Do you believe in God?

[GBO Possum]

Today nobeliefs.com offered up this brief video (language warning) which has perfect relevance to this discussion.

EDIT: Apologies for lack of language warning. Oops

The title of the video is "**** Christians Say to Atheists". The spoken content uses milder language

 

[TheCracker]

Language, Timothy!

 

[Exorcet]

In a small minority of sick animals...

The sufficient number to debunk your stance was 1 (well 2 I guess). Homosexuality is observed in nature. By the natural is right argument (which is poor) homosexuality is right.

 

[Famine]

In a small minority of sick animals...

If by that you mean "In the vast majority of mammalian species regardless of individual health", then yes. Ever had a dog... ever?

Our closest living animal relative of all, bonobos, will screw anything regardless of gender, age, species or even if it's a rock. They shag their food before they eat it! Their entire society is based on sexual currency.

Pretending that it doesn't happen "in nature" is wrong. Pretending it happens in a minority of animals is wrong. Pretending it happens only in "sick animals" is wrong. And no, you are not entitled to your opinion on this.

Got any comment about the clergy who rape boys, or are you going to keep pretending that only atheists are homosexual?

 

[Touring Mars]

the 1 in 50 clergy who rape boys

In case anyone is wondering what the source for this statistic is, that figure came from the Pope himself

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28282050

In a small minority of sick animals...

Do you have a Ph.D or equivalent in Animal Psychology? Or did you just pluck this factoid out of thin air? Your understanding of the natural world notwithstanding, it's a totally irrelevant point anyway, even if it were substantiated by any evidence (which of course it clearly is not). Either homosexual behaviour exists in non-human animals or it doesn't. Science has clearly established that it does.

 

[TenEightyOne]

In case anyone is wondering what the source for this statistic is, that figure came from the Pope himself.

I heard that a priest asked the Pope when it would be legal to sleep with boys. The Pope replied "Not until they finish school!".

"Oh good", said the priest, "roll on half-three!".

B'dum sigh.

 

[Brett]

I don't see how believing in God would really add anything for me. I'm quite happy that I'll live my life being the best man that I can.

If there's a God and I meet him when I die, then a good God will recognise that I've lived a good life. I've tried to help others when I can, and generally follow the Golden Rule.
If God turns out to be enough of an asshole that he would send me to hell just for not believing in him even though I've lived a good life, I have no desire to waste that life on him.

This pretty well sums it up for me also.

We all bleed red and live on the same rock. I think we ought to realize that as humans, we are the same and should use the minds and spines we were given to benefit the lives of others, not destroy them in an attempt to make everyone think the same as you.

This part here. This is forgotten much too often.

 

[GBO Possum]

Also from nobeliefs.com

Something to Think About:

Korzybski suggested dozens of reforms in our speech and our writings, most of which I try to follow. One of them is if people said 'maybe' more often, the world would suddenly become stark, staring sane. Can you see Jerry Falwell saying: "Maybe God hates gay people. Maybe Jesus is the son of God.' Every muezzin in Islam resounding at night in booming voices: 'There is no God except maybe Allah. And maybe Mohammed is his papa. Think about how sane the world would become after awhile.

--Robert Anton Wilson

 

[MatskiMonk]

Criticise homosexuality all you like, at least it occurs in nature, unlike a belief in God/Gods.

This is an interesting topic - personally I believe that as individuals, we are, or aren't, predisposed to the concept of a higher power, pretty much from birth - a point I made about 100 pages back (probably). I think to a point our brains are wired to have "higher power" as a default solution to an utter failure in comprehension, it could be "Ugg, what is big ball of fire in sky?" or "Oh my god, my children, my childrens babies, my parents and my dog where all burned to death horribly in a house fire... what do I do?". Of course many animal brains haven't evolved to the point of that kind of awareness, much less the ability to communicate such an advanced idea to other members of their own species, and certainly not humans.

 

[DQuaN]

@DBeav12
Stop for a moment and have a think about why you are getting the responses that you are.

It's not because we are heathens or homosexuals. It's because your way of thinking is fundamentally flawed. Your preconceptions are utterly wrong and you need to change your way of thinking. We're not asking you give up Christianity, just to think about things for yourself rather than thinking the way other people tell you too.

 

[Beav]

Pretending that it doesn't happen "in nature" is wrong. Pretending it happens in a minority of animals is wrong. Pretending it happens only in "sick animals" is wrong. And no, you are not entitled to your opinion on this.

Got any comment about the clergy who rape boys, or are you going to keep pretending that only atheists are homosexual?

Until I see a Buck mounting another Buck, I'm not going to believe animals are gay. Say what you want or provide me with skewed scientific data, but it's a waste.

And about the clergy/boys - some people in this world are mentally sick regardless of religion.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Until I see a Buck mounting another Buck, I'm not going to believe animals are gay. Say what you want or provide me with skewed scientific data, but it's a waste.

I'm sure Famine didn't realise that you have much more expertise in judging whether scientific data has been "skewed" or not, and he clearly has no idea what he is talking about.

/end heavy sarcasm

 

[Exorcet]

Until I see a Buck mounting another Buck, I'm not going to believe animals are gay. Say what you want or provide me with skewed scientific data, but it's a waste.

Conveniently if that's your standard, you could look away and say you didn't say anything. Scientific evidence is proof. If you want to say it's skewed then you had better provide your own data showing so. All you're doing now is digging yourself into denial.

Until I see you smile, Christianity is keeping you from being happy.

And about the clergy/boys - some people in this world are mentally sick regardless of religion.

And many people are good and happy regardless of religion. In the end religion doesn't seem to be of much use.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Until I see a Buck mounting another Buck, I'm not going to believe animals are gay. Say what you want or provide me with skewed scientific data, but it's a waste.

So you know nothing about the countryside, you know nothing about science... is there much point in you arguing in an area that you have so little information on?

 

[Famine]

Until I see a Buck mounting another Buck, I'm not going to believe animals are gay.

And it is indeed the nature of belief to accept something that is not supported by evidence.

You'd be phenomenally wrong, but it's your prerogative to be wrong if you want to be. Incidentally, would doe-on-doe not be gay?

Why the deer obsession anyway? There's 1,700 species in which homosexuality has been observed. Did you miss the question about dogs?

Say what you want or provide me with skewed scientific data, but it's a waste.

What's "skewed" about it?

You know that the whole point of scientific data is that you can go out and do the exact same process yourself to collect your own results, right?

And about the clergy/boys - some people in this world are mentally sick regardless of religion.

Is that an "I agree, I was wrong. There is such a thing as a religious homosexual"? Only it looks quite like one, but one you're trying really hard not to say.

That's assuming you, as a Catholic, believe it when the Pope tells you that people who share your religion like to commit homosexual rape on boys. I guess unless you've seen a priest mount a boy, you're not going to believe that clergymen are gay, right?

 

[mistersafeway]

The sufficient number to debunk your stance was 1 (well 2 I guess). Homosexuality is observed in nature. By the natural is right argument (which is poor) homosexuality is right.

Which isn't actually my argument (nature's frequently too disgusting to even be close to right), I was just pre-empting the "it's not natural" argument against homosexuality.

 

[Exorcet]

My post was directed soley at DeBeav12.

 

[mistersafeway]

My post was directed soley at DeBeav12.

Okay, just felt I should point it out because I was the one who pointed out that it occurs in nature.

 

[Beav]

@Famine My point I was trying to make is that gay priests aren't right in the head. There are some people that are mentally confused/mentally ill. There may be some gay people that are religious, but there are way more that are atheist.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There may be some gay people that are religious, but there are way more that are atheist.

Citation required, I think you're making posts up to support your bulwarks.

 

[PeterJB]

Generally speaking, gay Atheists are a lot more vocal than gay Christians, with gives the illusion they outnumber them. And once again chances are that because there are far more Theists in the world than Atheists, it stands to reason that there are also far more gay Theists and than gay Atheists, irrespective of whether they're out or not, since one's sexual orientation is not a choice.

 

[Beav]

Citation required, I think you're making posts up to support your bulwarks.

Citation required?

Do you live under a rock? Open your eyes. Evidence is everywhere, whether it be IRL, or here in the forums...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Citation required?

Do you live under a rock? Open your eyes. Evidence is everywhere, whether it be IRL, or here in the forums...

Yes, because that's how it works. You don't present a fact and send us to look for it.

So citation required, won't take you long from the sounds of things.

 

[GBO Possum]

@Famine My point I was trying to make is that gay priests aren't right in the head. There are some people that are mentally confused/mentally ill. There may be some gay people that are religious, but there are way more that are atheist.

To say that "gay priests aren't right in the head" seems like a gross generalization. Is this because they are gay or because they are priests who talk to their imaginary friend?

Edit:- Then I read on further in your post and saw that gay people tend not to have imaginary friends, so wrong-headedness is associated with priests and not gays. I get it now, thanks!

 

[TheCracker]

There may be some gay people that are religious, but there are way more that are atheist.

It's hardly a surprise that a group of people openly persecuted by a certain religious organisation are reluctant to be part of that religion. It's like the owner of a fried chicken shop becoming a member of PETA.

 

[Beav]

Yes, because that's how it works. You don't present a fact and send us to look for it.

So citation required, won't take you long from the sounds of things.

 

[PeterJB]

That's a public opinion poll. You would need data that uses the testimony of homosexuals themselves rather than what the public thinks.

 

[Beav]

That's a public opinion poll. You would need data that uses the testimony of homosexuals themselves rather than what the public thinks.

"While six out of ten heterosexuals (straight) said they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, only four out of ten homosexuals expressed such commitment.

Moreover, about half of straight adults said their life has been greatly transformed by their faith while only one-third of homosexual adults agreed."

http://m.christianpost.com/news/survey-explores-christian-faith-of-homosexuals--39313/

 

[TenEightyOne]

"While six out of ten heterosexuals (straight) said they are absolutely committed to the Christian faith, only four out of ten homosexuals expressed such commitment.

Moreover, about half of straight adults said their life has been greatly transformed by their faith while only one-third of homosexual adults agreed."

http://m.christianpost.com/news/survey-explores-christian-faith-of-homosexuals--39313/

That's a tiny sample size... 280 of 9820 respondents were homosexual? Doesn't looking at the survey base give you a quease with Barna Group's sample? Do you know who Barna are?

And of those there was only a small margin between heterosexuals with Christian commitment to homosexuals with Christian commitment.

The only real eye-opener was the difference in the number of rebirth Christians.

 

[PeterJB]

Among a sample of 10,000 that may be the case, but in the broader sense that is unlikely. Most studies gives a homosexual rate among the general population of approximately 5%. If we apply this in practice, that makes roughly 350 million homosexuals out of a world population of 7 billion. There are roughly 2 billion Christians in the world, that makes approximately 100 million homosexual Christians. Roughly 2.5% of the world's population are Atheist, from roughly 15-20% who are irreligious. That makes roughly 4.4 million homosexual Atheists. Now, not all of these people may engage in a homosexual lifestyle, and not all of them may be out, but that makes no difference to their thoughts, desires and temptations.