Disappointed - But Optimistic!

[mattikake]

I guess any racing game is going to experience difficulties when it comes to heavily loaded lobbies... especially upon release. These problems are not unique to PCars 2.

...which again points to this real world illiteracy of devs and this fantasy perfect world they're living in. If they were aware of issues across multiple systems and multiple platforms with connectivity, they would've included simple options in games to deal with it - the ability to reconnect with invites from other people or to reconnect yourself with as little disruption as possible to you or other players. Encode more ways to make connections more stable, deal with latencies and low pings better etc.

Even this pausing fps issue In pc2 when people join races mid session, which is many times worse than pc1, only suggests that the tests they did consisted of full and consistent lobbies, I expect done on the same lan in the same room.

Had they seen these problems there's no way they'd have let them pass.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

...which again points to this real world illiteracy of devs and this fantasy perfect world they're living in. If they were aware of issues across multiple systems and multiple platforms with connectivity, they would've included simple options in games to deal with it - the ability to reconnect with invites from other people or to reconnect yourself with as little disruption as possible to you or other players. Encode more ways to make connections more stable, deal with latencies and low pings better etc.

Even this pausing fps issue In pc2 when people join races mid session, which is many times worse than pc1, only suggests that the tests they did consisted of full and consistent lobbies, I expect done on the same lan in the same room.

Had they seen these problems there's no way they'd have let them pass.

Right? This is obviously the unanswered question. Why do we, as customers, tolerate it? But we do. We still pre-order and purchase games that, at this point, we know aren't going to work right. There's something to be said for game companies marketing divisions, isn't there? The only fools are the ones that shell out their dough for something they know (sometimes only subconsciously) isn't going to work until long after they buy it. I for one, have purchased my last pre-ordered game. My pre-orders: (1st) Assetto Corsa (2nd) Project Cars 2 (3rd) GranTurismo Sport . Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, as for the third... what can I say, I'm a hopeless romantic. But my heart's been broken too many times. Every one's been a disappointment, so never again. What's amazing is the high review scores. How can people be so content with imperfection? Low standards create a world full of mediocrity, instead of excellence. If we demanded more with our currency, we'd receive more.

 

[mattikake]

Lol true!

This was my first pre-order/early order and my last. Which is why I didn't get GTS yet!

I was roped into it by all my league buddies saying they had pre-ordered. So unless I wanted to return to pc1 public lobby racing, I had no choice but to get pc2. Social mass hysteria, the worst of us. It takes 50 iq points off anyone...

Btw I hold these reviewers just as responsible as the publishers. I have to conclude they must be in their pocket. The problems are so obvious. They couldn't miss the issues. So they must've lied... or done a really really **** job at "reviewing".

 

[NLxAROSA]

What's amazing is the high review scores.

If you read/watch the entire reviews instead of just browsing the scores you'll see why they came to that particular rating. The one right here on GTP is a good example: quite balanced, mentions they encountered issues, still gave it a high rating. Apparently the issues they found were not bad enough to give the game a bad overall rating. On PS4 no less.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

If you read/watch the entire reviews instead of just browsing the scores you'll see why they came to that particular rating. The one right here on GTP is a good example: quite balanced, mentions they encountered issues, still gave it a high rating. Apparently the issues they found were not bad enough to give the game a bad overall rating. On PS4 no less.

True, but how long, and how in depth do reviewers go? Are they coached? Personally, the first thing I did in the game was pull the Ferrari GTO out on track. It had zero FFB on my T300 wheel. I can say that with full confidence, because after the 2.0 patch, there's tons of FFB now. So it was obviously missing, and it got put in. Take the Indy Car with the Oval Track setting, there's no FFB now. I now know this because this is the same feeling I had with the Ferrari, and it got fixed. These cars are not "done" yet. It took about eight hours for me to really find out how incomplete this game is. And about another eight so far to figure out how to steer around the unfinished parts.


Oh, it actually took me ten minutes to figure out the game wasn't done yet. But I just figured I found the only bug by chance. Nope, I found out it was a poop show right out of the gate. There were many more bugs to be found. Imagine... You get a new game with a car you've always dreamed about driving... seen reviews about how well it drives in the new PCars 2 game... get it on PS4 the day it comes out... load it up... watch some weird washed out introduction video (that I still haven't watched in entirety, because I'm hoping for that GTSport "goosebumps" feeling)... pick the car your dying to try... and your steering wheel feels like the most light weight, squishy, no response wheel you've ever experienced. And then when you complain about it, others accuse you of not knowing what a Ferrari GTO is supposed to feel like. Give me a freaking break. I've owned a Logitech Driving Force wheel, a Logitech G27 wheel, a Thrustmaster T300 wheel,, GranTurismo 5, GranTuismo 6, Shift 2, countless Need For Speed games, The Crew, Dirt 3, Dirt Rally, Dirt 4, Assetto Corsa, PROJECT CARS 1, for crying out loud, when I say a car has no freaking FFB, I know what the heck I'm talking about. What's frustrating is when somebody reads a post, doesn't experience the same problem, and assumes you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Now that... is a RANT.

Oh, and I finally got to drive that Ferrari GTO post 2.0. And it's friggin' amazing.

 

[NLxAROSA]

True, but how long, and how in depth do reviewers go? Are they coached?

I don't know how deep the review went or whether the reviewers were coached. Let's ask @SlipZtrEm as he wrote it.

It took about eight hours for me to really find out how incomplete this game is.

Oh, it actually took me ten minutes to figure out the game wasn't done yet.

You're not making sense.

Either the game is a steaming pile of poo for everyone, in which case every reviewer would have noticed within the first hour of play (they didn't). Or it's only in certain specific cases in game/specific hardware combos. Which means it's a problem for some (e.g. you), but not for others (e.g. me, the reviewers).

 

[bnight]

Give me a freaking break. I've owned a Logitech Driving Force wheel, a Logitech G27 wheel, a Thrustmaster T300 wheel,, GranTurismo 5, GranTuismo 6, Shift 2, countless Need For Speed games, The Crew, Dirt 3, Dirt Rally, Dirt 4, Assetto Corsa, PROJECT CARS 1, for crying out loud, when I say a car has no freaking FFB, I know what the heck I'm talking about. What's frustrating is when somebody reads a post, doesn't experience the same problem, and assumes you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Now that... is a RANT.

Oh, and I finally got to drive that Ferrari GTO post 2.0. And it's friggin' amazing.

Not to be a devil's advocate here but can you point me in a direction of a better car game than Project Cars 2 on the PS4 ?

Before patch 2.0 the game really feel odd in the ffb department and not only that. But even with all the bugs this game is the most complate racing experience with cars that I have seen. Adding more cars with DLC's will make the game even better. Having in mind how terrible Project Cars was before the first few patches as well. The SMS are doing there best to support this game post lunch so far.

For example I was reading about Porsche Expereince on Silverstone and since Silverstone is away from home and 995 paunds are a lot in money in my country I desided to test the Porsche GT3 RS in the game instead on the actual track. This was really fun half hour bouncing between bumps on the track and sliding from the car. Super fun and the cool think about PC2 is that you can do all sorts of such ideas.

Online experience is fun as well but take to much time.

So my question is what game you think is better than this on the PS4 (I have Driveclub, Asseto Corsa, Project Cars 1, GTS, F1 2016, NFS, WRC 5) so far I haven't seen a better racing game. I even started watching GT4 races because of the game. It's amazing game that will get better with patches.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

I don't know how deep the review went or whether the reviewers were coached. Let's ask @SlipZtrEm as he wrote it.



You're not making sense.

Either the game is a steaming pile of poo for everyone, in which case every reviewer would have noticed within the first hour of play (they didn't). Or it's only in certain specific cases in game/specific hardware combos. Which means it's a problem for some (e.g. you), but not for others (e.g. me, the reviewers).

Your not reading carefully. It took me ten minutes to find the first flaw: Took me about eight hours to find several flaws: Games incomplete. It makes sense if you read carefully. I don't write without considering my readers.

EDIT:

I'm editing this because I now see you're not American, and therefore something may have been lost in translation. If that's the case than I apologize. In this case, I didn't consider my readers, and I'm kind of embarrassed. Seriously, I'm sorry.

I meant it took me ten minutes to see the game was incomplete. Which could mean only one thing was left out.

It took me eight hours to find out how incomplete the game is. The use of how is kind of an American way to emphasize that not just one thing was left out, but several things were left out.

Again, I apologize if my original statements were unclear.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

So my question is what game you think is better than this on the PS4 (I have Driveclub, Asseto Corsa, Project Cars 1, GTS, F1 2016, NFS, WRC 5) so far I haven't seen a better racing game. I even started watching GT4 races because of the game. It's amazing game that will get better with patches.

To answer your question, none. I think PCars 2 is the best right now. That doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about though. My point from the start was, the best we have is flawed. We, as customers, should demand more. But we don't, because we give them our money regardless.

To the Moderators: I apologize for the double post. My intent was to combine them, and I messed it up. Sorry.

 

[davidt33]

I have to add Gr8_Lakes is a very experienced racer so he's not talking from the point of a novice. He also loves Pcars2 having supported the brand from Pcars1. He's just expressing his frustration, like others, with the bugs experienced following release including some of which still continue to date that's humbugging fans from enjoying the game/experience as they should or were expecting to. Hopefully whatever frustrations would be ironed out in time as more patches are released. I think all or at least most of us believe they would be but in the meantime it is a bit tiring and you can't fault some for expressing their frustrations until such time.

 

[NLxAROSA]

If that's the case than I apologize. In this case, I didn't consider my readers, and I'm kind of embarrassed. Seriously, I'm sorry.

None required man, not offended in any way. 👍 Miscommunication was probably mutual. I do understand your frustration BTW.

He's just expressing his frustration, like others, with the bugs experienced following release including some of which still continue to date that's humbugging fans from enjoying the game/experience as they should or were expecting to.

I'm not saying his issues are not genuine, frustrating or downright game-breaking for him. But as with everything: your mileage may vary. E.g. there's plenty of people that play this game without big issues on a daily basis, on all platforms. So you can't just extrapolate personal experiences and then apply that to the general population and say reviewers were wrong, sloppy or incompetent. Same applies vice-versa of course, so you can't deny or downplay peoples issues based on positive reviews either.

But.....when people come in here and say the game looks abysmal on PS4/PS4 Pro and I can look up the YT vids of PS4/PS4 Pro footage (e.g. the Digital Foundry vid or basically any YT streamer) and it doesn't look 'abysmal' at all, I think it's not strange to think that some people are exaggerrating a bit. Especially compared to XB1 videos, where the difference is a lot more obvious. Not saying things can't be improved regarding jaggies and downscaling to maintain 60FPS (864p minimum I think on PS4 when things get hot and heavy, but those are really edge cases, as can be seen from the DF vid).

 

[mattikake]

You can't use YT as a judge of quality of graphics. The resolution and translation is too low. It blurs things and almost acts like the AA filter that the game is missing. e.g. I had a sunset race today and I noticed just how grainey the sky looked and thought about an upload to YT but remembered how this simply wouldn't come across.

 

[Harry Freq]

None required man, not offended in any way. 👍 Miscommunication was probably mutual. I do understand your frustration BTW.

I'm not saying his issues are not genuine, frustrating or downright game-breaking for him. But as with everything: your mileage may vary. E.g. there's plenty of people that play this game without big issues on a daily basis, on all platforms. So you can't just extrapolate personal experiences and then apply that to the general population and say reviewers were wrong, sloppy or incompetent. Same applies vice-versa of course, so you can't deny or downplay peoples issues based on positive reviews either.

But.....when people come in here and say the game looks abysmal on PS4/PS4 Pro and I can look up the YT vids of PS4/PS4 Pro footage (e.g. the Digital Foundry vid or basically any YT streamer) and it doesn't look 'abysmal' at all, I think it's not strange to think that some people are exaggerrating a bit. Especially compared to XB1 videos, where the difference is a lot more obvious. Not saying things can't be improved regarding jaggies and downscaling to maintain 60FPS (864p minimum I think on PS4 when things get hot and heavy, but those are really edge cases, as can be seen from the DF vid).

It looks pretty bad on PS4 Pro, Im not sure what size screen your on but on a 55" it shows up every single flaw...even taking a direct capture from the PS4 shows it up badly no matter what size of screen. I've never seen a racing game with such bad LOD pop in/changes apart from the Xbox One launch title Forza 5 but even that wasnt as bad as what we see now with PCars2. Also the lack of detail on AI cars and the amount of jaggies is a massive downgrade compared to the first game.

 

[NLxAROSA]

It looks pretty bad on PS4 Pro, Im not sure what size screen your on but on a 55" it shows up every single flaw...even taking a direct capture from the PS4 shows it up badly no matter what size of screen.

The DigitalFoundry vids are not representative of what you see on your screen? Or the ones from Scaff? Those looked pretty ok to me.

 

[Harry Freq]

The DigitalFoundry vids are not representative of what you see on your screen? Or the ones from Scaff? Those looked pretty ok to me.

No they are heavily compressed youtube videos and i only have a 23" monitor so the tiny screen doesnt show the insane amount of jaggies the game on PS4 has. Ian Bell says they are fixing the PS4 Pro version but he also said the PS4 Pro version has no jaggies so really you cannot believe a word he says as quite rightly he is here and on other forums to sell the product.

Here is a screenshot of the Digital Foundry video you were talking about

Lots of jaggies although not as prominent when you direct capture but what it really shows is the very poor LOD in the cars in front, The Porsche is just in front yet it's already popped to a very low polygon model and the lights are non existent. Then you have the cars just infront of the front 3 that just look like boxes and then smudges basically...PCars 1 was no where near this bad and that's at 4k resolution imagine what us 1080p Pro users are seeing? It's even worse!

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

I will admit, if I was told the PS4 is only powerful enough for great physics, or spectacular imaging, I'd choose physics. Especially considering what we have now. Graphics aren't a deal breaker for me, though I do think PCars 1 was a little prettier. Still, I prefer the racing experience in PCars 2 more.

 

[Harry Freq]

I will admit, if I was told the PS4 is only powerful enough for great physics, or spectacular imaging, I'd choose physics. Especially considering what we have now. Graphics aren't a deal breaker for me, though I do think PCars 1 was a little prettier. Still, ai prefer the racing experience in PCars 2 more.

PS4 Pro though has double the GPU power it should not look this bad it should be at least on par with PCars 1 on the og PS4

 

[twitcher]

My personal opinion, for a game as complex and in-depth as PCARS is supposed to be, you can't properly review it with less than 50 hours into the game - and that's just scratching the surface. A proper review should be done after 100 hours of gameplay.

No one should comment on online racing until they have 100 successful race finishes.

The most laughable part of this ongoing debat about whether the game is "broken" or "unfinished" is that the majority of people holding up the "it works fine" flags have all of 10 hours into the game.

Hotlapping in a private test session offline does not constitute putting the game through its paces.

Did any reviewers do a full length season with higher tier disciplines, doing full race distances? Did any of the reviewers organize and host an online league?

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

My personal opinion, for a game as complex and in-depth as PCARS is supposed to be, you can't properly review it with less than 50 hours into the game - and that's just scratching the surface. A proper review should be done after 100 hours of gameplay.

No one should comment on online racing until they have 100 successful race finishes.

The most laughable part of this ongoing debat about whether the game is "broken" or "unfinished" is that the majority of people holding up the "it works fine" flags have all of 10 hours into the game.

Hotlapping in a private test session offline does not constitute putting the game through its paces.

Did any reviewers do a full length season with higher tier disciplines, doing full race distances? Did any of the reviewers organize and host an online league?

I think this is a very good post, however, I think 100 hours of gameplay is a bit excessive for a proper review. I honestly think a good 20-25 really shakes it out, especially if you're purposefully trying to sink your teeth into all aspects. For a full on review, maybe your 50 hours would come into play here. But some folks will never even hit 100 hours on a certain title, even if they own it.

After reading your post, which I found particularly interesting by the way, I looked at my Driver Profile for the first time. I've started 137 online races, and have completed 104. I DO NOT quit races. I don't care if I'm in last place, and if I'm on my roof in the grass because some idiot dive bombed me. The point deduction is just not worth it. That's when I'll go get a drink, use the restroom, etc. I don't intentionally quit. So, a 25% retirement history, all do to disconnections. That's why I have an A rating in safety, but can't get out of the 1300s in driver skill. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. 👍

I didn't mean to sidetrack your original point. I agree, folks that just hotlap, and don't do online races, or AI races, or race in many different vehicles, under many different conditions, in multiple disciplines, shouldn't be praising the entire game based on their limited experience. To review a game properly, you need to spend a lot of time on every aspect. Good post indeed.

 

[FuriousDemon]

I think this is a very good post, however, I think 100 hours of gameplay is a bit excessive for a proper review. I honestly think a good 20-25 really shakes it out, especially if you're purposefully trying to sink your teeth into all aspects. For a full on review, maybe your 50 hours would come into play here. But some folks will never even hit 100 hours on a certain title, even if they own it.

After reading your post, which I found particularly interesting by the way, I looked at my Driver Profile for the first time. I've started 137 online races, and have completed 104. I DO NOT quit races. I don't care if I'm in last place, and if I'm on my roof in the grass because some idiot dive bombed me. The point deduction is just not worth it. That's when I'll go get a drink, use the restroom, etc. I don't intentionally quit. So, a 25% retirement history, all do to disconnections. That's why I have an A rating in safety, but can't get out of the 1300s in driver skill. I'm glad you pointed that out to me. 👍

I didn't mean to sidetrack your original point. I agree, folks that just hotlap, and don't do online races, or AI races, or race in many different vehicles, under many different conditions, in multiple disciplines, shouldn't be praising the entire game based on their limited experience. To review a game properly, you need to spend a lot of time on every aspect. Good post indeed.

I’ve done everything (online, career, wet, dry, snow, rally) and I think it’s a fantastic game that just needs some more fixes but even as it is now I’m getting great enjoyment out of it. I guess I’m a glass half full kind of guy at least as far as this game goes cause the competition has fundamental flaws instead of just bugs and those are much much more difficult to fix.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

I’ve done everything (online, career, wet, dry, snow, rally) and I think it’s a fantastic game that just needs some more fixes but even as it is now I’m getting great enjoyment out of it. I guess I’m a glass half full kind of guy at least as far as this game goes cause the competition has fundamental flaws instead of just bugs and those are much much more difficult to fix.

But if a bartender slid you a half full beer...

 

[FuriousDemon]

But if a bartender slid you a half full beer...

Well, if you want to compare it with food, I can give you this example. PCARS is like a fancy restaurant with amazing food but you only get a tiny portion, where as something like Forza is a typical American restaurant where you get huge portions and you won’t be hungry but you won’t be raving about the taste of the food either.

(For me pCARS portion is large enough but for some it seems like it’s too small)

 

[BrandonW77]

Forza is a typical American restaurant where you get huge portions and you won’t be hungry but you won’t be raving about the taste of the food either.

You've clearly been going to the wrong restaurants! There's all kinds of great restaurants around me that have large portions AND very tasty food (and beer). That's why I'm fat.

 

[twitcher]

To me, PCARS2 is like going to a fancy restaurant, ordering a 100 dollar meal, and then being served a half cooked, half prepared meal. Oh and the gravy is coming in a future update.

Name me one single industry aside from programming where a product this unpolished and incomplete would be considered acceptable?

If I go to McDonalds and buy a &5 Big Mac, it comes finished to the level I expect a Big Mac to be finished to. If it's not, I go back to the counter, point out the mistake, and they make me a new one.

If I go to Ford and buy a new $100k F350, it comes polished and finished. If there are any imperfections, including the tiniest of details, the dealer fixes everything without question.

If I buy a $1mil home, when I get the keys, the house is finished and polished...the fridge will not arrive in a future update, and using a blow dryer does not require a trip to the mech room to flip breakers. If there is any aspect of the home unfinished, or not working properly, it is documented, why it's not finished and when exactly it will be, with full disclosure to the customer as to why you failed to deliver what you said you would.

So from a $5 dollar Big Mac to a $1mil house, there's a bit of a professional standard as far as delivering a properly finished product.

Why people continue to apologize for the annomoly that is the video game industry, who have carved out this incredibly safe space for themselves to habit, is beyond me.

 

[FuriousDemon]

To me, PCARS2 is like going to a fancy restaurant, ordering a 100 dollar meal, and then being served a half cooked, half prepared meal. Oh and the gravy is coming in a future update.

Name me one single industry aside from programming where a product this unpolished and incomplete would be considered acceptable?

If I go to McDonalds and buy a &5 Big Mac, it comes finished to the level I expect a Big Mac to be finished to. If it's not, I go back to the counter, point out the mistake, and they make me a new one.

If I go to Ford and buy a new $100k F350, it comes polished and finished. If there are any imperfections, including the tiniest of details, the dealer fixes everything without question.

If I buy a $1mil home, when I get the keys, the house is finished and polished...the fridge will not arrive in a future update, and using a blow dryer does not require a trip to the mech room to flip breakers. If there is any aspect of the home unfinished, or not working properly, it is documented, why it's not finished and when exactly it will be, with full disclosure to the customer as to why you failed to deliver what you said you would.

So from a $5 dollar Big Mac to a $1mil house, there's a bit of a professional standard as far as delivering a properly finished product.

Why people continue to apologize for the annomoly that is the video game industry, who have carved out this incredibly safe space for themselves to habit, is beyond me.

Unfortunately, even in the real world things are not perfect. You have self-accelerating vehicles, exploding airbags, tens of recalls per vehicle, newly built houses having plumbing, electrical or other issues, contractors not doing the job right, etc.

 

[BrandonW77]

Why people continue to apologize for the annomoly that is the video game industry, who have carved out this incredibly safe space for themselves to habit, is beyond me.

It's not apologizing. Some of us have just realized that this is the way things are now and they aren't going to change so there's not point in complaining to the internet every day about it. I don't like it any more than anyone else but I stopped being bothered by it after GT6's release because I realized it's the way of the gaming world now.

 

[twitcher]

Unfortunately, even in the real world things are not perfect. You have self-accelerating vehicles, exploding airbags, tens of recalls per vehicle, newly built houses having plumbing, electrical or other issues, contractors not doing the job right, etc.

True, but when those thing s happen, the people who produced the product own up to it, and provide details of exactly how and when things will be fixed....not this "some updates are coming in a patch that will be here soon...but we can't tell you what or when."

There's also not the curious situation of people having exploding airbags, going on a forum to post about it, and being met with a wall of "well my airbags work fine, so you must be doing something wrong. Have you tried putting different gas in?"

It's not apologizing. Some of us have just realized that this is the way things are now and they aren't going to change so there's not point in complaining to the internet every day about it. I don't like it any more than anyone else but I stopped being bothered by it after GT6's release because I realized it's the way of the gaming world now.

I fully understand why you feel that way....but that's depressing, in my opinion.

 

[BrandonW77]

I fully understand why you feel that way....but that's depressing, in my opinion.

I found it far more depressing when I was bothered by it. Now that I'm not bothered by it (and actually expect it) it's really a non-issue. I just get on with the parts that work and avoid the parts that don't work. So far in this game I've only been doing hot lapping to try out the new cars and tracks and racing online with friends, and for the most part it's been fine and fun. I plan to try the career out at some point but I don't see any point in doing that now since I know there are issues affecting it. I'm not all that interested in racing offline though so if it never gets fixed I won't be bothered by it, but I understand people who were looking forward to that part are justifiably disappointed and hoping it gets fixed sooner than later.

 

[Double Ayyys]

PS4 Pro though has double the GPU power it should not look this bad it should be at least on par with PCars 1 on the og PS4

GPU is being bottlenecked by the CPU

Standard PS4 is 1.6ghz
PS4 Pro is 2.1ghz <--- costing GPU power

 

[PzR Slim]

To me, PCARS2 is like going to a fancy restaurant, ordering a 100 dollar meal, and then being served a half cooked, half prepared meal. Oh and the gravy is coming in a future update.

Name me one single industry aside from programming where a product this unpolished and incomplete would be considered acceptable?

If I go to McDonalds and buy a &5 Big Mac, it comes finished to the level I expect a Big Mac to be finished to. If it's not, I go back to the counter, point out the mistake, and they make me a new one.

If I go to Ford and buy a new $100k F350, it comes polished and finished. If there are any imperfections, including the tiniest of details, the dealer fixes everything without question.

If I buy a $1mil home, when I get the keys, the house is finished and polished...the fridge will not arrive in a future update, and using a blow dryer does not require a trip to the mech room to flip breakers. If there is any aspect of the home unfinished, or not working properly, it is documented, why it's not finished and when exactly it will be, with full disclosure to the customer as to why you failed to deliver what you said you would.

So from a $5 dollar Big Mac to a $1mil house, there's a bit of a professional standard as far as delivering a properly finished product.

Why people continue to apologize for the annomoly that is the video game industry, who have carved out this incredibly safe space for themselves to habit, is beyond me.

The movie industry, the music industry, the art industry, the performing arts industry. All of those industries, just like the video game industry are entirely subjective. One person can be happy with what they see, hear, feel and yet another can be completely unhappy with it. What bothers you about this game or that game won't bother another person one jot.