's great and the more people buying into the genre the better, however, it cannot be considered comparable "sim" wise to PCARS and AC, not even in the same league. This is all IMO, obviously, but i honestly don't know how someone drives that game and considers it a simulation of real racing, unless they have never been behind the wheel of a real car (race or otherwise).

 

[Wolfe]

Maybe the issues relating to online multiplayer are intolerable, I wouldn't know, but offline this game is so far from unplayable that the hyperbole about it being completely broken or a shameless scam really doesn't come across well. No denying there are big and inexcusable problems, but I've had little trouble working around them for now and sampling some of the virtually endless driving/racing opportunities in solo mode. That won't do for everyone, I understand, but maybe it isn't exactly a trainwreck for everyone's needs.

Speaking of optimism, I'm certainly far more optimistic about SMS getting this game fixed up than I am about the possibility of competing titles addressing their shortcomings. I waited years for anyone else to get their act together, so I can wait weeks for a patch for PCARS2.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Maybe the issues relating to online multiplayer are intolerable, I wouldn't know, but offline this game is so far from unplayable that the hyperbole about it being completely broken or a shameless scam really doesn't come across well. No denying there are big and inexcusable problems, but I've had little trouble working around them for now and sampling some of the virtually endless driving/racing opportunities in solo mode. That won't do for everyone, I understand, but maybe it isn't exactly a trainwreck for everyone's needs.

Speaking of optimism, I'm certainly far more optimistic about SMS getting this game fixed up than I am about the possibility of competing titles addressing their shortcomings. I waited years for anyone else to get their act together, so I can wait weeks for a patch for PCARS2.

Online it’s pretty good too. I had one disconnect, otherwise it’s been rock solid and racing has been fun. Yes there are stutters during qualifying but it’s fine otherwise.

 

[Chad151515]

Maybe the issues relating to online multiplayer are intolerable, I wouldn't know, but offline this game is so far from unplayable that the hyperbole about it being completely broken or a shameless scam really doesn't come across well. No denying there are big and inexcusable problems, but I've had little trouble working around them for now and sampling some of the virtually endless driving/racing opportunities in solo mode. That won't do for everyone, I understand, but maybe it isn't exactly a trainwreck for everyone's needs.

Speaking of optimism, I'm certainly far more optimistic about SMS getting this game fixed up than I am about the possibility of competing titles addressing their shortcomings. I waited years for anyone else to get their act together, so I can wait weeks for a patch for PCARS2.

I only use offline to practice. The little bugs add up and that's the reason for the frustration. I'm confident they will get fixed.

 

[torque99]

Given the huge and ever-increasing evidence, it's impossible not to agree with all of that. There are 4 main issues that I understand to be legally dubious.

1) Polyphony have the confidence in the readiness of their product to allow everyone to try a demo on the 9th. Personally I can't wait to try it. It's obvious that Bandai Namco set a release date to beat GT Sport, regardless if this release date was realistic or not and whether the product was ready or not. I blame the publishers though, not SMS. The time constraint was too restrictive for the game ever to be ready and the feeling I get from various snippets from WMD, is that this release date not open to negotiation.

2) I was roped into it by mates too (having not experienced the PCARS 1 debacle because I only bought that about 6 months ago). Given the small issues we had running manual online leagues with PCARS 1 we were all extremely excited by the online championship feature but despite all the promises, announcements and hype from the devs and reviewers, it was not present on release and as far as I can see, not a word has been mentioned since.

3) WMD also admitted they didn't test it before release on the official forum and due to the uproar that created, they deleted the thread and then banned me for starting it and stating sale of goods act.

4) Given all the bugs, many of which players noticed the very first time they came to do something (like for me, simply saving a setup and getting the FFB to work), it's clearly a pre-release beta that has been fraudulently sold as a full release. It's fine to get people to pay for an early access game if it is stated as such but this was not done - as per adherence to the sale of goods act, you can sell something with defects as long as the consumer is made aware of them before sale.

I fully believe SMS will fix all the issues, but I aso fully believe that the game will only be fully functional well after GT Sport is released...

Apologies my OCD is kicking in and I thought I would just point out the Sales of Goods Act (1979) was replaced in 2015 and no longer valid.

The new Consumer Rights Act (2015) took its place with a few changes.



"
The Consumer Rights Act 2015
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 became law on 01 October 2015, replacing three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act. It was introduced to simplify, strengthen and modernise the law, giving you clearer shopping rights."

👍

 

[Dresden]

Postponing the release would be absolute suicide. Because later on, people will state "LOOK AT THE BUGS OMG!" Yes, there are bugs but we haven't even had a non-day 1 patch yet. Solely going by the length of time, I'd say these issues will be ironed out. They aren't huge gamebreaking issues. Just small annoying ones.

My Xbox game plays the car engine noise at 5% volume, while the road/rain noise plays at 95%. I also have to turn my television volume to 60+ just to hear anything. I would say that is more than annoying. The reason people are jumping up and down wanting a patch is just so that they can even play the game. Not that anybody else seems to care- both here and at SMS.

First I had to put up with the controller issues on PC1. Now I have to put up with broken audio- my days with SMS are now over. I couldn't care less that they will approach GT by their 3rd or 4th game. What a joke.

 

[paulpg87]

We need patience. A lot of patience. A bit upset. I feel i wasted my money as i could have bought the game at 25€ in december with a lot less bugs. I paid 60€ to leave It on the shelf.

 

[Logsi]

My Xbox game plays the car engine noise at 5% volume, while the road/rain noise plays at 95%. I also have to turn my television volume to 60+ just to hear anything. I would say that is more than annoying. The reason people are jumping up and down wanting a patch is just so that they can even play the game. Not that anybody else seems to care- both here and at SMS.

First I had to put up with the controller issues on PC1. Now I have to put up with broken audio- my days with SMS are now over. I couldn't care less that they will approach GT by their 3rd or 4th game. What a joke.

This is my main gripe with the game. The audio on PC1 for me was great. Really loud and raw. The mix on 2 is wrong and downright broken.

My experience with PC2 (digital deluxe...I got conned) goes like this. Start up, start racing, get annoyed at the audio, cars understeer like crazy whilst AI stick like glue, rage quit, go to Assetto corsa and realise I’m not going mad.

I’m annoyed with this game more so as I love PC1. I knew I would play 2 for a long time so paid for the deluxe edition with the season pass. So I’m £70 out of pocket for a game I’ve barely played in the last 3 weeks.

 

[05XR8]

Seriously, I'm not blind to the concerns with the game, but I'm just not experiencing on the XBONE, what some of you are. Everyone is different to what's minor or major to the other.
Only time i'm not playing the game, is when I'm sleep, in the shower, at work, eating or watching something other than playing the game.

 

[mattikake]

Apologies my OCD is kicking in and I thought I would just point out the Sales of Goods Act (1979) was replaced in 2015 and no longer valid.

The new Consumer Rights Act (2015) took its place with a few changes.



"
The Consumer Rights Act 2015
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 became law on 01 October 2015, replacing three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act. It was introduced to simplify, strengthen and modernise the law, giving you clearer shopping rights."

👍

Yes that's it. Couldn't remember the name of the new version so used SOGA. It's the same though. The legislation for the CRA has a cut-and-paste of the SOGA regs, if just amalgamates the regs of other acts.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Whenever you're thinking of a class-action lawsuit (or whatever the equal in your region), think of these words: "No man's sky". You might have a chance (still no guarantee) if you have a title that's worse than that one, but PC2 certainly isn't, so fat chance.

For those unaware: No man's sky released without many of the features that were promised pre-launch, there was a huge uproar in all the media, complaints/suits were filed and they were dismissed. To this day, the pre-release videos of this game are still being used in advertising (though granted, Hello Games added a lot of stuff post-launch, it's actually a pretty good game after a year).

 

[mattikake]

Yes well missing advertised features should be of interest to the Advertising Standards Agency but as I understand it, No Man's Sky was actually playable. Was the objection was over screenshots not being representative of the game? There were actually no missing explicitly listed advertised features? PC2 is missing explicitly listed advertised features.

PC2 isn't playable for many for many reasons that have been listed here. People giving up are doing the rounds on many forums and on Facebook. Advertising what is effectively a pre-release beta as a full game, is questionable. The slip WMD posted on the official forum that they didn't actually test the console versions of the game before release would put it somewhere in the realms of a beta.

beta version
noun
COMPUTING

1. a version of a piece of software that is made available for testing, typically by a limited number of users outside the company that is developing it, before its general release.

"Made available for testing", could imply not yet tested in part or in full. And "before general release" could also imply testing should be completed before release. Proving beyond reasonable doubt that it is a beta version would be the hard bit. Defining the quality of that testing would also grey the areas more.

However, the more these issues get reported and investigated, the better for everyone - devs to players. You could expect improving standards with more care and less hype from publishers and more respect for the consumer with adequate time and support for the devs. The gaming industry appears to have gotten too big for it's boots and lack of development standardisation. Allowing this runaway arrogance, consumer disdain and scope for outright con jobs will do no-one any favours sooner or later.

PC2 and No Man's Sky bad? We probably haven't seen anything yet!

 

[NLxAROSA]

Yes well missing advertised features should be of interest to the Advertising Standards Agency but as I understand it, No Man's Sky was actually playable. Was the objection was over screenshots not being representative of the game? There were actually no missing explicitly listed advertised features?

Yeah, there were several features missing (e.g. multiplayer). It was a huge cluster 🤬 at release. Massive backlash from both media and general public too. So if a case against them didn't stick, good luck with this one.

Thing is: you can't claim a game is unplayable if a large part of the customer base is in fact playing it. Bugs? Sure. More so on consoles than on PC? Probably. But as long as SMS fixes them in a reasonable amount of time no authority is going to do anything with your complaint/case.

The slip WMD posted on the official forum that they didn't actually test the console versions of the game before release would put it somewhere in the realms of a beta.

Your logic is flawed. Just because WMD didn't test it, doesn't mean nobody tested it. QA for consoles was in fact done by another company. Whether that was good enough can be debated.

 

[Chad151515]

Seriously, I'm not blind to the concerns with the game, but I'm just not experiencing on the XBONE, what some of you are. Everyone is different to what's minor or major to the other.
Only time i'm not playing the game, is when I'm sleep, in the shower, at work, eating or watching something other than playing the game.

From what I see and hear the PS4 is experiencing these bugs. Drivers are now complaining the pit crews just disappear. I understand the pressure to release and get the game out but it probably did more damage than good. That being said I do enjoy running by myself trying to tune but I want to be able to race others.

 

[Harry Freq]

You would think with the PS4 version being easily the biggest seller that SMS would of made sure first and foremost the PS4 version was by far and away the most polished with the least amount of bugs with the best FFB...but like PCars1 is the poor relation to the PC version again even though those PC sales are small in comparison.

 

[davidt33]

Postponing the release would be absolute suicide. Because later on, people will state "LOOK AT THE BUGS OMG!" Yes, there are bugs but we haven't even had a non-day 1 patch yet. Solely going by the length of time, I'd say these issues will be ironed out. They aren't huge gamebreaking issues. Just small annoying ones.

Au contraire. They are game-braking Career and otherwise when for a user in one's first Career series upon reaching race 4/4 cannot proceed further in Practice round because the vehicle on track has no or little stability or traction regardless of tyre. To add insult to injury is the preponderance of editing tunes/setups/saving issues (all on PS4) which is an integral part of adjustments necessary from race to race dependant on track, weather, fuel ideals and otherwise. To say these are not game-breaking for such users is really belittling their current and valid experiences with the game.

 

[jake2013guy]

Seriously, I'm not blind to the concerns with the game, but I'm just not experiencing on the XBONE, what some of you are. Everyone is different to what's minor or major to the other.
Only time i'm not playing the game, is when I'm sleep, in the shower, at work, eating or watching something other than playing the game.

I'm not experiencing the same things on PS4 either.

 

[Chad151515]

I'm not experiencing the same things on PS4 either.

Jake not to sound rude. Your on of the few in the world not experiencing these types of bugs. For me right now it's hit or miss. Just ran a lobby without a single issue. Then ran another lobby and the lobby was destroyed by glitches and bugs. Again this game will be amazing for sure!

 

[Jack Dulmage]

Jake not to sound rude. Your on of the few in the world not experiencing these types of bugs. For me right now it's hit or miss. Just ran a lobby without a single issue. Then ran another lobby and the lobby was destroyed by glitches and bugs. Again this game will be amazing for sure!

I agree... anyone not experiencing these glitches are apart of a minority...

 

[jake2013guy]

Jake not to sound rude. Your on of the few in the world not experiencing these types of bugs. For me right now it's hit or miss. Just ran a lobby without a single issue. Then ran another lobby and the lobby was destroyed by glitches and bugs. Again this game will be amazing for sure!

If you've looked in other threads, you'll see that I've had the menu freezing bug and I'm not making a rioting song and dance about it.

 

[Jack Dulmage]

If you've looked in other threads, you'll see that I've had the menu freezing bug and I'm not making a rioting song and dance about it.

Nor is anyone else? Don't see why there must be conflict? Most of us are in agreement, that the game was released with game breaking bugs, however it will be fixed and we are optimistic. Also, the thread was started to discuss the viability (or lack thereof) of leagues with PC2 online.

 

[killerjimbag]

If you've looked in other threads, you'll see that I've had the menu freezing bug and I'm not making a rioting song and dance about it.

Who did the q and a on this game? Did anyone from SMS actually play this on PS4? Come on man! I was as hyped as anyone for this game to be better than the last one. It's clearly not a finished game or was poorly ported to PS4. No more excuses.

 

[jake2013guy]

Nor is anyone else? Don't see why there must be conflict? Most of us are in agreement, that the game was released with game breaking bugs, however it will be fixed and we are optimistic. Also, the thread was started to discuss the viability (or lack thereof) of leagues with PC2 online.

If it was to do so, why was it initially called "Disappointed" then changed to "Disappointed - But Optimistic?" If you really wanted a discussion on that topic, I'd say it would be best to state it as such. Giving it that title just gave off that it was like every single of the many threads stating bugs and clearly it generated some misunderstanding and I'm pretty fed up of those threads.

No more excuses.

Who's making excuses? I'm just saying that I can live with small issues knowing they'll get fixed.

 

[Jack Dulmage]

If it was to do so, why was it initially called "Disappointed" then changed to "Disappointed - But Optimistic?" If you really wanted a discussion on that topic, I'd say it would be best to state it as such. Giving it that title just gave off that it was like every single of the many threads stating bugs and clearly it generated some misunderstanding and I'm pretty fed up of those threads.


Who's making excuses? I'm just saying that I can live with small issues knowing they'll get fixed.

Well the title was changed? Or can no one fix their mistakes? Also, I'm sorry to hear that "you" are sick of these threads. However it's an open forum, don't like it, don't read it. Like I said, not really sure why there MUST be conflict?

 

[mattikake]

Many of the issues players are spotting at their very first attempt at using the features, particularly the simple ones like saving setups/menu slowness/career AI/Career weather/tyres not heating up etc. etc. The only way this could surely have happened is if a completely untested version was handed over to these 3rd party testers. SMS couldn't even have looked at the game. I just don't get that.

Was the PC version simply recompiled to work on PS4 and handed over without so much as one single look at it?