Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 624 30.6%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,051 51.5%

  • Total voters
    2,042
Whoever changed it really should have simplified the option that kind of represents yes. "Without him nothing would exist" is a superfluous limitation to anyone believing in a she, a non-gender, a this, a that, or the other kind of god.

It bugs me when people do that with polls.

The no option isn't any better.

To me, "No way!" is too strong to accurately reflect atheism, it's more like nontheism. It just sounds too much like a positive claim of divine nonexistence.

As I call myself an atheist in the true sense, my mind will remain forever open to the idea of a god, just as soon as evidence of one is available. Until then, I strongly suspect that one does not exist.

I like that that we allowed the option of changing votes, but mine will remain "maybe" until a better representation is available.
 
Told my closed minded Christian father that I'm Agnostic......... horrible idea. We got into the subject of religion for some reason. He mentioned when he used to be the boss at a Montgomery Ward, he would talk to his atheist workers and push Christianity onto them without saying he forced it. For example, when they were on a smoke break, dad would go outside and tell the atheist workers to look the sky and trees. How did they get there, he asked. Also, holding up a phone and talk about how the phone was made by the materials on Earth that a god put it there.

A minute before this story, he said he never pushes his religion upon others............................. He went on talking about religion for 20 minutes without any contribution from me. I was thinking should I speak my Agnostic thoughts or should I not. So, I went for it, shrugged my shoulders, told him I'm going to regret saying this, and told him I'm agnostic. He attempted to not show any emotion, but he leaked some emotions of anger. I was so nervous after revealing myself that I couldn't give straight answers as to why I believe what I do.

Now I'll just wait for him to send me emails about finding God like he occasionally would beforehand. Luckily my mom already knew I was Agnostic and she was perfectly cool with it. She even thought that she could be Agnostic as well. After going through this event, there is no f-ing way am I telling my Christian conservative father that I'm bisexual.

Now I told my mom about the conversation. She's proud of me for opening up to my father, but she feels sorry that I don't believe. Excuse me lady?! Feel free to dislike an opposing opinion. But, you shouldn't feel sorry for someone for not believing what you believe.
 
Tips: When you are religious and want somebody to believe you, dont do this:

circular-reasoning1.jpg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Even as religious people as i am, this is pretty much a discussion shut. Makes me wonder why debating to these people is worthless.

Its also makes people you want to join you get away from you. So yeah, keep doing that (sarcasm).
 
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"Scaff, post: 10618200, member: 15439"]A movie that starts with a flawed and outdated premise from a man who died in 1965 (do you honestly think that all research into ancient Eygpt stopped at that point and has gone no further), then cherry picks information and makes claims without any basis in fact to force a point.

Why do you think this has not been published as a peer reviewed research paper that has re-written our knowledge of the time period in question?

Because unlike evolution, they want to be sure of something they are claiming, and they have the faith that God will reveal it to them. Also, the governments fund the illuminati, that controls everything, besides the bible...:)


It doesn't. You don't understand science (but that has been clear for a while).

Maybe so, but as dumb as you might see me, I still have achieved everything I have in life, which again proves that I don't need to understand something that doesn't benefit me. A thousand years ago, I'm sure I would still be blessed.

Why not Thor or Odin or Ganesha?

What can you show that will convince me that Christ is real and they are not (and do not say pray or open you heart - you assume I have not been down that route in my life).

What do these gods offer you? Something convenient like doing enough good deeds, to get you to a better place.
Science gods offer you nothing, just becoming a plant, micro-organism or soil. Isn't that just an easy way to think that there is no negatives to worry about ever.
Jesus proclaims everything. Tells you why this world is suffering, and getting worse. He is trying to warn you through his words of what is to come, yet you make it seem too far fetched and impossible. You call His prophecies vague, and that you need more proof. Are these other gods warning you enough because they love you and want the best for you?

You cannot say you went down the prayer route already and nothing happened. Your heart is filled with many desires.
Jesus says you cannot serve God and mammon. it's why there is no connection.
Seek He "first", the Kingdom of God and His "righteousness". Go to Him with faith, not with desires.



It has done on at least three separate occasions.

Jesus has never to my knowledge worked in the development of either passive or active vehicle safety features. They are however a product of the scientific method and have saved me from serious injury and/or death.

Thousands of people have died with seatbelts on. Were you racing, or just driving innocently. Lots of things to consider.
I've told you before, you have been given chances. I heard a powerful testimony from an ex Atheist Todd White. You'd be surprised what these people face, yet come out victorious, and are able to share it. I hope you could you tube him, and hear is story. I can find it for you if you want.


No you were not. You quite clearly said that those who the devil had tricked would take their own lives and then put me into the group that the devil had tricked.


Why are you being so misleading on this? Why do you refuse to answer questions in a straightforward manner?

Okay yes, the devil wants people to believe something that is contradictory to the word of God. You are not killing yourself here and now in the flesh, but you are destroying yourself in the spirit. You haven't grasped the concept yet. Perhaps Todd White might help you understand this.
I cannot show you love with words on a forum. If you are not reading it, thinking I don't care, then obviously you would think I'm wasting your time.




Told my closed minded Christian father that I'm Agnostic......... horrible idea. We got into the subject of religion for some reason. He mentioned when he used to be the boss at a Montgomery Ward, he would talk to his atheist workers and push Christianity onto them without saying he forced it. For example, when they were on a smoke break, dad would go outside and tell the atheist workers to look the sky and trees. How did they get there, he asked. Also, holding up a phone and talk about how the phone was made by the materials on Earth that a god put it there.

A minute before this story, he said he never pushes his religion upon others............................. He went on talking about religion for 20 minutes without any contribution from me. I was thinking should I speak my Agnostic thoughts or should I not. So, I went for it, shrugged my shoulders, told him I'm going to regret saying this, and told him I'm agnostic. He attempted to not show any emotion, but he leaked some emotions of anger. I was so nervous after revealing myself that I couldn't give straight answers as to why I believe what I do.

Now I'll just wait for him to send me emails about finding God like he occasionally would beforehand. Luckily my mom already knew I was Agnostic and she was perfectly cool with it. She even thought that she could be Agnostic as well. After going through this event, there is no f-ing way am I telling my Christian conservative father that I'm bisexual.

Now I told my mom about the conversation. She's proud of me for opening up to my father, but she feels sorry that I don't believe. Excuse me lady?! Feel free to dislike an opposing opinion. But, you shouldn't feel sorry for someone for not believing what you believe.

I'm sure your father loves you dearly, and yet he knows your destination as you keep writing off Christ.
Your dad doesn't give up, and he can spark a general conversation about God.
I don't see him doing anything wrong, and he certainly isn't forcing Christ on people. If one of those people actually were interested, they would later ask him to discuss further. That is the gospel.
That being said, your dad doesn't realise that heaven is so perfect, that which ever loved one didn't make it to heaven, they would have never existed.
I'm not saying your father will be happy for this, but he has to accept that you, his son, is not interested.
I can't blame your mom for feeling sorry either. They respect your choice, because you choose the world.
Every now and then, they will keep planting the seed. Just understand that they care.
 
DCP
Maybe so, but as dumb as you might see me, I still have achieved everything I have in life, which again proves that I don't need to understand something that doesn't benefit me. A thousand years ago, I'm sure I would still be blessed.

Unless you live in a hole in the ground, 'science' benefits you every single day. Science benefited the people of Jesus's time, and those that lived tens of thousands of years before. Striking two pieces of flint together to make a spark to produce fire - is science.
 
Some of the most fervent believers I have ever met and known personally have become so because of a traumatic experience in their life. They, or a relative or a member of their "clan", has been threatened with death.

The greatest appeal of most religions is the promise of life-after-death. The story of resurrection and eternal life is the most beautiful, useful and necessary lie ever told. Simply put, it is preferable to the ugly truth; especially for abused minorities.
 
Told my closed minded Christian father that I'm Agnostic......... horrible idea. We got into the subject of religion for some reason. He mentioned when he used to be the boss at a Montgomery Ward, he would talk to his atheist workers and push Christianity onto them without saying he forced it. For example, when they were on a smoke break, dad would go outside and tell the atheist workers to look the sky and trees. How did they get there, he asked. Also, holding up a phone and talk about how the phone was made by the materials on Earth that a god put it there.

A minute before this story, he said he never pushes his religion upon others............................. He went on talking about religion for 20 minutes without any contribution from me. I was thinking should I speak my Agnostic thoughts or should I not. So, I went for it, shrugged my shoulders, told him I'm going to regret saying this, and told him I'm agnostic. He attempted to not show any emotion, but he leaked some emotions of anger. I was so nervous after revealing myself that I couldn't give straight answers as to why I believe what I do.

Now I'll just wait for him to send me emails about finding God like he occasionally would beforehand. Luckily my mom already knew I was Agnostic and she was perfectly cool with it. She even thought that she could be Agnostic as well. After going through this event, there is no f-ing way am I telling my Christian conservative father that I'm bisexual.

Now I told my mom about the conversation. She's proud of me for opening up to my father, but she feels sorry that I don't believe. Excuse me lady?! Feel free to dislike an opposing opinion. But, you shouldn't feel sorry for someone for not believing what you believe.

I'm sure it took a lot of courage to do that so well done 👍

Agnosticism is completely defensible. "Does God exist?" is a rare type of question where "Yes!" and "No!" are, by any rational measure, both technically wrong. "I don't claim to know" is the only truly defensible answer. Perhaps your father has the wrong idea of what being agnostic actually entails. And of all the Gods worshiped throughout the long history of mankind, you choose to believe in one less than he does.
 
Simply put, it is preferable to the ugly truth
As I see it, you can only make the correct choice if you have the correct answer. It's certainly easy for people to prefer what is nice, but if they're wrong they're wasting their time.

In a way, the truth is preferable because it's the truth, even if you'd call it ugly.
 
DCP
What if there was a world with no science? We wouldn't really know, would we?
The science man would guess and provide calculations, but that's about it.
The fact that there has always been religion says allot that there is a God. There is also a villain making sure people don't believe this.

That has not answered my question. Science was bound to arise sometime, right when we discovered how fire, the wheel, and the technological advancements that we made. All things around you are controlled by the laws of science, not some sky-man determining my fate for no apparent reason.

So please answer my question:

Mike458
What if there was a world with no religion? Would we be better off?
 
The greatest appeal of most religions is the promise of life-after-death. The story of resurrection and eternal life is the most beautiful, useful and necessary lie ever told.
It is a double-edged sword - and it is also one of the most dangerous myths around, perpetuated by those who glorify death and killing, particularly in warfare and/or terrorism. In contrast, the 'ugly' truth - the possibility that you only get one shot at life - doesn't appear so ugly.

In a way, the truth is preferable because it's the truth, even if you'd call it ugly.
In a BIG way.
 
It is a double-edged sword - and it is also one of the most dangerous myths around, perpetuated by those who glorify death and killing, particularly in warfare and/or terrorism. In contrast, the 'ugly' truth - the possibility that you only get one shot at life - doesn't appear so ugly.


In a BIG way.

Because I'm healthy, rich and safe, it's easier for me, us, to deal with some of the uglier truths of human existence. If I, we, were threatened with death, I, we, might accept most anything that promised me a way out.

So I understand the insecurity, fear and desperation that lead people to Jesus and beyond. Likely the bulk of humanity is insecure, fearful and desperate. Old and new belief systems will continue to speak to these people. I believe I will have a glass of wine.
 
The story of resurrection and eternal life is the most beautiful, useful and necessary lie ever told.

You keep saying this. I've heard it several times from you, with little justification.

Beauty is obviously subjective, but I'd love to see your reasoning for it being useful and necessary. Especially what with there being a whole lot of people who seem to be happier not being lied to.

If I, we, were threatened with death, I, we, might accept most anything that promised me a way out.

Meh. Useful perhaps, in the sense of as a tool to stave of despair. I'm not sure if it's the most useful lie that could be told though, there's any number of others that would seem to serve the purpose just as well. Elevating one above all the others seems like it would be tough.

Necessary, not really. There are any number of other alternative beliefs that could serve as well, or you could just man up and face the truth that you got screwed in the game of life. If you've got some justification whereby the resurrection myth is necessary, then let's hear it.
 
@DCP learn how to quote people.

This. So many times, this.

DCP
Because unlike evolution, they want to be sure of something they are claiming, and they have the faith that God will reveal it to them. Also, the governments fund the illuminati, that controls everything, besides the bible...:)

You don't have a clue about what the theory of evolution says, how its conclusions were arrived at, how the science behind it works, how thoroughly it is supported by verifiable evidence, how accurately it has predicted (over and over) subsequently discovered species, or how it can be seen in action every single day.

Numerous people in both this thread, and the creation vs. evolution thread, have patiently and thoroughly explained all of these things to you. They've provided mounds of evidence that you could verify yourself, if you were even the slightest bit willing to do so.

And you've wasted all of their efforts, and all of their time, by continuing to shout scripture at them at the top of your lungs, with your fingers jammed knuckle-deep in your ears.
 
It's not necessary for anyone to believe in an afterlife. But if your life is full of pain and suffering, with little or no hope of the situation improving throughout you own short existence, i can see how believing in a wonderful afterlife is appealing.

The situation has improved massively, for first-worlders at least, but back in the middle ages and before, life for a huge majority of humans was pretty dire. The thought of an afterlife must have been pretty sweet for them. Which is why Abrahamic religions boomed.
 
If you've got some justification whereby the resurrection myth is necessary, then let's hear it.

In a nutshell:
In prehistoric times, religions arose as an organizing force in the economic, political and military affairs of humans. This is how tribes and clans were universally organized, and how civilization arose. The shaman came first, only then the king. Of course all these religions were founded on lies, first of which was eternal life. It was a lie necessary so that a group of believing, well-ordered and skilled followers could found and defend a walled city, and a civilization. Archeology, burial practices, and the emergence of written history support this view. Today, religion and its big lie is much less necessary in the first world.
 
In a nutshell:
In prehistoric times, religions arose as an organizing force in the economic, political and military affairs of humans. This is how tribes and clans were universally organized, and how civilization arose. The shaman came first, only then the king. Of course all these religions were founded on lies, first of which was eternal life. It was a lie necessary so that a group of believing, well-ordered and skilled followers could found and defend a walled city, and a civilization. Archeology, burial practices, and the emergence of written history support this view. Today, religion and its big lie is much less necessary in the first world.

I don't want to speak for Imari on this, but from my perspective you've laid out why religion was successful, and why it became so widespread, but you haven't shown why it was necessary.

Was religion the only possible way to unite early civilizations? The only possible way to consolidate influence? If not, then it wasn't necessary. It just happened to be one useful tool among several.
 
It also would have come about due to having no idea how the world worked back then. Civilisations couldn't explain why the Sun goes up and down, why the tides go in and out, why the earth quakes or volcanoes erupt. It's perfectly reasonable that they assume some unseen higher power is controlling all these. Nowadays we know better.
 
Was religion the only possible way to unite early civilizations? The only possible way to consolidate influence? If not, then it wasn't necessary. It just happened to be one useful tool among several.

There are some people who think an elite cadre of secular tech-savvy Machiavellians established civilization in the Fertile Crescent, using religion as a tool to convert and control the masses. Some say it was aliens. I say it was shaman, and the death cult religions. If belief in dragons and their sacrifice for eternal souls had been a better lie than Jesus, then we would be debating dragons today, invisible or not.
 
Aww... come on! This is entertainment for all of us! :P

Yeah, enough with those scientific VGT cars. Bring back the modern day cars PD...:)

That has not answered my question. Science was bound to arise sometime, right when we discovered how fire, the wheel, and the technological advancements that we made. All things around you are controlled by the laws of science, not some sky-man determining my fate for no apparent reason.

So please answer my question:

No one will know, only the Jewish Man in the sky, who doesn't sit there to see everything by the way. Knowledge was expected yes.
Made in Gods image, and taking the gift of knowledge of good and evil by free will, really changed the way we live today, but the fact is, people sinned and died then, and today, it is no different, which ever way you look at it.

It also would have come about due to having no idea how the world worked back then. Civilisations couldn't explain why the Sun goes up and down, why the tides go in and out, why the earth quakes or volcanoes erupt. It's perfectly reasonable that they assume some unseen higher power is controlling all these. Nowadays we know better.

Because man has become aware, doesn't change a thing. We still go on about our lives, living and then dying.
Can you give me your opinion on why volcanoes are erupting more frequently? Is is global warming or what?

It's not necessary for anyone to believe in an afterlife. But if your life is full of pain and suffering, with little or no hope of the situation improving throughout you own short existence, i can see how believing in a wonderful afterlife is appealing.

The situation has improved massively, for first-worlders at least, but back in the middle ages and before, life for a huge majority of humans was pretty dire. The thought of an afterlife must have been pretty sweet for them. Which is why Abrahamic religions boomed.

Since you not sure of the afterlife, is it wise to gamble on it by dismissing it, or perhaps pursue it without the influence of man, and perhaps just yourself?
Jesus promises life, and does so by showing love, peace, humbleness and joy.

It doesn't surprise me that others purposely kill themselves. It was, and always has been the will of the evil one.
The Shepard says " My sheep hear my voice and they come to me". If one is doing anything else, then they hear their own voice.

There are some people who think an elite cadre of secular tech-savvy Machiavellians established civilization in the Fertile Crescent, using religion as a tool to convert and control the masses. Some say it was aliens. I say it was shaman, and the death cult religions. If belief in dragons and their sacrifice for eternal souls had been a better lie than Jesus, then we would be debating dragons today, invisible or not.

I can't figure you out man. Are you a Born Again christian who believes in Christ?
Sorry, "christian", for me can mean anything in these last days.

How's the "quoting" now? Our technology isn't as good as you guys, sorry...:)
 
Mike458
What if there was a world with no religion? Would we be better off?

I'll answer (because otherwise it might get ignored).

Yes, because it would force people to actually put a little thought into morality rather than trusting to a God who gets morality wrong A LOT!

God: "Man rapes a woman, that man must marry that woman."

Thanks God, you're the best. That's some sound morality if I ever heard it.

Edit:

I wonder how an all knowing omnipresent supreme being could be wrong so much.
 

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