Do you believe in God?

[CodeRedR51]

I cracked up laughing when I saw this photo. Man I love that movie.

 

[nitrorocks]

What movie is it?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Dumb and Dumber

 

[Schwartz]

What movie is it?

It looks like Jim Carrey. Is it dumb and dumber?

Edit: Tree'd

 

[nitrorocks]

Oh I never liked that movie....

 

[superbike81]

How could you not like Dumb & Dumber? I think God would be pissed if he found out about that!

 

[nitrorocks]

no......I just thought it was a stupid movie

 

[Schwartz]

I never thought I'd enter this thread and not see highly technical debates fought out with walls of complicated text incomprehensible to me.

 

[Jubby]

I never thought I'd enter this thread and not see highly technical debates fought out with walls of complicated text incomprehensible to me.

Well, the heart of the debate of a God is very simple.

 

[granturismohero]

I believe that it's possible for a God to exist, but I don't waste my time with it.

 

[CodeRedR51]

no......I just thought it was a stupid movie

Then you obviously don't have a sense of humor.

 

[TankAss95]

I apologise for my absence in this thread - I'm pretty busy right now.

Lots of people responded to my comments before. I'm not going to go over them in detail because it's pretty time consuming.

Could you guys just bring forward some questions instead? I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I'll try to answer them clearly to the best of my ability.

Thanks and sorry.

 

[nitrorocks]

Then you obviously don't have a sense of humor.

Yeah guess I don't.

 

[mamrhein]

God I find to be to much of a general term. I beileve in a higher power, because that is how society is set up. Their is always someone higher than you

 

[fitftw]

God I find to be to much of a general term. I beileve in a higher power, because that is how society is set up. Their is always someone higher than you

True. We tend to believe we're the top dogs just because we're more advanced than any other living creature on Earth, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing more about the origin of the universe than an ordinary housefly. We're no better than that fly, either, as much as we like to think we are. America, and the world for that matter, needs to inject itself with a huge dose of reality, like insulin. Every day I see all these idiots yapping on cell phones while driving, pretending to be some important bigshot with a three-piece suit and gelled hair. Like we're not going to die eventually...I'd love to see the world just stop in its tracks and become humble. HUMBLE. That's the word. That's what nobody is anymore. This world is fake, everything is staged, nothing is real and yet everything seems to be real. Which is right? How should I act? How should I dress? I have a homeless man's beard and long shaggy hair. People look at me strange. I look at them like they're even more strange. I don't get life and the ways of 99.9% of people who think that life will last forever. In my Human Behavior class, some girl brought up that she has kids at home and she loves to go to work to get away from them. Then why have kids in the first place?! In my head I was cussing this girl out. What's funny is that other people with kids agreed, even the teacher! Are people really just dumb or what? I'm never having kids, because it seems that only idiots have kids. Especially in this economy it's really cruel to raise kids since they'll have zero hope of making it through life without struggling with the lack of jobs, and prices for everything are through the roof.

 

[Touring Mars]

God I find to be to much of a general term. I beileve in a higher power, because that is how society is set up. Their is always someone higher than you

I believe there is something watching over us. Unfortunately it's the government.

 

[Encyclopedia]

God I find to be to much of a general term. I beileve in a higher power, because that is how society is set up. Their is always someone higher than you

What makes you think the universe is set up like human society?

True. We tend to believe we're the top dogs just because we're more advanced than any other living creature on Earth, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing more about the origin of the universe than a common housefly does. We're no better than that fly, either, as much as we like to think we are. America, and the world for that matter, needs to inject itself with a huge dose of reality, like insulin. Every day I see all these idiots yapping on cell phones while driving, pretending to be some important bigshot with a three-piece suit and gelled hair. Like we're not going to die eventually...I'd love to see the world just stop in its tracks and become humble. HUMBLE. That's the word. That's what nobody is anymore. This world is fake, everything is staged, nothing is real and yet everything seems to be real. Which is right? How should I act? How should I dress? I have a homeless man's beard and long shaggy hair. People look at me strange. I look at them like they're even more strange. I don't get life and the ways of 99.9% of people who think that life will last forever. In my Human Behavior class, some girl brought up that she has kids at home and she loves to go to work to get away from them. Then why have kids in the first place?! In my head I was cussing this girl out. What's funny is that other people with kids agreed, even the teacher! Are people really just dumb or what? I'm never having kids, because it seems that only idiots have kids. Especially in this economy it's really cruel to raise kids since they'll have zero hope of making it through life without struggling with the lack of jobs, and prices for everything are through the roof.

Just becaue one does not believe that the universe has got an intelligent origin does not mean one thinks that humanity is the epitome of everything. There might very well be other species out there vastly superior to us.

As for the other bit of your post, what has that rant got to do with the subject?

 

[Starfirebird]

There is such a thing as human behavior class?

First time i've even heard of this.Maybe it's because i'm 30 and i don't get out much.

 

[TankAss95]

@fitftw:
I pretty much agree, people are so concerned by wealth, popularity, etc it makes me feel sick. That's why I don't have Facebook, I physically can't stand people who are PROUD of themselves.

As a Christian, I see pride as being one of the worst (if not the worst) sin of all. We do stuff for ourselves for attention instead of doing stuff for other people. We all are proud, and it takes a while to stop being it (which I am currently trying to do).
When you think about it, we would be nothing if we didn't have support from our family, friends, and country. We are blessed to be educated and have access to the internet. When you realise how lucky you actually are, you realise how stupid you were for being proud about yourself and instead feel humble and thankful for being able to do things which people who are less fortunate than you can't do.
One thing that I have noticed too is that only the weak people are proud to a higher level - they gain comfort by feeling more powerful than others (in wealth, possessions, popularity and such). We all try to cover up our insecurities by making ourselves feel above others, and it's really hard to try to stop doing that.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I believe there is something watching over us. Unfortunately it's the government.

:tup:

 

[Vince_Fiero]

I believe there is something watching over us. Unfortunately it's the government.

Does this mean we voted God in place after he got a lot of campaigning money in illegal ways?


I actually never saw God as a way to make clear to people that they had to be humble and are not the center of attention. Nice approach to the God subject.

 

[huskeR32]

We tend to believe we're the top dogs just because we're more advanced than any other living creature on Earth, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing more about the origin of the universe than an ordinary housefly.

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. There's a big difference between acknowledging that we don't have all the answers, and the absurd claim you just made. I'm not sure what you're trying to contribute to this discussion, but it's hard to take you seriously.

EDIT:
Didn't want to double-post, so I'm adding a response to TankAss onto this post:

@fitftw:We all try to cover up our insecurities by making ourselves feel above others, and it's really hard to try to stop doing that.

I honestly feel like religion can be a major contributor to this. A central idea to a lot of religions is the superiority of it's followers over non-believers. The constant fear of sinning and going to hell creates a deep and paranoid insecurity. These feelings are easily remedied by believing that you're part of the "right" group, the religion that has the true answers and the path to salvation.

I've found that since I turned away from religion, I've become more humbled by my small place, both within humanity on a small scale, and within the mind-boggling vast universe on a large scale. I have much less of an urge to view other cultures and belief systems as "right" or "wrong," but rather as equal and unique parts of humanity that should be celebrated.

Keep in mind I'm simply describing my own experiences, and observations of my own personal growth. I definitely don't mean to make any broad-brush judgements of all religious people and their mindset.

 

[Exorcet]

True. We tend to believe we're the top dogs just because we're more advanced than any other living creature on Earth, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing more about the origin of the universe than an ordinary housefly. We're no better than that fly, either, as much as we like to think we are. America, and the world for that matter, needs to inject itself with a huge dose of reality, like insulin. Every day I see all these idiots yapping on cell phones while driving, pretending to be some important bigshot with a three-piece suit and gelled hair. Like we're not going to die eventually...I'd love to see the world just stop in its tracks and become humble. HUMBLE. That's the word. That's what nobody is anymore. This world is fake, everything is staged, nothing is real and yet everything seems to be real. Which is right? How should I act? How should I dress? I have a homeless man's beard and long shaggy hair. People look at me strange. I look at them like they're even more strange. I don't get life and the ways of 99.9% of people who think that life will last forever. In my Human Behavior class, some girl brought up that she has kids at home and she loves to go to work to get away from them. Then why have kids in the first place?! In my head I was cussing this girl out. What's funny is that other people with kids agreed, even the teacher! Are people really just dumb or what? I'm never having kids, because it seems that only idiots have kids. Especially in this economy it's really cruel to raise kids since they'll have zero hope of making it through life without struggling with the lack of jobs, and prices for everything are through the roof.

You sure that this applies to everyone? It sounds like a generalization to me since I can pretty easily pick out people I know who don't fit into your world view. And what's wrong with cell phones (when not driving), suits, and hair gel? Nothing. Maybe they don't think they're big shots, maybe they just like hair gel.

I think the problem here is that you kind of think everyone minus you is the same, and that you are the only one who has tried thinking for him/herself. It seems to me that most people know humans aren't much in the grand scheme of things, and I'm really really sure they all know we're all going to die (but understandably it's not a popular conversation topic).

What would you have us all do? Sit around in a coffin from birth and wait for our hearts to stop? If anything, death is more incentive to get cell phones and hair gel and have a good a time.

 

[huskeR32]

You sure that this applies to everyone? It sounds like a generalization to me since I can pretty easily pick out people I know who don't fit into your world view. And what's wrong with cell phones (when not driving), suits, and hair gel? Nothing. Maybe they don't think they're big shots, maybe they just like hair gel.

I think the problem here is that you kind of think everyone minus you is the same, and that you are the only one who has tried thinking for him/herself. It seems to me that most people know humans aren't much in the grand scheme of things, and I'm really really sure they all know we're all going to die (but understandably it's not a popular conversation topic).

What would you have us all do? Sit around in a coffin from birth and wait for our hearts to stop? If anything, death is more incentive to get cell phones and hair gel and have a good a time.

QFT 👍

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Could you guys just bring forward some questions instead? I'm sorry for the inconvenience. I'll try to answer them clearly to the best of my ability.

Thanks and sorry.

What is the moral value of religion? I suppose, in your case, specifically, Christianity?

This requires two additional questions:

1) Is proper morality only borne of religion?

2) Given all the evil that has been wrought upon the world in the name of God, what objective GOOD does religion offer the world that could NOT be achieved by secular thought, means, or institutions?

True. We tend to believe we're the top dogs just because we're more advanced than any other living creature on Earth, but when it comes down to it, we know nothing more about the origin of the universe than an ordinary housefly. We're no better than that fly, either, as much as we like to think we are.
...
Especially in this economy it's really cruel to raise kids since they'll have zero hope of making it through life without struggling with the lack of jobs, and prices for everything are through the roof.

I feel like I ought to repeat my response to your earlier post expressing a similar outlook.

We are the only species we are aware of, and the only species we are likely to BECOME aware of in our lifetimes, capable of what we are.

This is no small feat. We employ logic and reason to manipulate the world around us to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves to suit our environment, which every single other species on this planet does. Keep in mind there are an UNBELIEVEABLE number of species on this planet.

Keep all this in mind, and repeat your claim of our insignificance. Given the context of what we are able to experience, we should be boiling with excitement for, and pride in, what we are able to enjoy. If you want to allow "hair gelled yuppies" to be your metric of happiness, do so.

I can't, and won't; not when I can look up at the heavens and know that an object my fellow men built can show me what I'm seeing, magnified on the order of millions, existing as it did countless eons in the past.

 

[DK]

That's why I don't have Facebook, I physically can't stand people who are PROUD of themselves.

It seems like you are confusing healthy pride with arrogance. I would consider myself of above-average intelligence, and I'm proud of that. Does that mean you can't stand me? I'd consider arrogance to be the equivalent of rubbing everyone's nose in it, while pride is being confident in yourself.

 

[Encyclopedia]

I feel like I ought to repeat my response to your earlier post expressing a similar outlook.

We are the only species we are aware of, and the only species we are likely to BECOME aware of in our lifetimes, capable of what we are.

This is no small feat. We employ logic and reason to manipulate the world around us to suit ourselves, rather than adapt ourselves to suit our environment, which every single other species on this planet does. Keep in mind there are an UNBELIEVEABLE number of species on this planet.

Keep all this in mind, and repeat your claim of our insignificance. Given the context of what we are able to experience, we should be boiling with excitement for, and pride in, what we are able to enjoy. If you want to allow "hair gelled yuppies" to be your metric of happiness, do so.

I can't, and won't; not when I can look up at the heavens and know that an object my fellow men built can show me what I'm seeing, magnified on the order of millions, existing as it did countless eons in the past.

👍

I think you should calm down a bit fitftw and try to argue more objectively. Your posts seem to be mainly rants that go off-topic.

 

[BobK]

@fitftw:
I pretty much agree, people are so concerned by wealth, popularity, etc it makes me feel sick. That's why I don't have Facebook, I physically can't stand people who are PROUD of themselves.

As a Christian, I see pride as being one of the worst (if not the worst) sin of all. We do stuff for ourselves for attention instead of doing stuff for other people. We all are proud, and it takes a while to stop being it (which I am currently trying to do).
When you think about it, we would be nothing if we didn't have support from our family, friends, and country. We are blessed to be educated and have access to the internet. When you realise how lucky you actually are, you realise how stupid you were for being proud about yourself and instead feel humble and thankful for being able to do things which people who are less fortunate than you can't do.
One thing that I have noticed too is that only the weak people are proud to a higher level - they gain comfort by feeling more powerful than others (in wealth, possessions, popularity and such).

So you're putting pride on the same level as thievery, murder and buggering little kids. Wow. Just, wow.

We all try to cover up our insecurities by making ourselves feel above others, and it's really hard to try to stop doing that.

Speak for yourself there. Don't presume that it applies to everybody.

 

[TankAss95]

What is the moral value of religion? I suppose, in your case, specifically, Christianity?

This requires two additional questions:

1) Is proper morality only borne of religion?

2) Given all the evil that has been wrought upon the world in the name of God, what objective GOOD does religion offer the world that could NOT be achieved by secular thought, means, or institutions?

First it would be best to define "Christian". A Christian is by definition a person who follows the guidelines of the Bible, but obviously lots of topics are argued over. There are many different stems of Christianity, but for the sake of discussion, I will define a "Christian" as one who accepts that there is one true God, and that he has appeared to us through his son, Jesus Christ.

Because there are many different views and beliefs stemming from Christianity, Christians have a wide range of morals. It is hard to then imagine an absolute Christian society, because of the result of lots of views on certain subjects.

At the heart of the Christian faith you will find forgiveness and to love and pray for one another. Jesus's teachings display a highly respectable sense of moral code which Christians and most Atheists agree upon - even Richard Dawkins respects the teachings of Jesus Christ presented in the Bible, although he does not accept him as being the Son of God.

1) Even after the Fall of Man, we still are made in the image of God, and we are each given consciousness to an absolute moral code given by a diving law-giver (God). The Christian doctrine states that we are all sinful, although we can be forgiven through Jesus Christ. So according to Christianity the sense of morality in which we all have is given by the Almighty.
Christianity as I have mentioned teaches that we are sinful by heart, so in that sense proper morality is not accessible in this life, as we ourselves are sinful. Saying that though, God provides us strength through prayer and through study of The Bible to achieve a higher sense of proper morality. This doesn't mean that non-Christians cannot be 'good' people, many atheists for example are people who are admirable for their actions, and many "Christians" are/have been horrible people, but the atheist has no guided sense of what is acceptable with God. Take abortion for example - the atheist will most likely see this as acceptable in most or all cases. The Christian however, will (or should) see this as immoral because human life is sacred as it is built upon the image of God, because this guideline has been provided by the divine law-giver ("You shall not murder.").

2) Lots of evil has been done in the name of God, but certainly not in the spirit of God. Christianity teaches that the faith should not be taught by force or violence, as explained when Pilot was questioning Jesus:

“Am I a Jew?” Pilate retorted. “Your own people and their leading priests brought You to me for trial. Why? What have You done?” Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, My followers would fight to keep Me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But My Kingdom is not of this world.”
-John 18:35-36 (NLT)

Without accepting an absolute moral code from a divine law-giver, morality is nothing but a matter of preference, and there is no way to decide between right and wrong. This is why a secular society can't work - without God, everything is permissible. You can't get ethics from common sense - as common sense is a matter of preference, majority votes - as the majority can oppose the minority who could be right, or from science. And if nothing but DNA decides our actions, why is it moral to punish anyone for their actions?

 

[Zenith]

Hey TankAss. Thanks for continuing to reply to this thread. I'm sure it's very time consuming and probably a bit frustrating to read what people say. Your perspective is very insightful and it's interesting to hear the other side. 👍