Disappointed in GT4?

[zPhoenix]

Rally part of this game suck balls. I'm so dissapointed, I'm currently playing WRC and it feels so much better 👍

It is not the Rally (it was great in GT3), it is the one-sided penalty that applies to the player but not to the idiot AI that keeps crashing with you during close races.

The GT3 rallies and endurance races were my favorites, but because of the changes I now avoid them in GT4. (When I can, of course, you obviously have to beat each one at least once). 👎

 

[FastEddie12]

Yes, the engine noises are disappointing, that's probably my main complaint with the game. However! I can solve your RUF problem, as I had the exact same problem. Go into options, and change the sound from "stereo" to "mono", and viola! You can hear every car's exhaust better, and the gearbox isn't as overpowering. It was insane driving around the Nurburgring in the Yellowbird and not hearing my engine at all. Much better now

Oh man, top tip, thanks!!!

Just taken a TVR T350C round the 'Ring on mono and it makes a massive difference!!

So happy I crashed at Hocheichen. No tips for p*** poor car control and crup driving, I suppose?
Ta

 

[Ske]

Gripes:
- 'Original' tracks still too wide
- I want my [R] kits back
- Not enough tire smoke
- AI, obviously... if only they TRIED to avoid crashing into you from behind
- Not enough restricted races, and not enough restrictions on the few that exist
- Need more 'semi-hard' content, tarmac races are way too easy compared to missions, probably because of the above
- Tire physics (Sideways vs forward grip)
- Still no paint shop

But all in all the best alternative out there. I'd rate them GT2 > GT3 > GT4 for initial awe factor (never really played #1). Hope they do something radical to make GT5 fresh.

 

[zPhoenix]

So happy I crashed at Hocheichen. No tips for p*** poor car control and crup driving, I suppose?
Ta

I have not tried it myself, but I read (where else but in this forum!) that if you soften your shocks the control gets better in bumpy roads likes the 'ring.

 

[Wolfe]

Jesus Christ GT4 was disappointing. They managed to make the physics worse than GT3. My friend and I now refer to GT4 as "the pretty game." 'Cause that's all it's good for; all we ever do anymore is tell B-Spec guy to do such-and-such course with such-and-such car, and watch the marvelous-looking replay, without actually having to drive to see it.

Now I play Enthusia whenever I want to drive a car on the PS2, and I haven't found any way to express my sentiments regarding GT4/Enthusia better than Hun200kmh did....

I haven't even tried [playing GT4 again].

I could make my rant here about GT4, but it would be very long. Maybe I was expecting too much from it, after 4 years of playing GT3, GTConcept and GT4P.

I'll just say that if you don't like/don't use B-Spec, that game is soon over. And when you think of replayability, it won't be the "A-Spec maximizing thingy" that will get me into GT4 again.

Enthusia has definitely the "outsider" advantage. I never even knew this game existed until a few weeks of its release. So, it was a pleasant surprise.

And I have no doubt that if we had been "anticipating" the features of Enthusia, and cerating a hype about it like it happened with GT4, the game would seem pure crap. Like this:

a) no pits;
b) no tyre wearing;
c) no fuel spending;
d) no endurance races (I know that in free race we can have 200 laps races, but that means nothing if you don't have to care about pit strategy);
d) no day/night cycles;
e) no random weather (it would be pointless considering you can't change tyres);
g) no championships;
h) no tuning (well, there's some, but far too limited)
i) few (just two) real tracks;
j) lots of very small tracks, and some of them with arcade-like sections (rally tracks that go through caves (!) are a good example, but I also don't like the jumps in the Pacific Gateway track - just like Seattle's GT3 and GT4 jumps - or the wooden bits of Marco Strada and Burgenschlut);
k) just 200 cars (but I must say that they're a nice selection);
l) No Ferraris, no Porsches, no Lamborghinis;
m) no online;
n) no LAN or i.link;
o) no widescreen (16:9) TV support;
p) almost impossible to drive - at least to drive well - with the DS2;
q) 6 car grids;

So ... anyone that has not tried Enthusia yet comes to this point in my post and thinks: "What a crappy game, I don't know how these guys play it or even why is there a GTP forum dedicated to it".

But I say it again: I have never even tried to play GT4 again since I bought Enthusia. And that became even more clear when I got this game to 100%.

Because the physics engine is far superior - and more fun - than the GT4 one. Because the 211 cars available are - each and every one of them - unique to drive. Because the AI is better than the GT4 one (not perfect, but better). Because you can set your own grids. Beacause some tracks are very well designed (my hat goes off to the guys that designed Burgenschlut - inspite the wooden bit - and Loeweseenring). Because of Dragon Range. Because the odds system (in EL) is more rewarding and less buggy than the stupid A-Spec points. And, although I'm not a "pro drifter" myself, because drifting becomes naturally a habit - with the inherent fun you get from it - while playing this game.

In short, and I already said this in another thread: when I get home and I just want to do a few races, there's no question in my mind about what game to pick from the shelf. It's Enthusia.

 

[niky]

Jesus Christ GT4 was disappointing. They managed to make the physics worse than GT3. My friend and I now refer to GT4 as "the pretty game." 'Cause that's all it's good for; all we ever do anymore is tell B-Spec guy to do such-and-such course with such-and-such car, and watch the marvelous-looking replay, without actually having to drive to see it.

Now I play Enthusia whenever I want to drive a car on the PS2, and I haven't found any way to express my sentiments regarding GT4/Enthusia better than Hun200kmh did....

Once again I ask, why you still here if you hate it so much?

 

[ving]

Once again I ask, why you still here if you hate it so much?

yeah coming here when you hate the game and dont even play it seems a bit dopey doesnt it

 

[Ezz777]

its funny all of these people criticising the physics. especially from a realism standpoint. "last time i was driving my slr round the 'ring it was a handful over 200kmh, but with practice i got better and stopped running into things. IN GT4 however (hehe!) its just totally unrealistic..."

most of the differences since gt3 i have noted seem to relate to twitchy-floatyness at high speed, which makes cars inherently harder to control - making them harder to drive. A possible conclusion that could be drawn is that people who aren't liking the physics aren't getting on top of them and prefer more simplistic models.

what is trully enjoyable for me, is going from someone who was relying on ASM etc to stay on track in some of the nippier numbers, to someone who has ditched the aids and revels in mastering thru tuning and practice the harder cars at their limits.

Oh yeah, but there are still no stage 7 turbos!!!

 

[Lenjia]

I have seen a few things that I dont like about the game, but they were just little things that arent even worth talking about because they didnt effect the way that I played the game. I love the game, cant get enough of playing it, just ask my wife!

There is never going to be the perfect game, when GT V comes out there will be people picking it apart also, so its like damed if you do or damed if you dont.

 

[StevenDunn99]

There is a lot wrong with GT4, and there is a lot right with GT4 but the main thing I ask myself is this; does GT4 look like GT3 + nearly 4 years ? No way.

My son was playing GT3 the other day and I was amazed at some of the detail that I think is missing in GT4. Now you could blame the capability of PS2 and that there must be a balance btw what features are done best, but a few things done outstandingly well is better than lots of things done average. (eg why have enduros ? they really suck in GT4 - leave them out until you can do them properly).

IMO, either Polyphony pulls its socks up for the PS3 or it will be overtaken. It is not only us who play GT4, it is also their competitors.


Steven

 

[Arwin]

Even a PC of 2 years old can conjure up GT4 photo-mode graphics in realtime

Yeah? So give me one screenshot of a PC game that looks as good as GT4's photo-mode (and may I remind you GT4 has progressive scan support ... not that I can afford it, but still).

Of course the PS2's hardware is limited, but current PC's lack the software to make use of the hardware is worse - you pay tons more money but you can still hardly get a decent racing game. The best games out there are Mods ffs, and GTR is good but only has a selection of cars of a specialised category, which imho, doesn't quite count.

Maybe if someone like John Carmack started writing racing games ...

As far as the physics of this game go, they are phenomenal. Certainly there are still areas that can be improved, but not on the current PS2 hardware.

Of course there are also weak points in GT4.

Things I really care about:

- I would like to SEE THE WHEELS BLOCK if I drive something which doesn't have ABS and which can go fast enough to block its wheels.
- I want a REAL REVERSE GEAR. No 'push triangle ****'
- I want grid setup management / tournament options and being able to select from ANY CAR in LAN mode, not having to select the cars through the favorites first

Things I care about slightly less but would really like:

- I want ONLINE PLAY, ONLINE SCOREBOARDS
- for online play, damage would be nice, or a system like Enthusias (the best part of that game), and GRID MANAGEMENT please

 

[GranTuri55]

In my eyes. Gt4 is close to being the Perfect racing game there is only 2 small things that get to me.

1. 5 Second penaltys during Rallys. Sometimes the Opposition cars hit you and its you that get the penatly.

2. Mission waits. The Nurbergring 1 lap battle wait is endless something like 117 seconds

 

[zPhoenix]

Once again I ask, why you still here if you hate it so much?

Did you ever consider that people that dislike things in GT4 (in part or totally) that come to this thread are the ones that loved the previous GTs and REALLY, REALLY KNOW, from past experience, that the GT developers are capable of doing much better than the half-hearted improvements of GT4?

And because of it they have not yet given up on GT even though they might have given up on GT4 like Wolfe? So they come to threads like this in searh of hope for a better GT5.

I am also disappointed at GT4, royally. But I still play it and enjoy parts of it. I will probably reach 100% then forget about it. If GT5 comes out without all the stupid design choices of GT4 fixed, then I'll buy it. If not, I'll look at the competition.

 

[niky]

There is a lot wrong with GT4, and there is a lot right with GT4 but the main thing I ask myself is this; does GT4 look like GT3 + nearly 4 years ? No way.

My son was playing GT3 the other day and I was amazed at some of the detail that I think is missing in GT4. Now you could blame the capability of PS2 and that there must be a balance btw what features are done best, but a few things done outstandingly well is better than lots of things done average. (eg why have enduros ? they really suck in GT4 - leave them out until you can do them properly).

IMO, either Polyphony pulls its socks up for the PS3 or it will be overtaken. It is not only us who play GT4, it is also their competitors.


Steven

I think the critical problem is that it's still on the PS2. If it were on the PS3, I'd be more critical(x2) of it.

At zPhoenix... point taken... but Wolfe keeps ragging on about how GT4 sucks and in what way... I can take that... but then he says it's absolutely not worth playing except for ogling cars... that's a bit insulting to us guys who like it.

Yes, it's not the best, it's got niggling gameplay and physics problems (I'm starting to become a physics geek because of that) but it's not total crap like some guys suggest.

Constructive criticism is ok... saying you don't like it and don't play it over and over, a bit much... okay once in a while, but not like that.

 

[FoolKiller]

And because of it they have not yet given up on GT even though they might have given up on GT4 like Wolfe? So they come to threads like this in searh of hope for a better GT5.

So why are they in the GT4 forum instead of the GT5 forum? If they no longer play GT4 and they are here hoping to hear good news about GT5 then why bother coming into the GT4 forum, unless they just want to whine?

As for people making the Enthusia and Forza comparison I have played both and given them both a week's worth of play before sending them back to Gamefly. I though Forza was close and the best thing on Xbox but I still prefer GT4. As for Enthusia, I felt like it was an arcade racer with hopes of being a sim.

I feel GT4 has the most realistic physics and professional racers have testified to that. I give very little credit to people who have not raced at high speeds in more than a straight line with racing tires. If you don't like the physics I recommend taking a car in GT4 that you have driven, keep it stock, use N2 tires, and only drive no faster than 65-70mph. Based on the complaints I hear in this and other threads about physics I must be the only non rich person here because I don't know how an SLR handles on any track with racing tires. I do know that the Prius, Civic, Mazda6, and F150 in N2 tires handle pretty realisticly on tracks with real streets where there is asphalt and not tarmac. They aren't perfect but I have yet to find anything better and I don't have room to complain since I have no clue how complex those algorithms must be.

For those who disagree, rent GT5 first so you don't feel so cheated.

 

[kyle]

Here are some things that I am disappointed in with GT4.
1. Autosave- You mean we can't even go for a test drive without getting ripped off?!?!?
2. No in race saving- If you love to save the game so much GT4, then why didn't you put it into the 24 hour races where we need them most?
3. The jitters- This kind of annoying stuff is pretty annoying.
4. The penalties- You know what I'm talking about here. They hit you and you get the penalty.

 

[FooAtari]

There is never going to be the perfect game, when GT V comes out there will be people picking it apart also, so its like damed if you do or damed if you dont.

So does that mean they should push the game further and we shouldnt want more? Especially when the game is running on more powerful hardware? True no game is perfect, but in the next generation, online play, damage and decent A.I. should come as standard, anything else is just lazy, or resting on your laurals(sp?). Either way someone else will come along and make a better a game.

 

[FooAtari]

Yeah? So give me one screenshot of a PC game that looks as good as GT4's photo-mode (and may I remind you GT4 has progressive scan support ... not that I can afford it, but still).

Of course the PS2's hardware is limited, but current PC's lack the software to make use of the hardware is worse - you pay tons more money but you can still hardly get a decent racing game. The best games out there are Mods ffs, and GTR is good but only has a selection of cars of a specialised category, which imho, doesn't quite count.

When comparing racing Sims any game counts (as long as it is a Sim), as thats why I play them, for simulation gameplay. Grand Prix 2 and Grand Prix Legends which were released in 1995 and 1997 both have as good if not better physics than GT4. They are many Sims on the PC which are hands down better than GT4, but where I will agree with you is the cost to play them, which is quite heavy. This part isnt a pro PC, bash GT rant. Your comments just came across as a bit fanboyish and trying to convince yourself GT4 is the best around.

As far as the physics of this game go, they are phenomenal. Certainly there are still areas that can be improved, but not on the current PS2 hardware.

Do you think the physics are vastly improved over GT2? Slighty better maybe, but not a huge difference IMO. Now if they can pull off the physics on the PS1 they should be able to do a lot more with the PS2. Maybe focus less on the eye candy and more on the gameplay...

I feel GT4 has the most realistic physics and professional racers have testified to that.

The same can be said for Forza...

 

[FoolKiller]

So does that mean they should push the game further and we shouldnt want more? Especially when the game is running on more powerful hardware? True no game is perfect, but in the next generation, online play, damage and decent A.I. should come as standard, anything else is just lazy, or resting on your laurals(sp?). Either way someone else will come along and make a better a game.

These need to change because even the game designers admit that these are issues that need work. I just hope that if they add damage and online they have a penalty system because I will be ticked if I lose to some punk who thinks nudging me into the wall is a legitimate way to win. The ability to turn it off for two player/online would be cool too.

Could they improve the AI by having them all be B-Spec Bobs who's stats are selected based on your total miles driven in A spec? Each driver would have slightly different skill levels so that some are harder to get past while others drive better lines and are hard to catch or others can handle the car well so even if they get off their line or get bumped they can easily recover and continue on. That way they would each have their own personality and some would even seem to be vindictive as they try to retake the lead by cutting off your line or bumping you from behind.

I don't know. I'm not a programmer, but it seemed like an idea to me.

Do you think the physics are vastly improved over GT2? Slighty better maybe, but not a huge difference IMO. Now if they can pull off the physics on the PS1 they should be able to do a lot more with the PS2. Maybe focus less on the eye candy and more on the gameplay...

While it is not an excuse, eye candy does sell the game better because you can show that off in advance while a physics engine can't be proven until played. This may be a case of business.

The same can be said for Forza...

Which is why my statement was led with "I feel." Forza was ruined for me when I realized that in a replay my R8 on Road Atlanta was hovering about a half inch off the road. If I were more of an Xbox fanboy and had it for more than Halo and Mech Assault I woudl have probably bought it, but when I rented it all I could think of was putting it down and playing GT4. As I said, Forza is close and the best there is on Xbox. I even played it at the Xbox tent at the state fair a week ago.

Since GT4 is mostly about cars for me and racing is just the bonus that comes with it I think Forza could have sucked me in more if I had a bigger selection of cars.

 

[christofire]

Is the penalty system all that bad? If the front of your car hits another car then isn't it possible you're not going for a clean pass / not considering the racing line / not leaving enough space for your opponent?

To me it seems like we're racing against opponents with no "racing spirit" - i.e. if someone gets up the inside you give them room instead of turning into them. To program the drivers to take a different line if there's an opponent would mean either having multiple lines through the corner or having each driver work out his own line for each corner. Couple that with other factors - they should try to defend their line and position, and where do we end up? I think we'd be here with the same people complaining about the AI blocking them, only we would know they were doing it "on purpose".

It's supposed to be car racing, not dodgems. Follow the car, find the place to pass.

 

[FastEddie12]

To me it seems like we're racing against opponents with no "racing spirit" ....... I think we'd be here with the same people complaining about the AI blocking them, only we would know they were doing it "on purpose".

It's supposed to be car racing, not dodgems. Follow the car, find the place to pass.

Some really good points there , Chris, looks like we're caught between a rock and a hard place.

I gotta say, that while there have been some disappointments in the game (some of which have been sorted in this very thread), I'm glad to be able to take an E-type, a 300 SL or an Alfa GTA for a blast round the Nurburgring any day of the week without it costing me the grand or so I paid when I took my GSX-R down there this year. I've got 2 cars and the bike out front, but if it's miserable I've got 150 or more in my living room. I didn't even know I wanted to drive a Mitsubishi Minica Dangan ZZ until it was sitting there saying "Buy me. Just for the name"....

OK maybe there are too many 63 bhp boxes in there, but there are Japanese guys going " I used to have 1 of those - they're great!!" somewhere on the other side of the world.

I've got an Aston Martin, me. and 5 TVRs, and a Silk Cut Jaguar, and a .....

 

[zPhoenix]

Is the penalty system all that bad?

It is of course going to be a matter of opinion, but I say... Yes it is that badly done. A penalty system can be an awesome thing, but badly done is worse than none at all. GT4's penalty system is very badly done - in its current form.

Even a very simple change like applying it to BOTH the driver and the AI players equally would have prevented this nightmare. Yes, some people might have abused it, but now it is us that get abused by the AI.

The best races are races with an underpowered machine... but with this penalty system because you will be hit before you even see the enemy and be penalized on top of that!!! So, people tend to way overpower their machines to stay ahead of the competition, thus making the whole race pointless.

May the designer of this flawed penalty system find his armpits infested by a thousand fleas. It's the least he deserves for ruining the wonderful rallies!!!

There! It's off my chest. I can go back to being human.

 

[Blitzen]

GT4 is the best racing game on sale and the best ever gran turismo its like GT2 with better graphics.

 

[FoolKiller]

The best races are races with an underpowered machine... but with this penalty system because you will be hit before you even see the enemy and be penalized on top of that!!!

Don't they have to hit the front of the car? I have been rearended and hit in the side plenty of times without penalty. I have even been rubbing through a curve as long as he doesn't touch the front of my car. I have managed quite a few slow races in the special conditions events. I have done an 80 point race without a problem, just don't touch with your nose.

I use Amalfi Easy to tune and test all my cars on just so I can earn the money back. Well, all but the "special" cars.

 

[T5-R]

I'm dissapointed with GT4, but I fail to see how people can think of GT3 as being more realistic? True GT4s physcis aren't perfect, but there much better than GT3s.

I also can't understand the people that think GT3 was better, sorry but in my opinion GT3 was crap. The worst GT out of the lot, including GT : C (Atleast that had improved handling and graphics plus a decent car selection (PAL)). Let alone how boring and dull the racing and super wide tracks were.

 

[zPhoenix]

Don't they have to hit the front of the car?

In a tight road like Citta' D'Aria or Grand Canyon, if you get hit in back or side you are often knocked into wall, and get penalized because the wall impact is with front/side of car.

More rare, but not uncommon, if you are frequently passing / getting passed, the car passing you can cut you off because of an upcoming turn and cause a collision with your front end, again... you get penalized before you can see him and react.

To see what I mean, try those 2 tracks on hard, with a mildly underpowered car.

 

[FGTChampion 143]

Even I was thrilled by GT4, it was just what I expected it to be after those 3 years of development. I do agree with the fact that there are no stinkin Ferraris in the game. Is there any way they can use the real Formula 1 Race cars (I mean the real cars NOT the formula gran turismo) in the game. Yes the paint jobs are similar to the real thing but the sound is still like the F/094s in GT3 with a higher pitch. and those 1800s cars are there to remember automobile history if you do remember. Unlike GT3 if you win an event in the single race category you can clear the records and win it again and get the same car. In gt3 once you sell the prize car you cant get it back if it is from an event in the Single Race Category. In GT4 you can get the car back by clearing records and winning it again. That is something i didn't notice 👍 👍 👍 .

 

[Scaff]

Do you think the physics are vastly improved over GT2? Slighty better maybe, but not a huge difference IMO. Now if they can pull off the physics on the PS1 they should be able to do a lot more with the PS2. Maybe focus less on the eye candy and more on the gameplay...

Had to reply to this one, as I have just been away with work for five days and took my old PSone and GT & GT2 with me.

It had been a while since I had played either and am looking at putting together a comparison piece on the series so far (in terms of physics).

I have to say that yes GT4 is a major step forward in the area of physics from GT2. I'm not going to go into major detail now (as I said I intend to put something together on this) but GT2 is far more simplistic and 'user-friendly' that GT4.

Don't get me wrong, GT2 was very good for the platform it was on, but to say that GT4 has only moved things on slightly does not hold up to my recent experience.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Delphic Reason]

GT4 is the best racing game on sale and the best ever gran turismo its like GT2 with better graphics.

It's close, but GT4 is missing the car history (which I loved in GT2). The history was an integral part of helping me choose which version of a car to purchase (i.e NSX type S Vs. NSX Type S Zero). Also, the racing modifications were a nice touch, and I certainly wish we had the oportunity to install them in GT4.

Other than that, I think the latidudinal/longitudinal grip curves seem to be a bit off. Everyone I'm sure remembers the "Can't do donuts?" debate. Also, and this is probably related to the aforementioned, I am not sure the understeer/oversteer physics are quite up to snuff...

I would love to be able to skip laps and rewind in the replays. This would save a lot of time for those of us that make videos.

Still, all in all, I love the game... After figuring out how to get around some of GT4's physics flaws, it is quite enjoyable...

 

[kyle]

More rare, but not uncommon, if you are frequently passing / getting passed, the car passing you can cut you off because of an upcoming turn and cause a collision with your front end, again... you get penalized before you can see him and react.

Hey, that happened to me as a bad example. I was in a my Impreza and he was in a Lancia on Swiss Alps reverse, and right after the start, he nudged me out of the way and I got the penalty. He got in the way and it took me most of the lap to take the lead. What's worse is right after I finished the race the game stalled on me! I haven't gone back to it since.