Do you believe in God?

[TenEightyOne]

The part that I keep getting caught on mentally is, who/what/how did the Big Bang start. Was it God, coincidence? I find it hard to believe something didn't have a part in its inception.

It's simply that something had to happen for something to happen. We don't know how "long" something didn't happen for. The idea of timeless happenings is a difficult one, I notice in this thread that the more hardcore believers struggle to accept those concepts.

 

[TiZzla]

Because it's all a bunch of hokey pokey, made up by people in our past that didn't know any better.

It's time to grow up and let your imaginary friends go.

Exactly, the people who wrote the Bible and came up with these stories knew none of the things we know today about our planet, solar system, universe etc and they didn't know about DNA and how we share an almost identical DNA makeup with chimps. They thought the stars were Gods/Angels looking down on us, they had no idea what was going on so it's easy to see how they came up with these ideas. But for people to still believe and live by these ideas thousands of years later is just insane.

Sure some of the theories scientists have can't be proven 100% especially the origin of the universe and to be honest I don't think we will ever know completely the answer to that, however at least these scientists have a logical explanation for what might have happened, rather than just "God made it". I mean really? You really believe some magical man in the sky "made" everything?

What about Dinosaurs? What about the fact that we know that life existed millions of years before Humans did, isn't that in itself enough to entirely disprove the creationist theory? And Noah's Ark? Come on, if you believe in that story you must have the brain capacity of a 5 year old.

It's actually really selfish and ignorant that Humans think that they are so special that they were "created" by God, like earth was made especially just for us. We might be at the top of the food chain now but it took millions of years for it to happen, we weren't just selected to be pet #1 out of Gods toolbox for some kind of social experiment.

God is just a fairy tale, like Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. The only difference is with God people still believe it as adults.

 

[I Am Yellow]

I find it hard to believe something didn't have a part in its inception.

I believe this should make it easier?



(for anyone who doesn't want to or can't watch the video: the sum of all energy in the universe equals zero, therefore it is flat and can come from nothing)

 

[DCP]

Oh don't worry, I don't. It's just, you know, the bible does say that...

Show me. I'll prove you wrong, but obviously you won't see it, because you refuse to see God in your heart.

Are you saying that "evolution and bang theories" are examples of "making 🤬 up"?

Then your "god" will be annoyed, since you have been deceived. There is overwhelming evidence to support "evolution and bang theories".

On the other hand, there is zero evidence to support any gods. That's what I mean by "making 🤬 up".

Example.

Way back, people realized the importance of the Sun, but couldn't explain it. Why does it "burn" "forever"? How come it appears every day? We didn't know, so we made 🤬 up, inventing a god. Later on, we figured out that the Sun is not a god, it's a star, so we stopped worshiping it.

You don't still worship the Sun do you, @DCP ?

That's what evidence does. It stops us from continuing to believe 🤬 and gets us to actual understanding.

Yep, it's called deception. Accepting something so blindly, that you would die for it. Yes, I would die for Christ.
I'm dying for someone, not something.
I think it's you that worships the sun, because you agree with other men on how it works, and when it will die.
Worshiping something mortal, like the very mortal things / idols on this world. We were all made to choose to worship something, even if we don't want to see it that way. Money, woman, cars, fame, a football team etc.

I understand more clearly where you are coming from with regards to that. However you have to see that people believe differently, they have faith (be it "blind" or "scientific" or "pure" or whatever adjective you wish to place in front of that word) in different things. You believe in Christ being the son of God. Fair enough, I respect you for that and I respect your belief in that. I believe in Christ being the Prophet of God. I trust you respect my belief in that and the reasonings behind it. But with religion there are laws, rules etc of which many people either do not understand fully, do not understand at all, or understand enough to say "religion is not for me, I do not wish to be a part of it". And people of faith in God have to respect that last one, and they most likely belong to one of the first two categories. What the latter category have to lose is who they currently are. In a time like this religion is not the same as it used to be. There are religions who are closing up to all forms of science, and this could easily be a possible reason why religion does not sit well with people. After all, if a 2000 year old book says that the world shall end say tomorrow, and it does not, what does that say about the religion? Is it wrong? Is it misinterpreted? Religion in itself is a science, understanding where it comes from (and I do not mean coming from God, I mean the way it was built together, the reasoning behind laws or rules or whatever there is). And to really know a religion inside out you need to go right the way back to the start, as far as possible. The Bible says a number of things that contradict with science. Have you ever questioned why that is? It is very possible that things have been misinterpreted over the years, since the bible has been changed over and over and over. You could find that the earliest Bible may have nothing in common with the one today. And then you have to question yourself as to why things have changed so much in religion. Take Islam for an example: just over 1400 years ago Islam was started as a way of life, a final message from God etc etc. It confirmed a number of things that were said before, as well as established different foundations. Islam did not shun science, nor did it shun the pursuit of humans to learn. In fact it encouraged it to such a degree that some of the most notable universities (I use that term a little loosely) were considered core places in Islam. Places where people would debate physics, and chemistry and astronomy. Medicine, language, economics etc. Fast forward today and it seems that Islam has lost that, instead favouring a more close minded approach to any aspect of science. I know that there are a number of scholars who are trying to change this again, and I commend them for it. In a sense, Islam may originally have taken five steps forward, but it has now taken seven steps back and you see it. The one thing Islam can still hold is that the Quraan and Hadith have not been changed in any which way over the years and that lack of change is documented. But peoples ideas about it most certainly have. And that make some more in touch with Islam (and widely putting that out as religion as a whole) and others less in touch. Maybe if religion actually took the steps forward to be where they need to be again, they may have a more accepted place in this century. I am not saying they are wrong about Adam and Eve etc, that is the core of faith. But then perhaps scientists of religion could work on say disproving the theory of evolution (and I don't mean by saying "Then why are there still monkeys?". That way, instead of us just throwing random insults at each other or judging each other, we could actually have fully educated discussions. And of course, if religion is right (being unbiased here) then something like evolution will eventually be disproved because that would be the truth. This is what we should be doing. We have common goals here. We want to know everything. Humans can work together to do this, whilst respecting each others beliefs. Heck, I do not buy into evolution at all, but I am still curious about the research they do. But I do believe in the big bang and I believe that God caused it. Why? No idea. How? I may never know. But I support those who want to find out, because it is interesting and if you have that much faith in a religion you should know that whatever happens the final outcome will end up proving the existance of God. Studying science rarely involves making things up. It usually involvs making a judgement on what we know. And as we all know, until we have a complete picture we never ever can be certain of things being true. The theory of evolution is not made up, it is well studied. Is it right? My faith tells me no, and I trust that. BUT in all the research done I feel we have learnt so much more of ourselves as a species and therefore it has been (in my humble opinion) worth it. And I also have respect for those who believe it is correct, and see them no differently to any other human, which is what it should be.

Also, I mean zero disrespect to anyone who does not believe in God and similarly to anyone who does and feels I am a Looney Tune and I apologise if I have.

Take the earliest bible manuscript, and compare it to the latest bible, you'll see that nothing has changed.
On the other hand, you've heard of burn the quran day, yet you may still insist that it hasn't changed.
I respect what all people choose to believe, no problem. If you want to believe in the God of the quran, by all means.
I also don't see anything that the bible contradicts science, based on what science observes and tests accurately.
I suggest you do more research on the islamic prophet, and you will see that he included stories and fables popular at the time of his existence. Even islams best apologists acknowledge this.

There is lots of information out there, but truth is not information. Truth is a Person. Even islam says there is ONE, who is sinless.

@ECGadget

" I trust you respect my belief in that and the reasonings behind it. But with religion there are laws, rules etc of which many people either do not understand fully, do not understand at all, or understand enough to say "religion is not for me, I do not wish to be a part of it". And people of faith in God have to respect that last one, and they most likely belong to one of the first two categories."


You're basically saying people who have faith have access to some knowledge that other people (unbelievers) don't - the "rules" and how they work. On the other hand, you say Evolution is not true because your faith "tells" you so. The double standards are off the scale.


The difference between people who believe and people who question beliefs is the following:

The believer loves answers more than questions.

It happens that questions are the things that drive us (humanity) forward.


ps: I was a baptist evangelical christian a few years ago as you would see in my first posts in this and other threads.

Where you slained by the Power of the Holy Spirit bro?

Everything.

The risks in ignoring reality are huge. If I accept one thing on faith, why stop there? If I believed that prayer could cure me, why take medicine? If this life is temporary and not worth much, why try to stick around?

You ignore science as part of your belief and as a result you are truly contributing to this world being a worse place for everyone. Anyone that accepts your beliefs is inclined to remain ignorant on health (ignore genetics and reproduction, virus and bacterial disease transmissions), the environment (age of the Earth, factors in climate, weather, etc), morality, and more.

If there is one upside from the lies of religion, it might be comfort in telling someone that they, or someone they love, can survive death. However that comes at the cost of having to tell the lie more and more. Ignore medical science and more people die. You can keep saying they all go to heaven, but that won't make it true.

You can accept Christ, even if you thank him for 1 minute everyday for giving you fresh air, and still enjoy scientific discoveries for the world to see. Not those that say there is an alien structure at a nearby star, yet there is no absolute observation and truth. That's the difference, hence why Christ said, "Don't be deceived".

Seems like guys here get the wrong ideas. They, like me, will still work, eat, sleep, send kids to school, work harder and eventually die, unless, they are waiting for a new technology that allows them to live forever without bills and pills.
My family of 4, including myself have not taken any drug, or seen any doctor since I've been healed two years ago.
Some maybe jealous, and others will refuse to believe it, because this is their nature, but anytime I feel something is wrong in my body, I just proclaim it. My sons, if they have a problem, we just proclaim it, and thank God for already healing us. This is what He has done for the world 2000 years ago. People expect Him to help them whenever they need help, yet fail to understand that they need Him daily, even when things are going perfect in their lives.
When a family member dies, then they write Him off and blame Him, yet they won't blame the thing before the big bang. Very weird.

 

[Famine]

Take the earliest bible manuscript, and compare it to the latest bible, you'll see that nothing has changed.

Which version of the latest Bible?

 

[DCP]

I believe this should make it easier?



(for anyone who doesn't want to or can't watch the video: the sum of all energy in the universe equals zero, therefore it is flat and can come from nothing)

So based on these following questions, can we now safely say that it's flat, and came from nothing right?
How is that observable and tested?

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

2. Where did matter come from?

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

If you still say, "I don't know", and you are going to find out, then I respect your answer.

 

[Imari]

Take the earliest bible manuscript, and compare it to the latest bible, you'll see that nothing has changed.

Apart from the language. And all the words.

 

[Shidapu]

There is no god never was...human created god in their mind...

George carlin has said it better...

 

[TenEightyOne]

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

It was always there, just not necessarily measurable in a parameter that we recognise. Some things can be in two places at once, fundamentally that means that something can be not where it is. Just saying that "there's space and distance now so there must have been then" is to ignore that space provably doesn't have to be what we think.

2. Where did matter come from?

There was "always" material (or an energetic potential) there, if we introduce time. If you use table salt then you tacitly agree that some substances can be generated from others. See Q5 for more.

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

The first comes from the attractive bond between molecules. This "magnetic" bond increases as groups of molecules become more massive. That's why the moon always falls towards the Earth (if you use time). The effect of gravity is measurable and constant and is something that has enabled us to study the far universe in much more detail (gravity bends light).

Inertia is a function of mass too, once again requiring time. Newton's First Law gives the best explanation.

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

Scientists, if you're asking about the written laws. Remember that this isn't man saying "a falling object will accelerate at x m/s2" and then making it so, Science lists verifiable and non-falsifiable observations of properties. So the glib answer is "Newton", Hawkins and so on.

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

It didn't. The universe that we know about is expanding from a single, presumably explosive, point, slowly cooling as it goes. That's recognisable physical behaviour to most people. Remember that molecules you can't see aren't perfectly organised at all. Windy days are a good example. Our sun is another. The universe can be a tumultuous, crashing place.

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

Tough one. The best hypothesis, in my opinion, is the Inflationary Model. It satisfies several requirements in that some of the proposed after-effects are testable. Some of this answer also goes to Q2. Harvard.

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

I wouldn't say "dead" as something dead has to have been alive first. So "inanimate" might be a better word.

The answer overall lies in a parallel with monkeys and typwriters. If a monkey hits two random keys then eventually it will hit "T" followed by "O". If it continues to hit keys than, after 100 billion attempts, we can be reasonably sure that it would, at some point, have written "To be or not to be, that is the question". Or a Justin Bieber hit.

You have to get your head around the fact that trillions and trillions of random events have happened in the massive sloshy chemical soup that is the universe. Some of those have had lasting effects and some haven't. Did the life that we see on Earth originate here? Maybe not, but we've got a pretty good idea of the random processes that led to it.

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

See Q6. Some life still can't reproduce itself, interestingly enough.

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

Are any cells capable of sexual reproduction? I don't think so. Cells reproduce asexually. If they didn't you'd have no skin or hair by now. When did the first sexual organisms reproduce? Around the time of the first established multi-cellular organisms. See the link in Q6.

If you still say, "I don't know", and you are going to find out, then I respect your answer.

We do know the answer (or we have good testable hypotheses) for all those. Science doesn't say something is, Science performs tests and measurements against "what ifs" to produce re-testable observations. Even the greats have their work pulled apart for examination (probably more so), the whole point of Science is that it doesn't have to be a final answer written by one person.

 

[Exorcet]

You can accept Christ, even if you thank him for 1 minute everyday for giving you fresh air, and still enjoy scientific discoveries for the world to see. Not those that say there is an alien structure at a nearby star, yet there is no absolute observation and truth. That's the difference, hence why Christ said, "Don't be deceived".

No, I can't accept your version of Christ, because like I said he apparently wants you to ignore reality and doesn't care how it negatively effects everyone around. You just did it again. You make up something, attribute it to "them" and pretend that everyone worships and is deceived by "them" because they don't agree with your Christ.

Now I could whisper thank yous and such to more reasonable and honest Christ, but a truly honest Christ can't promise anything, but he can't exist as anything more than someone who died a long time ago. There is no observation or truth in religion, so I won't be deceived by it.

Seems like guys here get the wrong ideas. They, like me, will still work, eat, sleep, send kids to school, work harder and eventually die, unless, they are waiting for a new technology that allows them to live forever without bills and pills.

Where does this come from? The people who are so concerned with living forever are the people who put aside reality to believe that it's a fact that they will live forever. I can only hope they don't believe it enough to do something stupid. I'm relatively safe since I operate under the assumption that I'll die in a few decades at most and then it will be over. This keeps me from throwing away my life. I also won't attach myself to something just because it sounds nice. This means that if there is a chance for something like immortality, I'll have better chances at reaching it than someone who thinks the Bible is literally true.

My family of 4, including myself have not taken any drug, or seen any doctor since I've been healed two years ago.
Some maybe jealous, and others will refuse to believe it, because this is their nature, but anytime I feel something is wrong in my body, I just proclaim it. My sons, if they have a problem, we just proclaim it, and thank God for already healing us. This is what He has done for the world 2000 years ago. People expect Him to help them whenever they need help, yet fail to understand that they need Him daily, even when things are going perfect in their lives.
When a family member dies, then they write Him off and blame Him, yet they won't blame the thing before the big bang. Very weird.

Again, you ignore the world to protect what you want to believe. The only people that would blame God would be people who believe in him. People that don't won't blame God for anything, he doesn't exist. Nor will they blame the Big Bang, that doesn't make sense.

By not visiting doctors, you're putting your family at risk. Please don't let them come to harm by being tricked into believing something nonsensical.

 

[Denur]

I can only hope they don't believe it enough to do something stupid.

Too late:

but anytime I feel something is wrong in my body, I just proclaim it. My sons, if they have a problem, we just proclaim it, and thank God for already healing us.

 

[Imari]

My family of 4, including myself have not taken any drug, or seen any doctor since I've been healed two years ago.
Some maybe jealous, and others will refuse to believe it, because this is their nature, but anytime I feel something is wrong in my body, I just proclaim it. My sons, if they have a problem, we just proclaim it, and thank God for already healing us.

Thank you for again demonstrating that you don't understand statistics.

I haven't taken drugs or seen a doctor for several years either. But I didn't ask God for it, I just look after myself. What does that make me?

Is God secretly looking after me anyway?
Am I Superman?
Or did I just get lucky for a few years that I didn't catch anything more serious than a cold? And that I happen to think that tissues work better than the bollocks phenylephrine stuff that they sell in most places these days?

 

[JKgo]

...At the rate he's going, I fear even God can't save DCP from being banned.

I didn't want to say anything but... some stuff he posted here sounds suspiciously similar to what most governments might call "illegal". I may be taking it out of context, but "children haven't seen a doctor nor taken a drug even when ill"?

Holy cow.

I may respect your right to believe whatever religion but that's just... wow.

 

[Carbonox]

@DCP, if you were on a lifelong medication (for instance if your thyroid gland, like mine, wasn't working properly) would you just refuse it and leave your fate up to god instead?

 

[DCP]

No, I can't accept your version of Christ, because like I said he apparently wants you to ignore reality and doesn't care how it negatively effects everyone around. You just did it again. You make up something, attribute it to "them" and pretend that everyone worships and is deceived by "them" because they don't agree with your Christ.

Now I could whisper thank yous and such to more reasonable and honest Christ, but a truly honest Christ can't promise anything, but he can't exist as anything more than someone who died a long time ago. There is no observation or truth in religion, so I won't be deceived by it.


Where does this come from? The people who are so concerned with living forever are the people who put aside reality to believe that it's a fact that they will live forever. I can only hope they don't believe it enough to do something stupid. I'm relatively safe since I operate under the assumption that I'll die in a few decades at most and then it will be over. This keeps me from throwing away my life. I also won't attach myself to something just because it sounds nice. This means that if there is a chance for something like immortality, I'll have better chances at reaching it than someone who thinks the Bible is literally true.


Again, you ignore the world to protect what you want to believe. The only people that would blame God would be people who believe in him. People that don't won't blame God for anything, he doesn't exist. Nor will they blame the Big Bang, that doesn't make sense.

By not visiting doctors, you're putting your family at risk. Please don't let them come to harm by being tricked into believing something nonsensical.

I ask you, what is this reality that I am ignoring, other than working, eating, sleeping, paying bills, and inevitably dying?
Isn't this reality of our lives? Obviously we have fun in between with family and friends. What more reality is there?
Also, it's not my version of Christ. It's Christ. His offer, a free gift of salvation. Your response "No thank you, because you have better chances waiting for man to give you immortality, as it's better for you. At least you reject Christ outright, and don't beat around the bush. I respect that, as much as it pains me.

I've never ignored the world. I have everything I've always wanted. How does ignoring the world give that to me?
By visiting the doctors, I'm encouraging sickness and problems, even when there is nothing wrong. Like I say, before those two years, we wouldn't think of anything else but going to the doctor, even for the slightest headache. That was my lesson on faith. I had none.

@Carbonox

Bud I was on warfarin for nearly 6 months, and I stopped. I've not been to a doctor since for a check up. It's not that I don't care. It's that I am putting my Lord to the test. I haven't looked back, and my family has benefited, by following that faith.
Each person must be able to judge their own heart, and ask themselves whether it is worthy of receiving Gods promises. The only way to judge is by Gods standards. Anyone can judge their own heart and say they are innocent and kind and clean hearted by their own standards.

 

[ryzno]

Like I say, before those two years, we wouldn't think of anything else but going to the doctor, even for the slightest headache.

See that's the problem with society in the first place. Running to the doctor for the slightest problem.You don't always need medicine or a God to get better. Some good old fashion rest can do wonders.

Anyways I found this on FB this morning. Thought I'd leave this here.

 

[dylansan]

@DCP Nice to see you're still avoiding the tough questions.

@DCP Do you remember when I asked you if you could explain how scientists managed to predict the discovery of a fossil dated between whales and 47 million year old creatures, which had features in between both? AKA the picture halfway down this page.

I remember you said you couldn't explain it, and that was the end of it. The fact that you have probably never thought anything of it since then shows you aren't interested in the truth. If you don't even attempt to explain the things which contradict your convictions, how can you expect others to be open minded when these contradictions are what holds us back?

The way I see it, there are only a couple of explanations for how scientists are able to consistently make correct predictions based on their theories on a regular basis.

A. God is on the side of the scientists, and helps them make discoveries (despite the fact that many of these discoveries contradict the bible)

B. Scientists are psychic, and use that ability to predict future discoveries so they can seem smarter than they really are.

C. Scientists actually know what they're doing, and the theories they create are actually useful descriptions of how the world really works.

Which is it?

Come on, it's multiple choice. Just guess if you have to.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think it's you that worships the sun, because you agree with other men on how it works, and when it will die.

Overlooking how many times you've been told this assumption is flat-out wrong, let's work on your thought process. I agree with other, far more knowledgeable people on how a lot of things work, and how they too will die. We know how long a cow tends to live. Or a tree. We know the half-life of radioactive isotopes.

So, do I worship all three of those?

Worshiping something mortal, like the very mortal things / idols on this world. We were all made to choose to worship something, even if we don't want to see it that way. Money, woman, cars, fame, a football team etc.

Again, you seem to think people have to worship something. Those that are able to think critically, don't.

Nevermind that you worship a mortal that died 2000 years ago.

Take the earliest bible manuscript, and compare it to the latest bible, you'll see that nothing has changed.

This is patently untrue, and you know this.

I respect what all people choose to believe, no problem.

This is patently untrue, and you know this.

I also don't see anything that the bible contradicts science, based on what science observes and tests accurately.

This is patently untrue, and you know this.

I suggest you do more research

You suggesting anybody do more research, when you seem incapable of doing even a basic amount yourself, is rich.

There is lots of information out there, but truth is not information. Truth is a Person. Even islam says there is ONE, who is sinless.

If "Truth is a Person", and he died two millennia ago, I suppose everything you say is a lie.

yet there is no absolute observation and truth.

...about (the Christian) God? You're right.

My family of 4, including myself have not taken any drug, or seen any doctor since I've been healed two years ago.
Some maybe jealous, and others will refuse to believe it, because this is their nature, but anytime I feel something is wrong in my body, I just proclaim it. My sons, if they have a problem, we just proclaim it, and thank God for already healing us.

Stop endangering your children. A parent should know better.

You'll surely be able to explain why I've not had to visit a doctor beyond a basic check-up in almost 10 years, then.

Also, it's not my version of Christ. It's Christ.

Except there's numerous versions of the Bible. So yes, your version.

By visiting the doctors, I'm encouraging sickness and problems, even when there is nothing wrong.

The only way you're encouraging sickness and problems is to insist on ignoring doctors. While a simple cold can be fought off by the average person's immune system over the course of a few days, you are playing the odds with your children's lives if you insist on never taking them to the doctors when they're legitimately ill. There is a reason life expectancy has extended alongside scientific progress.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The only way you're encouraging sickness and problems is to insist on ignoring doctors. While a simple cold can be fought off by the average person's immune system over the course of a few days, you are playing the odds with your children's lives if you insist on never taking them to the doctors when they're legitimately ill. There is a reason life expectancy has extended alongside scientific progress.

To go with this, there was recently (3 weeks ago today) a YouTube vloging family that lost their 13 year old son to an unknown medical issue. This kid appeared healthy, was a baseball player, and suddenly he's gone. They thought it might be a heart issue that ran in the family, but they have not announced if that was the case. His sisters have since been checked and cleared, but the point is that even people that appear clearly healthy can still have life threatening problems.

What DCP is doing here, we've seen recently in the US with families that opt to "pray away the sickness" and their kids die. They then face criminal charges for their actions.

 

[Touring Mars]

What DCP is doing here, we've seen recently in the US with families that opt to "pray away the sickness" and their kids die. They then face criminal charges for their actions.

Yes, this simply cannot be excused. By all means rely on the power of prayer alone to cure yourself, but if you have a legal responsibility to care for a child, it would be criminally negligent to do so on their behalf.

 

[Danoff]

Show me. I'll prove you wrong,

I'm sure that you have some weird way to twist the words of the bible into whatever you'd like them to say. Most Christians do. But I like seeing it, so have at it with the quotes below. Go forth and re-interpret words that have plain meaning.

Start with commandment number 1 of 10 (depending on the bible version, in some cases there's a non-commandment listed as commandment 1 first).

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.......Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. " John 3:18-36

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Imari]

It's that I am putting my Lord to the test.

I wouldn't have thought you'd be allowed to test God, from what you've said here earlier. That sounds suspiciously like you're not sure whether he would pass said test or not. Because that's what a test is, what you do to figure out the result when you're not sure.

If you know he's going to save you, then all you're doing is saving yourself the doctor's bill. But I suspect that in your heart of hearts, you think that God is going to save you but you're not totally sure...

Still, it's a bit of a shame that you're forcing your children into this with you. I hope nothing bad happens to them on account of your negligence.

 

[DQuaN]

@DCP

If you broke your arm, would you go to a doctor?

 

[W3H5]

I seriously don't know why you sane people bother to entertain these crackpots with a notion of religion throughout this thread. Is it for the giggles?

I haven't read through this thread for months and it's still the same delusional individuals as before who cannot accept reality and cling on for dear life to their beliefs based in superstition rather than fact.

No wonder the world is a messed up place when dated scriptures, non applicable to modern times, leads to parents neglecting to care for their children favouring faith over proven medical science and people who would have their own family executed for apostasy.

I feel personally disgusted by anyone who would cause physical harm to a person because a historical figure said that it was part of being faithful.

It's sickening to me that so many western states still use Christianity or Catholicism as a base for the ethical guidelines when both faiths regularly persecute normal people because of their sexual orientation or other personality 'flaw' that isn't in keeping with their holy traditions.

It sickens me even further to see that masses, not a minority, of Muslim people living in 'civilised' western countries openly disregard state law claiming to only be responsible under sharia law. There are people of these faiths so blindly brainwashed that they believe anyone not of faith is not their equal and will go to hell (again with the fantasy) or they feel the need to carry our acts of violence against people who simply don't want to believe their fantasy story book. Europe spent years fighting a group that persecuted people of different beliefs (and race, but that's irrelevant here), that group was and still is considered evil and their deeds atrocious. A group championing similar ideals is left to go about openly declaring war upon the rest if us and it's hatred of those who don't agree with it yet nothing is done by state or individual with them being restricters of freedom or PC. If restricting somebodies freedom from beating a woman for showing some flesh or wearing trousers is not allowed then we are living in seriously desperate times.

I hate to be the one to say it, but even that certain despicable group of Europeans our grandfathers fought so hard to stop didn't treat women with the same disrespect that religious people seem to think is fine.

My intention was not to offend anybody with the offering of my $.2 and I will happily respond to any comments aimed at what I've just said.

Amen, Allah Akbar, Force be with you and all that nonsense.

 

[BobK]

Brilliantly stated, @Shem. err...@W3HS

 

[FoRiZon]

Love how some people really think we had either worship god or do something awful like free sex or drugs.

Im sure many religious people are better than this. But this *censored* is the reason i wont too aligned with such things.

 

[Imari]

Love how some people really think we had either worship god or do something awful like free sex or drugs.

Why are free sex and drugs awful? I like both of these things.

 

[DCP]

Yes, this simply cannot be excused. By all means rely on the power of prayer alone to cure yourself, but if you have a legal responsibility to care for a child, it would be criminally negligent to do so on their behalf.

Please understand that our family thanks the Lord each day for the things he has given us, even though we don't deserve it. We see millions of people suffer, starve and are lonely, and we ask why, yet we understand why. Bad parenting, ungodliness etc. Off course if my sons become sick, I would take them to hospital, but the point is being missed. If we are proclaiming our healing everyday, there is no need to become sick, and that has been proven to us, for now, over two years. We are just going to continue trusting our Savior, as He keeps his promise to us. We can't talk for anyone else, because we don't know their hearts and their true desires.

I'm sure that you have some weird way to twist the words of the bible into whatever you'd like them to say. Most Christians do. But I like seeing it, so have at it with the quotes below. Go forth and re-interpret words that have plain meaning.

Start with commandment number 1 of 10 (depending on the bible version, in some cases there's a non-commandment listed as commandment 1 first).

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. (John 3:16-18)

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.......Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. " John 3:18-36

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Great quote bro. Do you know why the Son was given to the world? If you can understand and accept this, then you will immediately understand why you need to believe in Him. It's not for His sake, but for each individuals sake.
As you can see, Who believes in Him "MAY' not perish. But in order that the world "MIGHT" be saved through him.

I wouldn't have thought you'd be allowed to test God, from what you've said here earlier. That sounds suspiciously like you're not sure whether he would pass said test or not. Because that's what a test is, what you do to figure out the result when you're not sure.

If you know he's going to save you, then all you're doing is saving yourself the doctor's bill. But I suspect that in your heart of hearts, you think that God is going to save you but you're not totally sure...

Still, it's a bit of a shame that you're forcing your children into this with you. I hope nothing bad happens to them on account of your negligence.

God says it Himself, to test Him. How else can He be God if not tested? Perhaps you being mistaken by not tempting the Lord. Don't be mistaken, my children are not forced. What we do, is with utmost faith. It can't be explained.

@DCP

If you broke your arm, would you go to a doctor?

Yes I would. It's a convenience, because doctors have been blessed to understand Gods natural herbs through knowledge. Everything comes from this earth. However, like I say, utmost faith, that I wouldn't need to have my arm broken for whatever reason.

The Matrix copies the bible well.

"What are you saying, I can dodge bullets?"
"What i'm saying Neo, is that when you are ready, you won't have to"

It's funny, people will tell you that bullets didn't touch them when shot, but because you are not allowed to believe it happened, you write it off. I'd recommend Todd White's testimony. An atheist who had a hectic life before encountering God.

 

[Jet Badger]

We see millions of people suffer, starve and are lonely, and we ask why, yet we understand why. Bad parenting, ungodliness etc.

More like "let's find a 'christian' reason to not be christian to suffering people. Yeah - they deserve it. Praised be the lord".

 

[DCP]

More like "let's find a 'christian' reason to not be christian to suffering people. Yeah - they deserve it. Praised be the lord".

Suit yourself. Its normal to mock and execute us. We were told so.